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The Dagda posted:Anyone seeking work who does not have it is counted in the u-3. You may be thinking of the fact that "discouraged workers" - people who are so defeated by their lack of job prospects that they have simply given up looking - are not included in the u-3. Ah thanks, my fault.
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Feb 18, 2014 15:21
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Whoa, calm down, guys. When I said I didn't care where I ended up after law school, I meant purely in the geographic sense. I've had experience interning and working as a legal assistant in public interest and real estate. I actually like the work a lot, but even as a paralegal, there aren't a lot of options to do work beyond what I've already done. I have a 171 lsat, so I kind of figured the marginal bump I could get from taking the test again wouldn't be a significant difference. I guess I'll retake the lsat in June and think about reapplying if I hit above 174ish, so at worse I'll be out the seat deposit from UCLA. Thanks for trying to talk me out of this, feel free to quote this optimistic post back at me if/when I end up back here full of regrets.
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Feb 18, 2014 16:59
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SUPERIOR VENA CAVA posted:I have a 171 lsat, so I kind of figured the marginal bump I could get from taking the test again wouldn't be a significant difference. I guess I'll retake the lsat in June and think about reapplying if I hit above 174ish, so at worse I'll be out the seat deposit from UCLA. It wouldn't hurt to retake since nobody averages these days, anything above a 170 basically means you grasp the logic fine and it's just a matter of luck, nerves, test conditions, having a good breakfast, etc, whether you get a 180 that day. But the applying late is what really screws you over as a splitter. Schools at this point are trying to balance their classes and you're at the mercy of whoever happened to have more early deciders in the opposite pool from you. So a ton of schools didn't even consider you simply because they've already capped out on slackers and need to buff their strivers. Elotana fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 19:53
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The other thing about being someone with a high LSAT / low GPA is that you absolutely have to kill it your first semester. Like, everyone should work their rear end off and kill it first semester, but high LSAT / low GPA usually means you were lazy or took classes from a lovely major in undergrad, which means you're really at risk for repeating that. You have the potential to do better, as your LSAT shows, but you have to be really careful and sure that you'll avoid the same pattern of behavior that got you in hot soup the first time. Plus nobody gives a poo poo about your LSAT score after you start lawschool, so you no longer have a leg up on folks.
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Feb 18, 2014 20:07
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Arcturas posted:The other thing about being someone with a high LSAT / low GPA is that you absolutely have to kill it your first semester. Like, everyone should work their rear end off and kill it first semester, but high LSAT / low GPA usually means you were lazy or took classes from a lovely major in undergrad, which means you're really at risk for repeating that. You have the potential to do better, as your LSAT shows, but you have to be really careful and sure that you'll avoid the same pattern of behavior that got you in hot soup the first time. Plus nobody gives a poo poo about your LSAT score after you start lawschool, so you no longer have a leg up on folks. I'm a little confused as to what difference this would make. Is this for the person looking to transfer or are you referring to perhaps being given a scholarship by your current school after the first semester?
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Feb 18, 2014 20:22
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Pook Good Mook posted:I'm a little confused as to what difference this would make. Is this for the person looking to transfer or are you referring to perhaps being given a scholarship by your current school after the first semester? He's saying, I think, that to get a good job, you may have to change your work ethic more than most of your classmates will, because most of them had very good grades at their undergrads and likely worked harder than you during undergrad.
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Feb 18, 2014 20:27
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MoFauxHawk posted:He's saying, I think, that to get a good job, you may have to change your work ethic more than most of your classmates will, because most of them had very good grades at their undergrads and likely worked harder than you during undergrad. That's what I was trying to say, but didn't do a very good job of explaining. EDIT: The other part thing is that I've seen people who had poor LSAT/good GPA have a rough first semester, then bust rear end second semester and 2L years and manage to line a clerkship that they can parley into a job. Good LSAT/poor GPA folks don't, in my purely anecdotal experience, have the same resilience. Arcturas fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 20:41
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Where is the expectation that I'm a "splitter" coming from? My GPA is at or above the median of most t1 schools... I already said I'd retake the lsat and see if that'd substantially improve my chances.
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Feb 18, 2014 22:33
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Applying early in a cycle will substantially improve your chances, even if you just use your same numbers.
