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Stroop There It Is posted:The order of terminology (from the corebook) basically goes: I mean that literally, not that I don't understand it. Ancilla is the word for slave girl. He's a Prince who's a slave girl, which is already two rungs up the vampiric ladder. That's nonsensical.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:17
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gatz posted:
Or maybe he just uses magic to make the painting seem to be there. I remember the Elizabeth Dane mission as being tough as balls, but I've might've tried to stealth it with 0-1 points in stealth.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:08
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MJ12 posted:She might just have high willpower. The average human has a willpower of 3. Exceptional people can go up to 10, which is like .1% of the population. At that point you are ridiculously resistant to Dominate. Sleep of Bronze posted:I mean that literally, not that I don't understand it. Ancilla is the word for slave girl. He's a Prince who's a slave girl, which is already two rungs up the vampiric ladder. That's nonsensical. 
Stroop There It Is fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 21:11
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apostateCourier posted:So he claims. Napoleon is the Canadian girlfriend of French vampires.
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Feb 13, 2014 22:40
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Barf Wight posted:Actually it's the Peter Paul Rubens painting again, only not flipped. You're right. Why didn't I catch that? Fixed.
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Feb 14, 2014 06:30
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Barf Wight posted:I remember the Elizabeth Dane mission as being tough as balls, but I've might've tried to stealth it with 0-1 points in stealth. There is a way to accomplish all your objectives on the Elizabeth Dane that bypasses most of the trouble in the mission. It is a lifesaver.
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Feb 14, 2014 06:35
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I just wanna say these info dumps are pretty damned interesting.
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Feb 14, 2014 09:10
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Tithin Melias posted:I just wanna say these info dumps are pretty damned interesting. Glad to provide them. Later I'll have a fun one about the plausibility of sewers in video game settings!
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Feb 14, 2014 09:13
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LeJackal posted:Glad to provide them. Later I'll have a fun one about the plausibility of sewers in video game settings! From what I recall, the ones in this game are some of the most bizarre and impractical I've seen.
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Feb 14, 2014 11:10
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Tiggum posted:From what I recall, the ones in this game are some of the most bizarre and impractical I've seen. That's saying something. I'm thinking of Super Mario RPG in particular, but I'm sure there are others.
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Feb 14, 2014 12:05
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Hey, do most people get asked before their Embrace or is it "Oh by the way vampires are real and you're a vampire." Is it common for ghouls to get 'upgraded'?
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Feb 14, 2014 13:17
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Rockopolis posted:Hey, do most people get asked before their Embrace or is it "Oh by the way vampires are real and you're a vampire." It absolutely depends on the siring vampire. The Nosferatu, for example, rarely ghoul anyone they don't intend to embrace later, which is good news for Knox. Honestly the Nosferatu are the least dickheaded clan out there, short of the Salubri.
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Feb 14, 2014 13:58
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Rockopolis posted:Hey, do most people get asked before their Embrace or is it "Oh by the way vampires are real and you're a vampire." Clan tradition is one of them. On one end of the spectrum, we have the Giovanni clan. The vast majority of Giovanni received their Embrace after serving the family for decades as ghouls. (Yes, family - Giovanni pick their ghouls/childer from the ranks of their own mortal descendants). On other end, your typical Caitiff generally wakes up inside some dumpster with a heart that no longer beats and a sire who didn't bother to stick around and explain stuff. Sect traditions are also a thing. For example, embracing ghouls is very uncommon among the Sabbat, mostly because ghouls (outside of battle monstrosities fleshcrafted by Tzimisce) are considered to be literally subhuman bags of poo poo. A Sabbat equivalent of 'promoting' a ghoul would be giving Creation Rites to a shovelhead, elevating them to the status of True Sabbat.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:35
