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Lobok posted:They could also just be terribly run businesses. Sears is magically badly run. It is so badly run that it was better for division heads to tell their employees to sell competitor products than to sell Sears' in house brand.
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Feb 18, 2014 21:18
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Barudak posted:Sears is magically badly run. It is so badly run that it was better for division heads to tell their employees to sell competitor products than to sell Sears' in house brand. Exactly my point. It's ludicrous to draw the conclusion "the middle class is flailing" from the premise "Sears is struggling". Of course they're struggling - it's run by a pack of incompetent jokers and has been for years.
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Feb 18, 2014 21:26
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So what's a successful middle class retailer? The Bay? Joe fresh? I recently went shopping for baby crap and I was loving appalled at the prices. What the gently caress is up with 1400 strollers? namaste friends fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 21:35
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Cultural Imperial posted:http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/h...?service=mobile I dunno -- I think we'll be seeing a lot more communal living in the years to come, given that the prediction is for things to only get worse generation over generation. There are also better ways to do it: the place I'm living in is a duplex house that's been carved up into five apartments -- three basement suites and two upstairs. I'm pretty sure it now legally qualifies as an apartment complex. The owners, a family of three, live in one of the upstairs suites. The other suites have an 80-year old Canadian lady, a Mexican lady in her 40s with her son, my wife and I, and a Chilean family of three in the other upstairs suite. The owners have owned the place for 15+ years, so they bought before the bubble. I wouldn't buy a place to do this now, but for somebody who owns a place already this could make a lot of sense. Also, from that article, a REALTOR(TM) who almost gets it: Ben Smith, VP of sales and marketing at Rennie & Associates posted:“It’s exciting, because for years we’ve been talking about this, and we’re finally seeing it happen,” he says. “There is $88-billion worth of clear-title real estate tied up with boomers. In B.C. and Vancouver especially, we are all equity and no income.” ... and as those boomers crash the market by dumping all that equity, we'll get back to being no equity, no income.
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Feb 18, 2014 21:58
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Cultural Imperial posted:So what's a successful middle class retailer? The Bay? Joe fresh? Apple?
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Feb 18, 2014 22:10
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Twiin posted:Apple? Amazon? The article seems to be ignoring online retailers completely. And Canadian consumer debt is still stupidly high so there's another answer here, I think.
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Feb 18, 2014 22:32
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Cultural Imperial posted:So what's a successful middle class retailer? The Bay? Joe fresh? One of the multitude of shops that isn't a big chain, perhaps? Independent stores do still exist, and they generally offer superior service. I never buy my clothes at the Bay because it's all a bunch of overpriced poo poo and the employees know sweet gently caress-all about any of it. I go to a local, independent menswear store, where the prices are good, and the owner can compensate for the fact that I know nothing about fashion and have no interest in it whatsoever. Consider retail liquor, too (this may not apply if you live in a place where private liquor stores aren't allowed). There's been a significant growth in the part of the market that caters to people interested in (not always very expensive) niche products, and millions of dollars have been made in building good, mass-market liquor stores in good locations as well. Why hit up some Superstore or Safeway liquor store staffed by average retail drones when I can go to a nice liquor store, staffed by people with a good knowledge of their product, who will offer me samples, and be able to recommend new products I might like? What about specialty grocers/butchers? Those, too, are taking off, at least here in Calgary, as people want higher quality foods and a better experience. Again, the prices aren't much higher, and it's such a better product and experience. Let's look at MEC, too, which is possibly my favourite large retailer at the moment and an example of how a chain can be done "right." They inspire brand loyalty by providing good products at reasonable prices, and acting responsibly. I wouldn't purchase anything I could find at MEC anywhere else, because I know it will be a painless experience and I will get what I want. Because it's not managed with a typical corporate mindset, the experience of going there doesn't make me want to tear my hair out by the roots. Those are just the few that spring to mind. Most chains are (rightly) suffering because they offer poo poo products, poo poo service, are managed by orangutans, and don't even offer significantly better prices. I swear, they can't even be bothered to keep half their loving product line in stock at any given time.
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Feb 18, 2014 22:40
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^ All of this is spot on. I'd almost go so far as to argue that we're currently in a golden age in terms of the availability of quality retail stores that offer a well-priced, good product. It's the dinosaurs of the mail-order age that are getting left behind, and rightly so. This is all largely orthogonal to the success of the middle-class financially - since, as we know - Canadians as a group very substantially make up the difference via credit anyway.
