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Atlas Hugged posted:This is a pretty common sentiment. I've run into it with multiple Taiwanese people. It's basically the default characterization of the Hakka. poo poo, they're literally called 'guests,' being a diaspora without a homeland is pretty much the defining feature.
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Feb 11, 2014 07:19
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Bloodnose posted:Yeah that's what I was thinking. Volunteering for charities and stuff is fine and encouraged, but like protesting the government crosses some lines.
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Feb 11, 2014 07:26
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Spanish Matlock posted:My student once said Hakka are the Jews of Taiwan, because they work much harder than normal people and have a lot of money. It's a well documented fact that Wenzhouren are actually the Jews of China. I first learned this from a dude in Taiwan actually whose ultra-capitalist Wenzhou family escaped the PRC for Taiwan. He thought I was Jewish for whatever reason and thought we could bond over it. I later had a student who started his letter to NYU, "My family is from Wenzhou. As we all know, Wenzhounese are the Jews of china and love money."
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Feb 11, 2014 08:18
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We're talking about Taiwan, not China 
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Feb 11, 2014 09:12
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But Taiwan is the Republic of China! 1911 Never forget   It's not my fault, I just used :china :
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Feb 11, 2014 09:17
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hitension posted:We're talking about Taiwan, not China
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Feb 11, 2014 09:20
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Republic of China???? Has any leader of Taiwan not been a mainlander who moved over post-1949/descended from relatively recently displaced mainlanders? This is a serious question I just became curious about. Also apparently the saying is 东方的犹太人 so that'd include taiwan and japan and all sorts of places!
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Feb 11, 2014 09:42
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Lee Teng-hui was famously the first born-and-bred Taiwanese leader, to the point that he was actually born and grew up in Japanese Taiwan. Chen Shui-bian is also a total benshengren.
sub supau fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 09:51
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^well if you're gonna edit your post then we'll just end up posting the same information... Umm, yeah, Lee Teng-Hui was definitely not a mainlander. Dude probably speaks Japanese better than he does Mandarin. LTH had some bad points but I kinda love him, he's like the grumpy old Taiwanese grandpa I never had. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF6BhvR8MRM Chen Shui-Bian is from Tainan and also a "native" Taiwanese. Most of the bigwigs of the KMT are waishengren/1949ers, yeah, but not all; virtually all of the DPP are not. So that's 2 of 5 presidents in the modern era, and 2 of 3 of the presidents elected democratically. VVV gently caress Yen Chia-Kan, he was just a temporary president and shouldn't count. Do they count that person who was president for 1 day when listing the 44 US presidents? hitension fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 09:58
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hitension posted:So that's 2 of 5 presidents in the modern era, and 2 of 3 of the presidents elected democratically.
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Feb 11, 2014 10:00
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-26129171 Hopefully, they'll just lock these two guys in the room with no titles, no flags, no windows, and a victor will emerge. Same story in traditional , for thems of you that can read it (I can't but, it'd be nice to be able to at some point.)
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Feb 11, 2014 10:25
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Spanish Matlock posted:My student once said Hakka are the Jews of Taiwan, because they work much harder than normal people and have a lot of money. That's odd. I was in Taipei for Hanukkah this year and there wasn't a single Hakka at the temple. Not even at the rabbi's birthday party! 
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Feb 11, 2014 12:01
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While y'all are being an amazing source of info on work related stuff for me in my first year, I have a follow up question about taxes. I'm from the states where they have to have given you your tax papers by now - required by the end of February. When I asked my boss about them, she says the accountant told her that since I was here less than 180 days last year I get nothing back. Confirm/deny? Seems unfair, but then life often is.
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Feb 11, 2014 14:16
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poetrywhore posted:While y'all are being an amazing source of info on work related stuff for me in my first year, I have a follow up question about taxes. *short of being a kabillionaire or whatever I think E: also I think it's actually 185 days or whatever half a year is duckfarts fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 14:19
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Bloodnose posted:That's odd. I was in Taipei for Hanukkah this year and there wasn't a single Hakka at the temple. Not even at the rabbi's birthday party! Its ok, most Jews don't go to temple either. I know I didn't.