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Fatal Attraction, the "guide to ghouls" has a whole list of the clans and what ghouls and domitors are generally like. I can share some here. Brujah: These ghouls are usually just muscle, as the clan aptitude for Potence and Celerity makes a nasty combo among mortals. All ghouls are drawn into the Brujah's "cause", but only the ones who actually embrace it on an intellectual level, the activists or collegiates, are the ones really considered for the embrace. The rest are just lackeys and bullyboys who often cause more problems than they're worth. Those are usually picked from the ranks of the homeless or gangs. Gangrel: For the most part, Gangrel ghouls are animals. The few human ghouls who show up are misguided attempts at reconnecting the domitor with their fading humanity. But they're abandoned almost every time. Most neonates are Embraced then left alone to either succeed or die. Malkavian: Oh, dear... These ghouls come from just about anywhere, depending on the Malk's desires or "instincts". The Lunatics' blood causes derangements in their ghouls, so every one of them is mad, though not to the extent of their domitor. Many ghouls come from mental institutions or were otherwise already broken before the Malkavian gave them their vitae. Perhaps that's why they were drawn to the ghoul in the first place. An Embrace is just up to the whim of the domitor. If they don't need a childe, they don't make one. If they do make one, they probably couldn't tell you why. Nosferatu: As stated before, the Nosferatu take great care in choosing who to ghoul. The same amount of forethought goes into choosing who gets an Embrace, so if they ghoul you, you're worthy of being one of them. Toreador: Socialites and artistes are the ones most likely to be ghouled by the Toreador, and all of them will butter up their domitor's ego. Of course, you have to go with the latest trend, darling. You don't want to have last season's ghouls hanging around, do you? That alone is a reason for a Toreador to cut off the supply of vitae. True artists, workers of masterpieces, those are the ones likeliest to get the Embrace from the bevy of ghouls that hang on to their domitor's every word. Tremere: Ghouls of the Tremere clan are often used as expendable resources against the clan's enemies. They get tatted up with a ritual thaumaturgical symbol and sent on nightly errands that just so happen to bring them in contact with, say, an Assamite or Tzimisce plot. Then the magic activates and... well, that's probably it for the ghoul. The remainder are used as research assistants. The ones that truly grasp blood magic are the ones most likely to be Embraced. Ventrue: Ventrue ghouls range from yes men for their domitor to unwaveringly loyal right-hand men. The clan prefers to ghoul older mortals, usually sick, to ensure loyalty by avoiding the painful death the vampire prevented. Men and women with the right mind for business and politics are given the real tests of loyalty, ensuring they're right for the Embrace.
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Feb 14, 2014 18:06
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What happens if a vamp cuts off the supply of vitae for a ghoul, anyway?
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Feb 14, 2014 18:11
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TheMcD posted:What happens if a vamp cuts off the supply of vitae for a ghoul, anyway? I believe the answer given earlier in the thread was that the ghoul rapidly ages to whatever they would naturally be if they hadn't been a ghoul, so if they've passed their normal human lifespan then they die.
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Feb 14, 2014 18:14
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So Malkavian ghouls go crazy, but Nosferatu ghouls don't go ugly? Weird.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:05
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Tiggum posted:I believe the answer given earlier in the thread was that the ghoul rapidly ages to whatever they would naturally be if they hadn't been a ghoul, so if they've passed their normal human lifespan then they die. How rapidly? Are we talking Last Crusade fast, or could a "young" ghoul potentially have enough time to find another vampire?
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Feb 14, 2014 20:06
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PFlats posted:So Malkavian ghouls go crazy, but Nosferatu ghouls don't go ugly? Weird. Nosferatu ghouls do go ugly. Not as ugly as Nosferatu, but it doesn't help. This may have been contradicted by later sourcebooks, but it shows up in Hunters Hunted (where there's a ghoul biker gang roaming the US and mugging vampires for their blood). NullBlack posted:How rapidly? Are we talking Last Crusade fast, or could a "young" ghoul potentially have enough time to find another vampire? Not that rapidly. First the ghoul has to burn all of their blood, which isn't a fast process if the ghoul isn't activating disciplines or healing.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:23
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Vicissitude posted:the clan prefers to ghoul older mortals, usually sick, to ensure loyalty by avoiding the painful death the vampire prevented. Does that mean ghouls can't become sick?
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Feb 14, 2014 21:25
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They can't get sick or age. It's one of the few good things about being a ghoul.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:29
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gatz posted:Does that mean ghouls can't become sick? They also can't conceive children.* *May not apply to bullshit splatbook rituals.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:32
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ulmont posted:Nosferatu ghouls do go ugly. Not as ugly as Nosferatu, but it doesn't help. This may have been contradicted by later sourcebooks, but it shows up in Hunters Hunted (where there's a ghoul biker gang roaming the US and mugging vampires for their blood).
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Feb 14, 2014 21:40
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UrbicaMortis posted:They can't get sick or age. It's one of the few good things about being a ghoul. I wish my cat could get ghouled, he always has a cold.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:59
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PFlats posted:Gotcha. That's what I expected, but Knox didn't seem particularly deformed. You should have seen him before.....
