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Lotish posted:So yeah, if by three years Liara meant three years, that means 2.5 of them are in downtime, and the first games take place over a combined six months, including the time between the end of ME1 and being blown up in the intro to ME2. I'd never skip any part of the ME2 intro though 
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Feb 8, 2014 15:44
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The whole time thing is probably just one other sympthom of the not-so-stellar writing. My first thought was they do this so that nobody wonders why the same people stand around in hubs like the citadel and do the same things for months on end, but I already wonder about this without having a frame of reference in the time department. The timing of events seems to be really weird and dream-like to begin with. Maybe the entire ME2 and ME3 events were a dream shepard had as he drifted into space. 
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Feb 8, 2014 20:44
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I know some people were unhappy about the "search for clues" stuff in Leviathan, but I'm up to the second segment of that stuff and I really dig this DLC so far. The constant spooky X-Filesy music during these segments, the datapad notes you come across, the way people look at you on that first asteroid mission—it's all good at setting the tone. Or maybe it's just a breath of fresh air because the only other DLC content I've done in 3 is Omega, which, because I hate Aria, was basically loving intolerable from start to finish. (I picked it up just for more Mass Effect content; "it can't be that bad, how much time could it possibly spend fellating Aria?" I thought, stupidly) Looking forward to Citadel! My understanding is that almost everyone around here loved it.
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Feb 11, 2014 11:02
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a slim spar posted:I know some people were unhappy about the "search for clues" stuff in Leviathan, but I'm up to the second segment of that stuff and I really dig this DLC so far. The constant spooky X-Filesy music during these segments, the datapad notes you come across, the way people look at you on that first asteroid mission—it's all good at setting the tone. Or maybe it's just a breath of fresh air because the only other DLC content I've done in 3 is Omega, which, because I hate Aria, was basically loving intolerable from start to finish. (I picked it up just for more Mass Effect content; "it can't be that bad, how much time could it possibly spend fellating Aria?" I thought, stupidly) The only warning I give out for Citadel is that if you're one of those people that gets absolutely infuriated at the Joss Whedon kind of wit there are parts of Citadel that will be intolerable. Don't be one of those people 
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Feb 11, 2014 17:13
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abandon the grim outlook you need for the rest of the game, Citadel is campy as hell the whole way through and that makes it super fun
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Feb 11, 2014 19:40
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Yo, pendejos! Guess who crossing over to that other space franchise?
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Feb 12, 2014 05:20
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JawKnee posted:abandon the grim outlook you need for the rest of the game, Citadel is campy as hell the whole way through and that makes it super fun It's also great as an actual conclusion to the game. Just pretend Citadel takes place 4 or 5 years after the Destroy ending. It works! 
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Feb 12, 2014 09:16
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Blarghalt posted:It's also great as an actual conclusion to the game. Just pretend Citadel takes place 4 or 5 years after the Destroy ending. It works! This honestly is exactly what I was planning on. I've never even played through the Extended Cut endings and I was gonna finish the game and then do Citadel as an epilogue (thinking of it as Shep reminiscing on times gone past if I wind up going with non-Destroy). Thoughts on Leviathan: Positive: Good setpieces. Better, and dramatically more relevant to the plot than, Omega. Squadmates had stuff to say even if it was minor, which was nice, as well as post-mission wrapup. Contained the term "asarisploitation." Negative: Introduces more star systems for me to scan which would normally be a great thing but I think ME3's chased-around-by-reapers mechanic is super dumb All in all: Good times
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Feb 12, 2014 13:04
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Happy to hear that Leviathan might be worth a purchase; I've been thinking about getting it but wanted to hear other people's thoughts first.
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Feb 12, 2014 15:27
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Lotish posted:So yeah, if by three years Liara meant three years, that means 2.5 of them are in downtime, and the first games take place over a combined six months, including the time between the end of ME1 and being blown up in the intro to ME2. The unskippable "dream sequences" in ME3 is far worse than any unskippable in the ME3 intro. Seriously gently caress those stupid bits where I have to run around chasing a drat kid.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:09
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Does the Mass Effect series actually have any themes? Not being facetious but I really can't think of any coherent themes, it's all just surface level these-are-things-that-happen.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:27
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The illusion of choice.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:33
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Vitamin P posted:Does the Mass Effect series actually have any themes?
