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Sampatrick posted:Please cite your sources, Riso, I'd like to read about all these awful things you say that Muslims did. How do you feel about their contributions to math and science and all that jazz? The Muslems stole it during a razzia
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Feb 13, 2014 20:50
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Farecoal posted:You said Arabs treated their slaves worse than Europeans Arab slavery was mostly about stealing women, the men in the villages they raided were often simply killed. The few taken, usually castrated. The children born to slave women, mostly killed. Slavery duration: 1400 years Trans-sahara and East African transport death rate: 80-90% Western slavery meanwhile was interested in men for labour, they were allowed to marry and have children. Slavery duration: 300 years Atlantic transport death rate: 10% So yes, back breaking labour with a possibility of death in the West is what I'd consider much preferable to guaranteed death under Arab slave masters. http://www.africanecho.co.uk/africanechonews5-sept29.html quote:1) If you're thinking about that "Pompey solved piracy" thing, that was achieved locally in the eastern Mediterranean by burning down every port town suspected of harboring pirates. The great War on Piracy was as effective as US policies are today - pirates were back every time there was civil war or instability in Rome 1) Alright, it wasn't entirely gone, but greatly reduced and not much of a problem anymore until the fall of Western Rome. 2) Rome never waged a religious war, the slaves were war bounty, and the express purposed of the wars was always to secure the borders and/or expand. 3) Why don't you try the Pax Romana, 27 BC-180 AD. Riso fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 20:51
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The pax Romana wasn't all that stable. Its just that Gibbons was a huge fanboy and it stuck. Also I know you are trying to make a distinction with the slavery thing but I don't see it. Hell the romans burned churches and librarys. They didn't give one gently caress if you resisted you going down hard.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:58
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The Pax Romana had multiple civil wars in it.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:00
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Ignoring pretty much everything else you posted, did you even look at this thing's citations? They used loving answers.com and an evangelical Christian site, which on further inspection, is pretty much racist bullshit. Seriously, this is not a citation.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:01
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Can we get back to talking about Paradox games here? Has anything been said about Runemaster yet?
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Feb 13, 2014 21:07
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StashAugustine posted:Can we get back to talking about Paradox games here? Has anything been said about Runemaster yet? Yeah, Runemaster is pretty much racist because it ignores how Muslims were the reason Vikings ever had to kill anyone. EDIT: I'm sorry this isn't helping with the derail, can we totes talk about whatever's come out of Runemaster now? The website is still just the "Sign up for News that might come eventually we guess!"
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Feb 13, 2014 21:07
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Riso posted:They also treated their slaves significantly worse than the Europeans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Free_State Riso please gently caress off. Riso posted:1) Alright, it wasn't entirely gone, but greatly reduced and not much of a problem anymore until the fall of Western Rome. The time period you mentioned has atleast 2 civil wars I can think off the top of my head if you count the year of 4 emperors as a single civil war. It also includes 3 religious wars of genocide against the Jews that killed over a million Jews and shattered the Jewish presence in the Mediterranean for a literal millennium. uPen fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 21:10
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Jesus Christ people is this thread about a video game or are is it a thread that should be moved to D&D? Serious question.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:26
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Louisgod posted:Jesus Christ people is this thread about a video game or are is it a thread that should be moved to D&D? Serious question. Actually it isn't really even about a video game, this is the generic Paradox dev studio love thread.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:28
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Riso posted:Arab slavery was mostly about stealing women, the men in the villages they raided were often simply killed. The few taken, usually castrated. The children born to slave women, mostly killed. Oh whoops is this a history book? Guy Halsall, Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West p. 57 posted:We cannot, however, end our discussion simply by stressing the fluidity of Roman ideas of barbarism, the permeability of the frontier between Roman and non-Roman, and the fact that the Romans divided the Empire's inhabitants into ethnic groups just as they did the barbarians. The idea of the barbarian as non-human could find chilling expression. Captured barbarians could be thrown to the beasts. As ferocious sub-humans it was only fitting that wild animals should prey upon them. When the Empire wished to underline its political supremacy the army was unleashed upon the people beyond the frontiers with instructions to kill everyone they could catch, regardless of age or sex. The idea of the barbarian was mutable and rhetorical but, as with all ethnic identities, the rhetoric could be translated into a horrific reality for the people considered to have 'nothing human beyond their limbs and voices' and we must not forget that. To do so denies the barbarians their humanity just as securely as did Roman ideology. Oh well it's fine it's not like the Romans didn't bring peace and stability and killed their slaves. Pax Romana, right?