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Feb 18, 2014 22:49
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Other than the part about MEC, which hasn't been true for about five years (MEC is a corporate hell which is ruining the gear market), I agree with PT6A. Culturally, we're seeing a rejection of the "supermarket" or "monopoly brand" shopping experience championed by Boomers due to a realization that it created a climate where quality went out the window and prices through the roof. Tim Hortons Vs. an independent coffee/donut shop for example. I loving love my butcher, amazing meat at prices which shock me every time. :3 Rime fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 23:01
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Rime posted:Other than the part about MEC, which hasn't been true for about five years, I agree with PT6A. I only started going there about two years ago, so I really can't compare. If it was even better before, that's amazing. I'm not a really outdoorsy type, but I buy all my travel gear there, and the product selection, prices, and service are better than any of the lovely department stores or luggage stores. What problems have you seen with them?
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Feb 18, 2014 23:05
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Basically they're abusing their co-op status to create a monopoly on the outdoor gear market and drive aggressive expansions. MEC was founded because gear was stupid expensive in Canada, so a bunch of hippies got tired of driving to REI in Seattle and started a co-op to sell gear at wholesale prices and break the market. It was also staffed by super knowledgeable outdoors people who knew the gear, and they also manufactured some really great stuff locally in Vancouver via the purchase of Serratus and a couple other brands. Fast forward to 2014 and the prices are now actually cheaper at places like Valhalla Pure because all the profits are being used to expand into "Lifestyle" gear for yoga moms and city dwellers instead of driving down gear costs with bulk buys. This is also why they are frequently out of stock on the actual outdoor gear and clearancing hundreds of yoga pants. They even rebranded everything last year to appeal harder to this market, further alienating their core members. The bike department opening has caused the independent bike shops to go into hard times, since you can just go to MEC and get someone who barely knows bikes to adjust your chain for $15. All the MEC-branded manufacturing is now done in southeast Asia or Israel with a noticeable decline in quality, and the sales floor is staffed by college students who have never climbed a mountain and make minimum wage, meaning its impossible to get advice on specific gear needs. They couldn't even help someone fit a backpack the last time I was in there. It's the prices which bother me the most, though. MEC is not offering a competitive price to their members, in many cases it's more expensive than the competition (or a border run to REI, a massive irony) and as a result they should have their co-op tax status revoked immediately. They're the Wal Mart of outdoor gear, and the consumer suffers wherever they open up shop. /PhoneFormatting Rime fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 23:22
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Rime posted:Basically they're abusing their co-op status to create a monopoly on the outdoor gear market and drive aggressive expansions. MEC was founded because gear was stupid expensive in Canada, so a bunch of hippies got tired of driving to REI in Seattle and started a co-op to sell gear at wholesale prices and break the market. It was also staffed by super knowledgeable outdoors people who knew the gear, and they also manufactured some really great stuff locally in Vancouver via the purchase of Serratus and a couple other brands. The MEC in Winnipeg has been variable in service lately, but I know that it's mandatory to have considerable outdoor experience to be hired. That said, not everyone can be an expert on everything. As far as middle-class retailers, I'd say Costco is a defining one: mandatory annual membership fee, bulk purchases that lower costs, and it's still possible to be a cashier making a firmly middle-class wage.
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Feb 18, 2014 23:42
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Wow that's lovely, I guess even places with good intention are invariably corrupted when they try to exist within a capitalist system. I did some work for them recently changing their logo and I thought it was dumb but the staff were all "no this is good we want to appeal to normal consumers not just outdoors people!". "Outdoors people" was said with disdain. Also made is Israel? Some slave factory on occupied land? BLOOD BACKPACKS ? Conflict Crampons? \/ I'd love to support costco more, if they only had one remotely near me. I wish we could get an urban costco, right now it's not worth a 30 min drive. We're getting our 2nd costco soon but once again it's wayyyy out in the burbs, heck it's past the burbs it's basically in the country. The grocery game in Victoria is awful, it's quickly turning into an over-priced low-quality monopoly. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 23:44
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Geoid posted:As far as middle-class retailers, I'd say Costco is a defining one: mandatory annual membership fee, bulk purchases that lower costs, and it's still possible to be a cashier making a firmly middle-class wage. Costco is a great example. And they are doing stupidly well - customers and employees alike tend to really like the company, and they are very successful financially.
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Feb 18, 2014 23:46
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Baronjutter posted:invariably corrupted when they try to exist within a capitalist system. Couldn't let this go without comment: this statement is basically the pure, unadulterated essence of D&D 
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Feb 18, 2014 23:53
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http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Vancouver+firm+will+build+developing+world+home+each+home+sold+here/9520732/story.htmlquote:With its official launch Tuesday, Vancouver-based World Housing hopes to make that a reality by partnering with real estate developers who want to donate a new home in the developing world for each unit sold here in the New World. It's like Toms Shoes, but way worse!
