ed balls balls man posted:

Shut the heck up idiots. Any thoughts on David Annandale? I read somewhere he has a HH novel coming out, then checked out his work. He has a few eNovellas and a SM battles book but haven't read any of it myself.

TheStampede posted:

Since my passing comment from the other day seems to have sparked off a debate, I'll at least clarify what my understanding was when making it.

The part of A.I. that is bad is the Intelligence part. When talking about the Machine Spirit of some advanced vehicle or weapon, be it a titan or power armor, it is described as animalistic or instinct based. They don't think, they react. The way I see it (and this was a tough one for me to suss out for a while), the Machine Spirit of a titan is kind of the, "eyes in the back of the head", or "sixth sense". The pilot can focus it's intellect on commanding and interpreting information, and the Machine Spirit makes sure no one sneaks up on it, or that it accidentally trips over it's own legs. Maybe it oversees a lot of basic internal regulations that are unimportant to the crew as well. Basically, it's A.I, or at least it serves the general function, but it doesn't command or control anything. 'Cause while everyone likes the newest, flashiest way to kill things still, that whole debacle with the Iron Men really soured them on the idea of robits thinking too much for themselves.

Also, not everything that an imperial or tech-priest says has a machine spirit, has a Machine Spirit, proper. There is a lot of lost knowledge or mis-remembered instructions that have devolved into things like praying to your bolter or burning incense for a successful restart of a monitor.

MrNemo posted:

That's why the God-Emperor gave tank commanders chain swords

Baron Bifford posted:

I didn't even start this debate.

Baron Bifford posted:

I didn't even start this debate.

Dog_Meat posted:

Aziraphale posted:

I found it really amusing in Helsreach when they tried to reawaken some titan killer suit. It turns out that their rituals and solvents were just pre-operation maintenance.

VanSandman posted:

You are the obligatory thread whipping boy.

I don't think you're a bad person but you're much better off asking questions than you are at providing answers. You aren't Darth Windu, that's for sure.

Cream_Filling posted:

I disagree, I think his questions are the worst part. Stuff like "hey I was just reading Lexicanum and I have to ask why don't they just science their way out of being a grimdark future that would be so much better and clearly this means I'm so smart."

Dog_Meat posted:

This is WH40k. It's INSANE. Do not apply logic. That said, I agree with you.

Your 20th century F-16 has an onboard system that helps the pilot with as much as possible. It tracks targets, filters them by threat, handles the engine management, breaks things down and displays them in a way that the pilot can react to. There's even a voice that says "PULL UP!" and systems in place that can sense the pilot has let go of the controls and will then level out safely.

Now imagine the 40k version of that. We no longer know anything about the "Bitching Betty" voice. We just know that when we fly the machine speaks to us and protects us. "I passed out, but the blessed spirit of my plane spoke and saved me". We also know that if we follow the rituals and press the right buttons, she'll look after us. This is a batshit crazy society who are living in the most superstitious, ridiculous mash up of religious fervour and planet breaking war machines. Your titan knows how to ruin the enemy's poo poo. It WANTS to ruin the enemy's poo poo. It just needs a human to say "go forth and ruin mine enemy's poo poo".

Also - this is WH40k. Everything wants to kill you.

EVERYTHING.

Remember that whole Horus Heresy thing? Mechanicum? Where the bad guys literally infect the entire martian network with a sentient, warp infused virus? That poo poo is STILL in there 10,000 years later. Sure, you might get a tank off the production line that runs exactly as the manual says it should, or it could suddenly spark up some piece of scrap code that kicks in and switches from "who would you like to kill today?" to "Ima gon rape you with tentacles".

Remember - even 10,000 years ago they didn't know how things work. It was all broken, and all we know is that when machines have sentience they kind of see us for what we are and go all skynet on us. The Big E has told us not to mess with that poo poo because AIs are dangerous. Not because he's a dick (he is) - but because this actually happened. Machines that can think want to kill us. All of us. Yes, even you.

Now the Big E was rediscovering all the old tech, but BOOM - galactic civil war and suddenly everything is sprouting tentacles, horns and trying to kill you. Not to mention all the good work being done by the more progressive mechanicum to de-mistify science is lost. And you're left with the broken toys of 30,000 years of lost progress, no instructions and the very real possibility that switching something on will result in the death of you, your planet and possibly the entire sector.