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Feb 13, 2014 21:29
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Alchenar posted:Actually it isn't really even about a video game, this is the generic Paradox dev studio love thread. Oh well I Am A Bad Mod it seems but still! Seems the discussion here is more suited for D&D than Games.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:30
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Louisgod posted:Oh well I Am A Bad Mod it seems but still! Seems the discussion here is more suited for D&D than Games. It wouldn't really fit there either, there is an ask/tell thread for ancient history. It wouldn't go well but it would technically fit in.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:31
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Louisgod posted:Oh well I Am A Bad Mod it seems but still! Seems the discussion here is more suited for D&D than Games. Maybe everyone could just stop arguing with the guy who thinks slavery is only bad when Muslims do it and we'll be okay-dokay here in Games.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:33
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I never made the argument slavery itself is justified. Get hosed.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:53
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:What? Indeed, I'm pretty sure army movement doesn't optimize for speed in it's pathfinding. I had read as much on the Paradox boards, and one day got bored enough to try it out for myself. I was taking armies of equal size, neither with generals, and having them race from Kiev to Moscow and back. I let the game decide a path for one army, and I picked one that just looked shorter, and sure enough my manually assigned course seemed to go faster. Of course, this was never a rigorous trial, and I didn't bother to write anything down or prove any of this, so queue Wiz rolling in to tell me I'm full of poo poo. Wouldn't be the first time. 
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Feb 13, 2014 21:58
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Indeed, I'm pretty sure army movement doesn't optimize for speed in it's pathfinding. I had read as much on the Paradox boards, and one day got bored enough to try it out for myself. I was taking armies of equal size, neither with generals, and having them race from Kiev to Moscow and back. I let the game decide a path for one army, and I picked one that just looked shorter, and sure enough my manually assigned course seemed to go faster. Yeah the pathfinding algorithm is actually pretty crude and won't always deliver optimal results, especially in weird areas like around the Red Sea or over very long distances. Usually it does though.
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Feb 13, 2014 22:00
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PittTheElder posted:Indeed, I'm pretty sure army movement doesn't optimize for speed in it's pathfinding. I had read as much on the Paradox boards, and one day got bored enough to try it out for myself. I was taking armies of equal size, neither with generals, and having them race from Kiev to Moscow and back. I let the game decide a path for one army, and I picked one that just looked shorter, and sure enough my manually assigned course seemed to go faster. Often times you notice that if you move the army to a province a bit away and then shift-click to the original province, they'll take different paths to the destination and back.
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Feb 13, 2014 22:01
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Has anyone else tried the HoI3 Random map mod? I've found its full abandoning of history and embrace of the arcade to provide some welcome replay value to tide me over until HoI4 arrives. It generates vaguely-coherant borders between competitively sized nations who start off on par similarly under-armed and hold fairly deep claims on all their neighbours. The absence of any countries with as huge a starting advantage in size or numbers makes for much more competitive buildup and diplomatic maneuvering as everyone scrambles to secure their borders and be the first to snap up their cores. If anyone is mad enough to indulge HoI3 multiplayer, the mod would probably suit it well. And it leads to situations like this where the Federal Republic of Germany leads its dear allies of Italy, Cuba, Tanu Tuva, Tibet, and Communist China, in the crusade to liberate our ancestral rocks at Gibraltar from the unlawful occupation of the Hungarians. Not pictured: Shining Beacon of Democracy Afro-Norway, and Champions of International Socialism in Bulgarian India.
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Feb 13, 2014 22:07
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Westminster System posted:Fascists are good upstanding people. Like Mussolini, what did he ever do wrong?
