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Bifauxnen posted:drat, dude. I hate Alice and all too, but you're still creeping me out. All this Alice hate is even weirder to me because I felt nothing like it on my reread. It's way more intense than the hate for Dio, too, which weirded me out until I realized why (gamers are terrible).
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Feb 11, 2014 16:07
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flatluigi posted:All this Alice hate is even weirder to me because I felt nothing like it on my reread. It's way more intense than the hate for Dio, too, which weirded me out until I realized why (gamers are terrible). Well, hold on. Alice is kind of insufferable, mostly because Sigma just takes it. I mean if you Ally in the first round, she betrays you - almost killing you - and then calls you an idiot for it. Even when she finds out that death is the price of losing your BP, it's not like she ever... ...well, does anything. No apology, no "I didn't realize," nothing. Then in a previous path, she outright kills him and if you Betray that, it's a stupid "Thought you were gonna sneak in an easy couple points on me huh?" kinda thing. She doesn't seem to appreciate the gravity of killing Sigma, or doesn't particularly care. I don't want to go too far since I kinda lost where we are in the story versus what I played, but that alone put me in the anti-Alice camp. I softened to her later, especially after Dio, but I don't think it's too crazy to dislike her in the early game. edit: And yeah, Dio's worse as we've seen, just not in the beginning. slowbeef fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 16:15
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I'll give you that Alice doesn't think things through at all, but people just tossing away her apology (stress about the bombs) completely out of hand and continuing to yell about 'loving her up for what she did' because she got upset at us dropping her to 1 bp is a crazy overreaction. Especially since nothing she's done is anywhere near Dio's level of awful - actively murdering Quark by smashing the Axelavir/murdering Sigma by forcing him to sacrifice himself.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:27
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I'm not anti-Alice, though I can't say I'm a huge fan, either... But even I can see why Alice gets larger reactions. Dio's a predictable rear end in a top hat, whose assholery largely has not effected the player or our proxy in a way we didn't see coming. You almost suspect that Dio might be a better person than he appears, because...Because it's so transparent. (I think we're all done with that illusion, right? The bit with the threatening a child and murdering us means no one thinks he's a bluff, right?) Alice is an unpredictable hypocrite, who at every turn finds some new way to foil our, the player's, intentions, and then blame our proxy for it. You, the player, just...can't....win with her, and I can't think of anything that annoys a player more than finding out that, whatever you do, you won't get what you want. At this point, Dio's evil, whereas Alice is...Mostly, just annoying. And people will tend to dislike the annoying character more than the evil one. This is the law of Scrappy Doo.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:29
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flatluigi posted:I'll give you that Alice doesn't think things through at all, but people just tossing away her apology (stress about the bombs) completely out of hand and continuing to yell about 'loving her up for what she did' because she got upset at us dropping her to 1 bp is a crazy overreaction. You're forgetting one very important thing though: this is a recent event. I don't know about others but I had kind of forgotten about what Dio did because it was some time ago, while this just happened. Besides, can't I hate both because both are jackasses? 
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Feb 11, 2014 16:31
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I remember when Scrappy Doo killed Flim-Flam, and everyone just sort of shrugged their shoulders and moved on to the next of the 13 Ghosts.
Green Intern fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 16:38
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All the recent developments just make me like Alice as a character more. She annoys me a bit, and actually killing Sigma via Betraying was surprising, but her arrogance and ridiculous back story won me over. Secret agent (not an) Egyptian mummy on a mission to save the world and avenge her father with a talent for math and making terrible fashion choices? Why not.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:43
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I think a big difference is that Dio owns up to being an rear end in a top hat, while Alice tries to blame other people. Dio's attitude is much more openly "gently caress you, got mine," while Alice says things like "It's your fault for picking ally." It's a lot easier to like a character who's openly a dick than a character who tries to act like they aren't one. That said, a lot of people in this thread are getting really overly mad at a video game character and it's kind of funny.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:48
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DarkHamsterlord posted:That said, a lot of people in this thread are getting really overly mad at a video game character and it's kind of funny. Yeah, it is, and yet it's also getting kind of annoying.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:50
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I think a lot of it might come from the same source as nostalgia - just hatred-colored-glasses instead of rose. I'm willing to bet that most of the people who think Alice is absolutely vile are the same people who took this path first on their own run-through (and probably allied with her as their first major decision). Similar stories for people who adore Luna to no end and those who have feelings that would line up with the third major path we haven't explored too deeply yet; basically a case of people latching on to the first attachment, positive or negative, that the game gave them
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Feb 11, 2014 16:58
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Sentient Data posted:I think a lot of it might come from the same source as nostalgia - just hatred-colored-glasses instead of rose. I'm willing to bet that most of the people who think Alice is absolutely vile are the same people who took this path first on their own run-through (and probably allied with her as their first major decision). Similar stories for people who adore Luna to no end and those who have feelings that would line up with the third major path we haven't explored too deeply yet; basically a case of people latching on to the first attachment, positive or negative, that the game gave them That's actually a neat theory. I never got the "Luna is so great!" sentiment, but she was the last person I ended up going with at the... er, beginning.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:03
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I'm just hoping there's a good explanation for all this. But also that we kill them all and win.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:04
