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Why is linear reinforcement bad. Also on the subject of taking damage and stuff, have you tried dodging.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:53
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 02:12 |
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There's a lot of new visual stuff to like in this patch. I guess with all this balance stuff I'm glad I'd already got the lion's share of my gear needs met. I've only got a couple of problems. Mapping out areas seems to take longer, and spelunker potions don't add to the map. I also wish he kept the save and quit thing separate from the settings. On a separate note, I'm too busy to really go nuts with the upside down slope blocks, but so far I can't think of any new crazy physics interactions. I'll get on that once I've had some time to play with the rest of the stuff added to the game. Akett fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 04:57
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Devour or Fire posted:Also on the subject of taking damage and stuff, have you tried dodging. I could but I figured I'd try an easier solution first which is to will myself back in time to slap Red for having the idea of giving all the hardmode bosses fast, nearly undodgeable projectiles that they spam like lasers are going out of style.
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Feb 14, 2014 05:00
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:On the other hand, I just came across a duck. I think we have a new winner for "Worst Nexus Mod".
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Feb 14, 2014 05:18
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Devour or Fire posted:Why is linear reinforcement bad. Because people like having multiple ways to do things. I don't think making the bosses so hard that you have to build an arena and wire it up with statues is something that this game desperately needed. quote:Also on the subject of taking damage and stuff, have you tried dodging.  HOLY poo poo! So that's why I keep getting killed! The solution to success is to be a perfect warrior who never gets hit in the game ever! That'll solve the constant nerfs to everything! You've done it now; you solved Terraria combat.  Seriously though, explain how 'Mana Potions make your magic weaker when you drink them' is a good  feature?
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Feb 14, 2014 05:38
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Be careful with quickstacking money, there's some bug where my plat coins just erased my pile of gold from my bank and also deleted my silver and copper.
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Feb 14, 2014 05:42
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Devour or Fire posted:Be careful with quickstacking money, there's some bug where my plat coins just erased my pile of gold from my bank and also deleted my silver and copper. Patch Notes- Nerfed money.
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Feb 14, 2014 06:23
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There is a new spectre armor mask.
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Feb 14, 2014 06:59
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For the life of me I will never understand devs "balancing" single player experiences by nerfing the hell out of things. I feel like MMOs in general have given us this mindset that we need to constantly tinker and make sure players are playing ever style across the board. I get that in an MMO setting players/playstyles need to be balanced so that everyone is roughly equal and not breaking game mechanics. In a single player game, the only aim should be for player fun. Getting half of the decent ways to run around and progress (In a free-world sandboxy type game no less) nerfed to hell isn't fun for anyone. Bring the relative power of the things that are being passed up UP to where the flavor of the week weapons/armor are. That's fun. It just reminds me of all those minecraft mods where the modders will start out with a neat idea and mod it in, and then 3 months down the line when that mod is popular they're "balancing" it so that the thing their mod adds takes much more time to make and get the materials for. But to what end? I don't know how many mods I've tossed just because it was annoying collecting so many items, mining so many blocks, or making 10 smaller pieces to combine to get the bigger piece to combine into the thing. Is it balanced? Or is it just adding tedium? Having ways to break the game and get powerful things early is fun. Getting new items and weapons is fun. Getting a 15% nerf to guns because people aren't using swords isn't fun. It's adding tedium.
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Feb 14, 2014 07:26
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Stuff like this is why I fear for Starbound's end content. Sure, it's looking to be shaping up okay so far aside from the enemy balance at the moment (Common wildlife murders you harder than the Bosses by a large margin, unless you one or two-shot them first. Birds hit you harder than a UFO and it's tiny army wielding tanks and rocket launchers. None of the placeholder bosses can kill you from full health in one hit when you arrive to gather the ore for next armor tier like some generic wildlife can.) But with the whole "Sector X will be PvP enabled by Default and you can group up in guilds to take on other guilds and other planned endgame stuff", I just think, why do we need potential raid bosses in our happy little sandbox games? I am a simple man who desires to build the coolest log cabin in the universe while beating up bosses with what I can craft instead of looking up where to find fire miniguns or placing down 20 sentry turrets to beat the boss for me. I mean, I'd be happy for stuff to be there. But I can't think of how they'd do that sort of thing without introducing the whole "Sorry Billy, but you can't progress to that last tier unless you join a small army of players" situation. It could turn out to not end up like every single other attempt, but on this subject as much as I will probably play the hell out of the full game when it comes out whenever the hell, I'll believe it when I see it I guess. Section Z fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 10:26
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Devour or Fire posted:Why is linear reinforcement bad. I think you have this game confused for a shmup. Although, if wings allowed perfect hovering with omnidirectional controls...
