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Well what does the constitution say about the capital, if anything? I thought that Nanjing was the official capital, with Taipei as a provisional one.
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Feb 18, 2014 09:43
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I don't think it says anything, which is why people are trying to move it into their constituencies and get those civil servants to spend their guaranteed lifetime salary on some of our local crap. I don't think the mainstream DPP is actually serious about moving it but some of the more extreme legislators bring it up from time to time like it's a thing that could actually happen. NINJA EDIT: You know what we haven't had for a while? A good brawl in parliament. I mean sure we had the opposition forming human barricades around the podium last year, but I'm talking a good old-school punching and biting throw-down. I want to see one of those again. Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 09:54
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Moon Slayer posted:NINJA EDIT: You know what we haven't had for a while? A good brawl in parliament. I mean sure we had the opposition forming human barricades around the podium last year, but I'm talking a good old-school punching and biting throw-down. I want to see one of those again.
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Feb 18, 2014 10:00
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Yeah, the location of the capital is not specified in the constitution. I don't know why it would be; most constitutions don't specify a capital I think...
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Feb 18, 2014 10:37
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hitension posted:Well, there was that time the capital was apparently Nanjing, but that got redacted real fast  Moving the official capital might be a wise decision. The chairs need new upholstery and it looks like it hasn't been renovated since the 40's. I think the real question is will the big fancy rocks and jerked meat be cheaper and higher quality than what is currently offered at the Presidential Palace?
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Feb 18, 2014 13:11
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It wouldn't be without precedent, didn't Brazil move their capital so it could be in the exact geographic centre of the country. I forget why Australia put theirs not in Sydney, but I seem to remember it was some equally asinine reason, but I'm not 100%. I don't think Taiwan could actually do it without looking horribly corrupt and squanderous (possibly not a word). The buildings and infrastructure surrounding all conform to a good set up, eg. the foreign office and home office are within spitting distance of the President. There's more to it than just those, but yeah, replicating that in bumfuck wherever would simply look hella retarded, and that costs more in reputation than the annual(hilarious) punch up in parliament.
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Feb 18, 2014 14:11
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My home state of South Carolina moved the state capital from Charleston to Columbia only because Columbia was central and Charleston was coastal. Columbia is a festering shithole, and probably has been since it was founded. Meanwhile, Charleston is probably the only livable place in the state. I forget if this was before or after Carolina split into North and South Carolina, but that's not terribly relevant. There is American precedent, too.
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Feb 18, 2014 15:21
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url posted:It wouldn't be without precedent, didn't Brazil move their capital so it could be in the exact geographic centre of the country. I forget why Australia put theirs not in Sydney, but I seem to remember it was some equally asinine reason, but I'm not 100%. Canberra was chosen as the capital because it was a geographic compromise between Sydney and Melbourne to prevent favoritism. It was set up in the same manner as Washington, D.C. was, which was a compromise to prevent Northern and Southern favoritism. Brasilia was supposed to have been built in the 1800's to prevent regional favoritism but building never began until the late 1950's. Taiwan is so small and transportation from one end of the island to another is so easy and readily available that such talk is asinine. It really doesn't make any sense to move the capital other than a political statement to separate the country from its past. For instance Ankara was chosen to be the capital of Turkey because it wasn't associated with Turkey's Ottoman past. I could only see it being done if the president at that time wanted to do something stupid like proclaim Taiwanese independence. EDIT: They'd have to change all the Olympic stuff as well since they couldn't be Chinese Taipei.
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Feb 18, 2014 15:34
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:They'd have to change all the Olympic stuff as well since they couldn't be Chinese Taipei. Chinese Kaohsiung doesn't have quite the same ring.
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Feb 18, 2014 15:43
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url posted:I forget why Australia put theirs not in Sydney, but I seem to remember it was some equally asinine reason, but I'm not 100%. quote:I don't think Taiwan could actually do it without looking horribly corrupt and squanderous (possibly not a word). The buildings and infrastructure surrounding all conform to a good set up, eg. the foreign office and home office are within spitting distance of the President. e: RocknRollaAyatollah posted:EDIT: They'd have to change all the Olympic stuff as well since they couldn't be Chinese Taipei.
