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skipdogg posted:Oh. If I'm connecting directly to a VM like that I'm either doing the initial install or troubleshooting something. My expectations are super low, just need to be in it long enough to get it joined to the domain so I can RDP, or fix it so I can RDP. Yeah, I am wanting to make it so you don't have to RDP/VNC into the guest. We have the capability of making the remote console super fast. I think the remote console has been so bad for so long that no one complains about it anymore. Several years ago the Communities forums had a lot of posts about it and the solution everyone gave was using RDP/VNC into the guest. I just think that is kind of pathetic. We should offer a good console to your VM.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:41
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Honestly, I don't think it should be that big of a priority. Connecting with RDP is much better from a management perspective. If I want to connect to a machine I don't have to worry about if it's physical or virtual or where it might life, I just connect to it.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:49
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Yeah, the console doesn't matter much since you should be using RDP or SSH, and I'm actually impressed with how well it already works. It would be way more useful if VMware improved the vSphere web client performance and functionality, but I realize that's not your department.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:56
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Erwin posted:Yeah, the console doesn't matter much since you should be using RDP or SSH, and I'm actually impressed with how well it already works. It would be way more useful if VMware improved the vSphere web client performance and functionality, but I realize that's not your department. Yeah, the web client team didn't even know our team existed for a long time. They just consume our console. They found out about us when they wanted to start using the html5 console. On that front, they actually wanted to move away completely from the plugin console and just use the html5 console. We convinced them they need both, but they should be moving to using the html5 version by default. If you guys are cool with the console, fine. I just wanted to give you the ability to admin your ESX boxes from Starbucks wireless though the VPN and still have a usable console.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:06
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Erwin posted:It would be way more useful if VMware improved the vSphere web client performance and functionality, but I realize that's not your department. This should have been a priority before they decided to sunset the thick client. Yes, it's better, but it still sucks.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:07
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three posted:This should have been a priority before they decided to sunset the thick client. Workstation and Fusion Pro are trying to become the thick client now. Luckily, I don't have to do much admin on my ESX box, so WS works for me. I have luckily been able to avoid the web client.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:10
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I'd like to see VMware release 6.0 without some terrible design choice like the past two releases (5.1 & SSO, 5.5 & Web Client enforcement).
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Feb 11, 2014 22:19
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DevNull posted:Who all here has complained about the remote console performance connecting to ESX? I need some help convincing people that we need to improve it. Send me a PM. My only beef has been that the 5.0 thick client sucks with Windows 8+. I have one client with one standalone ESXi 5 server that I have to log into every now and then and EVERY time I try to console in I get a "vmrc has disconnected trying to reconnect" error. I've literally tried everything I can think of to get it to work but nope! I end up having to connect to the consoles using VMware Workstation which works a treat, thankfully. But literally my only beef. Everything else runs swimmingly 
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Feb 11, 2014 22:20
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DevNull posted:Workstation and Fusion Pro are trying to become the thick client now. Luckily, I don't have to do much admin on my ESX box, so WS works for me. I have luckily been able to avoid the web client. I KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO PULL poo poo poo poo. they better give ESXi "free" Player functionality.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:24
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DevNull posted:Workstation and Fusion Pro are trying to become the thick client now.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:30
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Erwin posted:For vSphere? Or just direct to ESXi? My theory is for stand alone hosts or "free esxi" because even with 500 buck essentials pack you still get the vCenter Appliance.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:31
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:I KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO PULL poo poo poo poo. It isn't VMware trying to pull poo poo. It is the product management of the hosted products trying to catch the ball that the vSphere webUI guys dropped. Every few years some high up leadership will start talking about killing off WS/Fusion. The head PM of WS/Fusion has to convince them that they sell a lot of products and are still useful. Being able to drive ESX would be a usefulness that helps keep the products around. It will never be a full replacement for the webUI, but there is a lot more they could add to make it better. You can't even browse the datastore and add VMs right now. Erwin posted:For vSphere? Or just direct to ESXi? I am not sure. I only ever connect to a single ESX host. It works pretty well basic stuff like powering on your VMs and doing some simple configuration.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:43
