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I think a lot of what makes Rayman Legends a fun experience that's so well-regarded is its visual/presentational quality, but Tropical Freeze has got that in spades too. I'm not seeing what the secret sauce is that supposedly puts Legends head and shoulders above DKC in terms of innovation or quality.fivegears4reverse posted:On a different note, it's amazing how quickly people both discount reviews in general and then go on to cite reviews they agree with, within the same pages of this thread. This only holds any water if you can find examples from the same poster, instead of treating separate people with separate opinions like a mutually-accountable hivemind.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:29
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Really? IGN and Gametrailers both it 9's or better (9.0 and I think 9.2 respectively) and the one dude who really 'got' DKCR from Destructoid give it a 10. Considering it's the same Destructoid dude who stated one of his biggest problems with Link Between Worlds was that it felt "soulless" to him or something, I'm expecting Tropical Freeze to have soul coming out the rear end.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:34
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Supercar Gautier posted:This only holds any water if you can find examples from the same poster, instead of treating separate people with separate opinions like a mutually-accountable hivemind. I... wasn't saying everyone is exactly the same, I was making an observation of posts that actually happened in the thread, though. Famous TV Dad posted:Game reviews have been and probably will always be completely useless. From reading the reviews in the TF thread, all of them (good and bad) are just bullet point lists of game features and then a numbered score at the end. JesusLovesRonwell posted:Really? IGN and Gametrailers both it 9's or better (9.0 and I think 9.2 respectively) and the one dude who really 'got' DKCR from Destructoid give it a 10. I don't have a Wii U and wont for a while, but DKCR was so good, and Retro so talented, I can't imagine the sequel being anything less than stellar. Maybe it's not better than 3D World, but I'd bet money this game kicks Raymand's rear end. This seems to be a case of let's poo poo on Wii U games because the Wii U sucks. I do agree with you that yes, as it turns out opinions are highly subjective. Some people are just incredibly more defensive about subjective opinions than others. I've been guilty about it, and some goons posting in here have been as well. We have people actually claiming that the low reviews are more about "making GBS threads on Wii U games because they're on the Wii U" rather than actually the opinion of the reviewer regarding the game itself. For reference, professor: JesusLovesRonwell posted:This seems to be a case of let's poo poo on Wii U games because the Wii U sucks.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:39
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The Taint Reaper posted:Tropical Freeze just didn't push the envelope enough. Not picking on you specifically, but this is the issue I have with most of the TF criticism. It seems like the negativity stems from people expecting this game to be something it was never intended to be. Does every sequel to an awesome game have to reinvent the wheel? If DKCR is indeed one of the best platformers ever, wouldn't 'more of the same' in a higher resolution be a great thing? And regarding that Destructoid reviewer's thoughts on ALBW, I kind of get where he's coming from. ALBW was my favorite game of 2013 by a mile, but the game does feel like it's missing something. And aside from the whole renting items thing, and having item usage tied to a meter, ALBW isn't that different from past Zeldas.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:45
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fivegears4reverse posted:I... wasn't saying everyone is exactly the same, I was making an observation of posts that actually happened in the thread, though.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:48
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fivegears4reverse posted:I do agree with you that yes, as it turns out opinions are highly subjective. Some people are just incredibly more defensive about subjective opinions than others. I've been guilty about it, and some goons posting in here have been as well. We have people actually claiming that the low reviews are more about "making GBS threads on Wii U games because they're on the Wii U" rather than actually the opinion of the reviewer regarding the game itself. The problem is that reviewers are not a universal group. There are good honest reviewers who are doing their best to give an honest opinion about a game. There are also fanboys (in both directions) who show a very serious and noticeable bias. And Bias isn't an inherently terrible thing but it kind of underlines why the metacritic-focused grading system is so loving dumb.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:48
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fivegears4reverse posted:On a different note, it's amazing how quickly people both discount reviews in general and then go on to cite reviews they agree with, within the same pages of this thread. Except this is a false equivalency. Even if all game reviews suck (they do) some suck less than others. And on a personal note, I'm sorry my opinions make you so angry.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:51
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So I never played DKCR, does that mean it's the game for me?