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Feb 18, 2014 15:46
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TetsuoTW posted:You say that like Taiwan has any say in the matter. They were given a choice between Taiwan and Chinese Taipei. It could have been worse, they could have been Chinese Taibei. Chinese Taipei gets to have the 12 pointed sun on their flag though which is a banned symbol in the PRC. That's actually enough to drive a good deal of PRC nationalists into hysterics.
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Feb 18, 2014 16:21
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Pandemonium posted:that's not terribly relevant. mlyp 
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Feb 18, 2014 16:40
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TetsuoTW posted:That's mostly because everything in Taiwanese politics is horribly corrupt ...... I 100% agree that there is some bent-as-a-9-bob note poo poo here, but, it absolutely without-question pales to the big leagues. The poo poo that I see going on here is pretty base level stuff. Disclaimer, I don't know this poo poo as well as you do. But, ballot stuffing, last minute gerrymandering, flight delays and vote buying...all very tame. Really-really tame in the grand scheme of things. The financial jiggery-pokery that goes on here is only a shade more advanced...., again, as far as I can tell, ymmv, 2c disclaimer, etc. etc. To me me it looks like amateur hour trying to play pro. TetsuoTW posted:You say that like Taiwan has any say in the matter. As much as i love to discuss this stuff, and try to avoid conflating issues, i agree. My concern is that I don't think most of Taiwan's stance holds water; and, there are more serious regional issues at stake. This penny pinching amateur hour state of affairs 'will' be brought to heel. (to do the conflation thing) I'd say 8-10 years. When the big players say 'this issue gets resolved within a generation', I'd wager you wanna get your house in order and get all the begging done within the deadline. I'd look to South Africa and obviously HK for the precedent. Rapid consolidation of assets, liquid wealth and some migration. Them are the indicators that count. Having offices formally recognize each other, short months after having been given permission to launder 'alot' of jelly beans, seems like the path is set and everyone is on board.(yay for mixing metaphors) Tldr, I agree, I don't think Taiwan has any say, and moving capital at this stage of affairs is so desperately naiive I'm stunned at myself for even commenting on it.
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Feb 18, 2014 17:12
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^I totally agree. Taiwanese people who've never been to China complain about the corruption/societal problems and it's like bitch pleaseRocknRollaAyatollah posted:They were given a choice between Taiwan and Chinese Taipei. It could have been worse, they could have been Chinese Taibei. Wait, I don't think they were given a "choice" to be Taiwan. That's kinda the whole point. There was a point in the 1970s where the UN said the ROC could stay in the United Nations if they went under the name Taiwan and CKS turned it down though. Probably one of the most  moments in history I can think of.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:26
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:They were given a choice between Taiwan and Chinese Taipei. It could have been worse, they could have been Chinese Taibei. Is that true? I remember seeing it all over Sun Yat-Sen's mausoleum near Nanjing. Do they just ignore it there since Sun Yat-Sen is like the only guy everyone can agree on liking?
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Feb 19, 2014 03:27
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It can't actually be banned to the point where it has been totally expunged, because I remember seeing photographs of it hanging in some museum in China on Wikipedia before. fake edit: here, "Museum of the War of Chinese People's Resistance Against Japanese Aggression" (it just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?) in Beijing.
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Feb 19, 2014 03:39
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It's definitely not banned, considering the Revolutionary Committee of the Kuomintang is the second largest party in the CPPCC with like a third of the seats. edit: http://www.minge.gov.cn/ peep that thoroughly not banned flag and very unfortunate piyin name edit2: hahaha they have a hit counter on the bottom of the page. What is this, a 1997 Geocities site? Deep State of Mind fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 03:40
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I was told by a number of Chinese people that it's a symbol that will get you in trouble, in the same vein as other separatist or anti-government symbols. It's allowed in a historical context and when they depict the Guomindang as brutal tyrants in dramas. A coworker of mine for instance was talked to about wearing a Guomindang pin with the same tone and concern that you'd have for someone wearing a Nazi pin in the West. We teach kids from Taiwan too and they all thought it was awesome. I've been told as well that flying the flag can land you in jail or get you a visit from the police as well. The Revolutionary Committee of the Guomindang doesn't actively use those symbols as well to my knowledge, they're not on their website, and most Chinese people have never even heard of them either. Most Chinese people, even educated and knowledgeable people, don't seem to know about the existence of the 8 minor political parties. The ROC was given the choice of "Chinese Taipei" or "Taiwan" by the IOC. The ROC took Chinese Taipei because it implied that they were still a part of China while Taiwan was ambiguous. EDIT: I'm not seeing a flag and I've been straight up told by Chinese employers that GMD stuff was unacceptable. DOUBLE EDIT: It's also unacceptable in the context of the Chinese Taipei flag because it implies ROC control over the island of Taiwan. The PRC still proclaims that they are an illegitimate government and does not recognize their control of Taiwan. It's one of the reasons why Taiwanese fans had to wave similar looking flags during the 2008 Olympics. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 03:56
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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Taiwan's even close to as bad as China in terms of corruption, but it's still definitely corrupt. Beyond the petty poo poo like vote buying, decisions are clearly frequently made with the interests of guanxi and rich-rear end contributors first, middle, and last. It's corrupt in the same way US politics is corrupt, Taiwan just doesn't pretend there's anything wrong with it. China's just rotten right through at all levels. At least some Taiwanese politicians seem like they give a poo poo about Taiwanese people.RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The ROC was given the choice of "Chinese Taipei" or "Taiwan" by the IOC. The ROC took Chinese Taipei because it implied that they were still a part of China while Taiwan was ambiguous.