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The thing I hate about the console is that sometimes it just doesn't display anything. Then I pop out the console and it works right away, the it displays in both places and plasters a notice across the top. I only use it for initial setup though because the whole client runs like poop on my Pentium 4. If you want to work on anything how about a serviceable thick client. I can't be the only broke company that needs to keep some old virtual machines floating and will be on 5.1u1 until an eventual forklift upgrade that moves us to Hyper-V because it comes with the licenses we will be buying anyway.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:43
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DevNull posted:It isn't VMware trying to pull poo poo. It is the product management of the hosted products trying to catch the ball that the vSphere webUI guys dropped. Every few years some high up leadership will start talking about killing off WS/Fusion. The head PM of WS/Fusion has to convince them that they sell a lot of products and are still useful. Being able to drive ESX would be a usefulness that helps keep the products around. It will never be a full replacement for the webUI, but there is a lot more they could add to make it better. You can't even browse the datastore and add VMs right now. No I don't think vmware wanted to go that way directly I'm sure it was a marketable shitfest for some money grab. That said I wouldn't mind using player or a "free workstation" to manage ESXi environments but they need to do some serious work.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:47
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:No I don't think vmware wanted to go that way directly I'm sure it was a marketable shitfest for some money grab. It won't be a full management solution. Like I said, just some basics that might be good enough if you have something simple to do.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:52
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So FYI if you are planning on updating to vSphere 5.1U1 or U2 from 5.0 don't update Auto Deploy, it breaks itself and takes Update Manager down with it. Went back and updated everything except Auto Deploy and everything works like a charm except for the Web Client, which for some reason needed to be uninstalled and reinstalled before magically working again.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:18
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DevNull posted:Every few years some high up leadership will start talking about killing off WS/Fusion. I j--  what
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Feb 12, 2014 03:33
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Martytoof posted:I j-- Yeah, pretty much the reaction of a lot of engineers at the company too. Almost all of the engineers working on the actual virtualization layer doing their development on Linux Workstation. The few that don't, use Fusion. The team that does WS/Fusion specific code is actually really small, and their products make a lot of money for the few people working on it. I think they are safe for the next several years, even though they aren't pulling in the billions of dollars like vSphere.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:50
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Martytoof posted:I j-- Since Windows7 MyVirtualPC has been a thing, windows 8 hyper-v virtualbox is gaining a lot of ground. And the shear cost of workstation sets people off; it should not cost as much as it does. Compared to what else VMware has going for it Workstation/fusion is small time. Which I think may be the the biggest thing hurting them going forward is the fact they seem to be forgetting the little guys. Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 03:58
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DevNull posted:Who all here has complained about the remote console performance connecting to ESX? I need some help convincing people that we need to improve it. Send me a PM. No problems here either - we regularly run console sessions from Melbourne to Kuala Lumpur over a 10mb WAN (~150ms latency). We used to get all sorts of complaints with KL & India sites -> Melbourne with the Lab Manager web console but since upgrading to vCloud Director 5.1 we have seen a massive improvement in responsiveness, and no more complaints.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:22
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:Which I think may be the the biggest thing hurting them going forward is the fact they seem to be forgetting the little guys. Yeah, people are aware of that. People are working to make the small solutions easier to get up and running. There is more that needs to be done though. Another part of the response to that is "run things in the public cloud." The idea being that a smaller shop can run stuff in the public cloud backed by VMware, and then move to their own private cloud if they grow into it. I am not an expert on that side of things though, so don't take my word for it. I only ever run a single ESX box to play with my GPU in it. GrandMaster posted:No problems here either - we regularly run console sessions from Melbourne to Kuala Lumpur over a 10mb WAN (~150ms latency). Well poo poo, we might have done too well with our last set of improvements. I've talked to some people about other approaches to take, so hopefully I can still make something happen. 10mb is pretty good bandwidth though. I'm looking for people wanting to use crappy coffee shop 512kbps connections and still have a usable desktop. Thanks for all the input though.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:45
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my main complain about the console is that it takes 20 minutes to connect. Once connected, it works great. Luckily it's rare that I need it, but when I do, I do.
