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Chrono Trigger being developed that way also resulted in it not having as much content as its contemporaries. It's expensive to hand-craft every encounter like that, which is doubly troublesome for that kind of RPG - a genre that doesn't sell huge numbers and appeals to customers who prefer length and complexity. Chrono Trigger itself gets a pass because the quality of the content is phenomenal, but quality is notoriously difficult to imitate. Chrono Trigger is what happens when when you combine a 90s-style arcade action game and a JRPG, in that it moves rapidly, has enormous variety, and everything you need to worry about is visible on one screen at a time. Nobody thinks of those two genres as being compatible in that way.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:13
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Friendly Factory posted:Is there info on when Trails in the Sky 1 is going to be on Steam? I've been itching for a jRPG lately and had been looking forward to it after hearing good things. They said winter 2013, now early 2014, but I can't find info beyond that. Apparently they had some minor programming issues with getting everything to work on Steam. Techinically, I think Winter 2013 was meant to mean the winter starting in 2013 and ending in March, and they seem to think they'll have it done in this timeframe.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:16
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Chrono Cross wasn't terrible, but when you are the sequel to a game with the reputation of Chrono Trigger you're kind of doomed to failure.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:45
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hubris.height posted:Chrono Cross wasn't terrible, but when you are the sequel to a game with the reputation of Chrono Trigger you're kind of doomed to failure. Yeah but when one of your steps is "Add a shitton of characters with zero personality and nothing but a text filter to differentiate them", you're shooting yourself in the foot. A lot. And you can't just blame CT's legacy for that.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:46
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I can appreciate a lot of Chrono Trigger's design decisions but the way the enemies are placed basically means that you're just fighting the same battles in the same places 99% of the time, and I honestly find the battle system boring as hell and a bit frustrating, since there's no direct way to actually influence positioning - it just feels like characters are moving around wherever the hell they want to, with no input on my part. I'd take them standing on opposite sides and taking turns whacking each other over that.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:10
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Chrono Cross is secretly the first game in the Baten Kaitos series.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:31
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Chrono Cross' text filter thing was pretty unique, and still is (I don't know of any other games that used it). Prior to that point, adding characters meant either you gave everyone the same line of dialogue, or you developed a separate line for each character. Both of these things had their limitations, the latter was probably held back by the effort required, and the former is kind of dull on second play-throughs. For CC they wanted a huge cast of characters, and were -- I'm willing to bet -- operating under constrained budget guidelines. So the solution they came up with was the rather impressive speech filtering for the text that allowed each character to be unique, even while saying identical things. Though it certainly could become over played with certain characters, to the point of being annoying, but if you think about it everyone has unique accents. It was a robust solution, in my mind, and I will always regard it highly. It sure as hell beat what every other JRPG was doing for that situation (either limiting the amount of possible party members, not having them talk, or giving them identical lines of dialogue). Suikoden, obviously, has the best solution because afaik they all have unique lines of dialogue for the entire game.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:03
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hubris.height posted:(I don't know of any other games that used it). This is because it was loving stupid. It's a poo poo solution that provides no characterization. If you can't write more characters, don't have more characters.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:45
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fronz posted:This is because it was loving stupid. It's a poo poo solution that provides no characterization. If you can't write more characters, don't have more characters. Totally this. It wasn't like they had to have that many characters. You can pick two people for most of the game and there's no Castle or War or anything like that like Suikoden has. A smaller group of defined characters would have done so much better than having more characters just to have more characters.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:47
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'Robust solution?' They're all saying the same thing. poo poo, I'd take them saying the same thing over that - at least it isn't insulting to my intelligence.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:49
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Chrono Cross basically is a two person band with Serge and Kid; the entire plot revolves around them and everything is basically defined by what happened and happens to them. All of the other characters are glorified NPCs that you can take into combat. But that said, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. The story as-written works fine with this set-up. And there are enough "interesting" ones to go out of your way to recruit like Glenn, Norris, Karsh, and Fargo. You just sadly don't get nearly as many good character arcs. But there's no real hit to the story itself if you just ignore them as extras.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:59
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Serge, Kid and Glenn best party forever
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Feb 12, 2014 00:21
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Paperhouse posted:Serge, Kid and Glenn best party forever Fargo > Kid and its not even close. I loved the hell out of Chrono Cross as a kid but that's entirely because its a series of barely if ever connected lovingly painted areas with an amazing soundtrack. It sure as hell wasn't because the story, combat, or characters were worth a drat.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:26
