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Tharizdun posted:The loving UW Mirror will go to turns anyway, who cares if your match ends in 38 or 35 minutes. I don't get this - I played plenty of UW - Esper matches that don't get close to time and do involve extensive Aetherling wars and proper play from both players. I guess I'm either more/less experienced than these guys that pilot the U/W/x lists to time. vvv Also yeah let me talk about all the cool things I do that FNM threatens to block off my schedule from... hey bro where's my bro Yamazaki I need my +2/+2 and haste and don't need rules like the Legendary rule or this dumb camera rule.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:39
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Listen, I have really cool and awesome things to do like touch a girl and drink beers, because I'm cool and awesome, I don't have time to listen to reasonable advice.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:39
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OssiansFolly posted:Because after FNM I want to go drinking...if I spend an over all 3 minutes per game writing down hands and play 3 games per match at 5 matches in a night I am effectively losing the equivalent of 2 beers being drunk or 45 minutes...and that isn't including my opponent. It speeds things up for everyone involved. It isn't a matter of being lazy...it is a matter of convenience. Everyone seems to confuse and combine the two concepts. Not that I care to get involved in the weekly shouting match over writing hands down versus taking pictures of them, but it shouldn't take you 3 minutes per game to write down the contents of your opponent's hand even if you cast 4x Thoughtseize and 4x Duress every single game. 3 minutes is a really long time.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:41
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AnacondaHL posted:Tournament rules were changed last year(IIRC?) to allow either player to look up Oracle text on their phone, and to let the opponent see what they are looking up. I was wondering if taking pictures came under note taking but the 2.11 section only refers to written notes so that seems to be out. My cunning plan to draw an opponent's card art instead of writing down the names is apparently a failure too then. 
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Feb 14, 2014 19:41
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Sleep of Bronze posted:I was wondering if taking pictures came under note taking but the 2.11 section only refers to written notes so that seems to be out. My cunning plan to draw an opponent's cards instead of writing down the names is apparently a failure then. You could probably use a paint app and call it taking notes. In fact, let me unveil my new app - Draw Mono-B Devotion, where you can paint any card in Mono-B devotion by numbers. Stinky Pit posted:Listen, I have really cool and awesome things to do like touch a girl and drink beers, because I'm cool and awesome, I don't have time to listen to reasonable advice. Don't forget how he has to deal with 2 guys at his FLGS that look like stereotypical card playing nerds! The Zoness fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 19:43
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ScarletBrother posted:It makes you lazy and creates a bad habit if you ever plan on playing at higher RELs. Why not just create good habits that won't punish you later? That's a fair point except that: A) I almost-always carry a pocket notepad and pen on me anyways, especially if the opponent needs to keep track of something and doesn't have a smartphone/dice (not that you would have known that since I didn't mention it, but it's there) B) I don't really care about higher tournament play. Cactrot posted:Don't understand the need to take pictures if I've already got a notepad out for life totals. Why would I take the time ask my opponent if it's OK for me to take a picture, pull out my phone, find the camera app, line up a shot, double check to make sure it's legible, then take a second one if it's not? Do people not know how easy it is to pull up the phone app on an iPhone that's been updated these days? bhsman fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 19:50
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bhsman posted:B) I don't really care about higher tournament play. But other people do, so dispensing advice that isn't legal in higher level tournaments isn't particularly great on that front (plenty of posts about first time GPs and the like). That said, if you don't run into problems with it, kudos to you. Especially when you're passing it with primer-level advice on running a deck, you're probably passing your brew on to people that would want to try it at higher REL events.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:55
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Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but which would be better for selling extra cards from draft, Cardshark or TCGPlayer? It would mostly be commons and uncommons, but my wife and I have started racking up >4 on quite a few staples rares from draft. We would trade, but no one at our store seems to be interested in an equitable trade and/or already have them. I've sold on Cardshark before and while they take 15% on top of Paypal's transaction fee, it's fairly straightforward and a decent way to unload extra commons and uncommons for a few bucks. I see that TCGPlayer has been allowing individual sellers, but it seems like they mostly want you to sell higher ticket items? The cut is a lot lower, but I can't find any good documentation on their listing limits.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:55
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With all this talk about note taking and getting pictures of your opponents hand. I have always used a notepad and pen to keep track of life totals as the game progresses, but do people seriously have a problem remembering the 7 ( or fewer ) cards in someone's hand? I have a poo poo memory and have almost always played while high or drunk and have never had an issue remembering what someone has in their hand.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:55
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jhorphear posted:With all this talk about note taking and getting pictures of your opponents hand. I have always used a notepad and pen to keep track of life totals as the game progresses, but do people seriously have a problem remembering the 7 ( or fewer ) cards in someone's hand? I have a poo poo memory and have almost always played while high or drunk and have never had an issue remembering what someone has in their hand. I always thought it was like 60% mind game. Like you're not doing it so much because you need to know every card in their hand, you probably just need to know about one relevant one, but you're taking advantage of the card text to boss the opponent around a little. Next cycle will have "Tap: Examine opponent's hand. Insinuate that you slept with their wife. Say "It'd be a shame if something happened to that pretty little house of yours." Scry 2"