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Feb 18, 2014 22:37
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SUPERIOR VENA CAVA posted:Where is the expectation that I'm a "splitter" coming from? My GPA is at or above the median of most t1 schools... I already said I'd retake the lsat and see if that'd substantially improve my chances. The best school you got in to was UCLA and you have a 171. The term splitter is relative: Splitter doesn't mean your GPA is low in like an objective sense. It means your GPA is low compared to what other people with your LSAT score typically have.
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Feb 18, 2014 22:48
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Green Crayons posted:Applying early in a cycle will substantially improve your chances, even if you just use your same numbers. Cool. I mean, I've got acceptances to all of the schools I've heard back from, so it's just kind of a waiting game right now. The only thing is that the financial support from my parents is contingent on my attending this year. I've tried to persuade them otherwise (I originally wanted to take a gap year), but no luck. It just doesn't seem sensible to give up a guaranteed $60k for a chance at a GPA-contingent scholarship that I might lose due to section stacking or some other thing. I'll study for the June LSAT this year, and apply again if and only if my numbers are in the realm of a substantial scholarship to a t14. SUPERIOR VENA CAVA fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 23:16
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Arcturas posted:That's what I was trying to say, but didn't do a very good job of explaining. Anecdotal counter-evidence time: I had a poo poo GPA (thanks, useless biology degree that you have to fight tooth and nail to get) and fairly high LSAT, and my grades have gone up substantially every semester in law school so far. SUPERIOR VENA CAVA posted:Cool. I mean, I've got acceptances to all of the schools I've heard back from, so it's just kind of a waiting game right now. The only thing is that the financial support from my parents is contingent on my attending this year. I've tried to persuade them otherwise (I originally wanted to take a gap year), but no luck. It just doesn't seem sensible to give up a guaranteed $60k for a chance at a GPA-contingent scholarship that I might lose due to section stacking or some other thing. I'll study for the June LSAT this year, and apply again if and only if my numbers are in the realm of a substantial scholarship to a t14. Here's the thing. If you get into a top-5ish school and don't poo poo the bed once there, you'll have your choice of high-paying jobs which will be able to pay down your additional loans quite quickly. If you attend UCLA, you'll definitely have at least $100,000 in debt and an approximately 25% chance of NOT GETTING ANY LEGAL JOB AT ALL and a 14% chance of ending up at a dippy school-funded job. Only 1/3 of UCLA grads score biglaw. Do the math: You have a better chance of ending up in the proverbial gutter than of getting a job that can be expected to pay down your heavy debt burden in a reasonable time. Compare that with Berkeley, a school competing in a similar/equivalent market, which puts over half of its grads in biglaw (and many others in clerkships). And if you can cut into H/Y/S, you have your pick of the litter. The firms are now competing for you. Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 23:55
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Honest no snark question: What if he wants to work in government job? Not necessarily a federal prosecutor job or some other federal position that's still super competitive, maybe his goal is to be an assistant DA for Nassau county or something. If you've got a reasonable 10-year period before your loans are forgiven (and let's be real, 10 years might be a best case scenario for some graduates in non-governmental positions) is UCLA still a bad choice? Even if his plans are to move back East wouldn't an average graduate from UCLA look better than an average graduate of Cardozo?
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Feb 19, 2014 00:24
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Pook Good Mook posted:Honest no snark question: DA Positions are super competitive nowadays.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:31
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CaptainScraps posted:DA Positions are super competitive nowadays. For people that want to work in government, there was a story in this thread about getting a job in Federal government. It had the line "Luckily, I was deployed to Iraq."
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Feb 19, 2014 00:48
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CaptainScraps posted:DA Positions are super competitive nowadays. Well then to my point, if that's your ideal wouldn't UCLA still be a better option?
