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NikkolasKing posted:i was gonna ask about this after finishing 0083 but hell, I'm only three episodes away and the topic of CCA has come up. (in a way) Those people are only judging Char's actions on the surface, taking his presentation of himself to be who he really is, not taking his MSG/CCA revelations of his true character into account.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:33
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I definitely get the whole "CCA Char's personality matches MSG Char better" argument. I think you can either read Char in CCA as either backsliding from his character development in Zeta or conclude that Char's personality in Zeta was just a front the whole time. Personally, I like both interpretations. And IMO, if you're planning on watching Zeta anyway, neither interpretation should be enough to dissuade you from it.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:35
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I think on some level Char tried to be good. He didn't succeed though.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:49
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There's some truth to CCA Char matching MSG Char a lot more because Zeta was effectively Char trying to be someone different. Quattro was Char's attempt at being a good person and trying to change things from within for the better instead of saying gently caress everyone and being a bitter, spiteful, vengeance-fueled rear end in a top hat. It doesn't work out the way he wants, so he goes back to saying gently caress everyone and being a bitter, spiteful, vengeance-fueled rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 12, 2014 06:06
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There's that, and there's also the fact that he was running away from Axis to avoid responsibility.
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Feb 12, 2014 06:59
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Well. 0083 did give us some rad Musais and this launching sequence. Cima's home colony was just depopulated the old-fashioned way. Being the scapegoat for war crimes meant the refugee fleet to Axis refused to take them along (But took the old CO that fooled them in the gassings, another bitter pill to swallow) and because their home colony's population was scattered without any real records, it was virtually impossible to track everyone's families down.
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Feb 12, 2014 07:01
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Basically the main thing to remember while you watch Zeta with regards to Char is that "Char Aznable" isn't his real identity.
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Feb 12, 2014 07:01
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Man. That was...really bad. Like, I didn't expect anything like this. I'm used to "going the opposite way" of what I hear. I went into 0083 thinking it couldn't possibly be that bad and that I'd gain some enjoyment from it at least. However, just like with Final Fantasy XIII, my hopes were misplaced and I should have trusted all those naysayers. I watched Stardust Memory because I heard it was a lead-in to Zeta. I know some people said no it wasn't but I just figured they wee haters. But if this thing DOES in fact lead into Zeta, I have no idea how. By the end of the anime, I didn't even know what the gently caress was going on. Granted, I kinda tuned out for the last five episodes and just fiddled around on Google and other things while listening to the episodes here and there but I just don't get it. The Federation were working with Cima the whole time? Why? Why the gently caress did they sacrifice a 1/3-2/3rd of their fleet? What was the loving point of the whole thing? Kou and Nina are the worst romance ever. I now long for the logic and depth of Shiro and Aina's two-seconds together =- Undying Love. At least they were likable! Well..Shiro was. And no, I don't feel sorry for Cima. Read her backstory, don't care. She had a tough break but so did most of these people I reckon. I think the reason the story portrays her as more vile than Gato and the Zeon Remnant leader is because they are patriots and devoted to a greater cause. Cima's kinda just really angry and selfish and that in turn is worse from a certain perspective. Also I definitely wouldn't be surprised if the writers were very much pro-Zeon. Not that Cima was that bad - I just don't think she was all that tragic. The actual bad characters are: 1. Nina 2. Nina Purpleton 3. Ms. Purpleton 4. Monsha So...my Gundam rankings as of right now: High points of MSG 08th MS Team Most of MSG Low Points of MSG [gap] Stardust Memory Right now I'm about to start the legendary Zeta Gundam and I'm really excited.
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Feb 12, 2014 08:06
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If you don't like episode one of zeta gundam you are dead to me and Imagawa
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Feb 12, 2014 08:08
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NikkolasKing posted:I watched Stardust Memory because I heard it was a lead-in to Zeta. I know some people said no it wasn't but I just figured they wee haters. But if this thing DOES in fact lead into Zeta, I have no idea how. By the end of the anime, I didn't even know what the gently caress was going on. Granted, I kinda tuned out for the last five episodes and just fiddled around on Google and other things while listening to the episodes here and there but I just don't get it. The Federation were working with Cima the whole time? Why? Why the gently caress did they sacrifice a 1/3-2/3rd of their fleet? What was the loving point of the whole thing? Iirc, the federation basically gets hijacked by a Junta after the delaz fleet fiasco, after which, the schemers waiting in the wings all scrambled to take power from a corrupt and inept federation government. Think of it as the gundam equivilent of "9/11 was an inside job!" and an excuse for them to militarize. Meow Tse-tung fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 08:21
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NikkolasKing posted:What was the loving point of the whole thing? 0083 is the explanation for how the main villains come to power in Zeta. That's pretty much the only noteworthy thing about it, timeline wise, and you didn't really need an explanation anyways.