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Feb 14, 2014 19:58
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jhorphear posted:With all this talk about note taking and getting pictures of your opponents hand. I have always used a notepad and pen to keep track of life totals as the game progresses, but do people seriously have a problem remembering the 7 ( or fewer ) cards in someone's hand? I have a poo poo memory and have almost always played while high or drunk and have never had an issue remembering what someone has in their hand. You probably don't actually have a poo poo memory -- but I don't think it's about actually being able to remember as opposed to making sure you know exactly what they have, especially for tight play sequencing. I've played against meticulous players who wrote stuff down and still handled the wrong cards (i.e. Rakdos Returning after splitting piles on a Jace -2 giving me counters but placing me on Elspeth which I made a show of tucking and which he wrote down). It's just easy to make mistakes like that and having the record helps mitigate it, and once you're in that habit it's hard to try to remember things without an aid.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:59
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Zoness posted:But other people do, so dispensing advice that isn't legal in higher level tournaments isn't particularly great on that front (plenty of posts about first time GPs and the like). That said, if you don't run into problems with it, kudos to you. I couldn't have warned anyone about something I was completely unaware of before, but I'll be sure to mention it in the future. That said, if Magic continues to enjoy widespread play for the next couple of years, at what point does Wizards continue to draw the line with regard to technology? GoogleGlass or some competitor's analogue alone would make it really interesting: just look at the opponent's hand, take picture, and hand it back. Or, assuming cards like Slaughter Games that let you search an opponent's library, you could just record a video while you search through the deck. My real point in responding to all this was the contention that taking a photo is somehow rude or even slow when I think it's just unconventional and people are reacting to that. bhsman fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 20:02
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Emerson Cod posted:Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but which would be better for selling extra cards from draft, Cardshark or TCGPlayer? It would mostly be commons and uncommons, but my wife and I have started racking up >4 on quite a few staples rares from draft. We would trade, but no one at our store seems to be interested in an equitable trade and/or already have them. As someone who consistently buys and sells cards as a way to finance my hobby (I love Legacy and am saving for power) piecemeal commons and uncommons, are not worth the effort. The time you will spend packaging and shipping is worth more than what youll get. Put them in a box, when you've got thousands and thousands, sell them at bulk for $20 at the next GP or whatever. Occasionally a hot common or uncommon will climb to a couple bucks, at which point its worth the effort to search the through the box for those cards to sell. Otherwise don't bother. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 20:02
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Is there a reason they allow any form of note-taking in the first place? The whole thing seems like a sliding scale from any sort of objective overview, whether it's notes or cameras or even your own video recorder.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:06
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bhsman posted:I couldn't have warned anyone about something I was completely unaware of before, but I'll be sure to mention it in the future. I don't think taking a photo is rude necessarily (there are still ways to be a dick about it though), it's just against the rules, which is my issue with it. I almost guarantee that stuff like Google Glass will be disallowed from tournament play.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:08
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weird vanilla posted:Is there a reason they allow any form of note-taking in the first place? The whole thing seems like a sliding scale from any sort of objective overview, whether it's notes or cameras or even your own video recorder. From the magic website: That means I can take notes during my current match, right? Memory is not a skill being tested by Magic. That's why players are allowed to take in-game notes, and consult them during the remainder of the match. Keep in mind, though, that these notes have to be written down in a timely fashion. These notes can only be used by you, and only during the same match. You may also ask for the current Oracle wording on a particular card.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:09
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bhsman posted:I couldn't have warned anyone about something I was completely unaware of before, but I'll be sure to mention it in the future. No idea about it, but I'm sure wizards will try to restrict digitally recording cards until it's thoroughly unpreventable due to impact on decklist knowledge. The thing is part of GP's and PT's is that decklists are secret until the event is played but knowing the opponent's list even before boarding lets you play differently from not knowing the list (granted there's not a lot of ways to prevent this even without pictures of cards etc just because you get time to chat with teammates and walk around and junk). Think of it this way - if everyone that played against big shot player's new deck at a GP flickr'd snapshots of that player's hands over the course of the tournament any innate surprise value in running the brew would be lost. Whether or not this is a good thing is up in the air but it is still a thing. And that's the thing - with written stuff it's still fairly restrictive to distribute. Once you take a phone photo there's no way to keep you from tweeting that photo.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:09
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weird vanilla posted:Is there a reason they allow any form of note-taking in the first place? The whole thing seems like a sliding scale from any sort of objective overview, whether it's notes or cameras or even your own video recorder. It's to even the playing field between those with strong memories and those without. There are a few things that WOTC believe are "skills" that shouldn't impact the game. Memory is one of them, allowing players to take notes during matches, diminishes the role of memory as a skill in the game.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:09
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theironjef posted:From the magic website: Then why disallow instant digital photographs, apart from "it's against the rules"?
