PeterWeller posted:Haha, that's actually where I got the idea. I figured if Bioware, with all their resources, could get away with using the same map over and over again for Baldur's Gate's extensive sewers, I could get away with doing the same for Neverwinter. I never start them in the same entrance/room and change little things here and there, but it really helps from a DMing perspective--if the players go into the sewers and have an encounter for any reason, I have a map ready for them. I'm just curious why your players are constantly going into the sewers.
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 11:06 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:30 |
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I'm picturing four bullywug monks.
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 11:11 |
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Is it a terrible idea to mix in Monster Manual 1 monsters with Essentials (I have the Threats to the Nentir Vale book)? I'm running my first 4e campaign starting this Sunday, and my possible party of 6(!) is going to wake up in a kobold prison; when they get outside, they'll run into a few more kobolds arguing with some other group of humanoids about how much to pay for the prisoners. I'd be using some lvl 1-2 enemies from the Nentir Vale for the negotiating party, and the kobolds from MM1. I can re-do the kobolds with MM3 math probably, but at first glance, having the kobolds be a little harder to bring down, even though they do less damage, seems like an interesting encounter mashup?
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 18:10 |
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SeraphSlaughter posted:Is it a terrible idea to mix in Monster Manual 1 monsters with Essentials (I have the Threats to the Nentir Vale book)? I'm running my first 4e campaign starting this Sunday, and my possible party of 6(!) is going to wake up in a kobold prison; when they get outside, they'll run into a few more kobolds arguing with some other group of humanoids about how much to pay for the prisoners. I'd be using some lvl 1-2 enemies from the Nentir Vale for the negotiating party, and the kobolds from MM1. I can re-do the kobolds with MM3 math probably, but at first glance, having the kobolds be a little harder to bring down, even though they do less damage, seems like an interesting encounter mashup? There is a reason why MM3 math replaced MM1 math. Creatures with lots of HP that do small amounts of damage do not make for interesting encounters, they make for boring slogs. Please do not use pre-MM3 monsters without converting their stats.
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 18:21 |
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Klungar posted:There is a reason why MM3 math replaced MM1 math. Creatures with lots of HP that do small amounts of damage do not make for interesting encounters, they make for boring slogs. Please do not use pre-MM3 monsters without converting their stats. I think this overstates the case. Many of them are fine right out of the box (solos and soldiers being the main problem children).
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 18:25 |
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Klungar posted:There is a reason why MM3 math replaced MM1 math. Creatures with lots of HP that do small amounts of damage do not make for interesting encounters, they make for boring slogs. Please do not use pre-MM3 monsters without converting their stats. That's what I thought. I have the Monster Match Cruncher bookmarked + "MM3 on a business card" saved, so it shouldn't be a huge timesink.
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 18:25 |
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SeraphSlaughter posted:Is it a terrible idea to mix in Monster Manual 1 monsters with Essentials (I have the Threats to the Nentir Vale book)? I'm running my first 4e campaign starting this Sunday, and my possible party of 6(!) is going to wake up in a kobold prison; when they get outside, they'll run into a few more kobolds arguing with some other group of humanoids about how much to pay for the prisoners. I'd be using some lvl 1-2 enemies from the Nentir Vale for the negotiating party, and the kobolds from MM1. I can re-do the kobolds with MM3 math probably, but at first glance, having the kobolds be a little harder to bring down, even though they do less damage, seems like an interesting encounter mashup? If you have Compendium access or Monster Vault, that's even better, but really - they work out of the box. It's only at mid-Heroic and later that you REALLY start to notice.
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 18:52 |
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dwarf74 posted:If you are at Level 1 or 2, just stay away from MM1 Elites & Solos and you'll be fine. I might pick up Monster Vault in a month or two when I have some more cash on hand, I blew a good portion of my disposable budget on Player's Handbook 2 (roommates who are in on it really wanted to play Bard + Warden) and Threats to the Nentir Vale. I'm sure I can pull enough level 1 encounters out of there for the first month or two we're playing, and since we're only doing it once or twice a month, I don't expect us to get into Heroic for a while. But it's good to know I can leave a few hp-buffed monsters in if they look ok at first blush. Great, now I can focus on a few different ways to tie "kidnapped by kobold sellswords" into the larger plot-arc I have planned.
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 19:04 |
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homullus posted:I think this overstates the case. Many of them are fine right out of the box (solos and soldiers being the main problem children). I once played a session where we fought a level 7 solo soldier MM1 Red Dragon... at level 3. After a many rounds of whiffing and plinking away at the target, the DM just cut straight to the end and that was that.