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Feb 13, 2014 22:07
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A_Raving_Loon posted:Has anyone else tried the HoI3 Random map mod? I tried it and found that yes, it does work well to create a more "fair" challenge, but the complete disconnect between country names and locations made it way too uncomfortable for me after a while. Invading West Siberian Korea with Ukrainian France  made my head hurt. It would've been nice if there was an option to keep the tags in more sane geography.
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Feb 13, 2014 22:11
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Yeah let's talk about videogames What's up with this? Just a typo in the file? (Might actually have been fixed by now)
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Feb 13, 2014 22:23
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StashAugustine posted:Can we get back to talking about Paradox games here? Has anything been said about Runemaster yet? There's a Dev diary: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?755086-Runemaster-Development-Diary-1-Our-Vision Some guy also made a thing to http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?755590-Runemaster-Dev-Tracker
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Feb 13, 2014 22:34
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See, what I'm waiting for about Runemaster is a dev diary to explain just what you guys mean by "procedural generated worlds". Like, just how procedurally generated are we talking? Set-piece locations with randomized wilderness & minor-dungeons? If terrain is going to play into how combat goes, then I take it that combat's fought on the same 'board' as the one used for travelling? Or am I totally wrong and it's Heroes of Might & Magic/King's Bounty-esque maps. And emergent storytelling, that's some CK2 stuff right there. I wonder how it will work if you guys are going for an underlying narrative (or is emergent storytelling just advertising words for dialogue choices ala Mass Effect/KOTOR/Fallout/etc.. I know you cannot answer any of these questions, though. I'll just wait for more substantial info before I speculate too much.
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Feb 13, 2014 23:12
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When the Runemaster game page on pdxplaza says release date as "winter", does that mean this winter or the next?
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Feb 13, 2014 23:47
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I am experiencing Hype over Runemaster.nutranurse posted:See, what I'm waiting for about Runemaster is a dev diary to explain just what you guys mean by "procedural generated worlds". Like, just how procedurally generated are we talking? Set-piece locations with randomized wilderness & minor-dungeons? If terrain is going to play into how combat goes, then I take it that combat's fought on the same 'board' as the one used for travelling? Or am I totally wrong and it's Heroes of Might & Magic/King's Bounty-esque maps. Wiz posted:Yeah the pathfinding algorithm is actually pretty crude and won't always deliver optimal results, especially in weird areas like around the Red Sea or over very long distances. Usually it does though. *e*^^^^^^ they mean Q4 2014.
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Feb 13, 2014 23:47
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I just started my first proper HoI3 game. I have a fair amount of experience with DH (especially KR) so I know about deploying units and stuff. My problem right now is that the OOB just seems completely impenetrable at first. Do I just deploy my troops on the borders like I usually would and assign them to the nearest HQ? And if I go to war, do I just keep the HQs a few provinces back so that they don't engage in combat but are still within command range? What's the point of those fleets and aircraft directly attached to the highest-order HQ? Why aren't those in a lower level? (And what's the point of that second OOB screen that just mirrors the first one?) Also, do I always research theory tech on the side or just a few times and let it rest until it goes down again?
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Feb 14, 2014 00:14
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GrossMurpel posted:Yeah let's talk about videogames Yeah, looks like someone flipped a + and -. There's been a gigantic influx of bug reports regarding Japan's foreign policy, hopefully the Devs will be moved to do something.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:15
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GrossMurpel posted:Do I just deploy my troops on the borders like I usually would and assign them to the nearest HQ? And if I go to war, do I just keep the HQs a few provinces back so that they don't engage in combat but are still within command range? 1. Yes, just deploy your divisions where you want and assign them all to an HQ, keeping mind that divisions belonging to the same HQ should generally stay together or be redeployed into more appropriate HQs to ensure that they can stay within radio range. 2. Yes, move your HQs to keep them within range as appropriate. You can also assign combat brigades to the HQ so that the HQ unit itself can participate in combat, if you want to. 3. You can assign the fleets and the aircraft to lower-level HQs and supposedly that will make them support the actions of the assigned HQ in the event of the HQ being AI-controlled. If you're handling it manually, it doesn't really matter where they're assigned. Historically Air HQs were assigned to the Front/Army Group-level or the Army-level. 4. The second OOB panel scrolls independently of the first, giving you more room to work with for very large OOBs
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Feb 14, 2014 04:34
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Hey, paradox modders, have any of you encountered this bug? I'm sure this is my fault (I'm working on a mod) but I can't figure this glitch out. I have essentially no coding experience and googling hasn't been helpful.
