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Octopus Magic posted:You're more than likely to get partially ejected in a 3 point than being able to fold up like a delicate origami crane and be protected than a 4 point. Mmmmmmhm.... still going with 4 points more dangerous than factory 3 points. But hey, gotta look good on the street man, who cares about a camlock destroying all of your organs as you submarine into oblivion.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:15
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I was wanting something to hold me in place better. The leather seats aren't so good for grip. It's my DD so I have no plans for buckets. If the 4-point option is less safe I may just grab one of those CG-Locks and see if that helps. Thanks for the advice.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:19
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CG locks work pretty well. Not as good as a real harness, but significantly better than OEM 3 points.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:21
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Phone posted:The only 4 point harness "worth" buying is the Rallye one by Schroth. This. The Schroth Rallye contain an anti-submarining feature (basically the inside shoulder belt contains a loop of extra belt that rips open allowing you to twist & fold over the lap belt like with a 3-point setup) and for this reason these are the only 4-point belts permitted in any of the track organizations I've run with. I would not ever use any other 4-point belts, and I would not use these if 6-points were a viable option.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:27
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Octopus Magic posted:You're more than likely to get partially ejected in a 3 point than being able to fold up like a delicate origami crane and be protected than a 4 point. Not even close. 4-points are terrible and no one should ever use them. The only reason the schroth rally 4-point deal is acceptable is because it acts like a 3-point in a collision. The big problem with a 4-point is that tightening the shoulder straps pulls up the waist belt so they are generally not around your hips the way they are supposed to be. The 5th point is not there so much to keep you from sliding under the belts, but to keep the belts in the right place so it doesn't have to. I rode in a car with a 4-pt once and will never do it again. The whole time I was thinking "please don't crash" as my friend was doing powerslides around the cal speedway infield. I don't even know why this is a discussion here because most track day organizers will not let you out with a 4-point anyway. I was at a NASA event last weekend and watched tech turn two guys away because of it. jamal fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 22:37
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The Speedventures tech inspection form says they are OK with 3/5/6 point systems but if you have a 4 point then whoa buddy we need to inspect that for you.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:43
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I've seen this argument hashed out a few times. The only intermediate solution before full cage that I am comfortable with is: roll bar, 6-pt, seats made for 6-pt and a neck restraint. I haven't decided if I want to leave the stock 3-pt seat belts in for driving on the street yet. Even the Schroth ASM solution doesn't seem to solve the issue of the belt riding up when the shoulder belts are tightened. I would imagine, you would want to keep the shoulder part moderately loose. nollij fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 04:04
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Octopus Magic posted:You're more than likely to get partially ejected in a 3 point than being able to fold up like a delicate origami crane and be protected than a 4 point. You have no idea how seatbelts work. Please stop posting about them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWwIMm7-t-s&t=20s
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Feb 13, 2014 19:00
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Savington posted:You have no idea how seatbelts work. Please stop posting about them. In a roll over, partial ejection with a three point is a very possible thing! Also most of those three point users in that video look like they're submarining pretty bad (which I would assume would be the point of the video, to sell Takata's ASM belts). Don't get me wrong, I think five/six points are safer than a four point, but I don't think 4 point is some sort of instant death sentence you guys seem to think it is (as is saying that there's zero safety in between a street 3 point and FULL CAGE HANS HELMET FIA BELTS UPDATED EVERY YEAR) Octopus Magic fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 20:01
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Octopus Magic posted:In a roll over, partial ejection with a three point is a very possible thing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks072waMayk
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Feb 13, 2014 23:01
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Octopus Magic posted:Don't get me wrong, I think five/six points are safer than a four point, but I don't think 4 point is some sort of instant death sentence you guys seem to think it is (as is saying that there's zero safety in between a street 3 point and FULL CAGE HANS HELMET FIA BELTS UPDATED EVERY YEAR) 4-point belts are banned from every HPDE group in California, as well as NASA and SCCA nationwide. There have been at least two deaths and one other major injury directly attributed to 4-point belts in CA over the last decade: 1. fataility in Mini at WSIR in T9, 4-points came loose, partial ejection 2. Subaru at SOW, head-on into concrete wall, major submarining of driver/passenger 3. fatality at Chuckwalla last year, head-on into corner-worker stand, passenger submarined and was killed, driver airlifted with major injuries). You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please just let it go, your bad advice could kill someone.
