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Blehhhhh, this actually may be what makes me bite the bullet and buy Starbound.
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Feb 12, 2014 12:23
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gently caress these changes, just gently caress em. Sure just make all the materials you need for the best stuff rarer and take longer to get to, and lets make you need more while we're at it. Let's gently caress with a bunch of good weapons, including one of the hardest melee weapons to get, but don't worry, we'll make the rainbow rod better to compensate. People used that right?
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Feb 12, 2014 14:07
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Yeah, this is a Dungeon Defenders-level terrible patch. I really liked that you could buy the mushroom spear and grind out some Frost Armor if you wanted to; Frost Armor in particular was pretty high-risk, high-reward (although Golden Shower kind of trivialized Frost Giants). I've never really liked the hardmode ore progression because every region starts hitting about equally hard (except maybe the jungle) as soon as you beat the Wall of Flesh. In pre-hardmode, you could avoid the jungle and corruption/crimson until you'd geared up enough to handle the tough areas, but hardmode (especially without the mushroom spear, which I've never actually used) just encourages you to jump back into your hellevator, strip-mine the first ore, build the drill, and then mine/build the drill until you've got enough of the third ore. Which has always been really, really boring. Taking out meteor head drops is really unfortunate, too, especially because I remember farming souls off of them in 1.1 so I've always assumed that it was working as designed. It was such an off-the-wall thing to do: not only to hang on to enough meteorite to flip the biome, but also to take that deep enough into the underground and plop it all down. It was just such a wacky, fun thing to do and not really that exploitative--you still had to kill enemies that packed a decent punch, but at least you didn't have to deal with some of the ridiculous enemies in hardmode (i.e., no broken armor or teleporting chaos elementals). I haven't really gotten into Starbound yet, but this doesn't really make me think about going back to Terraria. Which is fine enough for the developer since he's already got my money, but I'll remember this if Terraria 2 ever materializes.
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Feb 12, 2014 14:11
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The biggest crime is they didn't bother balancing hardmore ore armor sets. Having the vanilla ores in your world is an actual hindrance compared to what you could have. Every single one of these just screams of lazy development.
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Feb 12, 2014 14:19
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Good to see that Redigit's Absolute Virtue Syndrome continues unabated. "You're playing differently from my ~VISION?!~ NERF EVERYTHING  "
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Feb 12, 2014 14:39
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Well there goes any motivation to reinstall this game. I guess they're doing me a favor though, I've already wasted 300+ hours on this game, I think I'm done with Terraria.
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Feb 12, 2014 15:26
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Urgh, I was waiting until my girlfriend got her new PC to replay Terraria together (1.2 made it stop working on her laptop altogether, of course). She just got it and this drops? Looks like it takes half the fun out of the game. Time to see if Starbound has enough content to be fun yet...
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Feb 12, 2014 17:32
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I'm surprised there even IS another update. I thought Redigit was working and focusing on the sequel. I agree with everyone else. These changes sound really bad. Eh, I think I've spent enough time with the game. 400 hours will do it for me. Never even tried the halloween or frost battles but couldn't be bothered to grind them out.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:46
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It's like he went and made a note of every single item that's good enough for people to use before they reach the end of hardmode, and then nerfed every last one of them - sometimes excessively. Mushroom Spear? Now not available till much later, and also it costs more and does less damage. It's true that the items he used generally were better than everything else, but the reason they were popular wasn't just because "they're better" but because they were things that could be easily obtained at the start of Hardmode and could actually handle Hardmode enemies until you get the crafting materials/rare drops for fancier stuff. On the other hand, anyone who's at the endgame already isn't going to be affected by most of those changes, so whatever, go have fun and enjoy the increased key mold drops.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:55
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Main Paineframe posted:It's like he went and made a note of every single item that's good enough for people to use before they reach the end of hardmode, and then nerfed every last one of them - sometimes excessively Yup, and people are sucking that mod/Redigit's knob over it. "Oh I'm so glad I can't just skip lots of the game!" You know... just don't loving buy the shroom spear if you hate it that much? 
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Feb 12, 2014 17:58
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I have to wonder what type of person is still going through the game's progession multiple times and saying 'boy I wish this was inherently harder for everyone involved'.WEEDLORD CHEETO posted:Urgh, I was waiting until my girlfriend got her new PC to replay Terraria together (1.2 made it stop working on her laptop altogether, of course). She just got it and this drops? Looks like it takes half the fun out of the game. Time to see if Starbound has enough content to be fun yet... Depends on what you want out of it, really. If you want to just chill and explore lots of different places while collecting cool stuff, then you'll probably get some fun out of it even in the early state it's in. The dev team is doing a good job of updating at a solid pace and there's always really easy to install mods to look to if you feel like it.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:56
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:I have to wonder what type of person is still going through the game's progession multiple times and saying 'boy I wish this was inherently harder for everyone involved'. The same sort of person who throws an unholy fit about accessibility and quality of life features getting added to MMOs. 