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Feb 19, 2014 04:33
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TetsuoTW posted:Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Taiwan's even close to as bad as China in terms of corruption, but it's still definitely corrupt. Beyond the petty poo poo like vote buying, decisions are clearly frequently made with the interests of guanxi and rich-rear end contributors first, middle, and last. It's corrupt in the same way US politics is corrupt, Taiwan just doesn't pretend there's anything wrong with it. China's just rotten right through at all levels. At least some Taiwanese politicians seem like they give a poo poo about Taiwanese people. The Taiwan Megathread 2.0: China would poo poo the bed loudly and profusely
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Feb 19, 2014 04:47
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As far as I know the ROC flag in mainland China can only be displayed under a historical context, "this was once the flag of our country, now it's not". I don't think you're allowed to just whip out an ROC flag or wear it on a shirt or something. Likewise they will refer to 民國時期 or the Republican Era as the whole 1912-1949 historical time period, whereas in Taiwan they think 民國時期 is still going on. The CCP might completely erase Zhao Ziyang and the Tiananmen 6/4 incident, but they haven't reached the point of absurdity where they are willing to erase several decades of Chinese history, especially when they can strawman it as "the corrupt and horrible past". (Can someone name a point in Chinese history that was NOT corrupt and horrible?) I do think it's absurd when Taiwan still uses 民國 as a time marker for things though. Just so un-international and irrelevant... Plus it makes everyone look 11 years older. RocknRollaAyatollah posted:It's one of the reasons why Taiwanese fans had to wave similar looking flags during the 2008 Olympics. Oh man, this. http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/2008/new/aug/17/today-olympic4.htm Taiwanese-American sports fans waving the flag of Myanmar because it looks kinda like the ROC flag.  Grandpa: I never thought that I'd still be able to see the Republic of China flag waving proudly over Myanmar~ busts out National Flag Anthem Kid: Grandpa, your glasses fell off... Flag: Hey, it's all your fault I had to change!* *Myanmar/Burma has been using a different flag since like 2010. hitension fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 05:19
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The Revolutionary Committee of the Guomindang doesn't actively use those symbols as well to my knowledge, they're not on their website, and most Chinese people have never even heard of them either. Most Chinese people, even educated and knowledgeable people, don't seem to know about the existence of the 8 minor political parties. The ROC symbols are not actively used but I disagree on the point that other political parties in China are unknown. Membership to a political party was a lot more relevant before the 80's when people were more reliant on the state. A lot of candidates for the CCP were not eligible because of their family history or other nonsense garbage. And people were faced with the choice of being a big fish in a small pond (joining a minor token party) or small fish big pond. url posted:I'd look to South Africa and obviously HK for the precedent. Rapid consolidation of assets, liquid wealth and some migration. Them are the indicators that count. China is using Hong Kong as a test bed and proof of "one country two systems". Most Hongers and Taiwanese see the actual implementation as really big joke  I'm one of those naive jerks on the other side of the straits who wish to see unification, China not being such a loving joke country, and a highspeed train/bridge from Fuzhou to Taipei. But then again, Zhuyin looks like Klingon to me and confuses me because I'm a moron 
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Feb 19, 2014 07:07
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You don't really need to know zhuyin for any practical reason though. If you are already familiar with Simplified, Traditional shouldn't be too terrible to learn to just read.
