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MJ12 posted:Internally, the Syndicate are primarily there to influence what research gets passed on to normal folks and what stays in the Technocracy, what gets funded and what doesn't, and finally, managing the Technocratic shadow economy. As you can guess, being the guys with money makes them a lot of friends and a lot of enemies. Note that the Technocratic shadow economy is huge. Even after losing all their off-world assets in the Avatar Storm, the Void Engineers manage to run 6 Qui La Machinae space battleships. As a note, each Qui La Machinae costs approximately 8 billion dollars. As comparison, the most expensive naval warships in existence, the Nimitz-class aircraft carriers, cost 4.5 billion apiece. The Technocracy had way more of these before the Week of Nightmares cut them off from their offworld assets. We're talking an internal shadow economy for one fifth of the Technocracy that basically has the budget of the Department of Defense. Inaccurate. They have the budget the Department of Defense wishes they could have. The Syndicate believes in a cashless society as the way to Ascension. Effectively, the concept of money is a universal constant - everyone understands "trading things for other things" - and therefore it is probably a fundamental underpinning of reality, so by manipulating it, they believe they can bring the human race into...Ascension. They are also ludicrously corrupt. Ludicrously. I think like a full third of them is just corrupt, the entirety of the Special Project Division.
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Feb 17, 2014 06:40
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Sword Hunter Gil posted:The Syndicate believes in a cashless society as the way to Ascension. Effectively, the concept of money is a universal constant - everyone understands "trading things for other things" - and therefore it is probably a fundamental underpinning of reality, so by manipulating it, they believe they can bring the human race into...Ascension. So the United Federation of Planets is the Syndicate endgame?
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Feb 17, 2014 06:49
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No. The mass enlightenment of the human spirit into what may or may not be collective supergodhood via the manipulation of money and the concept of money as an underpinning definition of reality and thus the Consensus is the Syndicate's theoretical endgame. More practically most of them are huge jerks who want to get richer.
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Feb 17, 2014 06:56
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Sword Hunter Gil posted:No. The mass enlightenment of the human spirit into what may or may not be collective supergodhood via the manipulation of money and the concept of money as an underpinning definition of reality and thus the Consensus is the Syndicate's theoretical endgame. With very slight modification, this describes all the technocratic conventions.
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Feb 17, 2014 07:44
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wiegieman posted:With very slight modification, this describes fixed 
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Feb 17, 2014 08:22
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quote:With very slight modification, this describes Heh! How very meta and deep. We should definitely kill Boris.
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Feb 17, 2014 15:59
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Definitely get rid of Boris. Preferably take his money first and double-cross him, or whichever way is most amusing.
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Feb 17, 2014 16:06
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Kill Boris Long term? Mob bosses come and go. Club owners, especially ones with silent vampire backing, tend to be around a lot longer. Plus moneys.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:13
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Cythereal posted:So the United Federation of Planets is the Syndicate endgame? To answer seriously, not a society free of money, but a society free of physical currency. Once you have that, and you are effectively the central bank of the world, you can really work magick.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:40
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Oh my god, the Syndicate did Bitcoins.
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Feb 17, 2014 19:00
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Ensign Expendable posted:Oh my god, the Syndicate did Bitcoins. No, credit cards and checks and the modern financial system. Bitcoins are totally a VA lolbertarian information wants to be free thing, while the Syndicate sees finances, fundamentally, not as something to make more of because gently caress you got mine, but because it's a method of power and control. It can be used for good ends or bad, but the Technocracy fundamentally is control. The good ones use it well to provide freedom from horrible things and want and fear. The bad ones use it to get more power. The Traditions, coincidentally, are freedom to (wonder, live how you want, get eaten by a dragon, starve, make beautiful things, discover your own way, wallow in your own poo poo because none of this magic works unless you're hardcore enough).