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Feb 12, 2014 08:23
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NikkolasKing posted:Right now I'm about to start the legendary Zeta Gundam and I'm really excited. You're setting yourself up for disappointment, I think. It's a worthy effort but also pretty flawed and is basically MSG with prettier artwork, a somewhat more tortured plot and a cast that is (IMO) far less sympathetic and relatable than the original's. If you temper your expectations you may enjoy it, but it's really not the towering masterpiece that some make it out to be.
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Feb 12, 2014 08:24
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NikkolasKing posted:I watched Stardust Memory because I heard it was a lead-in to Zeta. I know some people said no it wasn't but I just figured they wee haters. But if this thing DOES in fact lead into Zeta, I have no idea how. Remember dude with the goggles that was in command of the Solar System II, and the old dude with goatee at the end? They're Zeta characters, running the Zeta villain faction. Remember how the Albion people were swapping their tan uniforms for navy blue? That's the enemy faction's uniform. That's it. It doesn't "lead in" per se, since it was made seven years after Zeta in order to explain the creation of that faction, but it failed at giving a convincing answer seeing as nothing that happens in that series was particularly new (the nuke didn't do as much damage as the Solar Ray, there was a colony drop early in the OYW). In the end, it's an answer to a question nobody asked.
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Feb 12, 2014 08:30
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Yeah but GP-03 directly led us to the METEOR units in Gundam SEED and everyone knows those are the best things ever. I actually like GN Arms though...
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Feb 12, 2014 08:53
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Eej posted:Yeah but GP-03 directly led us to the METEOR units in Gundam SEED and everyone knows those are the best things ever. I thought the GN Arms were pretty cool too. Just a pity we never got to see a GN Arms-V (Virtue Gundam) though 
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Feb 12, 2014 09:00
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NikkolasKing posted:I watched Stardust Memory because I heard it was a lead-in to Zeta. I know some people said no it wasn't but I just figured they wee haters. But if this thing DOES in fact lead into Zeta, I have no idea how. By the end of the anime, I didn't even know what the gently caress was going on. Granted, I kinda tuned out for the last five episodes and just fiddled around on Google and other things while listening to the episodes here and there but I just don't get it. The Federation were working with Cima the whole time? Why? Why the gently caress did they sacrifice a 1/3-2/3rd of their fleet? What was the loving point of the whole thing? Basically, an old rear end in a top hat named Jamitov decided he wanted to take over the Federation government, so he set some things in motion. First, get the Federation to build a mobile suit with a loving nuke on it. Second, leak the existence of that mobile suit and where it is and when that place will be vulnerable to Zeon remnants(via Cima). Third, make sure said Zeon remnants know exactly the time and place you're going to be holding a military review for a huge portion of your fleet. Fourth, use your connections to make sure the ships assigned to that military review are almost entirely crewed by people unfriendly or apathetic to your personal power base and don't warn them what's coming. In effect, Jamitov engineered the entire 0083 incident as a way to wipe out his political enemies and seize power in the form of the Titans military junta. The Titans quickly establish what amounts to martial law and set themselves above and beyond the normal Federation chain of command using the fact that Zeon remnants just nuked a loving Federation fleet and tried to drop a colony again as justification. Zeta never really goes into detail about the how and the why that the Titans exist, so that's the 0083 link.