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Feb 12, 2014 21:37
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monster on a stick posted:The unskippable "dream sequences" in ME3 is far worse than any unskippable in the ME3 intro. Seriously gently caress those stupid bits where I have to run around chasing a drat kid.  "
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Feb 12, 2014 21:45
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Vitamin P posted:Does the Mass Effect series actually have any themes? Initially it seemed like one of the secondary themes to the games was humanities place in the universe. That's still somewhat present outside of the first game, but it seems like it took a back-seat. Really though, the whole idea was meant to capitalize on "THIS IS THE FUTURE LOOK AT THE ALIENS AND SWEET TECHNOLOGY"
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Feb 12, 2014 21:49
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The first game set up some nice themes and ideas, for instance: - Nurture/Nature theme: are all krogans bad or did we make them bad? Same for Rachni, Geth, Saren. - Organics/Synthetics: Are AI lifeforms on par with 'natural' life? Can you trust AI? How do you make a moral code for/about a lifeform as strange as the Geth? See: Quarians vs Geth - Destiny/Choice: The cycle repeats, why? Can we outrun this destiny this time by just trying really hard? See: conversation with Sovereign, Saren - Humans/Aliens: Are some races inherently superior? How can a new species integrate into an existing alliance of species? See: that one racist earth political party - Paragon/Renegade: Is it right to go beyond accepted moral standards to achieve an important goal? Or does this invalidate your goal? See: Cerberus experiments etc. Most of this stuff just got dumped in the sequels, or at least severely downplayed, with paragon/renegade stuff become even more black and white, and the organic/synthetic thing taking the front. The sequels also focused more on "FRIENDS R GUD" as a theme. In the first game, some squadmates barely had personality, which is sharp contrast with 2 where about 75% of the game concerns recruiting new friends and bonding with them.
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Feb 13, 2014 00:28
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"Organics/Synthetics" is one part of the bigger theme in the series, "Creator/Created" or "Parent/Child". The salarians and asari became the "parents" of the krogan by uplifting them, the quarians are the "parents" of the geth, everybody knows about the daddy issues which crop up all over ME2 in some form or another. Right at the top there's the Reapers, who didn't create anyone but did create the overarching framework in which all the characters live and which has defined their lives. They make a point of saying their motive or what they do are impossible for your puny mind to comprehend, and since we're destined to be melted down and turned into a Reaper that could pretty much be read as "you'll understand when you're older".
2house2fly fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 00:46
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Blarghalt posted:It's also great as an actual conclusion to the game. Just pretend Citadel takes place 4 or 5 years after the Destroy ending. It works! I've done two complete playthroughs of the trilogy with different Shepards and I have never even considered NOT finishing by playing the Citadel DLC last of all. Sure there are a few references scattered about to the ongoing war with the Reapers, but mostly you can just ignore it and your final experience of the trilogy can be Shep and all his/her friends gathering at the Normandy, where Shepard declares their times onboard have been "the best" before rolling credits. I can't think of a better way to end the series than that.
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Feb 13, 2014 01:47
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Jerusalem posted:I've done two complete playthroughs of the trilogy with different Shepards and I have never even considered NOT finishing by playing the Citadel DLC last of all. Sure there are a few references scattered about to the ongoing war with the Reapers, but mostly you can just ignore it and your final experience of the trilogy can be Shep and all his/her friends gathering at the Normandy, where Shepard declares their times onboard have been "the best" before rolling credits. I can't think of a better way to end the series than that. It's one of those things that I just can't understand. The writers, sitting there, even considering for a moment any idea that isn't you celebrating a victory with your buddies. It's just so simple and perfect and obvious, and instead they go with all the stuff that happened instead. I mean, bravo for trying or whatever, but I just don't get it. It's like getting to the end of a symphony and deciding it really needs an accordion solo to close things out, because that'll push the medium forward and it's never been done before.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:28
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Crappy Jack posted:It's one of those things that I just can't understand. The writers, sitting there, even considering for a moment any idea that isn't you celebrating a victory with your buddies. It's just so simple and perfect and obvious, and instead they go with all the stuff that happened instead. I mean, bravo for trying or whatever, but I just don't get it. It's like getting to the end of a symphony and deciding it really needs an accordion solo to close things out, because that'll push the medium forward and it's never been done before. Not even just the ending-ending, think about all those unused audio files sitting around in the ME3 files for the fight on Earth. Now think about all the dialogue you get from every single person at the party, or even just your squad + Wrex throughout the main story missions. I actually did think the fight through the city on Earth was fun enough but it all felt so typical, not the climax of three games worth of characters and relationships. The bit in the FOB was nice (minus the turret section) and I wouldn't expect Garrus and Javik to be cracking wise as we slog through the corpses of soldiers and civilians but it still needed more to be something greater than just shooting a bunch of things. Citadel's story and party basically did what people expected the entire end sequence of ME3, from Cerberus HQ to credits, to be. It was just as an action-comedy instead of an action-drama.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:44
