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Libluini posted:Sadly, no. I took Heat 3 scales. Maybe he took Heat 3, too and the passes are blocked by hot steam? The mountains of madness seem to be the most likely explanation right now. That is some serious wtf goings-on there.
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Feb 15, 2014 22:35
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Chomp8645 posted:It looks like the next thing on my list is to figure out how the hell sieges work. I was doing alright against the AI until my main (enormous) army with my pretender spent at least 10 turns trying to bash down a castle gate with seemingly no progress, while in the mean time Caelum was able to burst into my fortress in something like four turns. Basically, sieges work by pitting the units inside the fort against the units outside. If you have more guys besieging the castle than there are defenders, you will reduce the defense value a certain amount. Different castles have different defense values, with capitals typically the highest values. If you cannot outnumber the defenders then the siege will make no progress. BUT castles also have a limited supply, when this is used up the defenders will begin to die. So many dudes inside the castle can prevent besiegers from making progress in tearing down the walls, but they will eat up the supplies quickly. Except if the have certain magic items and nature mages that feed them I guess. Castles can be build up to have more supplies and better defenses, but capitals always start with a fully built up castle. If Caelum besieges one of your new, undefended castles while you siege their capital it is no wonder that they took less time to siege it down. There are troops who count double or more for defending castles (you should have some as well as MA Man) and for sieging castles (you are out of luck as Man). You can craft magic items (with earth paths) that give a sieging bonus.
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Feb 15, 2014 22:40
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Torrannor posted:Basically, sieges work by pitting the units inside the fort against the units outside. If you have more guys besieging the castle than there are defenders, you will reduce the defense value a certain amount. Different castles have different defense values, with capitals typically the highest values. If you cannot outnumber the defenders then the siege will make no progress. BUT castles also have a limited supply, when this is used up the defenders will begin to die. So many dudes inside the castle can prevent besiegers from making progress in tearing down the walls, but they will eat up the supplies quickly. Except if the have certain magic items and nature mages that feed them I guess. Thanks for all the info! Yeah I was laying siege to Aesc-whatever's capital for what what seemed like forever when Caelum came in the backdoor. I forgot that there is a huge disparity between the fully upgraded fortress of a capital and a freshly built one. I didn't know that the ratio of attackers to defenders affected siege time, I'll keep that in mind in the future and look into earth magics for those items. Is there any way to actually view siege progress somewhere? Part of what frustrated me was I couldn't figure out where to look to actually see how many defenders the enemy had or what kind of progress I was making in my siege, or how long my troops might be able to hold out against the enemy's siege.
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Feb 15, 2014 22:53
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jBrereton posted:But... heat should preclude even non-mountain-terrain-movement-havers from not being able to go over mountains... and they're both Heat 3? (also why?, Cold-3 is much better for underwater evocation) Well, if you can only pass mountain passes if both sides have positive heat scales and deep sea provinces don't get any heat scales, regardless of pretender choices, then it really doesn't matter what R'lyeh has taken. The mountains remain impassable. I think I now even recognize this behaviour in one of my SP games. I've seen Berytos with 1 heat on one side of a mountain range, and a neutral province on the other side. The pass remains blocked. Also I took Heat 3 because I wanted to be different this time (I almost always take cold scales), I honestly didn't know Cold 3 would have been the better choice.
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Feb 15, 2014 23:03
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Smerdyakov posted:There's not a general SC anymore--pretty much every school has high single target damage/kill/control/fatigue out spells and it's impossible to protect against all of them. Most games I've played/am playing that are still competitive haven't had a clearly defined SC phase, in part because there are so many counters. In general, your best bet to defeating an SC lies in the element of surprise--if you can show up with commanders/items/units that are outside of your national paths, the odds are that the SC won't be geared to counter them. I'm actually both glad and disappointed to hear this; reading about the self-inflating wish cycles and nonstop gushing about mages in the OP made me have some serious doubts about the balance in this game, so I'm glad to see that this strategy, at least, isn't infallible. But yeah, it does seem kind of sad that stacking someone up with awesome gear is such a liability.
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Feb 15, 2014 23:07
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Mountain passes are just river passes inverted; rivers are passable when both provinces have cold scales, mountains are passable when both provinces have heat scales. If either province lacks the neccessary scale the pass is impassible. Units with mountain survival can cross mountains in neutral heat I think but I don't think any dudes any of us can get have mountain survival so that's a no go.
