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Wolfgang Pauli posted:I was under the impression that we were only getting the southern steppes, like around Khorasan and Bukhara and the like. To model the Yuan invasion you'd need Mongolia and all that junk north of the Himalayas and Tibetan Plateau. You'd need to go way farther north to get into the heart of Kipchak territory. North of the Aral Sea makes kind of a convenient border, once its stretched out to its not wonky proportions. (I got really depressed looking at maps for this because look at the Aral Sea in a PDS game and look at it now. That happened in the last thirty years.) I dunno how it's gonna work because Persia now has it's Eastern Borders and the edge of the map where the mongols would appear isn't an edge anymrore.
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Feb 17, 2014 07:54
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I'm not sure this is the right thread for it, but being as I don't know what would be, if someone's interested in getting a start on modding this game, maybe eventually doing a total conversion, where's a good place to look and learn WTF to do so nothing important gets broken?
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Feb 17, 2014 08:12
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Arglebargle III posted:Praying the 7th expansion adds Asia from China to Indonesia. You could totally do it, the China of this period could be modeled in the existing game without too many new features. China at the Old Gods start is drowning in problems that can be expressed in the existing game mechanics (wrong-religion wrong-culture vassals across half the country, locked to Agnatic Open) and is primed to fall apart. In fact Crusader Kings is probably the perfect game to do China in because "China" doesn't have to exist as an entity, CK2 can do the granularity and internecine conflict much better than other titles where it would be a megablob. And "China" or whatever states are in that regions have very stiff competition throughout the period, enough to keep it in check even as a player character nation. I want to do it just so we can call it "Crusader Mings" 
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Feb 17, 2014 08:21
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Darkrenown posted:I want to do it just so we can call it "Crusader Mings" Crusader Qings.
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Feb 17, 2014 09:47
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Excelzior posted:but where will it fit? will they redo every single military screen to add a "war elephant" slot? The Elder Kings mod have added Mages as a unit so I imagine that they should be able to add a new Elephant unit and it would make more sense since there's a pretty big difference between war elephants and heavy cavalry.
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Feb 17, 2014 09:55
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Lord Tywin posted:The Elder Kings mod have added Mages as a unit so I imagine that they should be able to add a new Elephant unit and it would make more sense since there's a pretty big difference between war elephants and heavy cavalry. They did that by renaming Horse Archers. Unit types are hard-coded.
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Feb 17, 2014 09:57
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Disco Infiva posted:Crusader Qings. Because that fits the timeline better. 
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Feb 17, 2014 10:07
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Knuc U Kinte posted:Because that fits the timeline better. Ok, Crusader Qins then! Timeline is unimportant 
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Feb 17, 2014 10:14
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Would China be the only culture group to have badass pikemen? Fire Spears would be a thing from 1100 onwards. (Basically imagine a spear with a primitive one-use shotgun tied to the end of the shaft.) Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 10:15
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Actually, Scots get pikes that can be absolute murder on cavalry, as I recall. E: And hell in defensive battles in general, especially with the combat re-balance that added things like choke points.
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Feb 17, 2014 10:27
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Pikes will always be murderous vs cavalry. Pikemen vs cavalry tactics get 300% offence.
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Feb 17, 2014 10:35
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Holy crap, I was just reading up on the wiki, and there's a religious fervor battle tactic that you can use if your leader is either A. an inspiring leader with Zealous or B. Possessed. It's a flat +150% to every unit type. E: Also, it is possible to charge your own side if your commander is both incompetent and a bastard. (I. E. Cruel.) And lisping or stuttering can completely wreck your whole side with confused orders. 
NewMars fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 10:46
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Looks like becoming an Indian King will be pretty easy. A lot of those Kingdoms look relatively small. Click to embiggen   
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Feb 17, 2014 17:16
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The "free ducal title revocation" mechanic if you are the Roman Empire is so hilariously broken. Got an independence movement with ten dukes? Revoke their titles, there is a 95% chance that they will just say "welp  " and you incur zero tyranny or relationship hits with anyone else. Then hand the title off to some other count in their duchy for +60 relationship and now you have a  duke. The old duke may hate you, but what do you care, he's a Count now and someone else's problem.This is even more broken if your character is the "demon spawn", since he/she can easily revoke the titles of all the offended Dukes and replace them with ones who are pretty much OK with you being the son of Satan since you granted them a duchy. And now, SoS's current status at rebuilding Rome:  The story with taking Mecca is before this, the Sunni Caliph declared a holy war for Armenia, and literally invited everyone and their doomstacks. They were successfully fought off and their armies destroyed, and (being Roman) the SPQR took revenge. That must be killing their moral authority, right? One question: on destroying Kingdoms. There are a few I'd like to usurp/destroy, I assume that the -50 hit will come from all de jure dukes? monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 17:40
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monster on a stick posted:The "free ducal title revocation" mechanic if you are the Roman Empire is so hilariously broken. Got an independence movement with ten dukes? Revoke their titles, there is a 95% chance that they will just say "welp Yep. Every dejure duke of a kingdom you destroy will hate you for it. Dejure counts will also hate you, if they don't have a duke above them.