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Actually, I didn't like Phi either when I started. Or Tenmyouji. I hate Quark. ... You know, maybe I just hate this whole game. Geop, get in here and do the needful.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:06
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Fallord posted:The latter. In that version of the scene, Phi and Alice have a brief bonding moment over Sigma's stupidity but that's it. It's much shorter than the rock-paper-scissors thing we got here. On that topic, is there a list of scenes that don't occur after you visit other pathways? I've never actually seen the scene where Alice slaps Sigma. Edit: Until I noticed Fedule posted it last night, derp.  Well, if there are other scenes, I'd appreciate a PM about them. Otherwise, I'll just wait when they come up in the LP run.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:15
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Aumanor posted:Alice: a study in hypocrisy. You know what? The sob story does even less for me now. Onwards with loving the stripper up! I wanna buy you an Alice avatar so drat bad
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Feb 11, 2014 17:31
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Sentient Data posted:I think a lot of it might come from the same source as nostalgia - just hatred-colored-glasses instead of rose. I'm willing to bet that most of the people who think Alice is absolutely vile are the same people who took this path first on their own run-through (and probably allied with her as their first major decision). Similar stories for people who adore Luna to no end and those who have feelings that would line up with the third major path we haven't explored too deeply yet; basically a case of people latching on to the first attachment, positive or negative, that the game gave them I've never played this game before and I think Alice is a total oval office, and on the rear end in a top hat tier list she's second only to Dio, mainly because his assholery is almost cartoonish (I'm fully expecting Clover to be third) Her incompetence and her completely unapologetic hypocrisy really rub me the wrong way. Especially since she happily murders Sigma without a second thought. And also because she, a supposedly competent superspy, causes Clover to murder Luna. I mean, I think its pretty obvious what happened back there now. She's basically more of a burden to the group as a whole than a boon. GilliamYaeger fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 17:34
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GilliamYaeger posted:I've never played this game before and I think Alice is a total oval office Good job dude you took it even further than everyone else! 
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Feb 11, 2014 17:47
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slowbeef posted:That's actually a neat theory. I never got the "Luna is so great!" sentiment, but she was the last person I ended up going with at the... er, beginning. Her routes were among the last ones I did too, but after being screwed by most of the cast in various ways, Luna was pretty much an oasis.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:05
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I'll be blunt - I don't give a drat about Alice either way or that people hate her, but the way it's being expressed is making me extremely uncomfortable. As for the game itself - I honestly am not a fan of pseudoscience being treated as fact (and probably one of the few here who did not like Ever17's ending), but I do like the way it plays with expectations.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:06
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It's fascinating to see the alternative dialogue from an initial betrayal of Alice. Thanks, Fedule and Admiral H. Curtiss. I've never got to see that before, since my initial path was allying with Alice. I didn't even consider that that type of dialogue could have existed. It honestly makes me like Alice a lot more to see her going for the "We all get out of here the quickest if everyone chooses "ally". Any idiot can see that!" angle, and it's not as if I hated her in the first place (...at least not after her apology). I was looking forward to seeing the thread's reaction to the supposedly incapacitated Alice killing you out of nowhere route we saw earlier, because that's such a whopper of a betrayal. The hatred directed at her because of that has got far more over the top than expected, though. This LP is interesting, because the order you experience the game in here makes such a difference. Some things that felt like shocking late game moments to me in the pattern I read the game have been swept out of the way quickly here.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:10
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Finally caught back up. I will agree that I'm extremely unhappy with the game removing agency from the player, although if everyone's going all morphogenetic on us then it's going to be kind of ridiculously hard to predict much of anything and we're just going to have ride our choices to Sigma's repeated horrible demise  I will also say that Alice is cold as anything, except when she's not, which is when the game feels like it. It's really hard to pin down characters when the same one calls us idiots for allying and kills us, except that she gets mad at us because we broke the trust that could save everyone, except that she doesn't. When it's just Sigma - the player's agent - that changes around with our choices, we get a controlled way of experiencing the events and understanding the people that make up the game. When everyone is drastically different depending on the choices we make...the best we can do is try to track what changes every time we make a choice and move towards the most ideal set of circumstances over multiple tries - which interestingly seems to be that last plot lock we just hit, at least so far. This all of course leads to the most important question: Who are we? Who's playing Sigma this game? We're probably (probably  ) not June...but who are we?June had the ability and need to do something like this - and yes a lot of people will die repeatedly but that was fine as long as she was able to track what happened and move towards the right goal - and we as the player, in whoever we represent, seem to have to do the same thing. Sigma is a sacrificial lamb going to die over and over at this rate before we figure out the important occurrences.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:17
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The game's dialogue changing based on the order you play the paths in is AMAZING. It's really funny how much work it would take to find all the alternate dialogue. You'd probably need a bunch of people working on it, all extensively documenting as they went along. Alice is a terrible jerk, but can the mods please probate the next couple people to call her a "bitch" or a "oval office"? because seriously, that's outright ugly misogyny. Her being a jerk has nothing to do with her gender. She's not the only jerk, too, and I expect at least one other person in the group is going to draw our ire (haven't played the game, but it seems very likely).