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# ? Feb 11, 2014 19:39 |
Klungar posted:There is a reason why MM3 math replaced MM1 math. Creatures with lots of HP that do small amounts of damage do not make for interesting encounters, they make for boring slogs. Please do not use pre-MM3 monsters without converting their stats. Just going to point out that, while I agree with the math stuff, I absolutely hate the MM3 and onward's monster blocks and wish they'd kept the original layout. This might just come down to personal preference, but it really bugs me.
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# ? Feb 12, 2014 00:02 |
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It's worth noting that the scaling problems are less pronounced at level 1, and more so the longer you play, so it may not seem bad early on but it will do later...
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# ? Feb 12, 2014 00:17 |
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thespaceinvader posted:It's worth noting that the scaling problems are less pronounced at level 1, and more so the longer you play, so it may not seem bad early on but it will do later... Yeah, after comparing the Kobolds I want as they appear in MM1 (Skirmisher, Slinger, and Dragonshield), they are actually easier in MM1 than if I make a similar creature in the 4e Monster Math Cruncher. 1 or 2 less HP, and slightly less in the defense area. Not so much for the level 3 controller that's arguing with more kobolds outside.
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# ? Feb 12, 2014 03:31 |
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I need to roll up a lvl3 gimmick character for a short play session tomorrow night. Our group is going to give roll20.net a try to see how it'd work for our main campaign and we're rolling up some throw away characters to use. Can anybody recommend a fun gimmick to use for a lvl3 caster?
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# ? Feb 12, 2014 08:03 |
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MMD3 posted:I need to roll up a lvl3 gimmick character for a short play session tomorrow night. Our group is going to give roll20.net a try to see how it'd work for our main campaign and we're rolling up some throw away characters to use.
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# ? Feb 12, 2014 08:17 |
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This should do the trick nicely, thank you!
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# ? Feb 12, 2014 09:24 |
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I think the only lowish level monster that I really prefer the new version of is definitely the orc. Free attack at it's death throes is light years more interesting than spending a healing surge, which is basically just more HP.
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# ? Feb 12, 2014 11:18 |
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Rexides posted:I think the only lowish level monster that I really prefer the new version of is definitely the orc. Free attack at it's death throes is light years more interesting than spending a healing surge, which is basically just more HP. For the record, though, the orc leader-type from MM1 grants his allies the same sort of death-throe ability within a certain area. The Warrior's Surge thing is one I think would be good for 2-hit monsters.
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# ? Feb 12, 2014 11:25 |
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MMD3 posted:I need to roll up a lvl3 gimmick character for a short play session tomorrow night. Our group is going to give roll20.net a try to see how it'd work for our main campaign and we're rolling up some throw away characters to use. I'll be in that same game. Since this worked so well for mmd3, does anyone have a lvl3 tank I could try?
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 00:24 |
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Lurdiak posted:I'm just curious why your players are constantly going into the sewers. Sewers are city based campaign's most obvious dungeon. But seriously, their first adventure was clearing out a nest of kobolds led by a white dragon (I know, I know, the most cliched 4E adventure possible, but new players should get to beat up a dragon in their first adventure). Later, their hunt for the leader of a Cyricist cult led them on a chase through the sewers. And most recently, they tracked a group of wererats to their lair in, you guessed it, the sewers. A lot of hooks in the Neverwinter campaign book involve the city's sewers.
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 00:35 |
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Are there any good commonly accepted alternative ritual casting rules, maybe ones that use a different limiting circumstance than components? I'm not that worried about the usual concern that you're mechanically better off saving up for items, mostly I just don't want to bother with the concept of components because it ends up as either "no you can't cast this you didn't pick up enough components three sessions ago" or gets handwaved away anyway. Playing a bit more fast and loose with the casting times would be nice too, my players usually feel they have time, just not exactly ten minutes, and then just don't bother with the ritual. Playing more fast and loose with anything, really. Also how is it supposed to work out that half the items you find are supposed to be common when there are only like 10% common items, is everyone just supposed to end up with Bracers of Mighty Striking? Sod that I'm making my own list. (Using PHB/AV/___Power books only though, maybe it's different with items from Essentials stuff.)
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 10:33 |
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My Lovely Horse posted:Are there any good commonly accepted alternative ritual casting rules, maybe ones that use a different limiting circumstance than components? I'm not that worried about the usual concern that you're mechanically better off saving up for items, mostly I just don't want to bother with the concept of components because it ends up as either "no you can't cast this you didn't pick up enough components three sessions ago" or gets handwaved away anyway. Playing a bit more fast and loose with the casting times would be nice too, my players usually feel they have time, just not exactly ten minutes, and then just don't bother with the ritual. Playing more fast and loose with anything, really.
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 11:26 |
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I've generally handled it by having pay-as-you-go rituals. Like, the player notes 'ritual components' on their sheet but the actual value is unstated unless and until rituals are performed.