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Feb 11, 2014 15:08
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So I met an elementary school teacher tonight and learned more about the 台語 classes. Apparently it is officially referred to as 閩南語 (Southern Min) and there are also classes in 客語 (Hakka); the required languages are Mandarin, English + one more where that other language could be either. Also, in the case of the school where she teaches, there is one student whose mother is Vietnamese, so they also offer a Vietnamese class.url posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-26129171 Good article, thanks hitension fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 15:53
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So after hearing that Hakka are called "guests" in Chinese and seeing their language literally written as "guest language", I'm curious what the etymology of 台客 is.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:26
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The 客 in 台客 Taike should have nothing to do with 客家人(Hakka) ... I looked over the Wiki article on 台客, but it doesn't specify why 客 is used; I can't think of similar words either. http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8F%B0%E5%AE%A2#.E6.97.A9.E6.9C.9F.E6.AD.B7.E5.8F.B2 Basically the 外省人(descendants of 1949ers) living in 眷村(military dependent villages/basically ghettos themselves) came up with this derogatory word to make fun of stereotypically "low class Taiwanese" people wearing flip-flops and chewing betel nut and whatnot as they do. It wasn't mainstream until 小S("Dee Hsu", apparently) started to use it in the 1990s. By now it is somewhat reclaimed as shown by some songs like this one but I would generally avoid using that word as a foreigner considering the history and whatnot. Hakka people are literally called guest people on purpose and there is an English wiki so you have no excuse for not knowing their anthropological background  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_people#Origins.2C_migrations_and_group_identification
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Feb 12, 2014 00:59
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And here I was hoping it was a lumping together of those dirty Taiwanese and Hakka people that the KMT were so much better than.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:43
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2/28 always forget.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:15
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Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that the aboriginal kids learn their mother tongue in elementary schools in their villages. No Taiwanese spoken up there. The government's done a complete 180 from the old days and is actively promoting the preservation of everyone's mother tongue. Taiwanese get 閩南話, Hakka get 客家話, Seediq get Seediq話, and Amis get Amis話, 等等. It's a pretty awesome initiative. I never got the impression that Hakka were seen by other Taiwanese as being "the rich ones" so much as being a big ole bunch of 小氣鬼, but whatever. Anytime I disagree with the consensus of the handful of foreigners that actively post here, I get told that, no, the way you experience Taiwan up in Taipei is the way Taiwan is, end of story. If you say that Taiwanese see Hakka as the rich ones, then that is the truth (as you see it). So whatever, please to enjoy your Taiwan.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:02
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Your post started off informative and pretty normal, why did you have to add that whole ending part with the persecution complex thing? No one's out to get you, it's just you post things like, well, that.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:06
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Seriously, all you had to say was the first part and no one would have jumped down your throat. No one here is claiming to be an expert on Taiwanese ethnic groups and everyone is posting anecdotal experiences. It's the latter part of your post that gets everyone to poo poo down your throat every time you pop up because it's like you just can't help yourself.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:30
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POCKET CHOMP posted:Your post started off informative and pretty normal, why did you have to add that whole ending part with the persecution complex thing? No one's out to get you, it's just you post things like, well, that. Because then it's no fun? 
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Feb 13, 2014 06:00
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Despite you being a jackass, that's pretty much exactly what my student was saying. Hakka work extra hard and are stingy, so they have lots of money. Like Scrooge McDuck. Rich because they know how to pinch an NT until CKS's hair grows back.
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Feb 13, 2014 06:14
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Spanish Matlock posted:Despite you being a jackass, that's pretty much exactly what my student was saying. Hakka work extra hard and are stingy, so they have lots of money. Yep. The stingy stereotype fits with the Hakka = Jew analogy, but I don't think the analogy extends to Hakka controlling banks and the media or all being lawyers and doctors as in the Jew stereotype. Just wanted to clarify the Taiwanese prejudice. It's more about stingy than rich re: Jew analogy.