The Imperium can't afford to say "guys, here's the definition for an AI" or "You don't need to sing to your rifle you loving retard". There are too many people, too many minds and too much tainted or misunderstood crazy poo poo to risk it. So you tell Sgt. Expendable to recite the goddam prayer, oil his gun, lovingly rack the first round into the chamber and go kill poo poo. At worst, you're making him maintain a simple piece of kit and ensuring it's in good working order. By the time you get up to the bigger stuff, you're probably saving lives.

Do we need to join hands and sing hymns before switchin on a generator on some rediscovered backwater world? Probably not. But this is 40k. The one time you DON'T do that you find yourself being buggered by some tentacle demon that you thought was a toaster, your eyes are forever tainted by the sight of the food blender sprouting horns and a tongue, what you thought was a forklift truck is now tearing round your warehouse screaming "blood for the blood god" and the tannoy keeps killing people with enuncia. Don't worry - the inquisition are on their way.

In 40k you don't debate with Baron Bifford. You exterminatus him. And anyone who spoke to him. And anyone that spoke to them.

Sorry guys...

Aziraphale posted:

Is there a series about the Word Bearers fighting the ultra marines?

Aziraphale posted:

Is there a series about the Word Bearers fighting the ultra marines?

MisterMarmite posted:

To get away from the bullying and pointless nerd-off and back onto literary content, the Night Lords novels have been impossible to get hold off for a while, but the Omnibus is out on May 22nd. I look forward to some quality reading post-exams.

TheStampede posted:

Serpentis posted:

Which is actually why despite the goofy helmet, I actually rather like it. Lot better than some of the covers recently; see the individual Salamaders book covers which just look a little off to me. Besides their ... content.

Serpentis posted:

Huh. Still not necessarily a fan, but nice to know that. While we're on the topic, I've picked up the occasional comment from the chat the Night Lords books are drat good. Good enough to get the omnibus the minute it becomes available (not read a one myself yet)?

Serpentis posted:

Huh. Still not necessarily a fan, but nice to know that. While we're on the topic, I've picked up the occasional comment from the thread that the Night Lords books are drat good. Good enough to get the omnibus the minute it becomes available (not read one myself yet)?

Serpentis posted:

Huh. Still not necessarily a fan, but nice to know that. While we're on the topic, I've picked up the occasional comment from the thread that the Night Lords books are drat good. Good enough to get the omnibus the minute it becomes available (not read one myself yet)?

Aziraphale posted:

I used to be a crew chief on 16s. You a viper wiper?

Aziraphale posted:

Is there a series about the Word Bearers fighting the ultra marines?

Dog_Meat posted:

Sadly, no. Just a flight sim nut and Falcon fan.


There's always "Battle for the Abyss"

Aziraphale posted:

Yea I just read that and felt they had set up well for a big punch up between the two legions.

VanSandman posted:

You poor man. But really, Know No Fear is what you want.

One Legged Cat posted:

That being said, Know No Fear is technically part 2 of a great 3-part arc, and it's predecessor, The First Heretic, is about the Word Bearer's fall (and why they have so much beef with the Ultramarines), and not only lends extra fun to the following two books, but is also by ADB and is one of the best Heresy books. If you're interested in Word Bearers vs. Ultramarines, the First Heretic > No Know Fear > Betrayer arc is a must-read.

Aziraphale posted:

Where does mark of calth fit into this?

Aziraphale posted:

Ok, I'll check those out after I re-read the NL trilogy.

Speaking of, why did Konrad let himself be executed by Mshen? Was it because the emprah rebuked them for their brutality in bringing worlds into compliance? What was it that Curze was vindicated in with his death?

Aziraphale posted:

Ok, I'll check those out after I re-read the NL trilogy.

Speaking of, why did Konrad let himself be executed by Mshen? Was it because the emprah rebuked them for their brutality in bringing worlds into compliance? What was it that Curze was vindicated in with his death?

Fried Chicken posted:

Basically. He got rebuked for using horrific punishment and executions in response to what he arbitrarily deemed crimes. And then the imperium named him traitor and sent an assassin to kill him as punishment. Basically, he was "vindicated" by getting them to do what he was doing, exposing their hypocrisy and getting them to discard their ideals.

Basically, the Joker thing. He got them to cross the line they said not to cross and got them to act as badly as he did.