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Feb 19, 2014 01:11
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Pook Good Mook posted:Well then to my point, if that's your ideal wouldn't UCLA still be a better option? The people hiring for federal, state, and local positions also care about your school's prestige/ranking. He would still have a better chance of earning such a position from a top 10 or whatever school. Plus, he would be eligible for 10 year public service loan forgiveness and IBR, so the extra debt arguably could still be dealt with. If he specifically wanted to work as a DA in LA, then, well, UCLA would make sense. Granted, I don't know as much about public hiring rates and don't have the numbers in front of me.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:19
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Pook Good Mook posted:Well then to my point, if that's your ideal wouldn't UCLA still be a better option? No. The better option is wait a year and get in somewhere better because these days HYS kids are applying for those DA jobs too.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:20
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Pook Good Mook posted:Well then to my point, if that's your ideal wouldn't UCLA still be a better option? Probably not. Aside from highly prestigious DA's offices like the one in Manhattan--and no UCLA or Cardozo resume is going to get a second look there--most state and local government jobs hire locally. This is especially the case if there are a lot of law schools in the region. DA and PDs' offices are looking for people they can send to trial, not ivory-tower academics--which, fairly or unfairly, students from prestigious schools are commonly perceived as. Therefore, school ranking becomes less important than who knows you, if you know your way around the local court system, things of that nature. A UCLA grad is only really going to be competitive for state and local government positions in SoCal, and will be fighting with grads from not only USC, but Stanford, Berkeley, Hastings, and so on.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:27
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Dear pro pers: I know it's terribly confusing when your notice to appear says "bring all paperwork for review including judgment of divorce filled out and signed." But what we'd like you to do is fill out your judgment of divorce, sign it, and then bring it for review. It doesn't mean "leave all paperwork at home."
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Feb 19, 2014 02:38
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Bro Enlai posted:Probably not. Aside from highly prestigious DA's offices like the one in Manhattan--and no UCLA or Cardozo resume is going to get a second look there--most state and local government jobs hire locally. This is especially the case if there are a lot of law schools in the region. DA and PDs' offices are looking for people they can send to trial, not ivory-tower academics--which, fairly or unfairly, students from prestigious schools are commonly perceived as. Therefore, school ranking becomes less important than who knows you, if you know your way around the local court system, things of that nature. Note that in CA, the best paying offices -- San Francisco, Alameda, LA, and Santa Clara do care where you go. They're also huge offices. UCLA might be the difference between the bay area and Fresno. (This would be worth 100k to me.) Below that it is more about experience, perceived passion, and luck. Also, they'd probably rather hire from the local T3 than an out of state school. Actually luck applies to all of them. Generally running 300 applications per paying job a the moment.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:29
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I graduated from UCLA law in 2011. It went well for some people, badly for others. Get PMs and we can talk.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:18
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SUPERIOR VENA CAVA posted:The only thing is that the financial support from my parents is contingent on my attending this year. I've tried to persuade them otherwise (I originally wanted to take a gap year), but no luck. ATTENTION SUPERIOR VENA CAVA'S PARENTS: THIS THREAD IS FULL OF REAL LIVE LAWYERS WHO WENT TO REAL LIVE LAW SCHOOL WHO ARE UNANIMOUS IN SAYING THAT YOUR CHILD SHOULD NOT ATTEND LAW SCHOOL THIS YEAR. THEY ARE 110% BETTER SERVED IN BOTH DEBT AND EMPLOYMENT PROSPECTS WITH AN EXTRA SUMMER TO APPLY  EARLY, AN EXTRA LSAT, AND MORE OPTIONS (INCLUDING POSSIBLY NOT GOING AT ALL!) IF YOU MAKE YOUR HELP CONTINGENT ON GOING THIS YEAR YOU ARE SHOOTING THEM IN THE GODDAMNED FOOT.
Elotana fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 06:57
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SUPERIOR VENA CAVA posted:Cool. I mean, I've got acceptances to all of the schools I've heard back from, so it's just kind of a waiting game right now. The only thing is that the financial support from my parents is contingent on my attending this year. I've tried to persuade them otherwise (I originally wanted to take a gap year), but no luck. It just doesn't seem sensible to give up a guaranteed $60k for a chance at a GPA-contingent scholarship that I might lose due to section stacking or some other thing. I'll study for the June LSAT this year, and apply again if and only if my numbers are in the realm of a substantial scholarship to a t14. Elotana posted:Come show your parents this post. I'm dead serious. Beckon them over to the monitor and show them the following post: I think Elotana is very concerned about you S. V. Cava. Elotana is correct. Do not go ever, but if you are dedicated then apply next year. I, along with every lawyer in this thread, am telling you exactly what to do. Get a better LSAT and maybe apply next year. This is a major life decision that you are recklessly wading into and, frankly, you are being loving stupid. I am a lawyer, he is a lawyer, we all are lawyers, and we are all giving you the same advice.
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Feb 19, 2014 08:55
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It's not like it's going to take a monster level of effort next year, either. You mark your calendar, sit at the computer, and submit the same information you already have in LSDAS again. But seriously. Don't loving go.