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Feb 15, 2014 00:16
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Freakazoid_ posted:I think you have this game confused for a shmup. The reason the earlier bosses are more fun to fight is that you only have a few patterns to watch for, so they CAN be learned, dodged, and counterattacked. Later bosses and swarms are just a spray of undodgeable, random projectiles at super high speed to fill the screen.
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Feb 15, 2014 00:26
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I tried to make some kind of dojo, thanks to the traveling merchant.
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Feb 15, 2014 00:34
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Comparing the proposed changes with the actual changes, it looks like he actually did dial back some of the nerfs a bit. For example, you only need to beat one mech boss to get the Mushroom Spear (you needed to beat all three in the proposed list) and there's no damage nerf. Similarly, they removed the proposed requirement to beat a mech boss before Chlorophyte starts spawning. On the other hand, new nerfs were added, such as needing to beat Plantera to get the Autohammer. On top of that, they added a bunch more weapon buffs. On top of the Wasp Gun, Scourge of the Corrupter, Shotgun, Marrow, Ice Bow, Rod of Discord, Rainbow Rod, and Rainbow Gun, the patch also buffs the Terra Blade, True Excalibur, True Night's Edge, Unholy Spear, Golem Fist, and Crystal Leaf. So it's not like it's just a plain old nerf patch. The problem is that they nerfed everyone's favorite weapons (Mushroom Spear, Frost Armor, Golden Shower, Chlorophyte bullets) in order to buff garbage most people don't have any interest in trying out. Although making the mech bosses harder is just ridiculous. There's just no way for a player with Molten Armor to reasonably handle them, the only chance to beat them is gearing up. The Destroyer's way too fast and fires way too many lasers to reasonably dodge, the other two hit like speeding trucks, and there's no checks to ensure the player's built up their gear before Skeletron loving Prime busts out of the sky and kills you.
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Feb 15, 2014 01:30
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Well, on the upside, the twins have had a bit of a nerf, they only transform at around 1/3 health rather than 1/2. Also, I like the Destroyer headpiece.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:44
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Vib Rib posted:The reason the earlier bosses are more fun to fight is that you only have a few patterns to watch for, so they CAN be learned, dodged, and counterattacked. Later bosses and swarms are just a spray of undodgeable, random projectiles at super high speed to fill the screen.
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Feb 15, 2014 03:03
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Main Paineframe posted:Comparing the proposed changes with the actual changes, it looks like he actually did dial back some of the nerfs a bit. For example, you only need to beat one mech boss to get the Mushroom Spear (you needed to beat all three in the proposed list) and there's no damage nerf. Similarly, they removed the proposed requirement to beat a mech boss before Chlorophyte starts spawning. On the other hand, new nerfs were added, such as needing to beat Plantera to get the Autohammer. Everything in here is like he saw nobody was playing melee in the endgame and it was all ranged/magic, so he took the biggest, clumsiest steps possible to try and make melee more viable by just kludging some numbers around and stacking on pointless nerfs. The new content and QoL changes look good but I wish they didn't come in such a terrible bundle.
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Feb 15, 2014 04:04
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Vib Rib posted:I still can't wrap my head around the mana potion nerf, though. What the gently caress. gently caress everybody who uses magic?  It's like he doesn't get the problem with melee is having to be inches away from the enemies and thus eating poo poo constantly or something.
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Feb 15, 2014 04:07
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So I guess the Pumpkin moon and Frost moon are impossible to do solo now?