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One aspect that made Chrono Trigger work was that all the sidequests tied into the main story, usually by resolving a dangling sub-plot or bringing a positive change in the world. In a lot of JRPG's there isn't much regard for continuity or consistency; FFIV starts with a knight feeling bad for destroying a village and it ends with the same knight going on a spaceship to the moon to fight an evil dead guy. The plot is pretty much made up as they go along. Chrono Trigger, on the other hand, remembers to tie up loose ends and keep track of its characters: The Sunken Desert quest gives Lucca a chance to change a traumatic moment in her past. The Rainbow Shell quest has Marle reconcile with her father. The Geno Dome offers Robo a day in the limelight. Ozzie's Fort gives you a rematch against the Trio as well bringing peace between humans and monsters. The Northern Ruins has Frog strengthen his resolve or something. In the otherwise excellent DS port of Chrono Trigger two extra dungeon sidequests are added that diminish the overall quality. These dungeons show a great dissonance in game design compared to the vanilla content, with a whole load of bullshit fetch quests and backtracking.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:27
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Barudak posted:Fargo > Kid and its not even close.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:37
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Paperhouse posted:I don't think there was anything wrong with the combat at all, there were quite a few interesting and unique elements (haha) to it and I think they worked. The story is criticised too harshly as well imo, it's kind of a mess but it's an intriguing and ambitious mess that had a lot of genuinely cool moments and ideas. Can't really argue about the characters though The story is an intriguing mess if you ignore almost all of it. The story is a trainwreck made entirely of trains that were derailed by other trainwrecks. The unabashed highlight of the game for me is the Dwarves who after waging ethnic genocide and wiping out all the fairies tell you with a straight face you're a horrible person for killing them because they're different.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:45
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Nate RFB posted:Chrono Cross basically is a two person band with Serge and Kid; the entire plot revolves around them and everything is basically defined by what happened and happens to them. All of the other characters are glorified NPCs that you can take into combat. But that said, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. The story as-written works fine with this set-up. And there are enough "interesting" ones to go out of your way to recruit like Glenn, Norris, Karsh, and Fargo. You just sadly don't get nearly as many good character arcs. But there's no real hit to the story itself if you just ignore them as extras. This basically sums up my feelings on the matter. It wasn't perfect, but I think it was a clever solution to a problem. If I recall correctly, a lot of the characters did have specific scenes for their interaction. I understand where the anti-accent crowd is coming from, but I really liked it personally.  Inspector Gesicht posted:In the otherwise excellent DS port of Chrono Trigger two extra dungeon sidequests are added that diminish the overall quality. These dungeons show a great dissonance in game design compared to the vanilla content, with a whole load of bullshit fetch quests and backtracking. I own this port but haven't played it. When I heard about it I was just kind of excited for there to be more stuff in the game. Is it really that mediocre? On a different note, sounds like my decision to not buy Lightning Returns has been vindicated.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:05
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Friendly Factory fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2014 04:37
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Nobody can argue about Chrono Cross' soundtrack, though. Nothing Yasunori Mitsuda has done since then even comes close to it.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:40
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Friendly Factory fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Feb 12, 2014 04:41
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Yeah, no. I got problems with CC but the soundtrack is top loving notch.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:48
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hubris.height posted:Chrono Cross' text filter thing was pretty unique, and still is (I don't know of any other games that used it). Can you explain a little more about how it worked, because I've never played it and I don't know exactly what you mean. NPC text was semi-randomized? Or they used an algorithm to change dialogue while giving the same information?
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Feb 12, 2014 05:12
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Skwirl posted:Can you explain a little more about how it worked, because I've never played it and I don't know exactly what you mean. NPC text was semi-randomized? Or they used an algorithm to change dialogue while giving the same information? There was literally an accent generator with all the various character's stupid verbal tics. So "How are you doing?" Might become, "How is you doing?" "How-um are you-um doing?" " 'ow are you doing mate? It was stupid as gently caress.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:17
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Zore posted:There was literally an accent generator with all the various character's stupid verbal tics. That last one should have a trigger warning on it. What is the consensus on that cockney gently caress from DQ8? I couldn't stand him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLD2nOSHJLk&t=162s
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Feb 12, 2014 05:21
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He loving owned, though admittedly that was solely down to the voice-acting. If it was just in text, I'd hate him too.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:23
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Devor posted:That last one should have a trigger warning on it. What is the consensus on that cockney gently caress from DQ8? I couldn't stand him. Yangus owns, sorry. "Cor blimey!" still makes me smile for some reason. Probably because I don't actually know what it means or comes from, so my apologies if its roots are, in fact, terrible.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:27
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GrandpaPants posted:Yangus owns, sorry.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:30
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Who is better? Yangus or Drippy? Gonna go with Drippy myself. vvv Haha, no argument there. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 06:21
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Yangus because I enjoyed his game.
