Skyrim Modding: Just Spent 10 Hours Modding, Time to Play

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Skyrim Modding: Just Spent 10 Hours Modding, Time to Play

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Inverness posted:

Is Smart Souls alone okay?

And I guess that mean Apocalypse's Cloak of Souls spell is out. Good thing I haven't used any of those since I updated. My Papyrus log doesn't show that error.

According to thread, the person that made that script was retarded?

Like ASG, Smart Souls won't break anything on it's own, but it won't help you if something is conflicting either. However unlike Smart Souls, which doesn't touch any records (being a SKSE plugin), with ASG you can at least load it after everything else if you want to be sure that vanilla records won't break. For mods that add a new soul trap effect though, you have to patch it yourself.

As for the change, the script was poorly implemented, but USKP is a community effort and no one person can ever be blamed for any fuckup. The person who wrote it should have done it differently, but it also wasn't reviewed before going in, which IMO is the bigger issue.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 04:08

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 12:42

LtSmash: Dec 18, 2005; Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Inverness posted:

Does the new SKSE alpha version, with the memory fix, require any additional configuration to get that to kick in?

You need to put the settings in your skse.ini file

code:

[Memory]
DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=X
ScrapHeapSizeMB=Y

Where X and Y are the mb values to use. Vanilla is 512/256 I think.

quote:

Arthmoor's response is pretty Arthmoor.

quote:

Or if you took your anger out on the actual culprits here (hint: it's not the USKP) maybe something productive could come of all this.

You seem to be of the opinion that the USKP is subordinate to others and must cater to their every whim and not fix things in radical ways when necessary. Yes, it was necessary in this instance. If you want an unofficial patch that's beholden to every conceivable potential conflict cause by OTHER PEOPLE then Morrowind is the game you want.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 06:33

Synthwave Crusader: Feb 13, 2011

Isn't this the goddamn reason that they decided to use false ESMs for USKP 2.0???

# ? Feb 15, 2014 06:39

mbt: Aug 13, 2012

LtSmash posted:

Arthmoor's response is pretty Arthmoor.

Holy poo poo Arthmoor, half of every mod on the nexus uses USKP and forwards fixes. I'd say that to his face but I like not being banned.

Can I just...not use the newest patch with those changes? Or is that an older change people just now figured out?

# ? Feb 15, 2014 07:09

Synthwave Crusader: Feb 13, 2011

Burns posted:

I wish there was a mod that converted the hearthfire homes into your own inn. I mean dovKiin isnt expected to slay dragons forever right?

Not exactly an inn, but it's a farm that becomes fully operational with generated income.

The mod author is thinking of expanding the greenhouse and adding in an alchemy shop to generate more ingredients. I think I'll try this out for myself now.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 08:03

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Mortimer posted:

Holy poo poo Arthmoor, half of every mod on the nexus uses USKP and forwards fixes. I'd say that to his face but I like not being banned.

Can I just...not use the newest patch with those changes? Or is that an older change people just now figured out?

Yeah that's shaping up to be one hell of a slapfight for no goddamn reason. The gently caress good is an unofficial "patch" for a Bethesda game that includes code that can can irrevocably brake save games if subjected to "3rd party influences" (re: mods that reference said code)?

At least it seems to be something from the 2.0.1a patch, not the 2.0.1 patch?

Ernie Muppari fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Feb 15, 2014

# ? Feb 15, 2014 08:22

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Ernie Muppari posted:

At least it seems to be something from the 2.0.1a patch, not the 2.0.1 patch?

No, it's in both. They need to release a 2.0.1b which removes all this completely, and try again with 2.0.2. I have suggested this, and I suspect that's what they'll do.

I don't think Arthmoor quite gets how bad it is yet. He's right that USKP can't account for every mod, but if there's a conflict it needs to fail as gracefully as possible, and never wreck saves. A bit of defensive coding here would have made a huge difference. But, the sort of defensive coding you need to do in Papyrus is not something you normally need to do with e.g. the Java VM or .Net or something. Papyrus is tricky.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 08:48

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Inverness posted:

Does the new SKSE alpha version, with the memory fix, require any additional configuration to get that to kick in?

In addition to what LtSmash said.
This can help you find the right values to put in SKSE's ini for your setup.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 09:58

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Kilroy posted:

No, it's in both. They need to release a 2.0.1b which removes all this completely, and try again with 2.0.2. I have suggested this, and I suspect that's what they'll do.