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Feb 13, 2014 23:09
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No one allows them at VIR or CMP either. 4 points are terrible ricer poo poo, end of story. (exception for Schroth)
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Feb 14, 2014 04:09
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I was hoping it would be in the 60's tomorrow but it looks like it will be about 85 Southern California  hashtag humblebrag
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Feb 15, 2014 00:10
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FatCow posted:No one allows them at VIR or CMP either. 4 points are terrible ricer poo poo, end of story. 4 points are fine, the correct installation and use of them is so close to 5 points though it's pretty trivial just to require the 5th belt which gives a lot more safety leeway in the event of incorrect belt useage. Even 5 points can be dangerous if you leave a belt loose or tighten the shoulders first.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:31
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Unless the CCR changed since I last looked, NASA allows 4 points if they are tagged with FMVSS compliance for that specific vehicle. Which basically means only Schroth.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:33
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For once I agree with Octopus Magic. Tomorrow morning heading to Cal Speedway with Schroth 4 points, a fixed back Momo from 1999 and no roll-bar. Adieu, my fine goon sirs, see you on the other side!  (If you're there and see this car and I'm not dead yet, come say hi!) aventari fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 09:17
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I was there today, new low time of 2:07, had to leave after my third run because a valve stem started leaking. Shame because it was cooling down around then. Were you in green group? I got some stairway fly by footy of them. I'm in America's Tire listening to a guy crying about a warranty for his front tire wear on his BMW, meanwhile I'm sitting here jealous of his camber wear. I don't have the guts to use camber bolts. Longpig Bard fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 00:17
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Just got back, was running a blue S2000 in Purple group. New best time of 2:00.021. So loving close! Going back tomorrow, gotta get a 1:59 now.
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Feb 16, 2014 01:11
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Any recommendations for data acquisition? I would like GPS and accelerometer information built in. Also, as many data inputs as possible would be great. I would like to have 4 for potential linear position sensors, an RPM sensor and camera syncing at the minimum. Basically, I would like the Traqmate but with more than the 4 analog data inputs.
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Feb 16, 2014 01:37
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AEM AQ-1? I get a pretty good discount on their stuff but I don't know a whole lot about that thing.
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Feb 16, 2014 01:42
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I've only researched the AIM Solo and Solo DL. If you can get canbus in, basically any solution should work fine.
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Feb 16, 2014 02:29
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jamal posted:AEM AQ-1? I get a pretty good discount on their stuff but I don't know a whole lot about that thing. Hmmm... 8 analog inputs and fairly cheap compared to Traqmate. The harness for it seems a little expensive though.
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Feb 16, 2014 02:37
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nollij posted:Hmmm... 8 analog inputs and fairly cheap compared to Traqmate. The harness for it seems a little expensive though. Can that do CAN/OBD reading? It looks like it can't. I have a Solo DL, it's OK, but I wouldn't recommend it. The software and interface is kind of weird, and you can't easily add inputs. The AEM looks like it could do that, but can't log the gobs of data on the CAN bus?
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Feb 16, 2014 03:39
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the poi posted:Can that do CAN/OBD reading? It looks like it can't. I have a Solo DL, it's OK, but I wouldn't recommend it. The software and interface is kind of weird, and you can't easily add inputs. The AEM looks like it could do that, but can't log the gobs of data on the CAN bus? I have a tactrix that reads all the OBDII stuff I program it to; including any additional sensors I bring to the ECU ACD inputs I am not using. I need information more related to the chassis, g-forces, speed, timing, etc. I was also looking at Linear position sensors for suspension travel. The engine stuff is sorted pretty well. nollij fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 05:02
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Hmm, studying why I'm a slow rear end by looking at other Mustangs in-car driving I see I'm not cranking the wheel around enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpnvWS9jRGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyU0tod1JgI I think its another iRacing habit, in the sim you only need to turn maybe 120 degrees to get enough rotation so I've been doing that on track, these guys have to turn it 180+
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Feb 17, 2014 07:09
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Bumming Your Scene posted:ROVAL ROVAL ROVAL Your corner exits and apex lines look a little rough, it's almost as if you're having to fight the vehicle dynamics for a false smooth input. You're scrubbing a lot of speed while fighting your vehicle mid to post apex when you could be making up seconds throughout, making a slower, controlled entry, and a fast punch out. Though, it looks like you had a blast! What was your fastest lap time? Was this the speedventures group? I forgot people were talking about ROVALing it up; I was infield with the autox group  .
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Feb 17, 2014 11:25
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McSpatula posted:Your corner exits and apex lines look a little rough, it's almost as if you're having to fight the vehicle dynamics for a false smooth input. You're scrubbing a lot of speed while fighting your vehicle mid to post apex when you could be making up seconds throughout, making a slower, controlled entry, and a fast punch out. Though, it looks like you had a blast! What was your fastest lap time? That's not me by the way, that's 2 different dudes who wear the same clothes. I'll put up a lap of mine later for comparison. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J3OD2Ux_q8 Longpig Bard fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 18:20
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McSpatula posted:Was this the speedventures group? I forgot people were talking about ROVALing it up; I was infield with the autox group Were you at auto-x on Saturday or just Sunday? My friend was running the red winged Fiero on Sat. Seemed pretty busy on Sunday though, ton of cars. I got out of the 2s! Fastest lap of the day for me, 1:58.4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS8WlXeFia8 Also, did anyone see the smooshed ZR1 up close? He apparently crashed into the inside wall at T3, but I have no idea how you do that...