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Feb 12, 2014 19:11
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I'm disappointed they went this route, but I'm also not surprised. The way I see it, we have at least one real competitor in its field and a few more if you count 3d world building. Now is a good time to let Terraria take its place in history and move on to something better, before we get caught up in any drama that might otherwise ruin the experience we've had.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:14
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I like everything about terraria except its MMORPG-inspired time-sink skinner-box grindfest aspects, and this patch just makes them that much worse.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:19
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Clark Nova posted:I like everything about terraria except its MMORPG-inspired time-sink skinner-box grindfest aspects, and this patch just makes them that much worse. One of the greatest things about 1.2 was the new ways to sequence break, where you rush into the desert, grab full cactus equipment and go down to grab gold for a pick and bombs for corrpution. That's the worst part about hardmode, you still just want to get the next lvl drill and next lvl drill so you can get Picksaw and get the rest. Nobody in their right mind would make full Cobolt -> orichalium -> titanium, etc.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:12
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Based on the difficulty of Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon, that's exactly how they've been trying to tune the game. As has been said, this patch just continues the descent into needless grind and "one true vision" progression. Any weapons that weren't the ones he intended to be used are now worthless. I mean, why not just take the poison staff and others out of the game entirely if you want to make them so worthless? There's literally no reason to use them now. There's basically one "correct" set of gear progression and that's it. Why even have alternatives if they're not worth using at all? Progression is becoming stricter and stricter than ever, yet at the same time, it's being forced on players. So not only do you need to kill all the mech bosses before moving on, the game actually throws them at you, ready or not. What sense does that make? The other bosses don't do that, save the Eye, and even that has certain checks to make sure you're ready. And of course the grind is just being lengthened, with everything taking even more material to craft. And the materials that are in higher demand now are the ones that were ALREADY used in like dozens of recipes, materials you had to spread so thin that even in endgame you'd be grinding for them. Meanwhile other materials you have hundreds of with nothing to spend on continue to go unused. I mean, Chlorophyte was one of the most demanding ores there is. It's used in multiple chlorophyte sets, plus three different advanced sets that it can be upgraded into, plus all kinds of weapons and tools AND their upgraded versions, plus ammo. And now we're making it even rarer and requiring more ore per bar. What the gently caress? Do you think we don't already spend enough time grinding around in the jungle? And of course the balance gets even worse if you play with other people. Getting enough for one player is bad enough, try outfitting a squad of four with these new limitations.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:38
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FadingChord posted:Yeah, this is a Dungeon Defenders-level terrible patch. This is an awful patch. 
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Feb 12, 2014 21:40
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Kyrosiris posted:The same sort of person who throws an unholy fit about accessibility and quality of life features getting added to MMOs. Yeah but there's that competitive "sit in town and show-off your end-game poopsock gear" element that Terraria doesn't have. There's literally no reason at all to be bothered by other people progressing too easily, not even frivolous spergy ones.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:47
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FadingChord posted:remember this if Terraria 2 ever materializes. This is what everyone should be taking away from Terraria's development.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:49
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The new update is also adding stuff so it's entirely possible new items will fill the gaps left by the balance changes. But, you know, let's loving explode in anger now instead of waiting for the update to actually hit, after all we know better about this than the developers, our limited grasp of what else might be changed or added be damned. As it is with all game communities ever.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:02
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Nah, sorry, there's really no defending poo poo like both walling off and nerfing the Mushroom Spear, making the Rod of Discord not worth the disk space it takes to store the data for that item, etc.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:05
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There is if he's adding new alternatives but you're too busy doing kneejerk backflips to accept there's any way this could turn out alright. Maybe new weapons! Maybe new ways of travel! Maybe new accessories or armor sets that buff one of the two/both! Or new status effects from new sources!FadingChord posted:I haven't really gotten into Starbound yet, but this doesn't really make me think about going back to Terraria. Which is fine enough for the developer since he's already got my money, but I'll remember this if Terraria 2 ever materializes. I mean poo poo like this. You'll remember what? That you bought a fun game for like ten bucks that was more than tripled for free over the next few years and then a patch came out that changed some things? Yeah, I'll remember when Terraria 2 is announced that Terraria had a bunch of free poo poo added to it that was changed a little bit (and then maybe changed even again when the first change was declared too much in the other direction, something which could entirely happen, or left alone if it turns out the other stuff added makes up for it). So far there's one post about someone sucking someone's dick, numerous posts about tentatively switching to a different game/uninstalling/whatever, a bunch of "ol' greedy Red got his money and ruined everything", etc. Like seriously people, loving chill. If the update hits AND it sucks AND Red sternly refuses to revert any of the changes then sure, but let's try to hold off and be a little better than SPUF until we know for sure.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:16
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Mr.Hotkeys posted:If the update hits AND it sucks AND Red sternly refuses to revert any of the changes then sure So then by that logic we're cool to feel this way given basically... every patch since the Pumpkin Moon?
