|
blackguy32 posted:Then why are we talking about it in this thread? The thread about discussing how the Wii U is having trouble and what can Nintendo do to prop it up. Quest For Glory II posted:Okay. Right here is the nexus where outsized expectations for a game and frustration over the current state of the WiiU meet. Why are we talking about DKCTF in the WiiUSux thread? I don't know? Somebody raised the topic? Opinions were then exchanged. Are we only allowed to discuss AAA/expected system seller games in the WiiU is doomed thread? On the topic of MK and SSB: Mario Kart and Smash are proven system sellers, and they will sell WiiU systems. The problem is, they won't sell nearly as many WiiUs as people think/expect, or that Nintendo needs to sell. MK is mostly a game people have to own if they already own the Nintendo system in question. And Smash will sell systems to Smash fans. Unless Nintendo pulls something out of its rear end, the WiiU is mostly done. When your strategy is to offer 15 year old GBA games exclusively on your home console in the hopes of selling units, you're toast. Nintendo refuses to adapt, and should die, go 3rd party, whatever. JesusLovesRonwell fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Feb 18, 2014 |
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 01:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 06:28 |
|
|
JesusLovesRonwell posted:But no one claimed TF was going to be a system seller. As a product, it was never intended to be a system seller. Every title is intended to have an accumulative effect on a consumer's interest in the platform. No one title is created with the expectation that people will buy the system for only that one game. DKCTF is no different than Smash Bros or Mario Kart or SM3DW.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 01:59
|
|
|
You're 100% right, and we're in total agreement. But some releases are bigger than others and you know that. DKCTF is not Pokemon X, and shouldn't have the balance of a company's existence or a given platform's viability and value, tied to a critical evaluation, which was the original argument.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 02:12
|
|
|
AngryCaterpillar posted:Every title is intended to have an accumulative effect on a consumer's interest in the platform. No one title is created with the expectation that people will buy the system for only that one game. DKCTF is no different than Smash Bros or Mario Kart or SM3DW. I'd buy the system for TF if I hadn't already. DKC:R is one of my all time favorites.  Different games are system sellers for different people, I bought a 3DS for Phoenix Wright, some people did for Pokemon, some did for ALBW. Once Nintendo gets a first party Zelda, and SSB, they're going to get a bunch more sales. Not enough to save the system, but plenty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 02:31
|
|
|
Austrian mook posted:I'd buy the system for TF if I hadn't already. DKC:R is one of my all time favorites. That's what I was saying: although very few people buy a system with the intention of buying only one game, it could be any singular game that initially sells someone on the system. As for the reviews concerning themselves with this, I can only say it would be really weird if movie reviews were based on the reviewer's investment in the studio's business decisions.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 02:52
|
|
|
AngryCaterpillar posted:That's what I was saying, although very few people buy a system with the intention of buying only one game, it could be any singular game that initially sells someone on the system. As for the reviews concerning themselves with this, I can only say it would be really weird if movie reviews were based on the reviewer's investment in the studio's business decisions. I really loving hate video game reviews because they get caught up in stupid poo poo. "But it doesn't bring anything new to the table" "it's not the system seller nintendo is looking for" "it doesn't take advantage of the WiiU's capabilities, (second screen, HD)" . Like, gently caress I don't care, just loving tell me how good the game is, is it good? Tell me that. Why is it good, what does it to well, what could be better?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 02:55
|
|
|
greatn posted:DKTF, Smash 4, and MK8 are the only games I'm aware of that I'm interested in buying now for the remainder of the console's life, That's pretty good, considering that the only other big retail releases known right now are X, Bayonetta, and... gently caress, Child of Light? That's all that's announced right now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 03:10
|
|
|
While I do think Nintendo's has issues with software quality and innovation for some titles it's hardly the major issue facing the WiiU. Their first party games have been on par or even better (or slightly worse) than the first party offerings of Sony and MS so quality isn't an issue. It's the fact they can't hit a release window at all that's really hurting them for their games. If Tropical Freeze, Smash, and MK8 all hit last year than the WiiU could of stood a chance. Instead we have TF left to die in the post holiday window, MK hopefully shipping sometime spring (but probably not likely) and who knows when Smash will hit (hopefully Holiday). That's creating huge problems for Nintendo and it may be too late to fix as the WiiU continues to die on the vine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 03:12
