|
Sarcasmatron posted:Good News: Got three phone interviews in at Hulu; wrote the best cover letter I've ever written.
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 16:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 07:26 |
|
|
Che Delilas posted:I hate this every time I hear it. It just underlines the fact that working in businesses with a management hierarchy of any real size sucks for people like us who want to actually get things done. Managers like your example, who actually do their loving jobs, are too busy actually working to be bothered with all the game-playing, and will inevitably be pushed out by the politicians.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 16:08
|
|
|
Misogynist posted:I've gotten into philosophical disagreements with the Director of Internet Engineering before and still gotten an offer. As long as you can follow whatever methodology they put forth whether you're enthusiastic about it or not, it shouldn't make a difference. That's going to entirely depend on how reasonable the person on the other end of the conversation is, and how tactful Sarcasmatron was in his argument. "Didn't end well" implies that he didn't gracefully disengage nearly soon enough, but I could be wrong.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
Misogynist posted:I've gotten into philosophical disagreements with the Director of Internet Engineering before and still gotten an offer. As long as you can follow whatever methodology they put forth whether you're enthusiastic about it or not, it shouldn't make a difference. The guy started off the interview in full grognard mode, and it went downhill from there: that he was a business-systems guy who didn't understand development of multiple concurrent mobile apps at all didn't help. Funny thing is, everyone I spoke to really went on about how much autonomy they had in their positions, which I translated as follows: 1. Teams are heavily siloed and don't interact with each other at all. 2. Middle management is concerned about how the changing of the guard with the new CEO is going to impact their silos. Overall, it was good insight into the culture there -- while name-recognition makes for easy resume-gardening, it's not someplace I want to be working. Che Delilas posted:That's going to entirely depend on how reasonable the person on the other end of the conversation is, and how tactful Sarcasmatron was in his argument. "Didn't end well" implies that he didn't gracefully disengage nearly soon enough, but I could be wrong. Reasonable? It was completely one-sided. He had 3-4 stock questions for me and was monosyllabic in his responses to my questions. Tactful? For the most part. Graceful disengagement? That's where it didn't end well. I generally ask a final question that's I like to refer to as my Continuous Improvement question. It usually goes something like this: code:Except this guy. His response: "I don't feel comfortable answering that question. That's a matter for internal discussion." At that point, I knew we were done. Feral Bueller fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Feb 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
Sarcasmatron posted:Reasonable? It was completely one-sided. He had 3-4 stock questions for me and was monosyllabic in his responses to my questions. I was referring specifically to the argument you said you had with him on development methodologies, not the interview at large. Graceful disengagement means that you recognize when the specific discussion is becoming counterproductive, since this is an interview, and say something to help the interview move on. Sounds to me like that guy wasn't really the bad news, though. The bad news is that you figured out you don't want to work at that company after putting your time and energy into applying. That guy just helped you realize it!
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 16:50
|
|
|
Possible YOTJ here, I'm just not sure about it. Background: I'm a government contractor working in IT / Human Resources. I'd be going from 7:30-4 M-F to 11:45p-7a M-F with every other weekend on, with overtime. It's a Fed Civilian job instead of government contract work, and about a 5k raise. I'm already working way above my pay grade here, I'm the highest paid on the contracting staff but it's still crap. I just wish it was a day shift, working days and no weekends for the last 5 years has spoiled me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
That schedule sounds like a nightmare. $crap plus $5k is still going to be crap, you can almost certainly find something better that does not also involve completely destroying your social life (and family/relationship if applicable).