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Feb 17, 2014 20:00
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the poi posted:Were you at auto-x on Saturday or just Sunday? My friend was running the red winged Fiero on Sat. Seemed pretty busy on Sunday though, ton of cars. Just Saturday, I was the one of the guys in the cts-v's. I wanted to bring the wrx on Sunday, but plans fell through at the last minute.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:36
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Why is it that every speedventures event I hear of has a crash of some sort? I've only been to one event where a car got crashed -- a rain day at blackhawk farms. Is there something up with the clientele or is the roval just dangerous?
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Feb 17, 2014 23:17
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nm posted:Why is it that every speedventures event I hear of has a crash of some sort? About a third of the Speed Ventures events that I attended had a collision of some kind. They're better organized than other groups I've tried (except maybe NASA) but they're also more tolerant of stuff (e.g. aggressive passing, hooking one wheel in the dirt on corner exits, etc.) e> or were; it's been a long time since I attended one of their track days Plus IMO Buttonwillow and Willow Springs (which they're always at) are relatively dangerous
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Feb 17, 2014 23:28
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nm posted:Why is it that every speedventures event I hear of has a crash of some sort? The roval just has a bunch of idiot checks in place with little room for run off. Are they still letting people self tech for hpde days?
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Feb 18, 2014 00:40
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A guy totaled his Mclaren mp4 at cal speedway a year or two ago. Apparantly his fault for driving like a jackass.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:05
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Was that the same guy who tried to shovel the blame onto Crawford for holding their line, until the Internet jumped down his throat?
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Feb 18, 2014 01:42
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Yeah, I don't know the specifics but I think quirt was driving their turbo brz and the McLaren tried to make a pass when he shouldn't have.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:57
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Admirable Gusto posted:About a third of the Speed Ventures events that I attended had a collision of some kind. They're better organized than other groups I've tried (except maybe NASA) but they're also more tolerant of stuff (e.g. aggressive passing, hooking one wheel in the dirt on corner exits, etc.) e> or were; it's been a long time since I attended one of their track days This was my first SV event, I've only done NASA events before. It's more lenient than NASA (self-tech, self-selection in run groups, no track passes) but from what I hear it's still more organized than other events. And to be fair to SV, that was the only incident that resulted in any serious damage all weekend--seems to be about on par with NASA in that regard. ACS doesn't seem particularly dangerous to me--the infield is not that fast, and the places were it is, there's a good deal of (paved) runoff. The banking seems a little scary, but I don't think it is, it's just disorienting cornering at such a high sped. If someone blew a motor on the straight/banking though, I'm sure carnage would follow.
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Feb 18, 2014 06:59
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I was on the ROVAL saturday, my first time there and my best time was a 2:03.032  Not bad for this: I've never had the car up to that high of speed before, probably ~130mph, and this causes the front plastic pushed fan I have to flex backwards and cut up a few rows out of the radiator at the end of session 2. (notice my coolant trail in the first pic) As seen here:  was able to use to JBweld and fix it surprisingly and not even miss session 3  I had a ton of fun I was never bored and I like the ROVAL a lot. Also my new PNP Megasquirt worked awesome. I should probably actually tune it now instead of using the base map the builder gave me  Bumming Your Scene posted:That's not me by the way, that's 2 different dudes who wear the same clothes. I'll put up a lap of mine later for comparison. I actually ran in the purple group in session 4 for bit, I think I was out there with you Vid looks like a solid run. Overall you seem to be braking a bit too early for most corners but it's so hard to tell from just video, you are probably just going hella faster than me. In 7 and 8 I think you can keep on the throttle through that section and not start lifting/braking until you are out of 8 and setting up for 9. I stay WOT throttle from 6 until I'm turning in for 9, but againI probably have 1/3 of your hp and a lot less weight. It just looks like you could toss the car around more than you are. Also apex 9 a bit later? As Admiral Gusto mentioned earlier quote:The other thing that took me a bunch of time to get right was slowing down sufficiently for the T12/T13 complex. It's tempting to carry way to much speed into T12 which just fucks up your approach to everything after that I was super conscious of that and really late apexed 12 and I think it helped a lot. aventari fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 08:25
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/\/\ Crap, wish I tracked you down on Saturday, I had a garage you could've used  I totally hosed up T12-13 the same way for most of Saturday before I chilled out. Bumming Your Scene posted:That's not me by the way, that's 2 different dudes who wear the same clothes. I'll put up a lap of mine later for comparison. lol, riced out Honda at 0:20 edit:// Sorry, NASA at ACS (again) on 3/1-3/2, or I guess BW on 3/8-3/9 with SV... the poi fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 10:46
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The wing probably works but HAHAHA ITS A 2D SPOILER! What a ricer! (just pretend I posted the Scion that jamal worked on a few years back)
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Feb 18, 2014 15:08
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Welp, after the tire discussion I just ordered a set of 245/40/17 RS3s for the M3. Must be closeout tires, they were only 25 more than tireracks price for Z2s and I don't have to pay duty or ridiculous shipping charges.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:40
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