|
|
|
SatoshiMiwa posted:While I do think Nintendo's has issues with software quality and innovation for some titles it's hardly the major issue facing the WiiU. Their first party games have been on par or even better (or slightly worse) than the first party offerings of Sony and MS so quality isn't an issue. It's the fact they can't hit a release window at all that's really hurting them for their games. Bit of a botanical-philosophical derail but can things which fail to come to fruition actually wither on the vine
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 04:41
|
|
|
Antares posted:Bit of a botanical-philosophical derail but can things which fail to come to fruition actually wither on the vine It's still on the vine because no one is eating it; it looks gross.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 04:50
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Okay. This is straw manning no? Where did people say DKCTF was going to be a system seller? Astro7x posted:That's pretty good, considering that the only other big retail releases known right now are X, Bayonetta, and... gently caress, Child of Light? That's all that's announced right now. There's also Fire Emblem X Shin Megami Tensei, and Yarn Yoshi. SatoshiMiwa posted:While I do think Nintendo's has issues with software quality and innovation for some titles it's hardly the major issue facing the WiiU. Their first party games have been on par or even better (or slightly worse) than the first party offerings of Sony and MS so quality isn't an issue. It's the fact they can't hit a release window at all that's really hurting them for their games. MK8 has a solid release date, May 30. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Feb 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 07:48
|
|
|
X and Fire Emblem X Shin Megami Tensei, along with Mario Kart and Smash would be enough to sell the Wii U I think. At least half of them will be out this year.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 13:23
|
|
|
The_Frag_Man posted:X and Fire Emblem X Shin Megami Tensei, along with Mario Kart and Smash would be enough to sell the Wii U I think. Or rather potential customers who want those games enough to buy a console for them?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 13:39
|
|
|
I imagine Fire Emblem X Shin Megami Tensei will sell some units to Atlus's niche, but that's not really saying much. Then again, I have this weird feeling that game won't actually be released. I don't know why, exactly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 13:41
|
|
|
The_Frag_Man posted:X and Fire Emblem X Shin Megami Tensei, along with Mario Kart and Smash would be enough to sell the Wii U I think. This is a joke, right? Both those games are niche, and one still doesn't have a name and the other hasn't been shown at all and may not exist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 14:28
|
|
|
I think Smash and X combined, assuming they're out at the end of the year, will push a respectable number of consoles but nowhere near what Nintendo would like to see. I'm still surprised they announced Smash for this year and honestly expect it to slip to early 2015 because that's how Nintendo rolls.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 14:40
|
|
|
Motto posted:This is a joke, right? Both those games are niche, and one still doesn't have a name and the other hasn't been shown at all and may not exist. Niche titles sell consoles. There are a lot of people who are big FE fans, and will buy a WiiU for SMT/FE
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 14:41
|
|
|
Austrian mook posted:Niche titles sell consoles. There are a lot of people who are big FE fans, and will buy a WiiU for SMT/FE This isn't even remotely true, why do you think this is true. Stop saying untrue things.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 14:56
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:This isn't even remotely true, why do you think this is true. Stop saying untrue things. Was there not a spike in sales of the 3DS after FE: Awakening launched? Am I completely off base here?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:07
|
|
|
That was a good game in a good series on a good system.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:10
|
|
|
But FE/SMT is from that same series, sort of? Anyways this thread is over predicting Donkey Kong's blandness, it will likely be a very good game. Not going to buy a Wii U for it though and, since Nintendo have basically said they aren't going to drop the price any time soon, probably will not play it for half a decade or so.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:17
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Okay.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:19
|
|
|
PrBacterio posted:This is so disingenious I don't even know what to say. I'm not sure that I've seen a single post claiming the newest Donkey Kong 2D platformer is what's gonna start making those Wii U's sell. The list of potential "system sellers" for the platform has always consisted of Mario 3D World, Mario Kart, Smash and (possibly) Zelda U, and 3D World is the only one that's come out so far and yes, it has failed to make the expected impact, but pretending that every single first party game that's come out so far was intended to be the one end-all be-all "killer app" is just plain dishonest. A lot of people were predicting Wonderful 101 would be a system seller, but it couldn't even sell itself.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:21