I don't think Arthmoor quite gets how bad it is yet. He's right that USKP can't account for every mod, but if there's a conflict it needs to fail as gracefully as possible, and never wreck saves. A bit of defensive coding here would have made a huge difference. But, the sort of defensive coding you need to do in Papyrus is not something you normally need to do with e.g. the Java VM or .Net or something. Papyrus is tricky.

Well farts. I guess I'm lucky that I'm not playing with any mods that conflict with this.

Ernie Muppari fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Feb 15, 2014

# ? Feb 15, 2014 10:28

omg chael crash: Jul 8, 2012; Macys paid for this. Noodle Boy and Bonby are bad at video games and even worse friends.

Is there anyway for SPERG to actually tell me which auto perk I've gained?

# ? Feb 15, 2014 11:08

Burns: May 10, 2008

Inverness posted:

Does the new SKSE alpha version, with the memory fix, require any additional configuration to get that to kick in?

Make a new txt file in your SKSE folder in Data, then add

[memory]
DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=768
ScrapHeadSizeMB=256

save the file as SKSE.ini

That should do it.

Burns fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Feb 15, 2014

# ? Feb 15, 2014 14:33

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

So what exactly is this USKP issue? I know I've updated and had some mods need to explicitly update themselves but I never looked at the USKP changes.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 17:24

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Mr. Crow posted:

So what exactly is this USKP issue? I know I've updated and had some mods need to explicitly update themselves but I never looked at the USKP changes.

Bassically someone on the UP team did some poor coding in the magicSoulTrapFXScript script and noone caught before they released it.
The result is that if you use a mod that touches the Soul Trap MGEF entries and/or use a mod that references that script, then - unless those mods have been updated with the properties the USKP added to the script - your save file will be somewhat screwed.

More details here.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Feb 15, 2014

# ? Feb 15, 2014 17:31

poptart_fairy: Apr 8, 2009; by R. Guyovich

What's considered an 'artifact' as far as SPERG is concerned? Unique, magical weapons?

# ? Feb 15, 2014 17:31

Synthwave Crusader: Feb 13, 2011

poptart_fairy posted:

What's considered an 'artifact' as far as SPERG is concerned? Unique, magical weapons?

Anything on this page

# ? Feb 15, 2014 17:45

poptart_fairy: Apr 8, 2009; by R. Guyovich

Scyantific posted:

Anything on this page

Awesome, thanks. Makes planning my weapon choice a lot easier.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 17:51

Inverness: Feb 4, 2009; Fully configurable personal assistant.

This just makes me wonder why Bethesda didn't use an existing script engine like Lua, as opposed to Yet Another In-House Language which would inevitably be worse.

There is no way they can match the sheer amount of man hours that has gone into a project like Lua.

Inverness fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Feb 15, 2014

# ? Feb 15, 2014 18:49

Bholder: Feb 26, 2013

So what does "saves being screwed" actually convey?

# ? Feb 15, 2014 19:14

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Inverness posted:

This just makes me wonder why Bethesda didn't use an existing script engine like Lua, as opposed to Yet Another In-House Language which would inevitably be worse.

This isn't really a "papyrus sucks"-case though. The problem here is simply bad code.

Edit:

Bholder posted:

So what does "saves being screwed" actually convey?

The USKP version of the script called without the properties USKP added, will get stuck in an infinite loop. This will result in the standard badly-coded-papyrus-script problems: savegame bloat, slowdown of script execution, etc.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Feb 15, 2014

# ? Feb 15, 2014 19:17

chaosapiant: Oct 10, 2012; White Line Fever

Bholder posted:

So what does "saves being screwed" actually convey?

It usually means that eventually, one day, you'll starting having bugs. They might be noticeable, or they might not. They might gently caress up your game, or they might not. If and when they do, you won't know what caused it anyway. There should be a graphic for hosed Skyrim saves in the same way that we have one for X-Com and Dark Souls.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 19:25

Fat_Cow: Dec 12, 2009; Every time I yank a jawbone from a skull and ram it into an eyesocket, I know I'm building a better future.

How do workshop files interact with NMM? Will it show up on the mod list?

I plan on using http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=143840115 and I have no other workshop files since I grabbed everything else from Nexus.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 20:22

Agents are GO!: Dec 29, 2004

Alright folks, Ive Lootified version 7 of Immersive Armors!

To get this to work, you'll need to delete the old Lootification of IA in Lootification.xml and replace it with this. (I couldn't get it to work without doing that.)

Also, as I know Hoth reads this thread, and I say this with the utmost respect and gratitude for this awesome mod, gently caress each and every one of your 400+ shields.