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Feb 14, 2014 20:11
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Emerson Cod posted:Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but which would be better for selling extra cards from draft, Cardshark or TCGPlayer? It would mostly be commons and uncommons, but my wife and I have started racking up >4 on quite a few staples rares from draft. We would trade, but no one at our store seems to be interested in an equitable trade and/or already have them. If you have lots of staple rares and some of the better uncommons, why not try listing them on the goon card selling/trading thread first? Stuff goes quick over there depending on what it is. Make a list on deckbox and post it up.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:11
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I usually don't write down what they have, but that's because I'm casting Cabal Therapy in Legacy Affinity, and only 2-3 of their cards matter at all.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:11
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weird vanilla posted:Then why disallow instant digital photographs, apart from "it's against the rules"? Because then you can easily distribute parts of peoples' decklists and piece together an opponent's decklists on shared photos. bhsman posted:That's more or less my point: why is taking a photo any different from writing down notes? One of those isn't on the phone and isn't instant verification of truth by consequence of being on-site and being a photo.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:12
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weird vanilla posted:Is there a reason they allow any form of note-taking in the first place? The whole thing seems like a sliding scale from any sort of objective overview, whether it's notes or cameras or even your own video recorder. That's more or less my point: why is taking a photo any different from writing down notes? ScarletBrother posted:I don't think taking a photo is rude necessarily (there are still ways to be a dick about it though), it's just against the rules, which is my issue with it. I almost guarantee that stuff like Google Glass will be disallowed from tournament play. To be honest I just mentioned Google Glass but was really thinking of the eye-cameras from Ghost in the Shell.  I don't agree with banning taking of pictures explicitly for the sake of remembering a player's hand after using a card with that effect.Zoness posted:Because then you can easily distribute parts of peoples' decklists and piece together an opponent's decklists on shared photos. As opposed to someone watching their match and telling what was played afterwards?
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Feb 14, 2014 20:12
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Zoness posted:Think of it this way - if everyone that played against big shot player's new deck at a GP flickr'd snapshots of that player's hands over the course of the tournament any innate surprise value in running the brew would be lost. Whether or not this is a good thing is up in the air but it is still a thing. And that's the thing - with written stuff it's still fairly restrictive to distribute. Once you take a phone photo there's no way to keep you from tweeting that photo. How is it fairly restrictive? If you actually care enough to be doing it in the first place, posting some text (seven card names at most, usually) isn't that hard.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:14
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weird vanilla posted:Then why disallow instant digital photographs, apart from "it's against the rules"? Because it complicates things further. You're supposed to begin a match with zero notes, only make them during the match, and throw them away after. There are problems introduced in making sure someone isn't referring to notes stored on their phone/texting a friend/whatever other form of cheating when they claim to be referring to the pictures that serve as their notes.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:14
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I'm on mobile and it wont link correctly for me, whats the post? Speculating on herald and SotL? Seems to me like people havent made up their mind about what to pay for those yet. Smashing Link posted:Wow that is sweet, excellent resource. Also in case anyone here hasn't read the OP, there's a big thread for buying/selling cards in SA-Mart. I may or not have a list of cards for sale there. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3387998
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Feb 14, 2014 20:15
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Zoness posted:Because then you can easily distribute parts of peoples' decklists and piece together an opponent's decklists on shared photos. Not that I care about this 'debate' one way or the other, but having the notes written doesn't change this. If you really want to do this you can just take a photo of your notes and/or text them to everyone you like.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:15
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bhsman posted:That's more or less my point: why is taking a photo any different from writing down notes? It's a lot easier to disseminate photos from your phone than it is hand written notes or word of mouth.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:16
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JerryLee posted:How is it fairly restrictive? If you actually care enough to be doing it in the first place, posting some text (seven card names at most, usually) isn't that hard. Presumably if you did it in the middle of a match it would take long enough to be noticeable. Also I could just post 7 cards without context and it wouldn't mean much nor would it guarantee what I posted to be truth. A photo of some player splaying out some cards gives you a face and an idea of their decklist.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:16
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Stinky Pit posted:Because it complicates things further. You're supposed to begin a match with zero notes, only make them during the match, and throw them away after. There are problems introduced in making sure someone isn't referring to notes stored on their phone/texting a friend/whatever other form of cheating when they claim to be referring to the pictures that serve as their notes. What is the difference between that and literally finishing a game, whipping out your phone and texting what cards and combos a player used? If the answer is none, effectively and there isn't then what is there to debate? ScarletBrother posted:It's a lot easier to disseminate photos from your phone than it is hand written notes or word of mouth. As opposed to texting someone what you just saw a player use? 