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Feb 15, 2014 23:13
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Chomp8645 posted:Thanks for all the info! Yeah I was laying siege to Aesc-whatever's capital for what what seemed like forever when Caelum came in the backdoor. I forgot that there is Only the defender can see siege progress by clicking on the fort where it appears where the magic sites are in the lower right of the screen. Siege strength is calculated as (strength^2)/100. So a 10 strength Joe the Besieger contributes 1 siege strength. A Caelum infantry (I think they have 9 strengh) would contribute .81+1 (flying bonus) siege strength, or however the game rounds it. Adding to what Torr said, a siege/defense bonus adds straight to this so a human would have 1+1 while a fat ugly stupid Agartha guy might have 1.96+3 or something. Sieging a cap is a huge deal because even if there was loving nobody inside of the fort it would take a large army many turns to tear it down. If there is a determined defender who pulled back and is hiding in the fort and summoning things with all of his gems then you are in for hell. e: one of the problems with the AI is that in multiplayer games when people go AI, it will run all of its units out of the forts, die, and then lose the forts easily while a player who stuck with it could have made it a nightmare for the invader Decrepus fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 23:18
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Also remember that even if you aren't strong enough to break the walls, you are besieging them and they can't recruit units in that fort nor receive income from the province.
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Feb 15, 2014 23:25
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Jabarto posted:I'm actually both glad and disappointed to hear this; reading about the self-inflating wish cycles and nonstop gushing about mages in the OP made me have some serious doubts about the balance in this game, so I'm glad to see that this strategy, at least, isn't infallible. But yeah, it does seem kind of sad that stacking someone up with awesome gear is such a liability. I think it's nice to have more endgame diversity/not punish players so harshly for a lack of end-game experience, and it seems like an improvement over dom3 to have stuff like national units and larger armies matter for things other than sieges. That said, all of the scary, seemingly unbeatable stuff that happens in the ultra late game isn't really that unbalanced. From what I've seen, it's not the thing that makes someone win; rather, it's the victory lap or the icing on the cake for the person who's already been really far ahead for awhile. And usually they're so far ahead because of a combination of good geographical location, weak neighbors, and strong/lucky diplomacy. In MP it's really hard to overcome the inertia of fighting the most convenient neighbor instead of banding together to stop the biggest threat. Smerdyakov fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 02:39
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How good is Baleful Star as a remote attack spell compared to Mind Hunt?
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Feb 16, 2014 17:20
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Baleful star is more of a raise-unrest spell which happens to curse enemy units than anything else.
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Feb 16, 2014 17:35
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Does its effects stack or do I have to cast it every turn? I'm playing EA R'lyeh and I've conquered and super fortified all the oceans, so all I've been doing is shooting mind hunts here and there. At least I have a throne 
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Feb 16, 2014 17:41
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Does anyone have tips for LA Caelum? I'm hoping to get through the midgame by using the strategic mobility flying gives me, it'd my first time using Caelum at all though so not sure how well that's gonna go. I'm also thinking of not recruiting shortbows unless I encounter really low prot enemies such as jaguars/skinshifters/flagellants seeing as in the few tests I did my bows killed more of my own guys then indies. amuayse posted:Does its effects stack or do I have to cast it every turn? I'm playing EA R'lyeh and I've conquered and super fortified all the oceans, so all I've been doing is shooting mind hunts here and there. At least I have a throne It stacks as far as I know. Note that it sends an event, so it's not reliable for remote cursing moving armies.
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Feb 16, 2014 17:52
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amuayse posted:Does its effects stack or do I have to cast it every turn? Caelum is Always Lightning All The Time. You can and should use Mist early on with Seraphim or Harab Elders to reduce casualties from crossbows firing into melee, which is where you want your guys (because you're right, without Fire magic, your shortbows are pretty worthless in LA). E2 Harab Elders can get to E3 and cast all the various buff spells you get at that point, but your troops' size and lack of strength is going to be a problem forever. Still, I guess you're kinda good against Lemuria, so have fun cracking them over your knee if you run into one another. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 18:09
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Speaking of remote attack spells, I have some questions about the (in)famous rain of toads. I always see people raving about it, but I've never had it cast on me to observe how effective it is. edit: I found answers to most of my questions by digging up the actual event details. So let me instead just ask - if you're a blood nation without the paths to cast it natively, is it worth empowering N1 indy mages to cast the spell? double edit: thanks monkee, it's good to have some of that confirmed by someone with actual MP experience. I will look into the other attack spell you mentioned TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 20:28
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TheresNoThyme posted:Speaking of remote attack spells, I have some questions about the (in)famous rain of toads. I always see people raving about it, but I've never had it cast on me to observe how effective it is. 1. Multiple times at first, then usually 1 cast thereafter to maintain 100+ unrest 2. Possibly if you really need to lock down a cap for someone like Hinnom/Niefel and don't have either NB or AB. Note that wrath of pazuzu can accomplish the same goal with Air/Blood though it is 50% more expensive. 3. Not particularly. Toads is powerful because with focused casting you can effectively lock down all of the forts you can reach so that they cannot be recruited from.