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Feb 12, 2014 09:14
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Kanos posted:Basically, an old rear end in a top hat named Jamitov decided he wanted to take over the Federation government, so he set some things in motion. Makes sense I guess. Thanks for the info. (same for everyone else) I thought the big bad in Zeta was a woman though. Apparently one of the most popular females in the series too. muike posted:If you don't like episode one of zeta gundam you are dead to me and Imagawa Just watched the first episode. Kamille is...I was gonna say he's more decisive than the previous Gundam leads I've seen but that isn't the right word. Shiro was pretty resolute and Amuro got his head on straight eventually too. No, the word I was looking for was "angry" or perhaps "nuts." Yes, Kamille is certainly angrier than any Gundam protagonist I've met. Attacks a soldier while he's with a group of his buddies, is bailed out by his mom but then attacks the officer detaining him, steals a car, jumps out of the car while it's still driving... Only then does apparent sanity reclaim him and he asks what the hell he's gonna do now. And then the episode is over. If I didn't already know, I could guess he was a Newtype from all the freaky stuff going on with him. I do know he's a Newtype though and that in the end of the series he ends up in a coma. I figure it has something to do with hissuper psychic powers since he's supposed to be the most powerful Newtype ever. Maybe the powers are making him act crazy? I don't know what to say or think about the other guy. He infiltrated a Titans base and I have no idea who he is or what he's up to. Guessing he's a Newtype too though.
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Feb 12, 2014 09:39
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Kamille is a lot of things, but he is never boring. I think Zeta has at least as many punches thrown as G Gundam, maybe more.
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Feb 12, 2014 09:44
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NikkolasKing posted:I thought the big bad in Zeta was a woman though. Apparently one of the most popular females in the series. Assuming you're talking about Haman, she's mostly kind of in the background in Zeta and doesn't really come in to her own until the next series ZZ.
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Feb 12, 2014 09:48
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muike posted:If you don't like episode one of zeta gundam you are dead to me and Imagawa Guess I'm dead cuz it's not very good!! NikkolasKing posted:If I didn't already know, I could guess he was a Newtype from all the freaky stuff going on with him. I do know he's a Newtype though and that in the end of the series he ends up in a coma. I figure it has something to do with hissuper psychic powers since he's supposed to be the most powerful Newtype ever. Maybe the powers are making him act crazy? Being a Newtype is having Space Autism. NikkolasKing posted:I don't know what to say or think about the other guy. He infiltrated a Titans base and I have no idea who he is or what he's up to. Guessing he's a Newtype too though. That's Char 
MEAT! fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 09:51
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MEAT! posted:That's Char
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Feb 12, 2014 13:16
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It's hard for me to be unbiased since I love everything about Zeta, but enjoy the music, which is just crazy good throughout. EDIT: now that I think of it, Zeta was the first full Gundam show I saw (I saw part of War in the Pocket, then decided to rent Zeta... you can imagine my confusion maybe.) EDIT 2: VV I like to think that Zeta is a cautionary tale as to why you shouldn't beat your kids. VV hallo spacedog fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 14:53
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I love Zeta Gundam, but again, the show is basically Dicks in Space. Kamille is kind of a lunatic. While Amuro and a lot of giant robot anime protagonists whine and cry a lot, Kamille is pissed off at all times and punches everyone. Zeta Gundam has so much gratuitous physical violence often stemming from minor annoyances, it's pretty goddamn hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckUbAykOt3M "Hey you! Yeah you at the next table over! Don't blow your nose in a restaurant!" *runs over and decks a complete stranger in the face, then repeatedly kicks him while he's down after he falls*
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Feb 12, 2014 15:25
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Imagine what SEED would be like if you just replaced Kira with Kamille. What a bloodbath that could've been  Edit: Nicol would be dead before we even see a Gundam
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Feb 12, 2014 16:34
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Athrun wouldn' thave made it out of the colony, Rau would be dead by episode 3. Rest of the show would have been the Camille-Cagalli desert dunebuggy championship.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:38
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Zeta is great but I wasn't even that into it until episodes 15-20 (Hong Kong), which is where it starts to feel like it has an overall direction. Before that everything that happens almost feels like a non sequitur. But then you're like... okay, I get what they're doing here. And then Haman shows up.  Paptimus starts being a bigger threat too. Basically the best part of Zeta's characters are the villains, and the show is totally stacked with them.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:13
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MEAT! posted:That's Char This isn't as obvious as it was in the original japanese dub due to all the changing voice actors.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:37
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Camille is a man's name. At least in french, it can be used for both men and women. Just look at Camille Saint-Saens, French Romantic composer, rocking a pretty nice beard. He's got a man's name, and he's a man.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:46
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I hated Zeta and even I liked the first episode. If the series had continued in that direction, I could've enjoyed it the same way I enjoyed the non-Kira parts of Destiny: gently caress logic, the main character's loving insane and it's hilarious! Instead Kamille becomes super-depressing. If he had just kept that sheer bloodlust he showed in the first episode...but sigh, nope, he's just whiny as gently caress. He punches people very often, sure, but it's always because he's such a tortured soul, oh god. The only likable people in Zeta are the people from MSG (who are older, wiser, and far more competent than they were in MSG, and it's awesome to see; this of course excludes one particular rear end in a top hat) and Emma. And Apolly, I guess, he gets so little spotlight, it's hard to hate him, and he's pretty likable when the series gives a gently caress about his existance. Raku posted:Basically the best part of Zeta's characters are the villains, and the show is totally stacked with them. Oddly enough, I agree with this. Excluding Jerid, the villains in Zeta are actually pretty cool. Granted, this might be because I wanted every "hero" (with the exception of Emma) dead and buried, but overall I actually liked the Zeta villains. Scirocco and Haman are pretty cool and Yazan is a loving psycopath and that's awesome to watch.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:55
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NikkolasKing posted:I thought the big bad in Zeta was a woman though. Apparently one of the most popular females in the series too. She (Haman Khan/Karn) actually shows up in 0083 for like 5 seconds on the bridge of one of the Zeon cruisers towards the end (with the evacing by "the Axis Fleet" of Delaz fleet survivors). She's the one with purple hair looking out the window. Most pointless cameo ever 
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Feb 12, 2014 17:57
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Wouldn't Char have been with her at that point? Or had he already left axis?