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Feb 19, 2014 07:14
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caberham posted:I'm one of those naive jerks on the other side of the straits who wish to see unification, China not being such a loving joke country, and a highspeed train/bridge from Fuzhou to Taipei. I am even more naive and pro-unification as I support the establishment of a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.  The capital should be placed somewhere with great historical importance e.g. the Diaoyutais.
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Feb 19, 2014 07:27
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TetsuoTW posted:I thought the textbook standard for Taiwan was Practical Audio-Visual Chinese? PCR is the hot mainland garbage I learned from back in NZ. PAVC is actually pretty good as CFL materials go. Good to know, since I've just blown 22,000NTD on a university course using it...
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Feb 19, 2014 08:12
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caberham posted:I'm one of those naive jerks on the other side of the straits who wish to see unification, China not being such a loving joke country, and a highspeed train/bridge from Fuzhou to Taipei. Do you mean Xiamen? Fuzhou would be even further and less relevant I did a TinEye and didn't find anything; did you come up with this yourself? If so, that's pretty creative on the spot
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Feb 19, 2014 09:46
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House Louse posted:Good to know, since I've just blown 22,000NTD on a university course using it... In fairness, by all accounts the New PCR is a lot better.
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Feb 19, 2014 10:20
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caberham posted:China is using Hong Kong as a test bed and proof of "one country two systems". Most Hongers and Taiwanese see the actual implementation as really big joke I'm the same, I'd like to see full integration, and yeah - a train would be an awesome thing I'm only beginning to see how to use zhuyin after being here two years. (I stopped taking classes when I stopped getting free lessons at work, I only recently started classes again. kenner116 posted:I am even more naive and pro-unification as I support the establishment of a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. Genius!
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Feb 19, 2014 10:20
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kenner116 posted:I am even more naive and pro-unification as I support the establishment of a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.
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Feb 19, 2014 10:40
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hitension posted:I did a TinEye and didn't find anything; did you come up with this yourself? If so, that's pretty creative on the spot url posted:Genius! I am a creative genius (by google image searching for greater east asia co-prosperity sphere flag). House Louse posted:Good to know, since I've just blown 22,000NTD on a university course using it... I've used PAVC books 2 and 3 and have no complaints, really, despite the wacky adventures of Lin Jianguo and Gao Weili. Finals tomorrow, so will be listening to Jianguo/Weili dialogues all evening.
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Feb 19, 2014 11:11
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Some Koreans would commit actual murder over that flag.
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Feb 19, 2014 12:00
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Eifert Posting posted:Some Koreans would commit actual murder over that flag.
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Feb 19, 2014 12:19
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They'll definitely kill some birds indigenous to Korea while sorting that out though.
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Feb 19, 2014 12:30
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I sometimes wonder if PAVC is actually Taiwan-based given how many 鐘頭s and 要是s and endless 兒s it throws around, honestly.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:14
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kenner116 posted:I am a creative genius (by google image searching for greater east asia co-prosperity sphere flag). quadrophrenic posted:I sometimes wonder if PAVC is actually Taiwan-based given how many 鐘頭s and 要是s and endless 兒s it throws around, honestly. Those words are not particularly used in Taiwan 
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Feb 20, 2014 04:30
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Maybe he meant that because it throws them around so much, it's Taiwan trying to sound like the mainland without actually understanding the nuances of their usages.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:56
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hitension posted:Those words are not particularly used in Taiwan
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Feb 20, 2014 07:37
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Who the hell says 钟头 anywhere. I've never heard it outside of my Chinese 101 class and I'm at year 4 over here. It's just like 您贵姓 which I only use as a comedy greeting.
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Feb 20, 2014 09:05
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Magna Kaser posted:Who the hell says 钟头 anywhere. I've never heard it outside of my Chinese 101 class and I'm at year 4 over here. It's just like 您贵姓 which I only use as a comedy greeting. 鐘頭 is just old timey and more colloquial. People in Hong Kong, South East Asian Chinese and southern China use it  您貴姓 is just being polite. There's nothing wrong with it. You just lack manners 
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Feb 20, 2014 09:37
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I used 貴姓 a lot when I was in the army manning the duty room. 
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