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Feb 17, 2014 19:26
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MJ12 posted:The Syndicate are the financial and economic arm of the Technocracy. All the Technocratic factions have some form of imperialistic or controlling tendencies: Iteration X represents technological control via military force of arms, Progenitors represent biochemical control (drugs, medicines, things you literally need or you die), the NWO represents governmental control, the Void Engineers represent imperialism (control via discovery and conquest), and the Syndicate are control via economics. What's the difference between Iteration X and the Void Engineers? Sounds pretty similar to me. I don't know the first thing about Mage: Am I correct in believing that all of these factions aggressively compete with each other? Wouldn't feel very WoD-y otherwise. And is there a central Technocracy "government", or is it more like an ideological movement? Oh, and kill Boris. Don't overexert yourself: you're still a fledling vampire at the lowest rung of the ladder - trying to deal with the Russian mob seems to be a little much for what is essentially your very first week.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:13
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System Metternich posted:What's the difference between Iteration X and the Void Engineers? Sounds pretty similar to me. One cannot say the Technocracy has no government, but that does not mean the five Conventions come to blows on occasion. Each of the five groups - and the Virtual Adepts and Sons of Ether long ago - saw eye to eye on many things; protect and enrich humanity, instill order to the world, To answer your first question, Iteration X are Transhumanists; they believe in the machine to the point that they would - and did - replace their mortal body with bionic augmentations. They are the ones who build most of the actual tech the Technocracy uses. The Void Engineers on the other hand are explorers of Space and Dimensions. Think of them like the Explorers and Colonists from the dawn of the New World. They want to explore all of Space and Dimensional plains and establish them as colonies much like we did when Europe found the Americas. Hope this helps. 
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Feb 18, 2014 01:51
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AnAnonymousIdiot posted:They want to explore all of Space and Dimensional plains and establish them as colonies much like we did when Europe found the Americas. Also shoot Nephandi/Threat Null with lasers.
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Feb 18, 2014 11:46
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Curse you Gatz! I'm really enjoying this LP and now you've made me go and install Bloodlines again! I've beaten the game with Brujah and Malkavian, and I'm not sure what clan I'm going to go with this time, possibly Nosferatu for something very different, although I'll likely play the game again straight away when I re-complete it, so I could save it 'til then and try out Gangrel; Aren't they unarmed fighters though? Because those animations will get boring quickly. Could go Toreador, Celerity's always a hoot. Also, Kill Boris, he sucks. While visiting Venus to get our money can be a hassle, eventually we'll be so rich it won't matter, and Venus is a pretty nice lady who runs a fine and classy establishment. Plus, she's a friend of Larry's, Larry recommended us, it'd be very rude to go and kill her now. To all the Bloodline vets in here, are there any mods I should pick up apart from the ClanQuest one? I'm assuming that has the most recent iteration of Wesp's plus patch in it as well. I wonder, will there ever be any good clan mods out there that aren't just a complete reskin all round; same character model, same NPC reactions and dialogue, similar powers with different names. I honestly wouldn't mind an occasional NPC having a silent line amidst the voice acted ones when they were addressing the fact that you're, say, a Lasombra or something. If people really find it too jarring, why not just have NPCs who are already in the game and giving you unique quests / dialogue contact you via e-mail and notes? Added in NPCs specifically for the mod wouldn't be a problem. I know it's probably way more effort than I even realize, but considering the cult following, the fact that it's been out for years, and the horrible fact that as far as Vampire: The Masquerade RPGs, this is about all we've got. (Hey, I liked Redemption, but it's really more like 'Sort of V:TM with the rules bent meets Diablo.', and that was awesome, but Bloodlines is better.)
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Feb 18, 2014 13:08
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AnAnonymousIdiot posted:Technocracy stuff So, Iteration X would be responsible for Adam Jensen/JC Denton, while Void Engineers are those that thought up NASA? Kill Boris, the only good mobster is a dead mobster, doubly so in the WoD where prisons might as well don't exist.
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Feb 18, 2014 13:18
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Actually, do prisons exist in the WoD? I mean, it's a reflection of our world, but I don't think I remember mention of them in the things I've read (which is mostly Werewolf). That could be an interesting campaign: starting out in a prison with rival gangs of werewolves, vampires, and badass humans.
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Feb 18, 2014 14:57
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Aesclepia posted:Actually, do prisons exist in the WoD? I mean, it's a reflection of our world, but I don't think I remember mention of them in the things I've read (which is mostly Werewolf). It seems pretty unlikely that a vampire or werewolf would ever be in human prison. It would be pretty hard to maintain the masquerade (or equivalent) under such close scrutiny, so in the unlikely event that a supernatural being did get caught by the police, they'd presumably be rescued or killed to keep things under wraps. I guess there could be prisons run by the supernatural beings themselves, but I can't really see them choosing to imprison someone rather than just killing them.