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Feb 15, 2014 04:17
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Zereth posted:Well, with the Mana Flower, magic effectively had infinite MP, so, um. The way better solution to this is just make using a melee weapon drastically reduce the damage you take. Something like a flat % damage reduction that applies when you swing the weapon for say 5-10s and goes away if you switch to a different weapon. Alternatively just relegate melee weapons to being a secondary weapon, and give people a reason to take swings with them that buffs up the style they're supposed to support. Sucks that he went with "nerf everything else to the bad choice's level" though.
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Feb 15, 2014 04:27
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Vib Rib posted:I still can't wrap my head around the mana potion nerf, though. What the gently caress. I can see where he's coming from with the mana nerf, since people equip the Mana Flower and have effectively infinite MP and can therefore just blasted wildly away without the slightest thought for mana conservation. It's not like I ever really bothered to precisely aim my magic shots; the stuff I used had a high rate-of-fire and Mana Flowers are super easy to get, so I just held down the mouse button and shot in the foe's general direction. So now drinking a mana potion comes with a brief damage reduction to make people at least a little more careful about only shooting when they can hit. In any case, according to the wiki it's only a 5-second debuff, which is nothing - all it does it make battles a little bit longer.
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Feb 15, 2014 04:29
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Misandu posted:The way better solution to this is just make using a melee weapon drastically reduce the damage you take. Something like a flat % damage reduction that applies when you swing the weapon for say 5-10s and goes away if you switch to a different weapon. Alternatively just relegate melee weapons to being a secondary weapon, and give people a reason to take swings with them that buffs up the style they're supposed to support. Sucks that he went with "nerf everything else to the bad choice's level" though. Or, you know, some sort of accessory that grants damage reduction and vampirism for meleers and another step in the sniper scope that grants vampirism and extra health infusions on crits for ranged players. But nah, he'd rather make Blizzard's "balance" patches look sane and laser-focused. Main Paineframe posted:In any case, according to the wiki it's only a 5-second debuff, which is nothing - all it does it make battles a little bit longer. Actually, it stacks on itself if you drink a mana pot in that five second window, and can actually stack high enough to be a 50% damage reduction. You know, on top of the 40% damage reduction (and 20% increased mana cost) from wearing the only helm that gives you any non-potion-based sustain. Because gently caress you, apparently.
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Feb 15, 2014 04:41
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Main Paineframe posted:I can see where he's coming from with the mana nerf, since people equip the Mana Flower and have effectively infinite MP and can therefore just blasted wildly away without the slightest thought for mana conservation. It's not like I ever really bothered to precisely aim my magic shots; the stuff I used had a high rate-of-fire and Mana Flowers are super easy to get, so I just held down the mouse button and shot in the foe's general direction. So now drinking a mana potion comes with a brief damage reduction to make people at least a little more careful about only shooting when they can hit. In any case, according to the wiki it's only a 5-second debuff, which is nothing - all it does it make battles a little bit longer. If the problem is with the Mana Flower why add in a round-about weirdly implemented nerf to casting in general... when you can just nerf Mana Flower?
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Feb 15, 2014 04:50
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Misandu posted:If the problem is with the Mana Flower why add in a round-about weirdly implemented nerf to casting in general... when you can just nerf Mana Flower?
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Feb 15, 2014 04:59
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Zereth posted:gently caress you everybody who's not melee, I guess? And gently caress your wrists if you are melee. Someone needs to tell him that lack of auto-swing isn't a balancing feature, it just makes your playerbase's hands miserable.
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Feb 15, 2014 05:04
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Kyrosiris posted:And gently caress your wrists if you are melee. Someone needs to tell him that lack of auto-swing isn't a balancing feature, it just makes your playerbase's hands miserable. I've actually been posting in the official feedback thread in the forums, and pointed this out as why I was never going to go melee. gently caress knows if anyone cares about it, since half the posters there are just bitching at anyone who dares to think that the mage nerfs were a bit much, or sometimes at people who are annoyed about any of the changes. I ended up getting loving pissed when somebody met my question of 'why not make melee and range better rather than over nerf magic' with 'You want to feel powerful like with the old Spectre set? I bet Coockie Clicker is too hard for you'. At least the devs are kind of listening, and pointing out why they did some of this stuff. The official explaination for the mana potion sickness was basically that there are other ways to regain mana and they were annoyed that mages just drank like alchoholics and wanted to make them more tactical. Unfortunately they also wanted mages to be more support.