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Feb 14, 2014 05:01
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podcat  
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Feb 14, 2014 06:40
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Victoria 2 is the best Paradox game: A tale of World War I I hope you guys don't mind a monster post but I've had literally the greatest experience ever in a Paradox game and I need to share it. I've been playing as a less brutal Russia and using the New Nations Mod (NMM). I've been educating the people, building trains, trying to get education high and not have things stray from an eventual liberal democracy. This worked and at the time of the Great War I'm a contitutional democracy with the Mensheviks in power. Background -Austria-Hungary split into its constituent states and then reformed -Serbia jumped out of the Ottoman Empire and then formed Yugoslavia -Germany formed very early (pre-1860 early) and was a full democracy -The Ottomans got beaten so badly by me in the Crimean War they ceased to be a power of note -The North seceded from the South in the Civil War and formed something called the Free States of America. Montana, the Dakotas and Idaho join the Confederates for some unknown reason  -The FSA/USA, CSA and Mexico swapped Sonora and Chihuahua back and forth for a few decades -China consolidated itself into a unified empire in the late 1880s. The Great War (I got all the stats and date information from a nice little utility on the Paradox Forums called the Victoria 2 Save Game War Analyzer: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?689055-TOOL-Victoria-II-save-game-war-analyzer) On October 23rd, 1908 Japan gets a bee in its bonnet about Formosa and goes to war with the consolidated Chinese Empire and its client states Mongolia and Tibet. Japan calls me in on March 6th, 1909 and I accept. This is when poo poo goes absolutely bananas. -I can't possibly deal with the massive Chinese army so I call in the UK, France, Sweden, and the Netherlands who are all my allies. -China calls in Germany its ally and this becomes a Great War -My allies call in the British India states, Canada, the CSA, Colombia (  ), the Ottoman Empire, Yugoslavia, Persia and Egypt thanks to the changes the NNM makes to Great Wars.-Germany/China call in Spain, Italy, Austria-Hungary, the USA, Mexico, and Brazil -All hell breaks loose The Chinese Front Japan has already landed troops in its client state Korea and has made some progress into Manchuria. Once I join in, China invades Siberia and Uzbekistan/Kazakhstan. I spend the next 2 years fighting my way through the Gobi desert and the areas around Vladivostok and Irkutsk to push back the Chinese. The UK invades from India and the three of us make our way to Peking and eventually capture the entire empire by the close of the war. The battles are all incredibly bloody but there weren't any particularly insane ones. The French Front Beset on 3 sides by the Spanish, Italians and Germans, France fights bravely on their own until about 1911 when the French army is encircled and wiped out. Germany and Spain occupy what they can while Italy wheels around to start dealing with Yugoslavia. Germany never attempts to invade England as its entire navy is sunk within the first 2 months of the war by the British fleet. Over 300 ships are sunk during the war. The UK tries to invade Spain a few times but can't manage to do anything of note. The Netherlands are overrun by 1910 and are able to peace out of the war with little lost other than a massive prestige drop. They don't even have to release Belgium or their colonies in the East Indies. The Balkan Front Yugoslavia holds its own against Austria-Hungary until France falls apart at which point the Yugoslav front utterly collapses. Yugoslavia is forced to sign a humiliating peace treaty and pay reparations in late 1911, although they too lose no territory. This then puts pressure on the Ottomans, who have sent an expeditionary force to siege Tibet and have no real defenses. I manage to move some soldiers back east from the Chinese front and save Istanbul by the skin of my teeth. After the siege of Istanbul fails, the German-Chinese Alliance ignores the Balkans and the Ottomans. The American Front In North America, Canada attempts to distract enough US troops by invading Minnesota and Maine to allow the CSA to capture Washington for about the 6th time since 1860. This almost works but the Confederates get held up by some rebels and as a result are unable to capture Washington before the USA mobilizes. The CSA is slowly eaten by Mexico and the USA and is forced to give back Oklahoma, New Mexico and Kentucky to the US. Mexico gets Texas  plus its Mexican holdings returned. The borders are hideous since the CSA still holds Arizona. The US then captures everything in Canada but since it's a dominion of the UK no one cares. The entire US navy has been sunk about 7 times by now from the constant Mexico/CSA wars so they don't have a navy and can't do anything else.In South