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Feb 17, 2014 23:51
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ImpAtom posted:The problem is that reviewers are not a universal group. There are good honest reviewers who are doing their best to give an honest opinion about a game. There are also fanboys (in both directions) who show a very serious and noticeable bias. And Bias isn't an inherently terrible thing but it kind of underlines why the metacritic-focused grading system is so loving dumb. Metacritic is definitely the worst thing to happen to the industry, especially after reading about contracts being drawn up that have a minimum acceptable metascore. That poo poo is amazingly frustrating to hear about. I disagree a bit about bias not being an inherently bad thing, because the heavier you lean towards something, the more likely you are to outright discount anything you disagree with as mere 'bias', just in the direction opposite of yours. Maybe some bias can be expected, everyone has preferences right? But the sort of bias where one claims "THIS reviewer gets it! Everyone else doesn't!" or "They're just reviewing it poorly to poo poo on a console I like!" is where you cross a line. Edit: I guess what I'm saying is that having some sort of bias should immediately make you suspect when you put your opinion out in public. I wouldn't put someone who hates a given genre on a review for a particular game. Their bias against the genre doesn't mean they'd be able to look at something 'objectively', like some people might hope for. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 23:55
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fivegears4reverse posted:I do agree with you that yes, as it turns out opinions are highly subjective. Some people are just incredibly more defensive about subjective opinions than others. I've been guilty about it, and some goons posting in here have been as well. We have people actually claiming that the low reviews are more about "making GBS threads on Wii U games because they're on the Wii U" rather than actually the opinion of the reviewer regarding the game itself. I'm not sure this quite fits what I was saying. I'm not talking about the differences between subjective reviews, I'm talking about the suggestion that posters in this thread are being hypocritical about the topic of reviews. What I meant is: If Poster A thinks all reviews are untrustworthy, and Poster B thinks certain reviews are trustworthy, that is not hypocrisy or a contradiction, because Posters A and B are different people and neither is accountable for what the other thinks. For example, Famous TV Dad is not the same poster as JesusLovesRonwell and juxtaposing their opinions means nothing.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:56
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I think there are two reasons that people are disappointed with Tropical Freeze. The first is that it doesn't really take advantage of the new hardware, since it doesn't look tremendously different from the previous game on the Wii and 3DS, and the GamePad isn't used for anything. The second is that it feels like a waste of time for Retro to make a slightly improved version of a platformer from 2010, when they could have been making a new Metroid Prime. Even though the series had a few missteps that prevented the sequels from being better than the original, all they'd need to do is go back to the style of the original while using the new hardware to put you in more impressive and detailed environments, and using the GamePad for new power-ups. For instance, it could have the game mirrored on to the GamePad screen, but anything you touch will be scanned. It could help guide you towards hidden items like the hum sound they produced in the earlier games. It could even be used like Metroid Prime: Hunter's incredible aiming system, but much more comfortably. 2D platformers were hot poo poo in the early 90's, but you can't keep a console alive with them now.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:58
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fivegears4reverse posted:I disagree a bit about bias not being an inherently bad thing, because the heavier you lean towards something, the more likely you are to outright discount anything you disagree with as mere 'bias', just in the direction opposite of yours. Maybe some bias can be expected, everyone has preferences right? But the sort of bias where one claims "THIS reviewer gets it! Everyone else doesn't!" or "They're just reviewing it poorly to poo poo on a console I like!" is where you cross a line. Well, I think extreme bias is a bad thing but at the same time I think some bias is important. Someone who is a long-time fan of Street Fighter is more likely to be able to give me a more accurate description of the mechanical strengths and flaws than someone who is a casual player or a newcomer. The other point of view is also obviously useful but it depends on the product. I do think there are cases where "these reviews are missing the point" has been accurate in cases where reviewers clearly misunderstood or poorly grasped mechanics. I'm a big fan of roguelikes for example and seeing a reviewer go "3/10, you have to restart the game every time you die" is a case where I think it's fair to say that the guy playing it just flat-out didn't grasp the kind of game it is. I think negative bias is almost always worthless but I'm willing to admit I may be wrong there. Someone who exacerbates flaws is far less likely to be informative to me than someone who emphasizes strengths. I think the best reviewers are those who are able to recognize the strengths in something even if they don't personally like it themselves but they're fairly few and far between. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 00:00