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Feb 11, 2014 18:41
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It's kind of ridiculous how much more intense the thread's hatred is of Alice than it ever was when Dio was the rear end in a top hat of the moment.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:49
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Dio's voiced by ~Liam O'Brian~ though  I can't bring myself to hate him.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:51
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Yeah, Alice is a fictional scantily-clad anime woman who deceives people (which isn't a rare thing in this game). She didn't kick your dog or slash your tires  Ease up a little on the colorful language/slandering, goodness!
Geop fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 18:54
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Cake Attack posted:Dio's voiced by ~Liam O'Brian~ though Liam O'Brian is pretty great.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:55
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vaguely posted:It's kind of ridiculous how much more intense the thread's hatred is of Alice than it ever was when Dio was the rear end in a top hat of the moment. Having beaten the game, I don't really like either of them, but Dio is always incredibly upfront about who he is. He's an rear end in a top hat who is going to be an rear end in a top hat and he's going to do it to your face because gently caress you, he's an rear end in a top hat. Alice is mostly the same way, but she's a lot more passive-aggressive about it and it's a lot more irritating to watch her antics because if you ally you're an idiot, if you betray you're an rear end in a top hat even when you would die by not betraying because gently caress you Alice always "wins". I certainly wouldn't go as far as some posters have, but she's definitely my least favorite character in the game. Cake Attack posted:Dio's voiced by ~Liam O'Brian~ though Although let's be honest, this is the real reason.
Artix fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 18:59
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Cake Attack posted:Dio's voiced by ~Liam O'Brian~ though
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Feb 11, 2014 19:03
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Well, I mean, he lied about who pressed Betray way way back when it was him and Quark going up against Tenmyouji. Or did he? Can you trust someone who keeps snacks and/or missiles in his hat?
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Feb 11, 2014 19:10
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Even though I was legitimately mad at her while playing the game myself, I don't actually hate Alice (and in truth, having beaten the game, I kind of pity her more than anything). So seeing this level of venom directed at her is a bit disturbing.  ON A LIGHTER NOTE! I picked up Dangan Ronpa for the Vita today, and looking over the trophy list, I saw two trophies that made me smile that I think people here might appreciate: quote:Silver - Nine Coins, Nine Purses, Nine Bears - Collected 999 Monocoins.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:12
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Wait, is DR Vita out? Jeez, and I thought I was going to be able to avoid picking up a Vita anytime soon...
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Feb 11, 2014 19:17
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It just came out today, yeah.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:20
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How aggravating. I feel like I should buy it to support the devs and localizers, but... the Vita.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:28
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It might be worth getting anyway, as the DR thread pointed out it's probably going to be one of those games that are really hard to find in the future. Worst case scenario you don't ever get a Vita and you sell your copy on Ebay, possibly for more than you bought it for.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:31
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W.T. Fits posted:Even though I was legitimately mad at her while playing the game myself, I don't actually hate Alice (and in truth, having beaten the game, I kind of pity her more than anything). So seeing this level of venom directed at her is a bit disturbing. I'm surprised that the VLR achievement isn't for betraying Kirigiri in Chapter 5. Edit: Derp, I'm dumb and thought this was the Dangan Ronpa thread. Lemme tag that. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 20:11
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Penakoto posted:It might be worth getting anyway, as the DR thread pointed out it's probably going to be one of those games that are really hard to find in the future. It's on PSN, will probably be accessible well into the future.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:34
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I'm surprised that the VLR achievement isn't for betraying Kirigiri in Chapter 5. Nah man, the lame pun is too good to ignore. It's what Zero Escape would do.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:42
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We haven't seen the whole game so I won't discuss this too much, but I feel like VLR's sci-fi elements were handled significantly better than 999's were. 999 didn't so much set them up as 'talk about it randomly and hope the the player is okay with the entire ending being based off of it'. In comparison, VLR does a much better job setting it up, defines it better, utilizes it better, and plays your expectations better. I think some people here are being judgemental over the game's use of the sci-fi stuff based on what they saw happen in 999, when a person actually playing the game wouldn't have to wait between updates to see what was going on.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:41
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vaguely posted:It's kind of ridiculous how much more intense the thread's hatred is of Alice than it ever was when Dio was the rear end in a top hat of the moment. What's a little creepy is that about 80% of the thread have revealed they played the game, so this means they're getting RE-angry again at a fictional character when watching someone else play. The first time was not enough, gotta tell all 30 people here how much I hate her this time around! That's...something. I'm not sure what.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:40
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Yeah, we get it, everything's creepy and you're better than everyone else.derra posted:It's on PSN, will probably be accessible well into the future. There are some games that are available digitally that are still valuable in physical format, but yeah you have a point, it being on the PSN means it's less likely. Penakoto fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 04:48
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