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Feb 18, 2014 15:08
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Aesclepia posted:Actually, do prisons exist in the WoD? I mean, it's a reflection of our world, but I don't think I remember mention of them in the things I've read (which is mostly Werewolf). Yes, prisons exist. It is the WoD, though, so they are more like warehouses for brutal violence, rape, and torture. Think gulags crosses with dungeons. Aesclepia posted:That could be an interesting campaign: starting out in a prison with rival gangs of werewolves, vampires, and badass humans. Werewolves and vampires would not work in a prison, between sunlight and Frenzy. A mage, maybe, but not those two.
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Feb 18, 2014 15:19
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LeJackal posted:Yes, prisons exist. It is the WoD, though, so they are more like warehouses for brutal violence, rape, and torture. Think gulags crosses with dungeons. ...or Texas state prisons.
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Feb 18, 2014 16:09
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LeJackal posted:Yes, prisons exist. It is the WoD, though, so they are more like warehouses for brutal violence, rape, and torture. Think gulags crosses with dungeons. It could be a custom taskforce: VALKYRIE prison for supers, with accommodations for vamps and wolves. That said, why wouldn't they just stake them or let them go or whatever? Well, maybe they're doing some kind of horrible mad science experiments on the supers to learn how to fight them better? ... now we're talking WOD setting. The party is a group of inmates plotting to escape from a supermax prison.
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Feb 18, 2014 17:29
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System Metternich posted:I don't know the first thing about Mage: Am I correct in believing that all of these factions aggressively compete with each other? Wouldn't feel very WoD-y otherwise. And is there a central Technocracy "government", or is it more like an ideological movement? There is the Control, but they got cut off from Earth after the Avatar Storm. Depending of your preferred version, they morphed into Threat Null, or actually evolved into spirits devoid of any personality a long time before that happened. Lack of central government paralyzed the Union a bit. As for the infighting, they always had a lot. Two of the newest Traditions, Sons of Ether and Virtual Adepts, actually are former Conventions who got so pissed with Technocracy they decided to split. New World Order and the Syndicate always had an ongoing rivalry about the direction of the Union. Iteration-X also doesn't like their leadership, because they want to pursue reality deviants more aggressively than the subtler Conventions would like. Void Engineers feel shackled by the rest and are most likely to become the third subgroup that splits. There is also the matter that certain parts of Technocracy got taken over. SPD was already mentioned and became such a problem that a special secret task force inside the Technocracy got created to deal with them. The leadership of Iteration-X got tricked into following a powerful spirit masquerading as an AI. A lot of Void Engineers, who ventured beyond the Horizon into Deep Umbra, got corrupted by Nephandi or turned into Marauders. While Technocracy before the Storm looked like an invincible monolith, later it is pretty clear it is falling apart like the rest of the world.
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Feb 18, 2014 18:04
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TehGherkin posted:Also, Kill Boris, he sucks. While visiting Venus to get our money can be a hassle, eventually we'll be so rich it won't matter, and Venus is a pretty nice lady who runs a fine and classy establishment. Plus, she's a friend of Larry's, Larry recommended us, it'd be very rude to go and kill her now. This is a good point. Larry is the best character, Larry recommended us to Venus, we should respect that.
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Feb 18, 2014 18:16
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AnAnonymousIdiot posted:The Void Engineers on the other hand are explorers of Space and Dimensions. Think of them like the Explorers and Colonists from the dawn of the New World. They want to explore all of Space and Dimensional plains and establish them as colonies much like we did when Europe found the Americas. If Heaven is real, then the Void Engineers want to invade it, shoot the angels with lasers, and steal all the harps. They often get a pass because Space Is Cool, but the fact that their focus is on taking the Spirit World (which is inextricably tied to the human subconscious) and turning it into another natural resource to be exploited means that they could be the most dangerous and destructive Convention of all. Also, Kill Boris.
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Feb 18, 2014 18:30
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Tiggum posted:I guess there could be prisons run by the supernatural beings themselves, but I can't really see them choosing to imprison someone rather than just killing them.