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 17:34 |
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For magic items I plan to introduce a group of astral-faring githzerai merchants who buy and sell magical items using their own currency (maybe residium?), so rituals and magic items will run on completely different resources and there won't be an opportunity cost between them.
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 18:04 |
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PeterWeller posted:Sewers are city based campaign's most obvious dungeon. And THIS is why every video game has a sewer level. It's all a rich tapestry.
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 18:16 |
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So Holy poo poo, guys. I ran my players through the first part of the first Zeitgeist adventure last night. loving amazing. One of those sessions that makes me thrilled to be a DM.
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 19:42 |
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dwarf74 posted:So Holy poo poo, guys. I ran my players through the first part of the first Zeitgeist adventure last night. loving amazing. One of those sessions that makes me thrilled to be a DM. After all the nice things you've said about it, I went and looked at it and picked it up, since it was not that expensive. Could you say more about what you like so much? Because my ultra-cursory read of it is that it's really meant for players who will actually read the "players should read this" sections and enjoy getting newspaper clipping handouts and such. Those things are exciting to me, but it definitely requires a certain level of investment.
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:15 |
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My Lovely Horse posted:Are there any good commonly accepted alternative ritual casting rules, maybe ones that use a different limiting circumstance than components? I'm not that worried about the usual concern that you're mechanically better off saving up for items, mostly I just don't want to bother with the concept of components because it ends up as either "no you can't cast this you didn't pick up enough components three sessions ago" or gets handwaved away anyway. Playing a bit more fast and loose with the casting times would be nice too, my players usually feel they have time, just not exactly ten minutes, and then just don't bother with the ritual. Playing more fast and loose with anything, really. My groups been using a rituals per day system. It's 3/4/5 by tier for no cost, with any free ones you get from ritual mastery feats being added on. Works pretty well, haven't really needed more.
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:35 |
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homullus posted:After all the nice things you've said about it, I went and looked at it and picked it up, since it was not that expensive. Could you say more about what you like so much? Because my ultra-cursory read of it is that it's really meant for players who will actually read the "players should read this" sections and enjoy getting newspaper clipping handouts and such. Those things are exciting to me, but it definitely requires a certain level of investment. The opener of the first adventure took a lot of prep on my end, but it played out fantastically. They were very involved and on edge for almost two hours of play time trying to make sure the steamship they were on didn't blow up. At one point, they were six rounds from explosion. It was a nice change of pace because it's not often that "killing the bad guys" is the least important thing you should be doing. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 13, 2014 |
# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:41 |
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Echophonic posted:My groups been using a rituals per day system. It's 3/4/5 by tier for no cost, with any free ones you get from ritual mastery feats being added on. Works pretty well, haven't really needed more. Probably gonna start doing this, and any past that takes healing surges. Might get my players to start actually using riruals. Some classes get Ritual Casting for free. Anyone forsee any issues with letting all classes the option of taking Ritual Caster, Practiced Study or the Alchemy one for free?
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# ? Feb 13, 2014 23:46 |
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Prison Warden posted:Probably gonna start doing this, and any past that takes healing surges. Might get my players to start actually using riruals. My 2 cents would be to give folks one free, to be on par with classes that already get one free. Or give 2 free (with one extra for classes that get one as a feature)
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 00:00 |
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Maxwell Lord posted:And THIS is why every video game has a sewer level. It's all a rich tapestry. I grew up in NYC with all its attendant sewer-based urban legends, so the whole thing has always seemed quite natural to me. Of course the villains' lairs are accessed via the sewer. In Eberron, you may add abandoned lightning rail tunnels to the mix.
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 04:57 |
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Error 404 posted:My 2 cents would be to give folks one free, to be on par with classes that already get one free. Or give 2 free (with one extra for classes that get one as a feature) Can we expand that to have a new track of non-combat feat slots on levels you don't get a normal feat were you get to pick a non-combat one? Things like rituals, skill training/focus feats, stuff like that? Sort of how the game already silos powers into attack and utility (although utility powers do have combat applications). Has anyone tried something like that?
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 11:44 |
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quote:ritual ideas Really I think I like healing surges best because they're always an available resource, but you have to pace yourself. It just might get tough replicating the effect that rituals have when you get higher in levels, when you have so much money the early ones are essentially free. But then again that was an aspect I never really liked when we did use components. "That oracle was bloody useless, let's summon another three."