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Feb 13, 2014 06:28
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Pandemonium posted:Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that the aboriginal kids learn their mother tongue in elementary schools in their villages. No Taiwanese spoken up there. The government's done a complete 180 from the old days and is actively promoting the preservation of everyone's mother tongue. Taiwanese get 閩南話, Hakka get 客家話, Seediq get Seediq話, and Amis get Amis話, 等等. It's a pretty awesome initiative. Also the Aboriginal tribes don't get 話, they get 語, which is arguably better in terms of what it connotes, even if efforts to teach orthographies seem to be middling at best judging by the results. Pandemonium posted:I never got the impression that Hakka were seen by other Taiwanese as being "the rich ones" so much as being a big ole bunch of 小氣鬼, but whatever. quote:Anytime I disagree with the consensus of the handful of foreigners that actively post here, I get told that, no, the way you experience Taiwan up in Taipei is the way Taiwan is, end of story. Pandemonium posted:Yep. The stingy stereotype fits with the Hakka = Jew analogy, but I don't think the analogy extends to Hakka controlling banks and the media or all being lawyers and doctors as in the Jew stereotype. Just wanted to clarify the Taiwanese prejudice. It's more about stingy than rich re: Jew analogy. e: On the Aboriginal languages thing, any idea if people can use Aboriginal languages, like, in the Yuan or whatever? sub supau fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 06:28
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Gonna be in Taipei Saturday for 15 days. Gonna eat all your food and possibly drink all your beer. Staying at JV's Hostel and will have a smart phone on me. Planning on possibly getting some aquarium plants if I can find them. Particularly I've checked pretty much everywhere in Korea for Purple bamboo. Gonna see if any places in Taipei have it. Any of you keep aquariums, or know where I should look?
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Feb 13, 2014 08:27
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I don't keep any kind of aquarium or anything, but there are a ton of aquariumy stores along the road that runs along the front of Songshan Airport IIRC, they might be a good place to start.
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Feb 13, 2014 08:30
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Semi-related, but I love how "stores of the same type" all congregate in one place in Taipei. This has culminated in a road in Wanhua where all of the shops sell exotic birds.
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Feb 13, 2014 08:45
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Indigenous chat: by complete coincidence I was just handed a 2,300-word "advertorial" for the Council of Indigenous People to edit. I'll let you know if it clarifies anything. Edit: this was written by one of the best writers here but instead of saying shaman he said wizard, which I really wish I could keep in. Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 09:02
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Eifert Posting posted:Gonna be in Taipei Saturday for 15 days. Gonna eat all your food and possibly drink all your beer. Staying at JV's Hostel and will have a smart phone on me. Here's the place TetsuoTW was talking about, I used to pass by there all the time: http://goo.gl/maps/FcJGF Atlas Hugged posted:Semi-related, but I love how "stores of the same type" all congregate in one place in Taipei. This has culminated in a road in Wanhua where all of the shops sell exotic birds.
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Feb 13, 2014 09:19
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It's a smart idea to put similar stores next to each other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jILgxeNBK_8 Yeahh, all those Econ classes are coming in handy for these internet arguments.
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Feb 13, 2014 10:28
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I'm not going to pretend I know anything about economics, but it seems like that only works for no-name shops and not for franchises. Sticking a Burger King next to a McDonald's in Taiwan is just asking to go out of business.
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Feb 13, 2014 10:50
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And yet two 7-11s and a Family Mart on the same block all seem to do just fine.
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Feb 13, 2014 11:27
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It's baffling. I think it all has to do with vertical housing and how absolutely integral convenience stores are to society. Why go to THAT 7-11 when I can go to THIS 7-11.
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Feb 13, 2014 11:35
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I have 3 Family Marts on the street by my place, all within eyeshot of each other. The single 7-11 across from one of them is still better than all of them.
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Feb 13, 2014 11:57
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Anybody interested in catching some pingxi sky lanterns tomorrow night?
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Feb 13, 2014 11:58
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Spanish Matlock posted:Anybody interested in catching some pingxi sky lanterns tomorrow night? Yes, let's release some goon lanterns. ....___ ../......\ ./.........\ (.低稅萬歲) .\........./ ..\____/
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Feb 13, 2014 14:15
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Hey invaluable informants. It's time for Baby's First Scooter. I know almost nothing about them and don't want to buy blind. I'm 5'11" and weigh a buck sixty five, so I don't reckon I need anything small. I'm trying to be able to take it up mountains on the weekends or on road trips to beaches, so maybe 150cc is better? But this is my first scooter (lots of bicycle and car experience but automatic not manual transmissions and no motorcycle experience) and I hear lighter bikes are better for the hard part of the test (which one person tells me is going like 30 without putting your feet down, and another says is driving between some narrowly placed poles). So my question is, what sort of scooter (beyond the obvious "second hand") do you reckon I'd need? Actually, I'll take any and all scooter advice, not just what kind but test tips, whatever you got. Edit: except pandemonium who will just tell me scooters are terrible and scooter drivers are terrible and I'm terrible for trying to drive one.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:26
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