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Feb 12, 2014 19:09
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Kingtheninja posted:Wouldn't Char have been with her at that point? Or had he already left axis? IIRC in the Zeta novels, right after the end of MSG, he used the confusion to steal Quattro's identity (who was dead), and took advantage of the fact all the records were missing to enlist in the Federation, which is how he joined up with AEUG in the first place. hallo spacedog fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 19:12
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Then there's Char's Deleted Affair, but the less said about that piece of character assassination the better.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:22
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What's so bad about it out of interest? About the only thing I know about is that Haman fans on /m/ seem to adore it and that she ends up killing Char's girlfriend and unborn kid or something out of jealousy when he rejects her. Which, yea, that sounds pretty terrible in and of itself since Char doesn't come across as the kind of guy who would have had either a long term girlfriend or that kind of tragic backstory in MSG and neither came across as having that kind of personal enmity between them in Zeta (though they certainly did have a lot of actual enmity between them - just not that kind). I'm just kind of curious if there's more to what makes it bad.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:32
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Kitazume's art makes it bad, for one thing. EDIT: Quess part 2. hallo spacedog fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 19:39
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A young Haman could go many interesting places, but "cutsey & naive/airheaded" isn't one of them. I wouldn't go as far as saying she's a moe-blob, but ugh, too close. And yeah, the artwork. e: Haha, I also thought of comparing her to Quess. Have some official artwork:   Haman shouldn't look like she's about to cry in every other drawing. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 19:39
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NikkolasKing posted:
I can't tell if you're serious or just playing along, but he wears red, has a red MS variant, and explicitly talks about Amuro and Lalah.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:53
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Blaze Dragon posted:I hated Zeta and even I liked the first episode. If the series had continued in that direction, I could've enjoyed it the same way I enjoyed the non-Kira parts of Destiny: gently caress logic, the main character's loving insane and it's hilarious! How can you hate on YAZAN GABLE AND THE HAMBRABI, MASTER OF VIOLATION
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Feb 12, 2014 20:00
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Popehoist posted:This isn't as obvious as it was in the original japanese dub due to all the changing voice actors. Edit: Oops missed Iserlohn's post. MEAT! fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 20:14
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 15:21 |
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Yeah yeah I'm dumb. I was just listening to the voice, which is different in the dub as noted earlier. Although the mention of Amuro and Lalah should have tipped me off, I just figured they were kinda household names now. Shouldn't they be? Especially Amuro. Anyway, in hindsight, Kamille's actions in the first episode make more sense. He wasn't randomly attacking your average rent-a-cops like it seemed, he was lashing out at the SS. I am okay with that. Also Jesus, his parents, they didn't last long. His dad was some kind of a weasel though. introduction he slaps his wife after she calls him out on cheating on her, then he steals the mecha to give it to the guy who killed said wife.... Are we gonna get more backstory about Kamille's relationship with his parents though? Maybe meet the infamous mistress of his dad's? Dnglish dub is better than MSG or 0083. Master Asia is the narrator and I really like Kamille. Char's new VA is also superior. I'm really enjoying the show too. The Federation being the bad guys - who can object?
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Feb 12, 2014 20:16
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