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Supercar Gautier posted:For example, Famous TV Dad is not the same poster as JesusLovesRonwell and juxtaposing their opinions means nothing. And I never said they were the same people, I just pointed out that I think it's funny how quickly reviews can be distrusted and trusted, particularly in this thread, where one of those posters claimed in the same post that clearly some reviewers are out to get the Wii U good! ImpAtom posted:I think negative bias is almost always worthless but I'm willing to admit I may be wrong there. Someone who exacerbates flaws is far less likely to be informative to me than someone who emphasizes strengths. I'll end my part in this derail here, but you've touched upon why I find it difficult to understand how some review personalities have gotten so popular. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 00:01
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That loving Sned posted:The second is that it feels like a waste of time for Retro to make a slightly improved version of a platformer from 2010, when they could have been making a new Metroid Prime. Even though the series had a few missteps that prevented the sequels from being better than the original, all they'd need to do is go back to the style of the original while using the new hardware to put you in more impressive and detailed environments, and using the GamePad for new power-ups. That's fair enough, but there are quite a few people (myself included) who like 2D platformers and prefer them to Metroid. I'm fine with people who say DKC isn't for them or whatever, but I have difficulty thinking that DKC Returns was a worse game than any of the Metroid Primes (I didn't much care for them), and if I had a Wii U I'd probably get this game (I don't, but I might well get one a year or two from now when it's dead and cheap). I just think there's a difference between disliking a game because it's from a genre you don't like (I'd be terrible at reviewing Call of Duty or World of Warcraft because I'm not the target audience) and disliking a game because they're making this (apparently perfectly serviceable game) rather than a game you'd prefer they make. Why is it so wrong to make games for people like me who just want to run right and jump on people's heads?
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Feb 18, 2014 00:04
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It is also worth mentioning that the first Donkey Kong Country Returns pretty much outsold the entire Prime series combined. It's understandable to want more Prime games but from a pure sales perspective it doesn't make sense to get angry that they're making a sequel to the game that sold well.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:07
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It's all moot anyway as it really doesn't matter if Tropical Freeze is good, bad, or a perfect 10 cause it's not going to sell WiiU's. If the latest 3D Mario game can't push the sales needle than the latest Donkey Kong isn't going to push the needle either!
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Feb 18, 2014 00:13
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ImpAtom posted:It is also worth mentioning that the first Donkey Kong Country Returns pretty much outsold the entire Prime series combined. It's understandable to want more Prime games but from a pure sales perspective it doesn't make sense to get angry that they're making a sequel to the game that sold well. I'm not angry about it, but I was never much of a fan of the Donkey Kong Country series compared to Nintendo's other platformers. I did enjoy Kirby's Return to Dreamland a lot, even after the half a decade long wait, so I won't begrudge Donkey Kong fans their game. Even if they started developing a new Metroid Prime game now, it would be at least two or three years before it would be completed, and who knows if the console will still be alive by then. SatoshiMiwa posted:It's all moot anyway as it really doesn't matter if Tropical Freeze is good, bad, or a perfect 10 cause it's not going to sell WiiU's. If the latest 3D Mario game can't push the sales needle than the latest Donkey Kong isn't going to push the needle either! Yeah, New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Donkey Kong Country Returns sold extremely well on a highly popular console among the type of people who would enjoy co-op 2D platformers. They did not buy the Wii U for NSMB U, so I doubt Tropical Freeze will get them to buy it either. That Fucking Sned fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 00:16
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SatoshiMiwa posted:If the latest 3D Mario game can't push the sales needle than the latest Donkey Kong isn't going to push the needle either! The Mario Galaxy games weren't killer apps for the Wii, Sunshine wasn't a killer app for the Gamecube, and 3D Land wasn't a killer app for the 3DS. If you'd said "the latest 2D Mario game" that would have made more sense.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:32