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Feb 16, 2014 20:39
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Nuclearmonkee posted:2. Possibly if you really need to lock down a cap for someone like Hinnom/Niefel and don't have either NB or AB. Note that wrath of pazuzu can accomplish the same goal with Air/Blood though it is 50% more expensive.
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Feb 17, 2014 01:50
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Esubonten "DinoMod" v0.07 Available The latest version of the mod is available here. The changelog looks like this: v0.07 posted:* Added two merc groups (one in EA only, the other in EA and MA). This change (and the sprite adjustments that went with it) marks the end of any major tweaking or sprite work or whatever in the EA incarnation of the mod nation. The next version that I make available will include the initial playable build of MA Esubonten. I only have maybe 1/3 of the sprites ready at this time so it may be a while before that release. Thanks to those who provided feedback on this mod and on the earlier Dom3 version, fraught with drama as that experience was for some of you.
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Feb 17, 2014 02:41
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jBrereton posted:It stacks, but you have to cast it every turn, it's like Wrath of Pazuzu or Raging Hearts or Locust Swarms or whatever in that respect. Lack of strength isn't much of a problem for an earth nation since they can throw out strength of giants and weapons of sharpness. Size can be somewhat mitigated by using the dualwielding raptors, which get really drat mean with buffs.
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Feb 17, 2014 04:13
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jBrereton posted:WoP is also more annoying if you're casting it on one of those sweet-spot 5-7k provinces, because it kills population, so I'm never that keen on casting it. RoT just fucks with unrest and armies. There'll probably be pop loss from patrolling, but that's a lot less than patrolling AND WoP. Wait, so WoP has more effect on a province than RoT, which makes you not want to use it? Is that just because you won't get any use out of the province if you win the war? Or am I missing something here?
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Feb 17, 2014 10:22
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Ilanin posted:Wait, so WoP has more effect on a province than RoT, which makes you not want to use it? Is that just because you won't get any use out of the province if you win the war? Or am I missing something here? Especially as a blood nation, those sweet spot provinces mentioned are really important to take intact to help keep your economy flowing, so Wrath of Pazuzu is best used as a nuclear option on provinces you don't need after the war, or when you don't have other options.
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Feb 17, 2014 15:17
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Ilanin posted:Wait, so WoP has more effect on a province than RoT, which makes you not want to use it? Is that just because you won't get any use out of the province if you win the war? @dis - on reflection "strength" was an inarticulate way of putting it when Strength is a thing - I more meant that their troops are comparatively bad since they're size 3 and rack up masses of fatigue when everything else is size 2. In an even fight, that's 1 less attack and -2 defence on one of the Caelans per square in a stand-up fight. Quite important to consider.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:26
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So a (10+2*slave) popkill with O3 means that the a 6000 province will last quite a while at neutral or even D1 scales, right?
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Feb 17, 2014 22:03
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If it isn't being patrolled, yeah.
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Feb 17, 2014 22:26
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Unrest reduction from pd doesn't seem to affect province pop either so if you find one of those rare but hugely profitable 20k+ people provinces and have order dominion you can sink some gold into pd and turn the province into bloodhunt central; combine it with a bit of patrolling and you can easily have like four dudes blood hunting constantly for quite awhile. This is probably hideously inefficient but I like it none the less.
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Feb 17, 2014 22:34
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Neruz posted:Unrest reduction from pd doesn't seem to affect province pop either so if you find one of those rare but hugely profitable 20k+ people provinces and have order dominion you can sink some gold into pd and turn the province into bloodhunt central; combine it with a bit of patrolling and you can easily have like four dudes blood hunting constantly for quite awhile. Once you get to the point where you don't have anymore empty provinces to shove more hunters into, patrolling unrest down and simply stacking more hunters on fat provinces definitely works. Bonus points if you have cheap maintenance free crap to patrol with.
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Feb 17, 2014 23:02
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How about bloodhunting on enemy caps?