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Feb 12, 2014 06:03
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My only complaint is that the client needs to be able to directly connect to the MKS (think that's what it's called) on the ESXi servers... having that be proxied through vCenter would be pretty swell. The new html5 console client is actually pretty useful, once you wade through the laggy web client to get it open. While I'm dreaming, I'd love a suite of management utilities modeled after zfs and zpool from Solaris (lots of functionality laid out in a way that's mostly intuitive). And make it spit out html5 console URLs. Oh and the ability to get a text terminal on unix-like machines (maybe some kind of vmware tools addon that lets esxi connect to a tty), so I never have to rdp into a Windows server and fire up the vi client... or that awful web interface. I think that had this been asked 5 years ago, people would have more complaints... I know I've just gotten used to it.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:55
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So is anyone rocking 4tb disks inside their storage units? Looking to get a backup target for our vSphere environment. 12x4tb in a Dell MD3200i fits the price and size range, but that rebuilt time has to be insane. Edit: Looks like "Dynamic Disk Pools" were made specifically for using the big rear end drives? Moey fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 21:17
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:Since Windows7 MyVirtualPC has been a thing, windows 8 hyper-v virtualbox is gaining a lot of ground. I will slam my dick in a door before I go back to Parallels on my Mac  Workstation is kind of pricey though. Spekaing of Fusion though, I was so loving excited that they finally gave us Mac plebs a "proper" network editor. I was tired of creating networks by editing vmx files and moving things around behind the scenes.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:28
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While we're on the subject of slamming your dick in a door, I was doing an inital audit of a client who literally has 20 ESXi servers but is too cheap to buy a vSphere license. Half my day was spent logging into each server individually until I realized I could use Workstation to connect to them all like some ghetto vSphere.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:32
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Is there an easy way to get serial console access on ESXi / vCenter 5? I don't need a VGA console access usually, just serial to my linux guests would be dandy. Otherwise I RDP in to a windows macine from my mac to run vCenter client and the experience sucks rear end since it tends to repeat keys, especially when typing the root password.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:50
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Agree about Workstation being too pricey. I briefly considered it for some home lab poo poo but Player has more or less all the functionality I need and is free. I know they have coupons from time to time but 5% off of $250 isn't enough to tip me over the edge. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware / Software Crap > Virtualization Megathread V2: While we're on the subject of slamming your dick in a door
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Feb 12, 2014 22:04
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Moey posted:So is anyone rocking 4tb disks inside their storage units? Depends what data are you using this for? Dynamic disks pools help with rebuilds and disk lost, it's a software based raid type. I'd say plan more for IOPS instead of capacity but I don't know what you're using it for. alo posted:My only complaint is that the client needs to be able to directly connect to the MKS (think that's what it's called) on the ESXi servers... having that be proxied through vCenter would be pretty swell. The new html5 console client is actually pretty useful, once you wade through the laggy web client to get it open. It would suck complete rear end to do but you CAN connect to [url=http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1246VM's with a VNC client[/url]; I don't know how ball busting it would be for you to try and fork in a VNC client on top of ESXi. Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 22:10
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I got my employer to buy me Workstation which I'm thankful for. Ironically I paid less for the VCP course at Stanly.edu and it included a year's licensing for Workstation 
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Feb 12, 2014 22:16
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Martytoof posted:I got my employer to buy me Workstation which I'm thankful for. Actually, it includes a year PLUS an option for a second year if I'm not mistaken. I went ahead and used the licenses for ESXi and vCenter on my system so I could play with a fully functional setup on my production box. The additional features available are nice, and I've had some fun with it during my move.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:50