America, Colombia shows promising initial gains but it all falls apart when their strategy involves sending their entire army through the Amazon. This goes very badly for them but they escape with only a Great War Capitulation CB enforced because what the hell would Brazil want from Colombia anyway? The Russian Front I have an army of around 350 divisions and I'm able to mobilize another 600 or so. I initially set a defensive line from Latvia down to the Carpathian Mountains to allow my mobilized divisions time to reach the front. This works wonders as the Germans have a lot of problems assaulting down my Polish holdings. By the end of 1910 they're starting to futilely throw men into a meat-grinder. I begin my assault by trying to capture the area around Königsberg. It ends up being one of the bloodiest battles of the war. 204,000 Germans intervene and try to break the siege of 296,000 Russians. The Germans take 77% casualties in the battle and I don't do much better, having lost nearly half my soldiers in the battle. By the early part of 1911 I'm pretty much fighting the land war myself. Austria-Hungary has begun routing the Yugoslavs and so I'm forced to attack quickly into Austria-Hungary to attempt to relieve my ally. The flat areas east of the Carpathian Mountains fall quickly. But when I move into the mountains themselves I get a shock. The Austro-Hungarians have placed nearly 173,000 soldiers in wait for me. My initial attack force is obviously insufficient so I reinforce and by the end I've committed nearly 300,000 men. The Battle of the Carpathians rages on for two years. No I'm not joking. Over 300,000 men die. This battle utterly shatters their army and I'm able to occupy the country in a few months. With Austria-Hungary neutralized I move in for the kill. I've been slowly marching in to Germany since the Battle of Königsberg, but I've had to plug holes in my lines due to German counter-attacks. With Berlin in sight, I take it in early 1912 and due to the invention of the tank I advance all the way to Bremen and Frankfurt. The Treaty of Berlin Once I've captured Frankfurt the last of the Chinese holdings fall and the German-Chinese Alliance sues for peace. There were over 25 battles that had more than 100,000 deaths. The German-Chinese Alliance lost 11.1 million men and the Russian-French-English Alliance has lost 8.5 million men for a total of almost 20 million dead. Our timeline's World War 1 only had about 9 million die between both sides combined. The existentialist movement in this timeline is going to be insane.NMM's Great Wars end with an event that does a (mostly) sane break up of empires into constituent states. Colonies are also stripped off and given to the winners. I've included pictures so you can better get a sense of what happens next. European Reconstruction  - Germany had its eastern provinces removed and made into new states. I picked up the rest of Poland so I could have pretty borders - Austria-Hungary broke into Austria, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia - Spain was carved up a bit as you can see from Leon and Galicia being their own states. - Italy was, weirdly, left completely intact. The only thing they released was Trieste, which was surrounded by Yugoslavia anyway. Chinese Reconstruction  -China got screwed. All of those states are independent. Mongolia joined my sphere, Tibet and Kashgaria joined the UK's and all the cliques hate each other. Japan did get Formosa in the end but otherwise no one gained any territory. American Reconstruction  -America was forced to give up New England as an independent state and give back New Mexico -Mexico gave up Sonora and Rio Grande as independent states and gave Texas back to the CSA -Oddly enough, the CSA didn't get all their holdings back as Kentucky stayed with the USA. But at least they got Texas and New Mexico. Those borders were terrible for a few years  In 1916, 4 years after the war ends almost to the day, everything goes to poo poo in the Americas. Two new American states (the New American Alliance and the old FSA) pop up in the most random locations and the USA goes into a mass revolt. The USA had just voted in the socialists a few months before the revolts too.  The next year more states join the FSA and the Colorado Republic breaks off.  And then the CSA decides to go fascist for the hell of it. I'm guessing they're mad they didn't get any new territory out of the war. Rebels did end up giving them Rio Grande, Oklahoma, and two states with no pops that are disconnected from the CSA proper (Montana and North Dakota).  Meanwhile in Europe, Germany is having constant revolts between fascism and democracy. This is the 4th or 5th flip-flop I saw. Italy is also doing the same thing. Austria actually seems okay with not being an empire anymore since they only have about 20 brigades of rebels instead of the thousands I've seen in Germany and Italy. The stack on Berlin says "2K" if you can't read it. The rebels in Russia were the Poles demanding their own country. I was very sad about this because I had been very nice to them the whole game and saved them from the horrors of whatever the hell was happening in Germany.  