(I had to remember Turbo Pascal eventually to alter a script to export EDID as opposed to Names, so I could speed that process along. Seriously, gently caress those shields. If I never read the word "Triskele" again I will be a happy man.)

Fake Edit: it was at IAShieldOvalSplintHeavyBlueGreenYellowTriquetra where I realized Hoth hated me, personally.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 20:22

a kitten: Aug 5, 2006

So if I'm still using USKP 2.0.0a I should be ok? All these hours I've been plugging into Skyrim lately have been the longest, almost entirely crash/big bug free stretch of playing any Bethesda game ever and I've basically been afraid to update anything or add too many more mods to my list because I'm afraid of sending the whole thing crashing down like the proverbial house of cards. :ohdear:

# ? Feb 15, 2014 20:28

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

The best thing that could come of this is enough backlash that Arthmoor throws a tantrum and permanently leaves the missing scene. I've never seen a more replaceable and insufferable oval office with their head so far up their own rear end, I would gladly let my save be sacrificed if it means he disappears, the community would be so much better off.

Edit: on the topic of shields and IA (which is excellent) is there a similar mood for shields? I'm not a fan of the Celtic / Nordic boring wood shields, I want some heavy steel bulky variation in my life.

Mr. Crow fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 15, 2014

# ? Feb 15, 2014 20:28

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

a kitten posted:

So if I'm still using USKP 2.0.0a I should be ok?

If you don't have any mod that touch the Soul Trap MGEF entries and/or use mods that references the script magicSoulTrapFXScript, then you're fine.
Alternatively; If you do use such mods, but you haven't used Soul Trap or the custom spell that utilises magicSoulTrapFXScript, you're fine as well.

If you want to be sure, you can temporarily enable Papyrus' logging and see if your log is a mess or not.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 20:33

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

"Noo! Don't make a patch to fix something our patch broke! :qq:

" lol

So uh, repeating my question from pages ago: Are there guidelines I can follow to figure out what (if any) bash tags I should add to mods I use that aren't already tagged by BOSS? Because I really suspect that there are some mods that both my BF and I use that alter the same leveled lists but aren't tagged as such.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 21:09

Broniki: Sep 2, 2009; Feminist Frequency is one of many women targeted by the Gamergate harassment campaign. Donate today!

Mortimer posted:

That's very clearly a dirty mod altering things it shouldn't. Run TES5Edit

I've cleaned the dirty mods but the problem remains. The door doesn't actually lead to anything either (just swings open) so I'm not sure what the building is even supposed to be (it's across from the blacksmith).

Again for reference:

Load Order

# ? Feb 15, 2014 21:45

Synthwave Crusader: Feb 13, 2011

Have you used Open Cities Skyrim at any point in time?

# ? Feb 15, 2014 21:50

Broniki: Sep 2, 2009; Feminist Frequency is one of many women targeted by the Gamergate harassment campaign. Donate today!

Okay, naturally I solved my problem immediately after posting about it. The culprit is Skyfalls and Skymills, there is supposed to be a windmill in that location. This is probably a load order issue since BOSS doesn't recognize the mod just yet. I'm just going to disable it since I don't really care about windmills, but that was the issue.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 22:13

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Broniki posted:

Okay, naturally I solved my problem immediately after posting about it. The culprit is Skyfalls and Skymills, there is supposed to be a windmill in that location. This is probably a load order issue since BOSS doesn't recognize the mod just yet. I'm just going to disable it since I don't really care about windmills, but that was the issue.

I don't see Skyfalls' .esp in the load order you posted, did you try to merge it or something?

# ? Feb 15, 2014 22:19

Broniki: Sep 2, 2009; Feminist Frequency is one of many women targeted by the Gamergate harassment campaign. Donate today!

Ernie Muppari posted:

I don't see Skyfalls' .esp in the load order you posted, did you try to merge it or something?

I copied my load order list from the recognized plugins tab, and forgot to include the unrecognized tab as well :doh:

there's Skyfalls and Vivid Landscapes on there, which end up at the bottom of my load order.

# ? Feb 15, 2014 22:26

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Inverness posted:

This just makes me wonder why Bethesda didn't use an existing script engine like Lua, as opposed to Yet Another In-House Language which would inevitably be worse.

There is no way they can match the sheer amount of man hours that has gone into a project like Lua.

This has nothing to do with Papyrus, and could have happened no matter what scripting language or VM you chose to use.

Papyrus is actually quite good. However, most mod authors expect the Papyrus VM to work like any other VM, forgetting or not realizing that the Papyrus VM shares memory with Skyrim.exe, which leads to a number of interesting problems that even most experienced programmers won't be familiar with.