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Feb 19, 2014 09:05
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I haven't read this thread for a while but I guess it's still filled with people who come for advice and then disregard all the advice.
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Feb 19, 2014 13:45
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Draile posted:I haven't read this thread for a while but I guess it's still filled with people who come for advice and then disregard all the advice. They know they are wrong. They come here looking for conformation that they are unique sparkle ponies. Then when we don't affirm that, they dig in deeper hoping we will see the light about them and their unique situation.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:05
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Are you guys suggesting he make decisions independent of his parents like an adult? 
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Feb 19, 2014 15:13
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Guys, I want to point out that my past few posts have literally been along the lines of "yeah, I think I'm going to do what you guys say, but I'm still waiting on more information" because this decision isn't as cut and dry as "herp derp never go."
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Feb 19, 2014 15:30
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insanityv2 posted:Are you guys suggesting he make decisions independent of his parents like an adult? I get it's an unusual and maybe dumb position to be in, but I don't think it's unreasonable to weigh financial incentives regardless of source.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:36
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SUPERIOR VENA CAVA posted:I've tried to persuade them otherwise (I originally wanted to take a gap year), but no luck. (1) Get a job and don't call it a gap year. (2) Call their bluff. If you get into a good school I doubt they'll be like "oh well we would have paid for UCLA, but now that you waited a year so you could get into UVA we'll never support you."
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Feb 19, 2014 15:58
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Wait, is it your TUITION they will only pay if you go this year, or are you just talking about room and board when you say "financial support"? If the latter, get a job. If the former, your parents are basically Lenny and your financial future and happiness are soft little rabbits. Yes I am calling your parents retarded.
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Feb 19, 2014 16:31
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Draile posted:I haven't read this thread for a while but I guess it's still filled with people who come for advice and then disregard all the advice. It's hopeless.
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Feb 19, 2014 16:38
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Soothing Vapors posted:I dont know why you guys bother giving advice at this point. Who was the last person we actually "saved"? Petey? Look at what a shambles he's become with his judicial shamanism and D&D lectures. And he still haunts this thread like Marley's loving ghost. Hey, I was idly considering law school and this thread convinced me not to seriously consider it. So I guess I fall on the prevention end of the spectrum. (And the adventure of a friend who went to the school I was considering, and other acquaintances who went to law school, have proven my decision right, because holy poo poo do I not envy their position.)
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Feb 19, 2014 16:45
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SUPERIOR VENA CAVA posted:Cool. I mean, I've got acceptances to all of the schools I've heard back from, so it's just kind of a waiting game right now. The only thing is that the financial support from my parents is contingent on my attending this year. I've tried to persuade them otherwise (I originally wanted to take a gap year), but no luck. It just doesn't seem sensible to give up a guaranteed $60k for a chance at a GPA-contingent scholarship that I might lose due to section stacking or some other thing. I'll study for the June LSAT this year, and apply again if and only if my numbers are in the realm of a substantial scholarship to a t14. "Gap year" lmao. loving millenials. you're a grown rear end man, get a job and cut your hair FrozenVent posted:Hey, I was idly considering law school and this thread convinced me not to seriously consider it. So I guess I fall on the prevention end of the spectrum.  we matter
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Feb 19, 2014 16:45
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There's a friend of mine who decided not to go to law school because of me and this thread, so we saved another soul there. He's all happy and poo poo now too, it's awful
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Feb 19, 2014 16:49
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Guys, I literally said about three separate times that I'm taking goon advice and am going to probably retake the lsat and reapply. It seems really strange to me that goons are so willing to jump on this circlejerk of shaming people coming into this thread for advice, who actually also take said advice. 
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Feb 19, 2014 17:00
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Soothing Vapors posted:"Gap year" lmao. loving millenials. you're a grown rear end man, get a job and cut your hair Yeah, gap year... Like a year off before applying again for law school. You know, the thing this thread has been telling me to do?
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Feb 19, 2014 17:04
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He's making fun of you for using the phrase "gap year" to begin with, FYI.
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Feb 19, 2014 17:15
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Ainsley McTree posted:There's a friend of mine who decided not to go to law school because of me and this thread, so we saved another soul there. He's all happy and poo poo now too, it's awful You can count another friend of mine in the saved (and happy, and awful) column.
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Feb 19, 2014 17:19
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