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Feb 12, 2014 22:23
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Kyrosiris posted:So then by that logic we're cool to feel this way given basically... every patch since the Pumpkin Moon? Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon are entirely optional. By your logic, if you don't like them, don't participate. Rod of Discord was broken as gently caress, and did need changed, just not in the absence of some other good alternative. That was a mistake, but people got by just fine in 1.1 without one, and without teleporters (imperfect as they are as a solution, they still work). Nerfing it didn't ruin the game, it was just a bummer getting used to how long it took to travel. Stuff like Spectre Armor, Golden Shower on the Destroyer, and Plantera on the surface were all clearly broken as well, most of the posters here even agreed with how trivial those kinds of tactics made it. And again, nerfing those things kept the game playable. Harder because you had to put effort into killing things and progressing, but not unplayable. I'll also go ahead and mention new items and tweaks to multiple other things were added along with these changes, very similar to what will happen with whatever the next patch is, that made other playstyles much more viable and added other quality of life improvements.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:33
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Mr.Hotkeys posted:There is if he's adding new alternatives but you're too busy doing kneejerk backflips to accept there's any way this could turn out alright. There's no armor set or buff that can offset a more rigidly-structured progression, boss rushes can't somehow compensate for increasing ore grind, and adding new, better weapons won't really have any change on the existing ones that have been nerfed into oblivion.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:39
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I don't really see much point in playing anymore if it's going to go hard in the direction of weird MMO-style stuff without offering much more than 'a couple new items and whatever' in return, especially since better options exist nowadays that don't require me to stress out. Sorry if this equals 'gamers exploding in anger' to you.  e: I'm not going to vouch for comments that others make, but there's legit reasons to look at those changes and go 'maybe it's more of a pain than it's worth now'.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:48
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Vib Rib posted:There's no armor set or buff that can offset a more rigidly-structured progression, boss rushes can't somehow compensate for increasing ore grind, and adding new, better weapons won't really have any change on the existing ones that have been nerfed into oblivion. Yet. We've yet to see what else might be added. Remember that they don't need to add a new armor or whatever, if they add more tangible content during that progression, it won't be as much of a grind. They could also add alternative recipes or ways to get ores. Who knows? I don't, but don't pretend like you do. The ore grind apparently will be increased, but by how much? They all read "slightly". I'd rather have boss rushes and the new items both the Moon events brought than have chlorophyte be 5% more common and take one less ore to smelt bars. I mean I guess that's just me but, again, we have no idea how much the majority of the stuff in that patch will change because there are very few hard numbers. A 16% damage reduction and not being available until you progress isn't being nerfed into oblivion, it's just being moved around in the hierarchy. Neither of which really matters anyways considering its unique ability is what draws people to it and it still does exactly that, just with a bit less damage. At the end of the day, there's a reason they're asking Reddit for their comments on the patchnotes. None of this is set in stone, so go post there and Tweet them and let them know. But for god's sake, be a bit less "the end is nigh red is loving us again I'm uninstalling Terraria never buying the sequel and buying ten copies of Starbound" than here. Agent Kool-Aid posted:I don't really see much point in playing anymore if it's going to go hard in the direction of weird MMO-style stuff without offering much more than 'a couple new items and whatever' in return The problem is we don't know this we're all just assuming this and then posting madly about it. All I'm saying is go tell Demilogic like an adult that you don't like it and why and then wait and see. Maybe they'll change some of it, maybe they won't but what gets added will make up for it.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:51
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Even if he is adding new stuff, he's literally making several items more or less useless, which is pointless and dumb. Even if they are going to be replaced, why gently caress it up until there is a replacement, and even then, why bother at all?