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Feb 14, 2014 20:17
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bhsman posted:What is the difference between that and literally finishing a game, whipping out your phone and texting what cards and combos a player used? If the answer is none, effectively and there isn't then what is there to debate? I believe you've pointed out the difference right there. It is remarkably easy to take a picture that has both a player and cards shown on it, and way harder to fake a player's picture with cards than it would be to post a player's name and cards that they're not playing.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:18
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Zoness posted:I believe you've pointed out the difference right there. Then what the gently caress is wrong with photos if the hang up is the speed of disseminating information?
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Feb 14, 2014 20:18
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The original point of my argument is that it is against the rules at competitive REL and higher to take photos during a match. Whether that rule makes sense or not is irrelevant. It's the rules. If you get in the habit of breaking the rules at FNM it's going to come back to punish you at a bigger tournament.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:20
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bhsman posted:What is the difference between that and literally finishing a game, whipping out your phone and texting what cards and combos a player used? If the answer is none, effectively and there isn't then what is there to debate? You're supposed to be done with your notes after the game. Disseminating them via text is obviously a direct violation of that you loving goober.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:21
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bhsman posted:Then what the gently caress is wrong with photos if the hang up is the speed of disseminating information? It's not the speed -- it's the reliability. What's more easily believable and parseable: "Kibler lost to a topdecked bonfire" or  But with actual cards shown and discussed, etc. Also earlier in the tournament.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:22
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bhsman posted:What is the difference between that and literally finishing a game, whipping out your phone and texting what cards and combos a player used? If the answer is none, effectively and there isn't then what is there to debate? Or take a photo of your hand written notes?
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Feb 14, 2014 20:24
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Stinky Pit posted:You're supposed to be done with your notes after the game. Disseminating them via text is obviously a direct violation of that you loving goober. My point is that if someone wants to do disseminate information about a new deck, taking photos and not deleting them or texting someone is effectively the same thing you illiterate scubberdegullion.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:24
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Stinky Pit posted:You're supposed to be done with your notes after the game. Disseminating them via text is obviously a direct violation of that you loving goober. Where does that idea come from? From the Wizards Website that was used earlier: "2) Information regarding opponent's decks. While you can certainly get information regarding possible opponents between rounds from your friends, etc, you can't refer to these notes once the round starts."
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Feb 14, 2014 20:25
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Zoness posted:It's not the speed -- it's the reliability. Woah man how did they not ban post-1816 technology from this event??? And as long as Twitter is a thing, single-sentence reporting works. The .gif and video of this was awesome, but it's just a different medium of the same information.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:26
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Stinky Pit posted:As someone who consistently buys and sells cards as a way to finance my hobby (I love Legacy and am saving for power) piecemeal commons and uncommons, are not worth the effort. The time you will spend packaging and shipping is worth more than what youll get. If it was just a few commons and uncommons, I would agree. But we've got at least 12+ extra commons of everything in Theros, at least 4+ extra uncommons, and a bunch of rares that we would be selling as well to make it more worthwhile. As we continue to draft BNG-THS-THS it's just going to get downright unmanageable. I've sold on Cardshark before, the packing and shipping isn't that big of a deal to me. Even selling $20 bucks a week would cover our FNM entry costs, making the hobby (mostly) net neutral. I'd much prefer to trade off some of those rares, but for some reason people seem to be adverse to equitable trades. I've had people eye some decent cards (Hero's Downfalls, Anger of the Gods, etc) we have in our binder and hand us a binder full of .25 junk rares. Whenever I pull my phone out to check a price, I get weird looks. Is that common in trades?
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Feb 14, 2014 20:27
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