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StevenM posted:The Mario Galaxy games weren't killer apps for the Wii, Sunshine wasn't a killer app for the Gamecube, and 3D Land wasn't a killer app for the 3DS. If you'd said "the latest 2D Mario game" that would have made more sense. I thought 3D Land did pretty drat well on the 3DS. Both it and NSMB2 cleared over 5 million copies sold, didn't they? Sunshine did as well. Mario Galaxy 1 almost sold 12 million, according to Wikipedia. Sure, not the absurd number of copies moved by NSMBWii, but most games never come close to what those 'non-killer apps' have sold.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:38
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That loving Sned posted:Yeah, New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Donkey Kong Country Returns sold extremely well on a highly popular console among the type of people who would enjoy co-op 2D platformers. They did not buy the Wii U for NSMB U, so I doubt Tropical Freeze will get them to buy it either. But no one claimed TF was going to be a system seller. As a product, it was never intended to be a system seller. Edit: If TF where on the 3DS (which it probably should have been, let's be honest) people would be falling over themselves to lavish this game with all kinds of praise. Edit 2: This guy says it best: Bobnumerotres posted:It sucks that every first party WiiU game will be held to the standard of "But will this save the dying WiiU?!"/"Is this game worth 300$?!" instead of its own merits, Retro only produces gold and they deserve some praise for that. JesusLovesRonwell fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 00:39
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That's why Nintendo needs to step up their game and make one of their two games released this year system sellers.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:44
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Brand new Wii U owner here. I just ordered Monster Hunter on amazon and I own it for 3DS. Is the local play pretty fun? When I bought it for 3DS I had no idea it had the online functionality cut and only played a total of 10 minutes of it when I realized it was single player MH. Now that I'll have the Wii U version, I can finally do some co-op with my brother. Does it work pretty well?
G-Whizard fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 00:49
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G-Whizard posted:Brand new Wii U owner here. I just ordered Monster Hunter on amazon and I own it for 3DS. Is the local play pretty fun? When I bought it for 3DS I had no idea it had the online functionality cut and only played a total of 10 minutes of it when I realized it was single player MH. Now that I'll have the Wii U version, I can finally do some co-op with my brother. You want the other Wii U thread.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:50
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G-Whizard posted:Brand new Wii U owner here. I just ordered Monster Hunter on amazon and I own it for 3DS. Is the local play pretty fun? When I bought it for 3DS I had no idea it had the online functionality cut and only played a total of 10 minutes of it when I realized it was single player MH. Now that I'll have the Wii U version, I can finally do some co-op with my brother. It works out really, really well. I have two friends I regularly play Monster Hunter with, and the Wii U has never had difficulty linking up with their 3DS systems. It is weird to see the Wii U version running at a lower framerate than the 3DS game though.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:52
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:But no one claimed TF was going to be a system seller. As a product, it was never intended to be a system seller. Then why are we talking about it in this thread? The thread about discussing how the Wii U is having trouble and what can Nintendo do to prop it up. I mean, what is the next big title out of Nintendo? Mario Kart?
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Feb 18, 2014 00:56
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Suspicious Dish posted:That's why Nintendo needs to step up their game and make one of their two games released this year system sellers. That's an impossible task. The WiiU is a trainwreck, and nothing can fix it at this point. It's never going to get significant 3rd party support, and no number of quality first party games that nintendo can realistically make will make it an appealing product over the other consoles.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:57
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Putting Retro on another DKC is certainly less risky than putting them on MP4 or a new Western-targeted IP would have been, but it's dubious at best from a strategic standpoint. Another colorful, family-friendly platformer isn't going to sell the system to anyone who wouldn't have bought one for the Marios. Of course, doubling down on a shrinking core fanbase instead of seeking to create core games that appeal to broader audiences is exactly what we've come to expect from Iwata's NCL, so...