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Feb 15, 2014 05:26
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Ashsaber posted:I've actually been posting in the official feedback thread in the forums, and pointed this out as why I was never going to go melee. gently caress knows if anyone cares about it Nah, one of the official testers - and the moron who basically single-handedly made all the decisions about the mage nerfs - states that "no one ever bitched about that (weapons that don't auto-swing/auto-fire)". It's sycophancy all the way down.
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Feb 15, 2014 05:37
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Zereth posted:Well, with the Mana Flower, magic effectively had infinite MP, so, um. Main Paineframe posted:since people equip the Mana Flower and have effectively infinite MP and can therefore just blasted wildly away without the slightest thought for mana conservation My point is that both ranged and magic used a consumeable, priced item, but now magic users get penalties for using it. It's not going to change combat strategy at all, really, no one's going to stop attacking in the middle of a laser hellstorm and go "well better let my mana recharge so I don't go over". Misandu posted:Alternatively just relegate melee weapons to being a secondary weapon, and give people a reason to take swings with them that buffs up the style they're supposed to support. Of course, I think the way mana recharges slower at low levels and very, very slowly if you're moving is stupid anyway, because as has been said, standing still in any hardmode boss fight is suicide. But at least there's mana regen potions (which are all but necessary) to combat that. Vib Rib fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 06:13
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The mana potions debuff lasts for 5 seconds, starts at 20%, and decreases at 4% a second over the duration. It was most likely put in because mana management was buying 100 potions from the wizard and chugging them whenever, or maybe using the mana flower to do it automatically if you are retarded. If this somehow ruins magic for you then I dunno. Red never should have put lifesteal in the game since I can still facetank Plantera and the Golem with a Razorpine.
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Feb 15, 2014 06:27
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Devour or Fire posted:The mana potions debuff lasts for 5 seconds, starts at 20%, and decreases at 4% a second over the duration. It was most likely put in because mana management was buying 100 potions from the wizard and chugging them whenever, or maybe using the mana flower to do it automatically if you are retarded. Whereas melee management was holding down (or spamming, depending on if you chose a weapon that Red in his infinite wisdom feels is "imbalanced" with auto-swing) left click and ranged management was holding down left click and occasionally buying/making a few thousand bullets. But hey, who gives a poo poo about consistency? Edit: Also, you're ignoring the 33% increase in mana consumption and the fact that the mana potion sickness buff stacks on itself if you use another potion within that window, and can stack high enough to be a 50% decrease in damage, leaving you at 10% of your should-be damage output. 
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Feb 15, 2014 06:32
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Dang I guess magic is unusable then because the endgame lifesteal armor has a bunch of penalties.
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Feb 15, 2014 06:39
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Devour or Fire posted:The mana potions debuff lasts for 5 seconds, starts at 20%, and decreases at 4% a second over the duration. It was most likely put in because mana management was buying 100 potions from the wizard and chugging them whenever, or maybe using the mana flower to do it automatically if you are retarded. This isn't just re: magic, this is about all the weird, arbitrary debuffs getting thrown out on all sorts of things that didn't need them, because Red's trying to approach "balance" based on the skewed input of a few people who've sunk way too many hours and thinks this needs to be as over-tweaked as some competitive fighter/MMO, bringing a bigger and bigger divide between the game's open-ended sandbox aspects and its tightly-controlled progression and increasingly-rigid combat. But nevermind, let's just concede the other person's point with passive-aggressive hyperbole, that'll prove they're wrong. 