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Feb 18, 2014 19:17
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Kloro posted:If Heaven is real, then the Void Engineers want to invade it, shoot the angels with lasers, and steal all the harps. This is not actually true. This is the belief of the rest of the Technocracy. The Void Engineers, in most of the Time Of Judgement: Ascension chronicles, decide to go off into space: the final frontier and boldly go where no man has gone before, because that was always the original point of the convention. The party line that they project to the Technocracy is not actually how the Voids think, and more often than not, they are the dudes who will buddy up with Mages to kill horrible nightmare aliens, ignore helpful spirits they should be shooting, and play along with the Humphrey Bogart routines on the Digital Web with the Virtual Adepts. Fact is, of all the Technocratic Conventions as a whole, the Voids are the nicest of them, in large part because they are Explorers first. Every other Convention is more rigid - they're the Men In Black, or Wall Street, or the Military Complex, or Big Pharma. The Voids are "those dudes probing the final frontier", and so as a result they are directly the least constrained Convention. Everybody (except the Syndicate, who are arrogant beyond measure) believes that the Void Engineers are merely one push away from breaking away from the Technocracy, and I'm pretty sure that there's at least one scenario where they do just that (like, officially, turning on Control and rolling the hell out). This means very little individually. It just means that, by and large, the Voids as a group are not as horrifically exploitative, destructive, or controlling as the rest of them. Also, Tycho Brahe (like, the real one, the astronomer) is their immortal leader, and he's a pretty chill dude. EDIT: If you're interested in Mage, the books that are some of the most fun to read are: The Revised Corebook (because it helps you understand what is going on) Beyond The Barrier: Book Of Worlds Book Of Chantries Guide to the Technocracy Convention Book: Void Engineers Convention Book: Iteration X Convention Book: New World Order Convention Book: The Syndicate Convention Book: Progenitors Tradition Book: Sons of Ether (Revised) Tradition Book: Virtual Adepts (Revised) Digital Web Digital Web 2.0 These will give you a pretty good picture of all the coolest parts of Mage, which in my opinion are "the basic concept, the insane tapestry of worlds, the Technocrats, the cyberpunks, the mad engineers who fly balloons in space and punch nazis in hollow earth, and the internet". An absolutely-essentials-only list would probably be the Revised Corebook, Guide to the Technocracy, and Book Of Worlds. Other people are free to disagree. Also, exactly none of this is likely necessary to understand a Vampire game, but WoD loves to interlock everything and be weird like that. WampaPartyEX fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 21:27
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I'd also argue that the first thing you want to do when reading about/running Mage is to pretend that all the metaplot bullshit in third edition never happened, but I'm aware that's not a widely held opinion.
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Feb 18, 2014 21:50
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Omobono posted:So, Iteration X would be responsible for Adam Jensen/JC Denton, while Void Engineers are those that thought up NASA? That's it more or less for the former, but think XCOM as well as NASA when you think of the Void Engineers. They do a lot of fighting eldritch menaces along with exploring space and the dimensions.
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Feb 18, 2014 22:24
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Is Tycho Brahe's nose magical?