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Feb 18, 2014 23:53
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Rime posted:I find rural BC properties to be a good barometer overall in the province, and this month saw a massive correction in the market.
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Feb 18, 2014 23:54
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Cultural Imperial posted:So what's a successful middle class retailer? The Bay? Joe fresh? I think the article posted isn't considering some other likely scenarios, such as people are more aware of overseas manufacturing/sweatshops and, not really a parallel, shopping for most goods on Amazon is easier and cheaper. When a Target opened up here, we thought we'd check it out and were amazed at the prices there. I mean, we're mid-to-upper class but don't spend our money on stupid poo poo just to have it. I am not sure how widespread it is, and maybe it's just my own anecdotal perspective, but I've cut way down on what I will buy. My husband and I have both done more DIY stuff (from furniture making to crafting for gift-giving to growing our own veggies in the spring and summer) in the past few years, rather than buying new things. We also stake out used shops for things such as curtains, clothes, books, whatever. It just doesn't make sense to be a huge consumer in today's world where it's smarter to just be more sustainable.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:01
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Baronjutter posted:I did some work for them recently changing their logo and I thought it was dumb but the staff were all "no this is good we want to appeal to normal consumers not just outdoors people!". "Outdoors people" was said with disdain. Ironically the rebranding is probably a boon for the outdoor gear market as a whole in Vancouver, because it drove home what we'd previously been willing to overlook (the creeping increase in prices, inability to order non-stock brands/tems, etc) and many of us have taken our business to the independents like Valhalla Pure.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:04
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As an avid roadie and downhiller, I love mec for providing high quality, cheap and timely service. I've been ripped off so many loving times by Dunbar, obsessions and North shore bikeshop I don't feel one ounce of pity for the so called struggling local bike shop. On the other hand props to suspensionwerx for their high quality albeit over priced service. I can get my loving car serviced cheaper than it costs to rebuild a fox40.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:20
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Mec makes and sells the cheapest 3 layer goretex jacket on the market.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:21
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Cultural Imperial posted:Mec makes and sells the cheapest 3 layer goretex jacket on the market. It's also an absurdly heavy POS with shoddy construction. Like I said, their monopoly has turned them into the Wal Mart of outdoor gear.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:23
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Valhalla Pure is pretty cool, too, and I grew up across the lake from Valhalla Provincial Park in BC, so I'd give them my business first. Except they don't have a location in Calgary, so I'm probably not going to bother driving out to Canmore just to shop there. I also couldn't find an equivalent on their website to the perfect travel pack I picked up at MEC the first time I went there. It's perfectly sized to fit an overhead bin, and doesn't have any wheels or handles to take up valuable space. Luckily, it appears to be well made, because when it gives up the ghost I'll be very sad.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:32
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Rime posted:It's also an absurdly heavy POS with shoddy construction. Like I said, their monopoly has turned them into the Wal Mart of outdoor gear. I think this is exactly the point of that globe article. If you're inferring the mec jacket is going to fall apart after three uses and that you're going to collapse of exhaustion from wearing such a heavy jacket, then I tend to think you're scruitinizing your gear a little too hard. On the other hand if you think buying a 700 dollar arcteryx from Valhalla offers better value, well then, you're exactly the aspirational shopper being discussed.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:35
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There's a middle ground with everything, which I think is the point the article missed by a mile. Millennials are, I hope, savvy enough that they won't be buying the overpriced MEC branded crap because it is the convenient solution, nor the $700 Arc'Teryx because bling-bling "it's da best 'cause it's expensive!". Instead, they'll seek out the product that best suits their needs to razor precision without breaking the stringent budgets they're forced to live with. That's why communal living is on the rise and brand loyalty is going the way of the dodo. PT6A posted:Valhalla Pure is pretty cool, too, and I grew up across the lake from Valhalla Provincial Park in BC, so I'd give them my business first. Except they don't have a location in Calgary, so I'm probably not going to bother driving out to Canmore just to shop there. That's reasonable, I'm mostly speaking from the Vancouver perspective where Broadway used to have a ton of gear shops which MEC drove out of business before they ramped up the prices. They're the only store in the city which sells climbing gear now as a result, meaning I either have to suck up their prices or smuggle poo poo across the border from REI. Rime fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 00:42
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I am scared to go into Valhalla Pure because with a name like that it has to be a front for the BC Nazi Party.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:42
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Clipperton posted:I am scared to go into Valhalla Pure because with a name like that it has to be a front for the BC Nazi Party. Not even joking here, google Taiga works and anti semitism.