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I actually found the dream sequences not that bad. They could have been done better but I could see the why and the style was nice. I also saw an video on youtube that played some audio dialoge. Apparently, you are supposed to hear crew members who died in ME2s suicide mission creepily whispering some of their ME2 dialoge in the background of the dream sequences. A nice touch if true but probably only experienced by few because most people probably saved everyone. ME2 is always held in such high regards but the whole "suicide mission" thing wasn't that great, it was way too easy to just save everyone and probably already happened for most when you were just interested in doing all the loyalty missions for more game content. They should have just randomly killed some crewmembers, with no chance on influencing who died. I know the whole tone of the mass effect series is that you should play it through more than once and take different decisions to see different content, but quite honestly I found all three games had way too many parts that are linear and boring to ever bother with that.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:12
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Kibayasu posted:Not even just the ending-ending, think about all those unused audio files sitting around in the ME3 files for the fight on Earth. When they cut the scene with Jack and her students helping you, they also cut my heart.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:36
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Police Automaton posted:I actually found the dream sequences not that bad. They could have been done better but I could see the why and the style was nice. I also saw an video on youtube that played some audio dialoge. Apparently, you are supposed to hear crew members who died in ME2s suicide mission creepily whispering some of their ME2 dialoge in the background of the dream sequences. A nice touch if true but probably only experienced by few because most people probably saved everyone. ME2 is always held in such high regards but the whole "suicide mission" thing wasn't that great, it was way too easy to just save everyone and probably already happened for most when you were just interested in doing all the loyalty missions for more game content. They should have just randomly killed some crewmembers, with no chance on influencing who died. If they had been able to plan the whole trilogy out in advance, I'd imagine they'd have ended up switching 2 and 3. Rather than having to make a third game that accounts for basically everybody possibly dying at the end of game 2, they instead end game 3 with a suicide mission where you can still win, but you're at risk of the characters you've been spending three games forming relationships with dying horribly at the end. And tonally 3 works much better as a second act, anyway. Really, if you could just switch ME2 and 3, it'd be flawless series. Shep dies activating the Crucible (Destroy, naturally), but is brought back by Cerberus when they discover a hidden Reaper base beyond the Omega Relay to pull together one last suicide mission to wipe out the Reaper threat once and for all.
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Feb 13, 2014 06:06
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Kibayasu posted:The bit in the FOB was nice (minus the turret section)... That particular turret section is the most damning evidence that the people in charge at BioWare don't understand what's good about their own games.
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Feb 13, 2014 07:25
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etjester posted:That particular turret section is the most damning evidence that the people in charge at BioWare don't understand what's good about their own games. I think what they were trying to do with that moment was sound, but it's really egregious when you actually play it.
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Feb 13, 2014 07:37
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It seems like they were trying to impart the precariousness of Hammer squad's situation, which makes sense, but 1 wave of husks is, uh, underwhelming.
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Feb 13, 2014 08:34
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Didn't someone figure out that the turret section at the base is only there to cover a load time for the next sequence?
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Feb 13, 2014 08:51
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Milky Moor posted:Didn't someone figure out that the turret section at the base is only there to cover a load time for the next sequence? There are ways to hide loads that don't conflict with the tone you're trying to set on either side of them. Regardless of intent, following a scene where Jenn Hale almost broke down crying in the recording booth with a turret sequence just reads as a lack of confidence on the part of the developers. I think it was the June 2013 OXM interview where they talked about underestimating the audience's investment, saying things along the lines of "obviously we cared about these characters, but we didn't actually think the players would too." If sincere, this just belies a fundamental misunderstanding of why people are playing your game. Like they thought players would get bored or angry if they had to go five minutes without shooting something. You don't put a turret sequence between this scene and this scene. You just don't.
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Feb 13, 2014 09:31
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monster on a stick posted:The unskippable "dream sequences" in ME3 is far worse than any unskippable in the ME3 intro. Seriously gently caress those stupid bits where I have to run around chasing a drat kid. If you run away from the kid enough times the game will give up and just jump to the dramatic moments where you catch up with the kid. Milky Moor posted:Didn't someone figure out that the turret section at the base is only there to cover a load time for the next sequence? You can beat that turret section without firing a shot. In general for most of those turret sections you can just skip using the turret at all. Those sections are a lot better if you stick to using your powers or melee.