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Feb 19, 2014 01:06
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It's not impossible. He's immortal, after all.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:07
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Sword Hunter Gil posted:Everybody (except the Syndicate, who are arrogant beyond measure) believes that the Void Engineers are merely one push away from breaking away from the Technocracy, and I'm pretty sure that there's at least one scenario where they do just that (like, officially, turning on Control and rolling the hell out). I'm reasonably certain that the VA/VE/SoE would gently caress off together and do their own thing if given half a chance, and the fact that the books went out of their way to avoid letting that happen.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:40
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I would be pretty much all over a Sons of Ether/Virtual Adepts/Void Engineers collective of Enlightened Engineers doing Inspired SCIENCE! at the internet and poo poo. That would be a great new face in the Ascension War. I can't think of any equivilants in the Vampire sects doing the same thing, though. Vampire is so much less friendly than Mage across the party lines. In Vampire, Sabbat and Camarilla loathe each other and will kill each other on sight. In Mage, it swings between that, or sort of friendly enemies on opposite sides of the trenches. I always wanted to do a Technocracy game where the team got to be really close friends with their opposite number on the Traditions, because they're both down in the trenches together, and they live on some crowded little street that is also a nexus of quintessence. So neither side wants to give it up, neither side can afford to start firing because it's a suburb packed with sleepers, and both sides tiptoe around the issue and act friendly in front of the neighbors, fight together when Werewolves or Spirits come to claim it...that kind of thing. Maybe I'd throw in a whacky Marauder Neighbor and a jerkass Nephandi boss who loves causing suffering to the inhabitants of the street by making them work on their kids' birthdays and poo poo. It'd be really friendly and loose, with a really grim undercurrent because of how essential the street is. And then somebody tips the balance of power once they've all gotten comfortable and everything goes to hell. On topic though, since this isn't a WoD Megathread: I'm playing a Tremere. Any tips, you guys? WampaPartyEX fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 08:09
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Sword Hunter Gil posted:
Stick with the prod. Prod with the prod. Seriously though: Tremere is absolutely good for any build. Want to do ranged? Shoot guns while Blood Striking. Melee? Run up and Blood Purge while hacking away. Never let Blood Shield down in combat areas. The 4-dot-maximum on your physical stats isn't really something that will hurt you too bad; you won't hit the hardest out there in melee but with a decent weapon you'll still absolutely do more than enough damage. And always make nice to Strauss. The reward is worth it. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 08:41
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gatz posted:This gives us a dot in Brawl, increasing the damage of our unarmed attacks. Something I will never use. It's nice for emergency in-combat feeding, I guess. gatz posted:
Who else indeed? Perhaps a certain someone who coincidentally happened to be in the vicinity with a grenade at hand? Putting someone in danger just so you could rescue them and place them firmly in your debt is Vampire Politics 101, after all (as far as I recall, one of the sourcebooks mentions sires deliberately tipping off hunters to the locations of their wayward childer so that they could swoop in and bring them back into the fold). Sword Hunter Gil posted:On topic though, since this isn't a WoD Megathread: Rogue AI Goddess fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 09:09
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How do you think the Sabbat found me?
Hey, it's just a theory, man. But who else is gonna be watchin' you so closely, knowin' where you're goin' and all that?
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Ephemeron posted:It's nice for emergency in-combat feeding, I guess. I don't know that the Anarchs knew about your mission against the warehouse though? As far as I know the only vampires you can meet are the one Kuei-Jin, a malkavian and a nosferatu, none of which are anarchs, and regardless don't have a clue as to your mission (except for the Nosferatu). As much as I'd like to take Nines down from his 'nice guy' pedestal, I really don't see how he could be responsible for the ambush. edit: unless the nosferatu sold the mission information and agent to the anarchs. Huh. Now that's interesting. Any clues/hints to that effect? double nine fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 11:19
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Therese is the Baron of Santa Monica, and Baron is an Anarch title.
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Feb 19, 2014 20:26
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Tehan posted:Therese is the Baron of Santa Monica, and Baron is an Anarch title. True, but she has camarilla aspirations, plus its not like SM has a huge vampire population. Doubt she'd go about setting you up for Nines. Now, if it was LaCroix who bailed you out, I could totally buy that. If you were set up, the nos selling the info to Nines is likely the most plausible route. He'd want to keep a tab on you since your creation was the political hot potato of the night, and bringing over the prince's new gofer to his side--even if he just gains your trust as a friend--would be a good intel source for him in the future.
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Feb 19, 2014 20:44
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OAquinas posted:True, but she has camarilla aspirations, plus its not like SM has a huge vampire population. Doubt she'd go about setting you up for Nines. Now, if it was LaCroix who bailed you out, I could totally buy that. It really says something about the system that there are only three vampires in Santa Monica, but there are at least five political motivations.
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Feb 19, 2014 22:46
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double nine posted:edit: unless the nosferatu sold the mission information and agent to the anarchs. Huh. Now that's interesting. Any clues/hints to that effect? Well, gathering all the information and then selling it to people who aren't the Sabbat is pretty much the Nosferatu's thing so it's not a bad guess. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they bugged every Malkavian's house just in case their insight made them mumble out something really important.
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Feb 20, 2014 01:07
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Do you all prefer the character dialogue be in italics, or should I keep it normal? I do it to make it contrast with my own commentary, since there's no color options or anything else.
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Feb 20, 2014 02:59
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