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Feb 14, 2014 22:00
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PFlats posted:Gotcha. That's what I expected, but Knox didn't seem particularly deformed. Maybe has has bacne, or stretch marks, or, like, eight nipples. Something that he can cover with his goofy vampire jacket or heavy make-up. Nosferatu ghoul disfigurements are nowhere near as pervasive or obviously supernatural as the kind that comes with being embraced into Clan Ugly. Or maybe he's just relatively new. Ghouls don't need feeding too often to remain ghouls, so if he's only being fed enough to maintain his ghoul-ness it can take quite a while for deformities to start cropping up. Or maybe his deformation is the overwhelming urge to say 'aw man' constantly.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:11
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LeJackal posted:They also can't conceive children.* I'm not sure about this one - I thought that was actually how the revenant families were created, though hundreds of years of inbreeding ghouls?
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Feb 14, 2014 22:27
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ulmont posted:I'm not sure about this one - I thought that was actually how the revenant families were created, though hundreds of years of inbreeding ghouls? More like breeding families from which to select ghouls, but let me get out my oWoD books to double check. I know in nWoD they can't normally conceive.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:33
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PFlats posted:Gotcha. That's what I expected, but Knox didn't seem particularly deformed. He's got yellow eyes. Edit: Also I want to say it's ghoul women who can't bear a child to term without coming off the vampire blood. Ghoul men can father children. I think.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:34
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HopperUK posted:He's got yellow eyes. I've got Fatal Addiction open and we were all wrong in one way or another. Ghouls can fall ill, though the Vitae in their body slows or diminishes many symptoms. The process halts cancer in its tracks, at least. Ghouls do manifest, subtly, effects or flaws of their clans, though this effect varies. Finally, ghouls can breed*, though a fetus will be ghouled instantly and so cannot be brought to term that way - no problem for male ghouls, though, they can impregnate all they'd like.
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Feb 14, 2014 23:31
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Ghoul dump! Vampires burn blood every night--1BP/night just to wake up and "be alive." Ghouls burn 1BP/month to retain their ghoulness. This blood use is on top of any other blood that is burned to heal, power disciplines, etc. The Vampire Blood in a ghoul's system is "separate" from their own blood--considering they typically ingest it, that shouldn't be a surprise. You can't get a step towards a blood bond to the ghoul's master by draining one, for example. As mentioned, ghouls don't age, don't tend to get sick, and can heal almost as good as vampires, provided they have enough vampire blood in their system. That's why Mercurio was able to hold it together despite being used as a pinata--and why he said that the vamp blood stopped working. He blew through the amount in his system to heal the most mortal of his wounds. Ghouls automatically get a dot of potence--so even the scrawniest of ghouls or smallest rat is surprisingly strong. Brutes become almost inhumanly strong. They can also pick up other disciplines their domitor (vampire sugardaddy) has. The physical disciplines (celerity, potence, fortitude) are easier, but any discipline could be learned with enough training and time. Beware Tzimisce fleshcrafting ghouls. They are limited in how many "dots" of a discipline they can learn--it's dependant on the generation of the vampire blood they are given. So the ghoul of a low generation elder could be more powerful than a common high gen vampire. In terms of procreation...male ghouls have it easier. Because the blood induces a quasi-static state for your body, and pregnancy is a highly transformative condition, most female ghouls either can't get pregnant, or it lasts for a long, long time...this is really one of those "really??" questions that crop up that doesn't have a hard answer. Ghouls can also reflect their domitor's clan flaws. Nosferatu ghouls develop skin conditions or other deformations. Malkavian ghouls get unhinged or some other random strength disorder. Brujah ghouls tend to have anger issues, etc. Ghouls of some clans don't get much of this at all (tremere and ventrue, for example). The longer one is a ghoul, the more this develops. Which brings us ghouls running out of blood. If one does for whatever reason (no more supply, blew through it healing or powering disciplines, etc), a few things happen. First, of course, is that they lose access to the perks of ghouldom--disciplines, healing, resistance to injury and illness, etc. Over the course of the next few weeks they'll start to "Catch up" to their natural age. This is a real concern for Mercurio as he's over 50 but looks to be in his 20s-30s. Here's hoping he gets resupplied soon. If they do get resupplied the reversion process halts, but whatever aging has occurred remains. If the ghoul is really old (80-100+) he'll likely drop dead within a week or two. If truly ancient (200+) he might only have a few days, if that. Less "Last Crusade" and more "Forever Young" (the mel gibson flick from when he was known as a handsome leading actor and not for being King rear end in a top hat). Ghouls can survive going from vamp to vamp to get their fix, though that can get difficult since most vamps don't hand out their blood willingly. Ghouls are also susceptible to the Blood Bond--extremely so since they require a regular infusion to keep going.