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Feb 19, 2014 00:44
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Cultural Imperial posted:http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/h...?service=mobile My god, that article and the framing are bizarre. If you read it critically, it's not about "buying poo poo they can't afford". It's about much worse off young people are than their parents. -They live in condos instead of houses because they can't afford houses -They don't have cars because they can't afford them -They have debt because they're poor and have student loans -They don't save because you can't save when you're loving broke Every one of these things can be explained by People are not making as much money as they were and essentials like housing are really loving expensive now. Yet somehow the conclusion is "oh those whacky millenials! they just love moving around and going from job to job and taking the bus because they're free spirits!" What the gently caress?
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Feb 19, 2014 01:12
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RBC posted:My god, that article and the framing are bizarre. I don't know how you can even take it as "Whacky Millenials" when the 3rd line is quote:“They will be the first generation that is not going to be better off than their parents were,” says Melanie Reuter, director of research for the Real Estate Investment Network. Kind of sets the tone as here how they are coping with it.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:11
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Whiteycar posted:I don't know how you can even take it as "Whacky Millenials" when the 3rd line is That's a quote and the next sentence is a snide one line "Her interpretation." qualifier from the writer. Perhaps you are one of those people that considers themselves fortunate not to be tied down by things like "job security" and "benefits".
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Feb 19, 2014 02:21
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Dreylad posted:Amazon? Online retail in Canada is a joke. It shouldn't be, but it is.
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Feb 19, 2014 04:13
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Rime posted:One massive development in particular, 350 acres on Bowen Island, had the developer throw in the towel and put it on the market. Originally at $5.9M, dropped to $4.8M now. Seems small, but that's a fuckoff huge drop in price for what's essentially a Vancouver suburb. I... think I know this property. I don't actually think it's a development -- in fact, it's not even subdivided into subdivision sized lots (yet). He may have been sitting on it hoping to one day, but there's no development on the land, and there are no permits. It's pretty pristine...
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Feb 19, 2014 04:19
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Pixelboy posted:I... think I know this property. I don't actually think it's a development -- in fact, it's not even subdivided into subdivision sized lots (yet). He may have been sitting on it hoping to one day, but there's no development on the land, and there are no permits. It's pretty pristine... http://www.landquest.com/detailmain.aspx?propid=13269
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Feb 19, 2014 04:21
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Baronjutter posted:Wow that's lovely, I guess even places with good intention are invariably corrupted when they try to exist within a capitalist system. Nice, that's the Costco nearest to my place, smaller than the other stores they have, but usually less crowded too.
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Feb 19, 2014 04:59
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RBC posted:My god, that article and the framing are bizarre. Wait until they try to sell us their houses, and discover that they aren't worth nearly as much as they've been led to believe.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:13
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tagesschau posted:Wait until they try to sell us their houses, and discover that they aren't worth nearly as much as they've been led to believe. Plus getting a love letter from the bank demanding the equity balance for the HELOC. etalian fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 05:30
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Cultural Imperial posted:I think this is exactly the point of that globe article. If you're inferring the mec jacket is going to fall apart after three uses and that you're going to collapse of exhaustion from wearing such a heavy jacket, then I tend to think you're scruitinizing your gear a little too hard. On the other hand if you think buying a 700 dollar arcteryx from Valhalla offers better value, well then, you're exactly the aspirational shopper being discussed. I don't know, it seems pretty reasonable to not want a Goretex shell that's heavy, cheap, and probably doesn't breathe well if those first two things are true. Arcteryx is definitely overpriced for what you get, granted.
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Feb 19, 2014 05:55
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Three posts later... 24% of Canadians see their homes as main source of retirement income The Globe & Mail posted:“We were really quite surprised to see such a high percentage of Canadians thinking of using their homes as a primary income source of retirement and another 17 per cent saying they weren’t quite sure,” Kevin Dougherty, president of Sun Life Financial Canada, said in an interview.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:05
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Cultural Imperial posted:So what's a successful middle class retailer? The Bay? Joe fresh? The baby equipment racket is right up there with real estate and the wedding mill when it comes to preying on emotion and turning it into debt slavery. Saltin fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 16:54
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tagesschau posted:Three posts later... Jesus christ don't they think they need to sell first No don't answer that
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Feb 19, 2014 17:23
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