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Feb 17, 2014 17:51
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Knuc U Kinte posted:Defensive wars/crusades, and they will still get mad if you are running a little offensive war on the side. The last part was the issue. There's pretty much always a background rebellion and an offensive war going on.
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Feb 17, 2014 17:58
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Holy poo poo, NPC Mali just reformed West African paganism and formed the Empire of Mali. Karling controlled Asturias was beating the crap out of the Ummayads, allowing a Liberation Revolt to go off in Mali. The Liberator used his event troops to rapid fire county conquer most of Mauritania, which was fractured due to an Incapable Ummayad Sultan who had lost all his troops to the Karlings. Meanwhile, the Abbasids/Egypt are busy getting their asses kicked by me as Isreal in the east, so no support from that direction either. So Mali grabs four holy sites, reforms the faith, then immediately Great Holy Wars Africa, then forms Mali, all as one ruler.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:00
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Dutchfool posted:Yep. Every dejure duke of a kingdom you destroy will hate you for it. If you take a kingdom by holy war or Crusade and can usurp right after the war, destroy the kingdom and then hand out the counties/duchies, saves you the penalty.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:05
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monster on a stick posted:The "free ducal title revocation" mechanic if you are the Roman Empire is so hilariously broken. Got an independence movement with ten dukes? Revoke their titles, there is a 95% chance that they will just say "welp Watch out, though - Byzantine/Roman dukes have a particular tendency to try to get their hands on the counties in their duchy, and if they get enough then revoking the duchy doesn't really slow them down - they'll still have most of the duchy's troops even as a count, and they'll be able to use the counties to get the duke title back (by usurping it) and now you have a duke that's guaranteed to hate you since you revoked the duchy earlier. I remember one duke whose title I just kept revoking and he just kept usurping it back from the new holder, I think he did it four times before I managed to find an alternate solution (  ) to the problem.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:16
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monster on a stick posted:The "free ducal title revocation" mechanic if you are the Roman Empire is so hilariously broken. Got an independence movement with ten dukes? Revoke their titles, there is a 95% chance that they will just say "welp Something to keep in mind with duchy revocations, though, is that counts can start factions too. So if all the counts in that duchy liked the old duke better, they'll probably go ahead and put him back on the throne, and you can do sweet gently caress all because lieges can't interfere in intra-vassal wars.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:18
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DStecks posted:Something to keep in mind with duchy revocations, though, is that counts can start factions too. So if all the counts in that duchy liked the old duke better, they'll probably go ahead and put him back on the throne, and you can do sweet gently caress all because lieges can't interfere in intra-vassal wars. What's the point? Just revoke his duchy again.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:25
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Do we know anything about some of the undocumented mechanics on warscore in civil wars? (This is CK2+ but I'm pretty sure this behaviour isn't moddable.) I was playing out the string on my Ironman Occitania game - planning to convert it to EU4 so I didn't want to paint the map too much (I already own Aquitaine, Burgundy, all of Spain, and bits of England and Ireland I inherited because I stuck a relative on the Scottish throne and they lost Mercia to Tanistry). I got an emperor killed intervening in a Scottish civil war and most of the empire promptly rebelled against his daughter, including all but one of the five vassal kings I'd split Spain and Mercia amongst. With the help of demesne troops and my 13k retinue (once I managed to get it back from Scotland), and a shitpile of loans to temporarily hire mercs, I was slowly winning, I thought, despite being stuck at like -20%ish warscore: winning all the battles balanced out the sieges I couldn't stop (literally REBELS EVERYWHERE) and was going to clean up after I'd killed all the rebel stacks.Except that after a couple of years (I'd lost track) my battle warscore disappears, the occupations add up to -100%, and I autolose the war. Does this normally happen? If so, how do you win an empire-scale civil war? Anyway, now some rear end in a top hat from the Poitevin branch of my family is Emperor, and going holy warring in Africa which I sure as gently caress didn't want. I'm still Queen of Aquitaine/Burgundy and the biggest vassal on the block, but I also owe 1500 gold that I have to pay back with a quarter of the income I used to have, so coming back from this will be fun. Assuming I WANT to come back: massive internal rebellion was literally the only on-map challenge or source of fun left in this game: the HRE and Byzantines are still huge and can match my troop levels on a good day, the Ilkhanate swalloed Persia but couldn't beat the Byzantines consistently and eventually converted to Orthodox, the Golden Horde lost their event troops against the Ilkhanate and got wiped out. Still 50 years left for the Aztecs to show up (this is CK2+ so they're not guaranteed) and maybe I should try and be back in charge by then: don't trust the AI to win agaisnt them. edit: well, paid back the Jews, queen Adela promptly dies in childbirth and I get to deal with ten goddamn years in regency until her first daughter comes of age. Building up the funds to pay back the bigger loan, can't quite finish in 5 years (had 800, needed 1000), eat 400 prestige hit, everybody rebels again.  On the bright side, if I can win this all the ransoms will pay off the bankers!Amusing side note: The Byzantines took Jerusalem in like 900 and have held it ever since while stubbornly refuising to disintegrate, the Norse have mostly been kept penned up in their frozen wastes, and between my conquest of Spain and the Byzantines/Ilkhanate splitting the mideast between them, this game has basically wiped out Islam as a political force while STILL not having Crusades unlocked. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 18:35