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Feb 14, 2014 23:38
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OAquinas posted:Because the blood induces a quasi-static state for your body, and pregnancy is a highly transformative condition, most female ghouls either can't get pregnant, or it lasts for a long, long time...this is really one of those "really??" questions that crop up that doesn't have a hard answer. The Fatal Addition FAQ suggests that it was deliberately left out. quote:Q: Can ghouls get pregnant?
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Feb 15, 2014 00:18
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Yeah. There are a number of Really, Really Dumb™ questions that shouldn't need to be asked/answered from a systemic view. It would be like going up to Stan Lee and asking him if the Thing's dork is made of the same orange rock as the rest of him.
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Feb 15, 2014 00:44
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To think; they wouldn't have these questions if they realized that aging is a separate phenomenon from gestation and maturation. Aging is the body bit-by-bit breaking down and not repairing fully (and so makes sense that ghouling/vamping would halt it); gestation and maturation are the body building up. I realize, I've just brought science into fantasy; a kitten somewhere is dead now.
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Feb 15, 2014 00:51
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OAquinas posted:Ghouls can also reflect their domitor's clan flaws. Nosferatu ghouls develop skin conditions or other deformations. Malkavian ghouls get unhinged or some other random strength disorder. Brujah ghouls tend to have anger issues, etc. Ghouls of some clans don't get much of this at all (tremere and ventrue, for example). The longer one is a ghoul, the more this develops. So a ghoul opportunistic enough to feed from multiple domitors could develop Brujah mood swings, Nosferatu boils, and Malkavian paranoia? Better than getting some Giovanni/Lasombra/Ravnos hybrid Aspergers, I suppose.
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Feb 15, 2014 01:50
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SpookyTurtle posted:So a ghoul opportunistic enough to feed from multiple domitors could develop Brujah mood swings, Nosferatu boils, and Malkavian paranoia? Essentially, yes. There's actually a section in Ghouls: Fatal Addiction where a free ghoul who's taken to hunting vampires gives other free ghouls advice on how to take out vampires and tells them what the different vampire clans' blood will do to them. Bear in mind though that the oddities of the blood will usually only become very pronounced when a ghoul has been drinking a particular clan's blood for a few months. And AFAIK there aren't any actual effects in the system for drinking the blood of one vampire or another, it's just flavor.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:05
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OAquinas posted:Yeah. There are a number of Really, Really Dumb™ questions that shouldn't need to be asked/answered from a systemic view. It would be like going up to Stan Lee and asking him if the Thing's dork is made of the same orange rock as the rest of him.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:40
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NullBlack posted:I realize, I've just brought science into fantasy; a kitten somewhere is dead now. To late. White Wolf already did that. Dr Netchurch, Malkavian researcher, discovered the Blood Point in Time of Thin Blood. He called it the 'vitae efficiency unit'.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:42
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NullBlack posted:To think; they wouldn't have these questions if they realized that aging is a separate phenomenon from gestation and maturation. Aging is the body bit-by-bit breaking down and not repairing fully (and so makes sense that ghouling/vamping would halt it); gestation and maturation are the body building up. Ahh, but wait! Vamping explicitly stalls the maturation process (just ask Claudia), so it makes sense that ghouling would as well... ...drat, there went another kitten.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:47
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Vicissitude posted:To late. White Wolf already did that. Dr Netchurch, Malkavian researcher, discovered the Blood Point in Time of Thin Blood. He called it the 'vitae efficiency unit'. Nah, that's perfectly fine; it's like the Thaum. It's applying existing scientific laws to fantasy that kills kittens. ulmont posted:Ahh, but wait! Vamping explicitly stalls the maturation process (just ask Claudia), so it makes sense that ghouling would as well... Yes, but it's not THAT it explicitly stalls it, it's WHY does it stall it? Aging makes sense, given that it's effectively the sum of billions of tiny, tiny injuries over time; vampirism boosts the healing process, thus negating the injuries such that they can't accumulate (The fact that ex-ghouls catch up with their chronological age is another problem, but can be ignored because it's cool). Maturation isn't an injury; it's practically the polar opposite. Now I'm just imagining an infant being embraced. Eternally young and eternally stupid, given that the brain isn't fully developed. Kittens are overrated. Who's Claudia?
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Feb 15, 2014 03:04
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