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:A lot of people were predicting Wonderful 101 would be a system seller, but it couldn't even sell itself. No one sane thought this. Define "a lot" here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:25
|
|
|
Yeah, I haven't read anything about people saying DKC would move systems. Louisgod posted:I think Smash and X combined, assuming they're out at the end of the year, will push a respectable number of consoles but nowhere near what Nintendo would like to see. I'm still surprised they announced Smash for this year and honestly expect it to slip to early 2015 because that's how Nintendo rolls. Or the game will actually be finished in May, but it can't compete with Mario Kart at the same time, and summer is a dead zone, and they need a game for Holiday 2014 so they'll delay it until November. Because that's how Nintendo rolls. The good news is that we should start hearing new game announcements at E3, and because Nintendo keeps projects under wraps until they are near completion, and a few should be ready by end of year. 2014 is lacking announcements for all the major consoles right now... Ugly In The Morning posted:A lot of people were predicting Wonderful 101 would be a system seller, but it couldn't even sell itself. Who are these people? It's always been Smash and Kart, and 3D World until it failed to mov systems
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:26
|
|
|
I think system sellers were a thing, but in the pre-Facebook/mobile game days, when your choices for gaming were "console" and "nothing" (PC gaming didn't count because computers were like $2000-$3000 in early 90's money). And system sellers back then were generally pack-in games that came with the console (Mario 1 for NES, Mario World for SNES, Sonic 1 for Genesis), in an era where if you owned more than 4 games it was a lot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:27
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:A lot of people were predicting Wonderful 101 would be a system seller, but it couldn't even sell itself. (bold prediction time: Bayonetta 2 is also not going to be the killer app that finally makes the Wii U sell). I'll say this, though: The fact that 3D World's impact was so small (I think it did have a measurable impact on sales, though) doesn't bode well at all for the Wii U's future, and it may very well be too late for it now. But still the point stands, the actual list of games that could reasonably be argued to be the make-or-break point for the console is fairly short and even though it's probably correct to say the console is dead in the water at this point you don't do yourself any favours by arguing the point dishonestly by claiming that every single game that's ever come out for it was the supposed killer app that everybody was surprised when it failed to change the Wii U's sales trajectory.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:30
|
|
|
univbee posted:I think system sellers were a thing, but in the pre-Facebook/mobile game days, when your choices for gaming were "console" and "nothing" (PC gaming didn't count because computers were like $2000-$3000 in early 90's money). And system sellers back then were generally pack-in games that came with the console (Mario 1 for NES, Mario World for SNES, Sonic 1 for Genesis), in an era where if you owned more than 4 games it was a lot. I'm one of those people that got a Genisis for only Sonic 2, and then never got another game for it :-(. On the other hand, my parents had wonderful insight on what was a good game back then. I look at my collection compared to my wife's, and I had Contra, Zelda, Mario and all the good games. She had Back To The Future, 3 Stooges, and all the other crappy games that get made fun of today
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:31
|
|
|
I think it's safe to say that MK and SSB will move a respectable number (compared to how it sold this past holiday season)of Wii U's, but not nearly enough to make the system as lucrative as it needs to be for third party devs to come running back to it. I don't think anyone sane thought DKTC was going to move systems or become this killer app for the Wii U. It looked to be a entertaining but not groundbreaking game before it's release, and that seems to be the case based on the scores/reviews it's getting. I don't think an 82 on metacritic (which is a poo poo system, I agree) is really saying anything bad about the game other than it's not a killer app or something that will drive system purchases all by itself.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 15:40
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:I think Smash and X combined, assuming they're out at the end of the year, will push a respectable number of consoles but nowhere near what Nintendo would like to see. I'm still surprised they announced Smash for this year and honestly expect it to slip to early 2015 because that's how Nintendo rolls. X is a niche game. It won't push hardware to any significant degree, certainly not with the level of marketing it'll most likely get. If it even sells 200K retail between NA and Japan, I'd be surprised. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Feb 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