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Feb 18, 2014 00:57
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ImpAtom posted:You want the other Wii U thread. That's what I get for not reading the OP. Just assumed this was the thread. My bad, thanks for the quick reply though. I guess I can contribute to the thread. I bought this thing on a total whim and it already feels like a mistake. I wouldn't have bought it but I got a hefty tax return and I loved Wind Waker so I went and got one. Looking ahead, no games interest me coming out. Not even Smash Bros. So basically I bought a $300 Wind Waker machine with the hopes that some actually appealing games come out. I like the system but Nintendo is basically creating the exact opposite of the games I want to play and I consider myself a fairly versatile gamer.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:01
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G-Whizard posted:I wouldn't have bought it but I got a hefty tax return and I loved Wind Waker so I went and got one.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:06
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:But no one claimed TF was going to be a system seller. As a product, it was never intended to be a system seller. Coming soon to the Wii U thread, this May: "But no one claimed Mario Kart was going to be a system seller. As a product, it was never intended to be a system seller." This holiday season: "Everyone knows Smash Bros is a niche title, it was never going to sell consoles." 2015: "People, like, aren't even that interested in Zelda now. The real system sellers are right around the corner."
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Feb 18, 2014 01:07
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what's the best method in which i can use a Nintendo Wii U to kill myself?
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Feb 18, 2014 01:08
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Level Slide posted:what's the best method in which i can use a Nintendo Wii U to kill myself? Watch the Ring on the gamepad.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:09
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DKTF, Smash 4, and MK8 are the only games I'm aware of that I'm interested in buying now for the remainder of the console's life, not counting eShop titles. I guess maybe the Fire Emblem game as well if that ever pans out. Everything else, from Bayonetta to X holds absolutely no interest for me. That'll make a total of like 15 retail titles and 40ish eShop games I own so I'm not particularly disappointed or regretting my purchase personally, but man that is loving sparse from here on out. I guess there will probably be a new Zelda at some point as well. Nothing will ever be a system seller on this system, so "not a system seller" shouldn't be used as a knock on any particular game.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:09
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I really love my WiiU, Wonderful 101 and 3D world are 2 really loving awesome games, and Nintendo Land is some of the best drunk fun I've ever had with a game. It's not selling well but I don't really care and I think it's really funny that people are so invested in seeing a company do well/bad that it's preventing them from enjoying video games.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:14
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Austrian mook posted:I really love my WiiU, Wonderful 101 and 3D world are 2 really loving awesome games, and Nintendo Land is some of the best drunk fun I've ever had with a game. It's not selling well but I don't really care and I think it's really funny that people are so invested in seeing a company do well/bad that it's preventing them from enjoying video games. Ok, so you don't care. But the thread is about people who do care. I mean, I really liked my Gamecube, but if I didn't have the other systems, I would have been pretty drat disappointed.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:17
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Austrian mook posted:I really love my WiiU, Wonderful 101 and 3D world are 2 really loving awesome games, and Nintendo Land is some of the best drunk fun I've ever had with a game. It's not selling well but I don't really care and I think it's really funny that people are so invested in seeing a company do well/bad that it's preventing them from enjoying video games. Well, I know that I have plenty of fun with video games. Most of them don't happen to be on the Wii U unfortunately. I do like Wonderful 101 and Super Mario 3D World a lot, I wish they could have done more for the fortunes of the system.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:17
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Austrian mook posted:I really love my WiiU, Wonderful 101 and 3D world are 2 really loving awesome games, and Nintendo Land is some of the best drunk fun I've ever had with a game. It's not selling well but I don't really care and I think it's really funny that people are so invested in seeing a company do well/bad that it's preventing them from enjoying video games. I just want it to sell well so it attracts 3rd party developers and they put out more games on the Wii U and then I'll never have to buy a Bone or a PS4
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Feb 18, 2014 01:19
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Well, on one hand, there's no hope left for significant third-party support. On the other hand, you'll still never have to buy a Bone.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:20
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ohnoitschris posted:I just want it to sell well so it attracts 3rd party developers and they put out more games on the Wii U and then I'll never have to buy a Bone or a PS4 I'll probably end up getting a PS4 in 3 years or so, same as I did with a PS3.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:21
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blackguy32 posted:Then why are we talking about it in this thread? The thread about discussing how the Wii U is having trouble and what can Nintendo do to prop it up. Nothing can really save the Wii U at this point, but if they release some good games maybe people will buy the thing at a discount and some money will get back to Nintendo. No way they're breaking even on this venture, though. Reel it out for a few years so people don't lose all confidence in buying your consoles and try again I guess.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:27
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