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:40
|
|
|
Just had the final interview for a very decent position in a nice part of London in a laid back company that seem to want to give you all the equipment and budget you need to succeed. It's between me and one other guy and I should hear back this week. Hopefully my experience which extends past the usual IT stuff will swing it for me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:44
|
|
|
Docjowles posted:That schedule sounds like a nightmare. $crap plus $5k is still going to be crap, you can almost certainly find something better that does not also involve completely destroying your social life (and family/relationship if applicable). It definitely would throw my family in a loop. My wife is also a federal contractor and we work at the same facility, on the same shift currently. Part of me wants to get the offer letter, present it to the command here to try and leverage it into a comparable Civilian position. (The job offer is at a different facility.) It's happened with contractors before. It's not something I would try in the private sector, but the way things work in the DoD when it comes to hiring / placement are bizarre. Verdugo fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Feb 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:47
|
|
|
Verdugo posted:
This will destroy your sleep schedule, sanity, and social life. The only thing worse for your physical and mental health than 3rd shift would be one of those 36 hour rotating dealios
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 17:52
|
|
|
A buddy of mine is 34 and has been working 3rd shift since he was 19. He has been single since he was 19.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 18:03
|
|
|
GreenNight posted:A buddy of mine is 34 and has been working 3rd shift since he was 19. He has been single since he was 19. Unless you are a person that is naturally a night-owl and willing to live life as such, a third shift schedule is going to make your life a total poop dream.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
ElGroucho posted:Unless you are a person that is naturally a night-owl and willing to live life as such, a third shift schedule is going to make your life a total poop dream. Agreed. I did it for a couple years during college and it was the worst. I was a much happier person, and lost some weight after I went to a normal schedule.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
Your friends will hate you. I have a friend that works (non-IT) 3rd shift and it's just a royal PITA. Basically, the only time we can do anything is after 8pm on a Saturday and that's only if he happens to get enough sleep that morning. It's a constant trade off of "do I exclude him from group plans or try to warp them to fit his schedule." The former happens more than the later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 18:25
|
|
|
I mostly see movies at 10am on Sundays because of his 3rd shift schedule.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
I did 3rd shift for the past 3 years in the Navy and liked it  When they asked me to go to 1st, I actually turned it down to stay on third.Didn't destroy any social or family life. Basically if you just think about it as swapping normal working hours and normal sleeping hours you realize it's no big deal. Plus, a benefit is none of the higher ups are typically around, making it a more laid back atmosphere. But, then again that was the Navy. So I'm sure YMMV.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 18:53
|
|
|
But swapping normal working hours and sleeping hours around is also swapping around the opening hours of any businesses you might need to deal with, and an after work drink now becomes a before work one, which isn't really doable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
Caged posted:But swapping normal working hours and sleeping hours around is also swapping around the opening hours of any businesses you might need to deal with, and an after work drink now becomes a before work one, which isn't really doable. Or a morning one, which is weird.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 19:15
|
|
|
ElGroucho posted:Unless you are a person that is naturally a night-owl and willing to live life as such, a third shift schedule is going to make your life a total poop dream. You just hang out with other third-shift people. Bars are open at 7am, restaurants are open for breakfast (or dinner), and if you live near a factory the chicks that work there on 3rd shift are usually pretty skanky. Being the sole third-shifter in your social circle would be horrible, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
Smash firstshiftism, long live Maoism Third Shiftism
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 19:20
|
|
|
Verdugo posted:Possible YOTJ here, I'm just not sure about it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
Third shift is never worth it unless you're a shut-in with no family or friends.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 19:25
|
|
|
three posted:Third shift is never worth it unless you're a shut-in with no family or friends. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware / Software Crap > Working in IT 3.0: You're a shut-in with no family or friends 
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
three posted:Third shift is never worth it unless you're a shut-in with no family or friends. loving this. I worked Third shift off and on for about a decade, and past a certain point unless you're one of those types who thrives on the night hours, it's not worth it. Getting a haircut alone can become a huge pain in the rear end, never mind seeing friends or family.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 20:03
|
|
|
three posted:Third shift is never worth it unless you're a shut-in with no family or friends. I'm retrospect, I guess the reason it wasn't bad for me was because all my friends were from my shift and I am naturally a shut in
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 20:10
|
|
|
Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:I'm retrospect, I guess the reason it wasn't bad for me was because all my friends were from my shift and I am naturally a shut in I imagine being in the Navy is a lot different from civilian life, so my comment may not apply.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 20:15
|
|
|