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Feb 12, 2014 06:25
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On that note, what happened to Level 5? White Knight Chronicles and Ni no Kuni both did nothing for me from gameplay perspectives. I know people here have issues with it, but I really liked Rogue Galaxy, and DQ8 is fantastic, and the Dark Cloud's were cool. I hope Wonderflick turns out okay because I feel like we haven't had a great L-5 JRPG in a very long time.
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Feb 12, 2014 08:22
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Baltazar Robotnik posted:On that note, what happened to Level 5? White Knight Chronicles and Ni no Kuni both did nothing for me from gameplay perspectives. I know people here have issues with it, but I really liked Rogue Galaxy, and DQ8 is fantastic, and the Dark Cloud's were cool. They began making franchise called Professor Layton and Danball Senki which made them roughly All The Money Ever as well as the always popular Inuzuma 11. (They also helped make the worst Gundam series ever but that's neither here nor there.) Jeanne D'Arc on the PSP was a pretty good game though.
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Feb 12, 2014 08:24
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ImpAtom posted:They began making franchise called Professor Layton and Danball Senki which made them roughly All The Money Ever as well as the always popular Inuzuma 11. (They also helped make the worst Gundam series ever but that's neither here nor there.) I always got the impression that the people who worked on Layton would have to be different from the JRPG team, since they're radically different, but that might not be the case.
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Feb 12, 2014 08:29
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Baltazar Robotnik posted:I always got the impression that the people who worked on Layton would have to be different from the JRPG team, since they're radically different, but that might not be the case. Akihiro Hino is the lead designer/director on most of their games, although he only produces Danball or Inuzuma. He's been busy with Layton and Gundam AGE mostly. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 08:32
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Mill Village posted:Nobody can argue about Chrono Cross' soundtrack, though. Nothing Yasunori Mitsuda has done since then even comes close to it.
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Feb 12, 2014 13:12
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GrandpaPants posted:Yangus owns, sorry. Yeah, King Trode showing up out of nowhere and it shocking Yangus every time was a great running gag. As you said, Yangus owns.
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Feb 12, 2014 14:03
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Wizards can be brokenly good... if you know what you're doing. How much patience you have and how much you're willing to exploit things can determine that as well. I did an LP of Divinity 1 and was surprised how crazy broken a wizard could get if you really tried. Thanks for all the advice, I'm actually reading your LP as I play the game. It'd be more appropriate to say I was reading along with my playing than playing along with the LP. I play the game for a few hours, then read up to where I've gotten in the LP, really helpful for stuff I've missed; I'd have never duplicated the healing gem without it. I'm glad I went mage, even though it feels like cheating, the cast as fast as you can click is just broken, nothing is a match for machine-gun meteors or my newly acquired lightning bolt. Annihilated the troll king and his entourage and stole his gold, which is a drop in the ocean of money and items I have, as well as dozens of restoration potions. I think just going in a circle around Aleroth obliterating orcs with arcane powers netted me a couple hundred thousand exp and and bumped me up to level 10, too. TehGherkin fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 11:19
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DQM2 on 3ds. Make your own super monster, and steal other monster characteristics.  She is a floating Slime Poltergeist thingie:  Ballin' right out of control
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Feb 14, 2014 00:35
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TehGherkin posted:Thanks for all the advice, I'm actually reading your LP as I play the game. It'd be more appropriate to say I was reading along with my playing than playing along with the LP. I play the game for a few hours, then read up to where I've gotten in the LP, really helpful for stuff I've missed; I'd have never duplicated the healing gem without it. You'll be even gladder that you're not a melee character in the endgame. Don't be too thrilled with your fantastic new level: The enemies in the next area start at level 11.
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Feb 14, 2014 01:12
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BabyRyoga posted:DQM2 on 3ds. I didn't even know they remade DQM2 as well... C'mon Square Enix, you still have fans over here. 
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Feb 14, 2014 01:17
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So what is people's opinion of Hexyz Force? My friend recommended it to me and well, he likes Neptunia. Also, I want to play Breath of Fire 1, should I play the SNES or the GBA version?
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Feb 14, 2014 06:30
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