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 12:48 |
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My Lovely Horse posted:Really I think I like healing surges best because they're always an available resource, but you have to pace yourself. It just might get tough replicating the effect that rituals have when you get higher in levels, when you have so much money the early ones are essentially free. But then again that was an aspect I never really liked when we did use components. "That oracle was bloody useless, let's summon another three." Easy enough to imitate: rituals cost 2 healing surges to cast. Rituals 5 levels below you cost 1 the first time each day they're each cast, and 2 after that. Rituals 10 levels below are free the first time you cast each one each day, otherwise 1 surge. You might want to allow characters to donate surges towards spell casting even if they're not the caster though. Also this doesn't replace the cost for item creation rituals, of course.
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 13:28 |
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Hokay, so, I got roped into GMing some Dungeons and dragons for a group at the local gaming club. I picked 4th edition because I'm the most familiar with that and 3.5 and let's face it, 3.ANYTHING is a pain in the neck to teach to players unfamiliar with the system.. and out of the four players I currently have, three qualify. (Trying to hunt for a fith, I have a few weeks to get everything built up.) Since most of the players are new to the system I'm running PHB1 only - not out of grognardism, I love having more options, but I don't want to overwhelm the newbies. If they end up enjoying the game and want to later branch out, I'll be all up for the idea. I decided to build my own adventure/campaign since I've had some ideas for ages and all the pre-made adventures I've found are, well, the quality's come up before. quote:Brief Synopsis: The PCs are traveling with a merchant caravan to Glimwall, a small mountainside mining village. On arrival, they find the town surrounded by camps of belligerent Orcs - and the town itself ravaged by a plague that's tainted their water supply. The PCs will have to descend into the depths of the silver mine the town was named for and neutralize the source of the plague in order to save Glimwall. The adventure's going to be divided roughly into three separate sections, each with its own themes and challenges. quote:Part the first: Glimwall and its environs. quote:Part the Second: Upper Mines quote:Part the Three: Lower Mines, Where the Plot gets Back on Track At the end of the adventure the players will have, hopefully, netted themselves a handy contact (Gregor will be extemely thankful and will make for a convenient ally when it comes to getting certain rituals performed or equipment crafted), the thankfulness of the entire town, some good loot and their first taste of feeling like big drat heroes. Of course, in due time they'll be haunted by the mad shaman's last words - that the deaths he was bringing were a mercy compared to the future..
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 14:37 |
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Have you considered going with the Essentials classes to make it even easier for them?
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 15:28 |
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Iiii have been so long out of the loop with DnD, I don't even know Essentials, to be perfectly honest!
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 15:53 |
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I am not entirely convinced that the Essentials classes are simpler than the old ones. Maybe they get more damage output with fewer tactical considerations, but I don't think that they make it easier to look at your character sheet and decide the best possible course of action*. My advice is to make sure that each character has one at-will power that's basically basic attack++. Most classes have one of those, it's either a +2 to the attack roll or slightly more damage. Just strike out the name and call it "Hit a Thing", and tell them to use it when they don't know what to do each round. *with the exception of defender aura which feels easier to manage for new people than the various marking mechanics, but it would be better to play monsters like in 3E (go for the fighter) until the players are more comfortable with their role mechanics.
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 16:09 |
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One of the problems I always had with Essentials characters (particularly Martials) is that they require characters to immediately grock Melee Basic, which is not as Basic as it appears. I have one friend that I tried to include as a guest in 2 different sessions of my 4e game. AD&D reigns supreme in his memory and while I wouldn't call him groggy he does have a certain willful ignorance about him with regards to newer editions. Anyway, he said he wanted to play something 'simple' on two occasions. The first time we made him a Monk and he loved the poo poo out of it. Power cards immediately transmitted what he was supposed to do. Play a card, do a thing. Our experience with the Slayer was radically different. "So I have to activate a stance and then... attack? Am I like a toaster? Do I have to be in bagel mode before I can attack?" It requires fewer choices but it's still loaded with jargon. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Feb 14, 2014 |
# ? Feb 14, 2014 17:42 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:30 |
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:Easy enough to imitate: rituals cost 2 healing surges to cast. Rituals 5 levels below you cost 1 the first time each day they're each cast, and 2 after that. Rituals 10 levels below are free the first time you cast each one each day, otherwise 1 surge. Things like Raise Dead and Remove Disease/Affliction probably shouldn't have a surge cost either. The risk on those is plenty big enough. As another flavour thing I'm planning to introduce specific ritual requirements. Nothing that keeps them from casting the ritual at any time, just minor stuff. For example, the Invoker naturally has Hand of Fate, and I'd require them to have a hand-shaped object ready for that - could be as simple as a chalk drawing, a glove or five sticks, but they have to set up something to call the divination spirit or whatever into. (Secretly I'm planning shenanigans of the sort that when they keep a special glove around only for the ritual, after X castings the spirit stays in the object and runs around being a nuisance.)
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# ? Feb 14, 2014 18:25 |