Austrian mook posted:Was there not a spike in sales of the 3DS after FE: Awakening launched? Am I completely off base here? Barry Convex posted:X is a niche game. It won't push hardware to any significant degree, certainly not with the level of marketing it'll most likely get. I'm getting conflicting messages here guys!! Niche games sell consoles, and they also don't sell consoles. I'd label FE as a niche title that exceeded expectations, but at the same time it was the most accessible game in the series for people to jump into. I wonder if having a demo out 2 months before its release helped with the sales? As for X, again, I think it'll easily do 200k between NA and Japan but nothing exceptional beyond that. If it's released along with Smash it MAY be able to piggyback that same crowd of consumers but I doubt it'll be out this year.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:I'm getting conflicting messages here guys!! Niche games sell consoles, and they also don't sell consoles. Niche titles help push console sales a bit in that they may help people sitting on the fence for a console, which is why FE probably spiked 3DS sales. But the WiiU isn't anywhere near that point as a console really. It's still stuck in the "Yeah, it has a few great games but I'm not paying $300 for that" phase and the fact it's line up is barren beyond that doesn't help. Not to mention systems like the 3DS and PS3 have titles like X in the pipeline anyway means most of those fans will go to those systems for the games and not buy a WiiU that will really only get 2 games of that type. I also have the sneaking feeling that FE/SMT will get moved to the 3DS since Atlus would probably like to actually sell the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:01
|
|
|
Let's be honest here... what the Wii U needs is to bankroll Shenmue 3 as an exclusive.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
I bought a Dreamcast for Phantasy Star Online because it offered a "unique" gameplay experience at the time, and that's the only time I ever felt prey to a system seller/killer app/buzzword Nowadays, you just buy the system all your friends have or whatever one has the features you want since first party games are pretty inconsequential. Unfortunately for Nintendo, that's all they have
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
zenintrude posted:Let's be honest here... what the Wii U needs is to bankroll Shenmue 3 as an exclusive. The best case scenario for the Wii U at this point is hoping that a bunch of people trick Nintendo into bankrolling really awesome niche games that also have little chance of success. It will truly be the second coming of the Dreamcast (but without any third party support really).
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:11
|
|
|
Harlock posted:first party games are pretty inconsequential I'd disagree... there are probably not an insignificant amount of people who bought a PS4 over an Xbone because they like Sony's first party properties and subsidiaries.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:11
|
|
|
zenintrude posted:Let's be honest here... what the Wii U needs is to bankroll Shenmue 3 as an exclusive. No.... nooo...... I don't want to buy a Wii U......
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
They should start making nothing but sequels to dead series. Shenmue 3, Power Stone 3, Mega Man Legends 3, Seiken Densetsu 4, Startropics 3, New Super Crash Bandicoot Returns!, Bayonetta 2, Killer 8, Metroid: The Third Heretofore Unmentioned M, Sega's Facefish That Talks the Legend Continues, etc. It will maximize pissing everyone off and not really move any console, so it would be right up Nintendo's alley.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
SatoshiMiwa posted:Niche titles help push console sales a bit in that they may help people sitting on the fence for a console, which is why FE probably spiked 3DS sales. But the WiiU isn't anywhere near that point as a console really. It's still stuck in the "Yeah, it has a few great games but I'm not paying $300 for that" phase and the fact it's line up is barren beyond that doesn't help. Not to mention systems like the 3DS and PS3 have titles like X in the pipeline anyway means most of those fans will go to those systems for the games and not buy a WiiU that will really only get 2 games of that type. In an alternate reality where Nintendo actually knew how to market and appeal to a broader core console audience and not just fans of their traditional first-party IP, I'd be a good deal more optimistic about X's sales (though I still probably wouldn't mention it in the same sentence as SSB4, as far as system-selling potential goes). But if that were the case, Wii U would be selling much better than it is and this thread likely wouldn't exist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 06:28 |
|
|
If Nintendo got Obsidian and Sega to make an Alpha Protocol sequel I'd buy a Wii U right now. Other than that, I'd only buy one if I saw it stupidly cheap in a store or I'm drunk. And I loving love Nintendo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:18
|
|