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Feb 17, 2014 23:18
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Neruz posted:if you have order dominion Don't 90% of builds max order though? It seems like with the exception of toxic dominions like MA Ermor or those demon nations that like turmoil (Yomi?), every build I see maxes order from the word go. All the other scales seem like tough choices with pros and cons to weigh except for this one. Is this a balance problem, or because of the metagame, or am I just wrong on this?
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Feb 18, 2014 00:53
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There seem to be two major camps; the first camp says order is absolutely 100% essential, the second camp says the first camp is full of poo poo. I have no idea which camp is correct.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:15
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I've been a fan of EA or MA Pangaea with T3L3, though it's not like I play to win against min-max players.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:34
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ClothHat posted:Don't 90% of builds max order though? It seems like with the exception of toxic dominions like MA Ermor or those demon nations that like turmoil (Yomi?), every build I see maxes order from the word go. All the other scales seem like tough choices with pros and cons to weigh except for this one. Is this a balance problem, or because of the metagame, or am I just wrong on this? It depends a lot on what your overall strategy is/how gold intensive your best units are. If you have a very specific idea of what you're going to be doing in the game you can deviate from it. It's not really a balance problem, but new players/players new to playing a nation tend to do better with strong scales because there's no wrong way to play it, whereas heavy bless/bad scales strategies can completely screw you by mid-game. Smerdyakov fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 02:21
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I almost always try to have Order 1 or 2 on my pretenders, but I wouldn't say that it's mandatory to max it or even have it at all. I'm still fairly new to the game though, so maybe take that with a grain of salt.
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Feb 18, 2014 02:34
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I think the reason people like order so much is it's reliably good for literally everyone; there is no civilization in the game that cannot benefit from more money, unrest reduction and less irritating barbarian attacks. Order is a safe choice which makes it popular.
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Feb 18, 2014 02:40
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Don't take Misfortune 3 though. Barbarians, Knights, Horrors, Ancient Presences, Heroes, Vinemen. EVERY OTHER TURN 
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Feb 18, 2014 02:49
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amuayse posted:Don't take Misfortune 3 though. Barbarians, Knights, Horrors, Ancient Presences, Heroes, Vinemen. EVERY OTHER TURN Yeah unless you like playing russian roulette Misfortune 3 is to be avoided at all costs; there are a number of really nasty neutral attacks that only unlock in Misfortune 3 and they are brutal. Unless you are one of those magical bastards who is immune to bad luck in which case free points for you, you fuckers. You know who you are.
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Feb 18, 2014 02:51
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What are some of the stand-out awful events in Misfortune 3? I can't even bring myself to take Misfortune at all, so I have no idea but because this is Dominions I expect them to be awesome.
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Feb 18, 2014 02:59
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amuayse posted:How about bloodhunting your own cap? Ftfy and yes.
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Feb 18, 2014 03:21
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How are u posted:What are some of the stand-out awful events in Misfortune 3? I can't even bring myself to take Misfortune at all, so I have no idea but because this is Dominions I expect them to be awesome. Here's a few of the more bad ones, I don't know how many of these *require* mis3 and some require other scales but you'll see them a lot more the more misfortune you have Province revolt: you instantly lose a province without a commander in it, any units rout to adjoining provinces and any PD are dissolved, also increases turmoil and unrest in the province. Probably doesn't happen to provinces with a fort in them Plague: lose 50%? of population in a province Ancient Presence: almost all population in a province dies, a bunch of mandragora spawn led by a mandragora commander Bogus: Bogus and friends appear in your provinces, they like to snipe commanders and can rout much larger armies this way Magic is Fading: all your bitcoin vanish Flavahbeast fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 05:06
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Unless it has changed since beta you most definitely can lose provinces with forts and commanders in them with the revolt. it puts everyone inside the fort outside and burns your temple. It also doesn't require mis3. Plagues don't, either, but every death scale present adds another chance to get one. Ditto magic is fading and drain scales. Ancient presence only shows up with Growth 3 and Bogus doesn't have any particular conditions.
dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 05:12
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Welp, just had my first instance where I lost a big battle due to a commander deciding that he didn't want to cast a scripted spell. Is there any way to try and mitigate the chances of this happening? I was under the impression that it could happen during fights that the AI considers too "easy" but my troops were outnumbered in this fight. One other thing was that I had him scripted to cast a spell where he needed to spend gems to increase his magic level (he had plenty and only needed a single level increase) - does that increase the chances of the AI screwing up? TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 06:14
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