# ? Feb 16, 2014 00:34

Sloppy Milkshake: Nov 9, 2004; I MAKE YOU HUMBLE

So i've decided to bite the bullet and get into Mod Organizer and I think i've got it mostly right, except that I am getting a message saying that there are potential problems with my set up (the red exclamation mark in the triangle in the upper right-hand corner). Checking into that, i'm provided with about seven or eight mods to rearrange (e.g. "Move Unofficial Skyrim Patch before Unofficial Hearthfire Patch"), only all of the mods are in the order that MO suggests already. Does the load order not correspond to the priority in the right hand pane?

# ? Feb 16, 2014 00:47

Head Hit Keyboard: Oct 9, 2012; It must be fate that has brought us together after all these years.

TheSpookyDanger posted:

So i've decided to bite the bullet and get into Mod Organizer and I think i've got it mostly right, except that I am getting a message saying that there are potential problems with my set up (the red exclamation mark in the triangle in the upper right-hand corner). Checking into that, i'm provided with about seven or eight mods to rearrange (e.g. "Move Unofficial Skyrim Patch before Unofficial Hearthfire Patch"), only all of the mods are in the order that MO suggests already. Does the load order not correspond to the priority in the right hand pane?

Corresponds to both. Basically the mods in the left pane get loaded into the virtual data folder in that order so if a texture is replaced by Mod A and Mod B, and Mod A is after Mod B in the left pane, then it's A's texture that the game sees.

To simplify it a little more, the right pane is the ESP/ESM load order. The left pane is the load order for every other file type mods can use.

# ? Feb 16, 2014 00:58

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Man, immersive creatures has some interesting stuff, at least, but the balance is hosed. I don't know if it's leveled at all. I'm level 18 and it's dropping in some level 40 riekling chargers that can eat a couple dozen dual-cast lightning bolts and that kill me in one hit.

I'm probably going to have to disable it or something, because this is just annoying.

edit: 1055 base health. Just, gently caress that. Christ.

# ? Feb 16, 2014 01:02

Sloppy Milkshake: Nov 9, 2004; I MAKE YOU HUMBLE

Head Hit Keyboard posted:

Corresponds to both. Basically the mods in the left pane get loaded into the virtual data folder in that order so if a texture is replaced by Mod A and Mod B, and Mod A is after Mod B in the left pane, then it's A's texture that the game sees.

To simplify it a little more, the right pane is the ESP/ESM load order. The left pane is the load order for every other file type mods can use.

Ah, that makes sense to me; however, the priority matches what MO is telling me I need to do in both panes, but i'm still getting that error message. Did I gently caress up the install of MO or something?

# ? Feb 16, 2014 01:59

a kitten: Aug 5, 2006

TheSpookyDanger posted:

MO doesn't do the ordering on its own, unless you've run BOSS or know what order to put them the order in the "plugin" list is just the order you installed them in. (Unless I'm misunderstanding the problem you're having)

a kitten fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Feb 16, 2014

# ? Feb 16, 2014 02:03

Synthwave Crusader: Feb 13, 2011

TheSpookyDanger posted:

So i've decided to bite the bullet and get into Mod Organizer and I think i've got it mostly right, except that I am getting a message saying that there are potential problems with my set up (the red exclamation mark in the triangle in the upper right-hand corner). Checking into that, i'm provided with about seven or eight mods to rearrange (e.g. "Move Unofficial Skyrim Patch before Unofficial Hearthfire Patch"), only all of the mods are in the order that MO suggests already. Does the load order not correspond to the priority in the right hand pane?

The general rule when it comes to mods with loose files like scripts is that you want the load order on the left pane to follow the load order on the right pane (once it's been sorted by BOSS, obviously). So basically, the USKP will be the first thing to load on both the right and left panes.

Also, you guys do realize that Arthmoor is like, a 30-40 year old dude right? He's pretty much a big manchild when it comes to situations like this.

Synthwave Crusader fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Feb 16, 2014

# ? Feb 16, 2014 02:33

Synthwave Crusader: Feb 13, 2011

Quote is not Edit!

# ? Feb 16, 2014 02:34

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 12:42

Brownie: Jul 21, 2007; The Croatian Sensation

Is there any ENB preset that doesn't completely destroy your FPS nowadays? I've tried like 3 different presets and they all seem to hit my FPS really hard, usually cutting them in half. I didn't have this problem a year ago when I last played

# ? Feb 16, 2014 02:35

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