I ended up quitting the game right after this. In the year or so of game time since I last checked on America they have: had another state break away, somehow lost Utah of all places to Mexico and are about to have the entire Pacific coast break off. Oh and now the FSA is in a war with the CSA over Kentucky. Good lord. Conclusion I have no idea if the Great War mod that NMM includes is supposed to simulate the post-war turmoil in states that lose quite like this. I have never seen anything this nutty happen in a Paradox game that isn't named Crusader Kings. On top of this inter-war insanity, the Great War has got to be one of the best wars I've ever seen, it felt exactly like I was fighting WWI. I really, really hope if there's ever a Victoria 3 they implement these kind of mechanics because it was amazing. tl;dr: Everyone should play Victoria 2 with NMM because the Great Wars are amazing and then you can watch the losers collapse. axeil fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 07:56
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Dear lord, I never really got into Victoria 2 as nothing seemed to ever actually happen, but I may give it another go after reading that.
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Feb 14, 2014 08:24
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GrossMurpel posted:I just started my first proper HoI3 game. I have a fair amount of experience with DH (especially KR) so I know about deploying units and stuff. My problem right now is that the OOB just seems completely impenetrable at first. Do I just deploy my troops on the borders like I usually would and assign them to the nearest HQ? And if I go to war, do I just keep the HQs a few provinces back so that they don't engage in combat but are still within command range? This guy made some very good tutorials on HoI3. They're not too long and he's very clear about it. They really helped me to start and play a few games before I went back to DH. "Republic of China"  I always found Paradox games the most fun when I make up a narrative for what's happening and the narrative actually makes sense and continues to make sense without the AI completely ruining all my immersion by being stupid. It doesn't happen too often but this looks like one of those moments and they're both fun to read about and play. Tamerlame fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 08:40
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Dumb newbie here. Is the New Nations Mod compatible with the Popular Demand Mod? I know the PDM incorporates some of the nations from NMM, but I'm a glutton for options.
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Feb 14, 2014 09:12
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pospysyl posted:Dumb newbie here. Is the New Nations Mod compatible with the Popular Demand Mod? I know the PDM incorporates some of the nations from NMM, but I'm a glutton for options. iirc New Nations is just PDM without all the extra garbage so just play PDM if that's what you're after.
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Feb 14, 2014 09:16
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There's crazy, and then there's paradox crazy. Seriously, of all places, the RoC gets exiled to Arabia? Now I've seen everything.
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Feb 14, 2014 09:47
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Victoria 2: Total War, indeed.
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Feb 14, 2014 11:48
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ArchRanger posted:Dear lord, I never really got into Victoria 2 as nothing seemed to ever actually happen, but I may give it another go after reading that.  Afghanistan is one of the funnest nations in the game. I was using APD when I played this, but don't play that. Railroads are useless and I had to do all kinds of modding to put them back in. Just use NNM and circumvent the bullshit. Said bullshit is also how I won this, because rebels ain't worth a drat in APD. I also mod Vicky so that one soldier death reflects one POP death, as opposed to the four or so in vanilla. This battle completely depopulated my empire for a good twenty years. I didn't experience any rebel discord in that time, but I couldn't do much of anything, either. The rebellion cost more Pashtun lives than the war, which does seem kind of historically plausible. Post-Great War combatants were in trouble even if they were on the winning side. *e*  
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Feb 14, 2014 12:46
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:I once ended my great war -- in which I gave Ireland a colony in Liverpool as punishment for British involvement -- I marched my boys on the European front back home to Kabul.. 
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Feb 14, 2014 13:29
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