Verdugo posted:Part of me wants to get the offer letter, present it to the command here to try and leverage it into a comparable Civilian position. (The job offer is at a different facility.) It's happened with contractors before. It's not something I would try in the private sector, but the way things work in the DoD when it comes to hiring / placement are bizarre. A contractor leveraging a Civilian job offer from somewhere else in an effort to secure a transition into a Civilian position at their current contract site and it working is rare and most definitely something that doesn't happen overnight, even if they are currently advertising a billet you match up with. It's just not how the government and mainly OPM works. If there isn't even a billet open, it's not like the private world where they go to HR and ask to post a job to Monster, it's a very lengthy process to get a billet open. And in either case, nothing is guaranteed no matter what your command tells you because the moment some with prior GS / Vet points / MDR'd pref applies, you are moved down the list.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 20:21
|
|
|
I thought I was making good money, but I went out this past weekend with a friend of mine who does consulting for the DOD. Last year he made just over double my salary. He's just over $250k. loving ludicrous. Of course he got a poo poo ton of hazard pay for having to go to Iraq. So I guess it evens out. But still. That's crazy money.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
HatfulOfHollow posted:I thought I was making good money, but I went out this past weekend with a friend of mine who does consulting for the DOD. Last year he made just over double my salary. He's just over $250k. loving ludicrous. We've been there over 10 years haven't we? There have got to be guys that have banked $1-$2 million if they go every year.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
Thanks for the advice, everyone, going to think about this pretty hard. I don't have a lot of buddies at work that I hang out with. I'll be the only one in my circle that works overnights if I take the position, plus it's going to have a big impact on the family if I take it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 21:08
|
|
|
Bob Morales posted:We've been there over 10 years haven't we? I was offered 100K+ to do my crummy, non-IT Army job as a civilian contractor. I can't imagine how much more an experienced IT dude makes. Unless I'm mistaken, that money is tax free. The worst part is that there are stupid amounts of Signal Corps soldiers busy digging ditches and manning guard towers instead of doing the job the government paid thousands of dollars to train them on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 21:10
|
|
|
ElGroucho posted:I was offered 100K+ to do my crummy, non-IT Army job as a civilian contractor. I can't imagine how much more an experienced IT dude makes. Unless I'm mistaken, that money is tax free. To be fair, the training they get is poo poo. I know, I was one of them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 21:21
|
|
|
HatfulOfHollow posted:I thought I was making good money, but I went out this past weekend with a friend of mine who does consulting for the DOD. Last year he made just over double my salary. He's just over $250k. loving ludicrous. It depends if it's "crazy money" or not. If he was his own company and won a DoD contract, $250k - insurances - taxes = a lot less. If he was a W2'd employee to someone like ITTTech / SAIC / CACI and went over there for $250k, he got to claim $98k tax free, but paid taxes on the remaining amount at the $250k bracket. This turns into a lot of money if you go over there with the sole intent of making money because you are paid hourly, so you are working 7days a week, 12hr days just packing in the hours. The base salary for most of the jobs is very similar to what you see in the states, but when you add in all the overtime and hazard pay, that is where the $250k comes from. I have 3 friends that have done it over the previous 7years. One went for 2 x 1yr runs another went for a 1yr run. Both are back in the states working still. Most people that "make a career" out of it have fallen victim to "the more you make the more you spend" syndrome. Their first year over there they built a lifestyle that required that kind of income and had to continually go back in order to maintain it. No one goes over there and clears $250k and comes back to the states expecting to make that much a similar job.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 22:18
|
|
|
GODAMNIT people Taxes Don't Work That Way! You get taxed on a progressive scale and and taxed the amount of the bracket you're in for how deep you're in it. Let's say you're me and I get a new job in the next bracket. 20K to 50K I will be charged at the 15% bracket until 35K and THEN move to the next bracket for the remainder of that money. SO only 15K of that next bracket cash will be taxed at the newer, higher rate. This is the poo poo that has morons saying that they'll "Lose Money" if they get a raise. While this might be true if you're really poor or on gov't aid It's not true if you're making >35k You Should Know Better.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
Misogynist posted:A typical night differential for any job is around 15%, so unless you're making under $35k right now, this is really a pay cut. What the gently caress is a night differential? They didn't teach that in Calculus. Edit: Is it a car part? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 22:28
|
|
|
Dr. Arbitrary posted:What the gently caress is a night differential? They didn't teach that in Calculus. Shift differential -> you get paid more for working undesirable hours.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
It increases the value of your drinking budget, because you'll need it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 22:36
|
|
|
Verdugo posted:my family Stop. These are the only two relevant words in your posts. Don't take the new job.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 22:44
|
|
|
Che Delilas posted:Stop. These are the only two relevant words in your posts. Don't take the new job. You're absolutely right. I sat down with my wife in my office over lunch today and talked about it with her some more -- we discussed it Friday when I spoke to the recruiter. She was all "gung ho" about it back then, but it was only because she didn't want to discourage me without knowing more info about it. She basically told me today that she was waiting for me to come to the "this is a bad idea" conclusion on my own without her input. I love my current job, outside of the payrate, and I'm in a really good position here when it comes to office politics. I'm just going to keep working on training and certs and whatnot in my downtime and keep my options open. Due to my circumstances, the new agency called me out of the blue -- I didn't apply for the job there directly. Thanks for the advice, everyone. I really do appreciate it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2014 22:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 07:26 |
|
|
Well, didn't get the job, poo poo. At least I have a roommate now, so hopefully that'll give me enough slack with my current (lovely) pay to live.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2014 00:34
|
|