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Feb 12, 2014 22:52
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Mr.Hotkeys posted:A 16% damage reduction and not being available until you progress isn't being nerfed into oblivion It will be weaker than the Chlorophyte Spear and require more boss progression. There is thus literally no reason for it to exist post-patch. E: Wait, I'm dumb, Chlorophyte starts spawning after one mech boss, not all three.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:54
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Mr.Hotkeys posted:Yet. We've yet to see what else might be added. Remember that they don't need to add a new armor or whatever, if they add more tangible content during that progression, it won't be as much of a grind. They could also add alternative recipes or ways to get ores. Who knows? I don't, but don't pretend like you do.  There's no surprise twist on fundamental gameplay that changes the obvious:
I get that you're trying to defend the game, but don't act like we have no idea what we're talking about. This is more of the same.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:59
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Kyrosiris posted:Nah, sorry, there's really no defending poo poo like both walling off and nerfing the Mushroom Spear, making the Rod of Discord not worth the disk space it takes to store the data for that item, etc. I think the patch was actually buffing the Rod of Discord, allowing it to be used more frequently without penalties and reducing the health penalty for using it too quickly. That said, I don't understand at all why he's buffing the Rainbow Rod. No amount of minor tweaks will make that thing useful.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:05
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Main Paineframe posted:I think the patch was actually buffing the Rod of Discord, allowing it to be used more frequently without penalties and reducing the health penalty for using it too quickly. I'm more referring to the original kneecapping of the item which Red and his sycophant mod on Reddit are now calling a "bug fix" in some extreme revisionist history.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:07
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Vib Rib posted:Please, tell me how anything they could add would change the game so fundamentally that making chlorophyte more of a grind, or turning weapons like the poison staff useless, could possibly be taken out of context. What's new mechanic could feasibly be in store that makes these obviously bad changes actually a complex, deceptive illusion that we're all taking the wrong way? Literally anything, who the gently caress knows? You want me to show you another established pattern? Look at the game now, look at it when it launched. See the difference? Potions were added, new biomes were added, status effects were added (or was it expanded, one or the other), npcs, monsters, AI patterns, bosses events, weather, ammo slots, cosmetic items, accessory combining, the list goes on. If there is a single game that would be likely to have something more in store, it'd be this one. Did you expect 1.1 to be as huge and crazy as it was? How about 1.2? Did you expect 1.2 to come at all like a year ago? They've already said they want to do one more big update, maybe this is part of that and we won't see this patch for a while? Why assume otherwise until we actually know? What is the point of all these posts pretending we do? Though I don't know why it takes this much effort to drill "everything seems pretty nebulous so just loving wait and see" into your heads as this so I'm gonna conclude you've all made up your minds and this whole thing is pointless. Go back to your cool dogpile I guess.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:12
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Mr.Hotkeys posted:Why assume otherwise until we actually know? What is the point of all these posts pretending we do? Well the last time there was a "hey these are WIP patch notes, we're taking feedback", the patch rolled out 100% like the "WIP patch notes" and community input that wasn't 100% praise for them was point-blank ignored (or replied to with insults from Redigit/Cenx/Aeroblop), so we're back to that "pattern of behavior" thing again.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:15
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Mr.Hotkeys posted:Though I don't know why it takes this much effort to drill "everything seems pretty nebulous so just loving wait and see" into your heads as this so I'm gonna conclude you've all made up your minds and this whole thing is pointless. Go back to your cool dogpile I guess. That Reddit thread is specifically asking for people's input on those proposed balance changes, in a vacuum and therefore in the context of the game as it currently exists.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:18
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Kyrosiris posted:Well the last time there was a "hey these are WIP patch notes, we're taking feedback", the patch rolled out 100% like the "WIP patch notes" and community input that wasn't 100% praise for them was point-blank ignored (or replied to with insults from Redigit/Cenx/Aeroblop), so we're back to that "pattern of behavior" thing again. I don't think it matters what's said, we're gonna be dogpiled for not liking 100% of it all!
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Feb 12, 2014 23:19
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:I don't think it matters what's said, we're gonna be dogpiled for not liking 100% of it all! Well yes, because Redigit has Absolute Virtue Syndrome and can't bear to see ~his baby~ played in a way that isn't His Vision. See also, the Plantera bullshit.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:20
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If this game wants to stay relevant they should really think of some new mechanisms. It'd be great to create bots that can follow basic commands like "dig down" or "defend home".
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Feb 12, 2014 23:25
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I think there were legit reasons for the Plantera change. You could just make a rope 100 blocks high and climb up it just out of its reach, and then kill it with impunity. Preventing it from moving to the surface fixed this. I'm willing to accept that these nerfs might be offset by new poo poo, but I'd really wanna see the patch notes with all of that in there. Right now this reads like someone taking every single nerf from a bigger patch and posting them on their own.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:28
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Kyrosiris posted:Well yes, because Redigit has Absolute Virtue Syndrome and can't bear to see ~his baby~ played in a way that isn't His Vision. See also, the Plantera bullshit. Stopping a boss from being cheesed is bullshit?
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