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Feb 13, 2014 11:14
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etjester posted:There are ways to hide loads that don't conflict with the tone you're trying to set on either side of them. Regardless of intent, following a scene where Jenn Hale almost broke down crying in the recording booth with a turret sequence just reads as a lack of confidence on the part of the developers. Yeah, sure, they say that. And yet their official boards were filled with character fan threads.
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Feb 13, 2014 11:44
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Vitamin P posted:Does the Mass Effect series actually have any themes? Whether anyone at Bioware intended for this to happen, I don't know, but does the Mass Effect series make anyone else think a lot about parents and children? There are a lot of parent-child conflicts in the game, which I want to say also includes the relationship between organics and synthetics. I've never really thought of that particular conflict as having much interest if it was about organic molecules versus inorganic molecules. It's most meaningful to me as the relationship between creator and created, and the giver of life to the receiver. Anyone who's been watching True Detective might remember Matthew McIrishname giving a monologue contemplating "the hubris it must take to yank a soul out of nonexistence." Mass Effect is full of hubristic creators. Its own creators might apply. The reasons why they force a new life into the universe are manifold. Lawson made his daughters to be his perfect genetic progeny. The quarians made the geth to serve them. The leviathans made the reapers to sustain life. Mass Effect's response to their hubris is frequently harsh. The answer seems to be that if our parents didn't die, it would be necessary to kill them (or at least surpass them into irrelevancy). Then there's also the absentee dads, Old Man Taylor, Thane, and Aethyta. That they were all featured in Mass Effect 2 had me wondering if someone in Bioware's writing department had some father issues of their own to work through. Shepard the main character is actually the least involved with any parental theme. There's maybe some of it with the fatherly role Anderson plays or the second life Martin Sheen gives Shep, but that's shakey at best. Shepard's strongest role as a creator only really comes through in the synthesis end, yielding to the idea that the creator must be sacrificed for the sake of the creation.
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Feb 13, 2014 12:15
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Caufman posted:Whether anyone at Bioware intended for this to happen, I don't know, but does the Mass Effect series make anyone else think a lot about parents and children? Nah.
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Feb 13, 2014 14:41
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Caufman posted:Whether anyone at Bioware intended for this to happen, I don't know, but does the Mass Effect series make anyone else think a lot about parents and children? There are a lot of parent-child conflicts in the game, which I want to say also includes the relationship between organics and synthetics. Now that you mention it I did kind of get that vibe, yeah
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Feb 13, 2014 16:31
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Intergenerational strife is a frequently recurring motif. The generations in question are sometimes figurative.
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Feb 13, 2014 16:39
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You're all cray-cray in the bray-bray yo.
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Feb 13, 2014 16:43
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Hank Morgan posted:If you run away from the kid enough times the game will give up and just jump to the dramatic moments where you catch up with the kid. It's quicker to just chase the drat kid and get it over with. I personally have a key bound --> ( Name="choose your key", Command="SloMo 5 | OnRelease SloMo 1" ) so that I can run him down and end the sequence in 10-15 secs. It also comes in handy as a fast forward button for other bits of content that you want to speed through. Hank Morgan posted:You can beat that turret section without firing a shot. In general for most of those turret sections you can just skip using the turret at all. Those sections are a lot better if you stick to using your powers or melee. I think the only one that you're forced to do is the Rannoch shuttle sequence during the rescue. Of course you'll have to put up with... "Get on that turret, Commander" "What are you doing, Commander? Get on that turret" ...during the Thessia barricade battle which can get pretty annoying. Actually, all of Thessia from beginning to end is
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Feb 13, 2014 18:33
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I thought Thessia was cool save for the very end. Maybe that's because I brought Javik. The joke is on you human.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:31
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I find the worst things about turret sections in general is I can never shake the feeling that if we just built those things armor wouldn't even be necessary. Why are Brutes such a big deal when a turret can shred them in a few seconds?
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Feb 13, 2014 20:43
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Kibayasu posted:I find the worst things about turret sections in general is I can never shake the feeling that if we just built those things armor wouldn't even be necessary. Why are Brutes such a big deal when a turret can shred them in a few seconds? Aren't those turrets essentially what elcor wear on their backs?
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Feb 13, 2014 20:57
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Caufman posted:Whether anyone at Bioware intended for this to happen, I don't know, but does the Mass Effect series make anyone else think a lot about parents and children? One of the frequent jokes re: Mass Effect 2 was that it should have been called Mass Effect 2: No, gently caress you, Dad! t 
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Feb 13, 2014 21:28
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