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Dutchfool posted:Yep. Every dejure duke of a kingdom you destroy will hate you for it. Hmmm. Another reason I want to do this is to game the system - revoke the Kingdom of Jerusalem and then let my heir recreate it for instant 5000 prestige which should help offset a bunch of penalties for a new ruler. By the way, what's the mechanic for the various hordes converting/adopting religion? Tengri has reformed, I'd rather not have to deal with a bunch of hostile hordes, and (at least according to the wiki) Christian hordes lose the invasion CB. Dallan Invictus posted:Except that after a couple of years (I'd lost track) my battle warscore disappears, the occupations add up to -100%, and I autolose the war. Does this normally happen? If so, how do you win an empire-scale civil war? I'm guessing that a lot of your land was occupied by rebels, you want to take it back ASAP. Similarly you want to take their land. At least that seems to be true for vanilla CK2. ^^^^ also the crusades don't unlock unless there there is a perceived need. I'm pretty sure they were never unlocked in my game since the main holy sites are under Christian control though it is still early. No Pope would have called a holy Crusade for taking Baghdad or something. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 19:03
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Why would me half-brother and liege lord murder my seven year old daughter? He's paranoid. Is that all it takes? I wasn't in any factions against him, but I am now.
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Feb 17, 2014 19:26
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hellsjudge posted:If you take a kingdom by holy war or Crusade and can usurp right after the war, destroy the kingdom and then hand out the counties/duchies, saves you the penalty. Yeah this is nice. Also if you are not too big of a kingdom and absolutely hate your vassals, you can simply revoke every single one of them (including baronies) and give them out later once you've gotten everything for yourself. All of your vassals will love you and you'll have no vassals that are overpowered. You'll take a prestige hit though, but that really is never a problem. Charlz Guybon posted:Why would me half-brother and liege lord murder my seven year old daughter? It's completely random. If your brother dislikes you, he will have more of a chance of assasinating you or your children though.
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Feb 17, 2014 19:35
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We had a bunch of contrasting traits (he was mostly evil), so maybe that's why. I'm thinking of betrothing my son to a daughter of my half-sister. What are the odds of inbreeding? How does the game calculate that?
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Feb 17, 2014 19:50
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Charlz Guybon posted:Why would me half-brother and liege lord murder my seven year old daughter? The paranoid trait does tend to make AIs behave less rationally, yeah. The AI always roleplays, and traits do affect its behavior.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:14
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Charlz Guybon posted:We had a bunch of contrasting traits (he was mostly evil), so maybe that's why.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:24
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Charlz Guybon posted:We had a bunch of contrasting traits (he was mostly evil), so maybe that's why. There's a risk but inbreeding is a rare trait. A one-off incidence isn't likely to result in inbreeding, and even if one kid is inbred, not all kids from the pair necessarily will be.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:25
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Charlz Guybon posted:I'm thinking of betrothing my son to a daughter of my half-sister. What are the odds of inbreeding? How does the game calculate that? You're probably ok, but it's easy to do that for a few generations and then end up with tons of hunchbacked slow children. I ended up needing to hand out lots of counties to non-family, because having the entire Nordic world owned by the same dynasty leads to massive inbreeding.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:54
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Dallan Invictus posted:Do we know anything about some of the undocumented mechanics on warscore in civil wars? (This is CK2+ but I'm pretty sure this behaviour isn't moddable.) I was playing out the string on my Ironman Occitania game - planning to convert it to EU4 so I didn't want to paint the map too much (I already own Aquitaine, Burgundy, all of Spain, and bits of England and Ireland I inherited because I stuck a relative on the Scottish throne and they lost Mercia to Tanistry). Did you capture any rebel territory? They get a slowly increasing special warscore modifier as long as they control all their land I think.