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:Depends what data are you using this for? Dynamic disks pools help with rebuilds and disk lost, it's a software based raid type. Stated in my post but it is for a backup target.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:15
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luminalflux posted:Is there an easy way to get serial console access on ESXi / vCenter 5? I don't need a VGA console access usually, just serial to my linux guests would be dandy. You can add a serial port to the guest, with a specific port, but if you have multiple hosts and vMotion you'll need to punch firewall holes everywhere (since you connect via ESXi management network) and find the host where the guest is at. So if you have a decent size environment you may want to set up a vSPC (virtual serial port concentrator), which you just need to add an outbound firewall rule on the ESXi hosts to let them connect to the vSPC, then your clients connect to that. https://github.com/isnotajoke/vSPC.py if you're looking for a free vSPC server.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:20
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Moey posted:Stated in my post but it is for a backup target. Oh derp go me... I'd suggest looking into a DD160 for backups; however that MD will work. What software are you using to front end it with? Veeam PHDvirt? Since backups even if the raid is running in degraded state seeing as most backup solutions leverage snapshots writes will be minimal. Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 00:04
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Man Archipel looks pretty nice, but I can't get past their decision to use XMPP, when it seems like any MQ would have been a better/more sane choice (aside from being able to "converse" with your VMs, which seems utterly gimmicky).
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Feb 13, 2014 01:15
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:Oh derp go me... Using PHD Virtual for BU software. Not sure what your last sentence there is trying to say? Ballpark what would one of those DD160s go for? Right now the MD units are only around 10k a pop loaded with 4tb disks. And how is the compression when it working with already compressed backus?
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Feb 13, 2014 04:28
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Moey posted:Using PHD Virtual for BU software. Not sure what your last sentence there is trying to say? quote:Ballpark what would one of those DD160s go for? Right now the MD units are only around 10k a pop loaded with 4tb disks. And how is the compression when it working with already compressed backus? A base DD goes for MSRP ~11k on their sight 80TB logical 1.1Tb/min; does dedupe and such; you could easily get a demo unit as EMC is pretty squeezed at the new year. Get a demo unit wait 3/4'ths of the time given to trial the appliance, then speak with your rep. Talk like buying car "everything is great but the price" Also if your license provides take up with your VM/VAR rep and talk about VDP-Advanced edition it is in all reality an avamar appliance http://www.us.emc.com/backup-and-recovery/avamar/avamar.htm Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 04:39
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Moey posted:So is anyone rocking 4tb disks inside their storage units? We run an MD3660f stacked with 36x 3TB disks. Sequential performance is pretty quick, but it really falls over when we run dedupe (commvault). Single stream speeds when rehydrating deduped backups to tape are around the 10mbytes/sec mark since it's effectively random IO at that point. I've spent the last 2 weeks with CV support trying to sort it out, bigger dedupe block sizes (512k instead of 128k), and semi-regular re-baselining of the dedupe databases have helped so far. Do DD devices integrate with any backup product, or do you need to use Networker/Avamar? I'd literally rather top myself before using Networker again, is Avamar any good or as much as a piece of poo poo as Networker?
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Feb 13, 2014 05:30
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Serfer posted:Man Archipel looks pretty nice, but I can't get past their decision to use XMPP, when it seems like any MQ would have been a better/more sane choice (aside from being able to "converse" with your VMs, which seems utterly gimmicky). You should just ignore that. It's almost like a MQ, but less finicky than Rabbit, no dependency on Java like Zero, and arguably more configurable than Qpid. Most importantly, this architectural decision doesn't really affect you as a user if you like the rest.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:42
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Martytoof posted:Ironically I paid less for the VCP course at Stanly.edu and it included a year's licensing for Workstation I was checking that course out, and I can't tell if it online or local only, and/or how much it is. 
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