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Feb 15, 2014 08:31
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How can you whine about that when your hugbox unironically says rebalancing single player games is wrong and sperglords who sunk way too many hours into the game (how many hours is this exactly) are explicitly manipulating Red into loving poo poo up for the insignificant. Is liking imbalance the correct and proper opinion. Somebody make a game which is functionally a bunch of arbitrary garbage dumped into a vacuum, new junk is added periodically but nothing is ever changed because it's your world, bitch. It will be popular with people.
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Feb 15, 2014 09:06
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Yeah, see, that's the kind of hyperbole I mean. Like "if you don't like this particular change, you obviously must hate all change", and how "he's balancing this on too high a difficulty grade" becomes "autist sperglord hugbox whiner bitch".
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Feb 15, 2014 09:13
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Kyrosiris posted:* Fixed a bug where progression in single-player was possible. This is reasonable. e: I still want to know what you mean by "skewed input of a few people who've sunk way too many hours" although I'm sort of assuming you're just crying about reddit. fuepi fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 09:17
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Misandu posted:If the problem is with the Mana Flower why add in a round-about weirdly implemented nerf to casting in general... when you can just nerf Mana Flower? It isn't just with the Mana Flower - the problem is that unlike health potions, there was no negative effect whatsoever associated with drinking mana potions so you could chug them constantly and never run out of mana. The Mana Flower just automates that process so you don't even have to take the fraction of a second needed to hit the quick-mana key. Kyrosiris posted:Whereas melee management was holding down (or spamming, depending on if you chose a weapon that Red in his infinite wisdom feels is "imbalanced" with auto-swing) left click and ranged management was holding down left click and occasionally buying/making a few thousand bullets. Actually, melee management would be releasing the mouse button and backing off every once in a while when your health is low and potion sickness is preventing you from recovering it, forcing you to play the dodge game with low health and being basically unable to attack at all for the up-to-60-seconds until you can refill your health. Compared to that, having to stop magicing for five seconds looks like a quibble. It's not like mana sickness is destroying magic forever - all you have to do is stop shooting for a few seconds. If you're having to use a second mana potion within five seconds of the first, then you're doing it wrong. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 11:05
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Devour or Fire posted:I still want to know what you mean by "skewed input of a few people who've sunk way too many hours" although I'm sort of assuming you're just crying about reddit. Am I supposed to know what's going on in Reddit enough to comment? Main Paineframe posted:Actually, melee management would be releasing the mouse button and backing off every once in a while when your health is low and potion sickness is preventing you from recovering it, forcing you to play the dodge game with low health and being basically unable to attack at all for the up-to-60-seconds until you can refill your health. Compared to that, having to stop magicing for five seconds looks like a quibble.
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Feb 15, 2014 11:12
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Vib Rib posted:But all classes have to do that. Now that the Spectre Armor has been nerfed, yeah. Though melee characters have to do it much more often since they get hit more. The combat balance changes are mostly at least semi-understandable; they don't annoy me nearly as much as the pointless "gently caress you" changes like changing waterleaf's bloom behavior and increasing corruption/crimson/hallow spread range. EDIT: There are some undocumented changes, too - for example, Goldfish now only drop the Goldfish item when killed by the Bug Net, and the Goldfish item no longer has a sell value. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 19:42
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The biggest letdown of this patch is that weapon racks aren't actually functional. I was looking forward to showing off my sooooords
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Feb 16, 2014 06:38
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Well, I have to say, the Stynger is absurd with the Shroomite rocket hat. With my only two offensive accessories being a Destroyer Emblem and a Celestial Stone I used an Unreal Stynger to take out the twins like 10 times a night, and each eye only takes like 10-15 well placed bolts. It also let me get to wave 14 of the Pumpkin Moon, something I didn't get to until I got the Blizzard staff on my mage. On another note, the Celestial Stone is pretty drat great. It's essentially the Destroyer Emblem -4% crit chance, +4 defence, 2hp/sec regen and a move speed boost. Its honestly pretty drat nice. E: Does anyone know the spawn rate for the travelling merchant? I've only had him show up ~5 times in several hours of gamplay. I really want to get an ammo box or three from him, and maybe a mysterious cape. Ashsaber fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 18:20
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