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Feb 17, 2014 21:10
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ThisIsNoZaku posted:Did you capture any rebel territory? They get a slowly increasing special warscore modifier as long as they control all their land I think. Yeah, I've seen that in some wars (though oddly not in this one) but it's actually visible in the summary. I'm pretty sure I didn't, though: when three quarters of the country is rebelling, an individual rebel province is worth SO much less warscore than countersieging one of your own (and will also take longer) that it only seems worth doing if you have a chance of capturing the rebel leader. Generally I think I may have the wrong approach to massive civil wars: you need to know when it's safe to split the doomstack and start sieging territory/killing smaller rebel stacks, and if you do it too late Bad Things Happen. Vassal kings make this worse because they can have doomstacks of their own and actually apply them properly, whereas packs of rebel dukes tend to be really bad at consolidating their forces and let you defeat them in detail, (though recent patches have made them better). Unpredictable shifts in warscore aren't helpful for planning, but I really could have won that faster and I'll know better for the NEXT massive civil war I have to fight as soon as I get back from work. At least this one only has half the physical territory to cover.
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Feb 17, 2014 21:27
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Main Paineframe posted:The paranoid trait does tend to make AIs behave less rationally, yeah. The AI always roleplays, and traits do affect its behavior. You'd think he would have assassinated me instead, since I could be a threat to his son. Well, he got what he deserved. He died in my dungeon and then I won the war of succession against his son.
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Feb 17, 2014 21:57
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Torrannor posted:What's the point? Just revoke his duchy again. He'll just do it again. Once a duke personally owns two or more counties in their duchy or has a strong ally, revocation is purely a temporary condition. Without the ability to revoke counties as well, they've still got a power base to build themselves back up to duke with, so it can only be a quick-fix while you pursue a more...permanent solution. Dallan Invictus posted:Yeah, I've seen that in some wars (though oddly not in this one) but it's actually visible in the summary. I'm pretty sure I didn't, though: when three quarters of the country is rebelling, an individual rebel province is worth SO much less warscore than countersieging one of your own (and will also take longer) that it only seems worth doing if you have a chance of capturing the rebel leader. Was your heir a landed adult? Capturing the ruler, their heir, or a close relative in battle can make for a massive jump in warscore (capturing the ruler is an automatic 100%), and even if they're not assigned as a general they might still be attached to the troops raised from their territory and have a chance of being wounded or captured in battle. Even if they were female or unlanded, characters also have a chance of being captured in a siege if (I think) whatever province they live in is captured. There's also the possibility of the special warscore condition being met suddenly - for example, I've had battles where I'd won enough battles and sieges that I'd normally have 100% warscore, but the attacker managed to capture one holding in the target area, which held my warscore down to around 70% because they got a big modifier for holding a province in the target area. As soon as I sieged it down, the warscore jumped right up to 100%.
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Feb 17, 2014 22:07
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Charlz Guybon posted:Looks like becoming an Indian King will be pretty easy. A lot of those Kingdoms look relatively small.
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Feb 17, 2014 22:11
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This is my first game with Sons of Abraham. I saw a message that one of my vassals was appointed to the College of Cardinals. What do I click on to take a look at that?
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Feb 17, 2014 22:11
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Charlz Guybon posted:This is my first game with Sons of Abraham. I saw a message that one of my vassals was appointed to the College of Cardinals. What do I click on to take a look at that? The religion tab has a mitre-button in the top left.
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Feb 17, 2014 22:16
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Got ya. Those campaign funds, is that for electing your guy Pope or for getting the next cardinal selected from your domain?
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Feb 17, 2014 22:27
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Charlz Guybon posted:Got ya.
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Feb 17, 2014 22:30
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They always elect one of their own, or can they elect other bishops as well?
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Feb 17, 2014 22:31
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