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Obdicut posted:Not in the least bit what I said. I said that you should do something to reform the union. You said you're not going to because you're lazy. Man... maybe you're at a point where you believe your own edits, but you and I both know that you straight up told me if I wasn't fighting to become president of CCPOA I was worthless. I am throwing a pity party, but it isn't for me. Cold and Ugly fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 14:31
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Cold and Ugly posted:Man... maybe you're at a point where you believe your own edits, but you and I both know that you straight up told me if I wasn't fighting to become president of CCPOA I was worthless. No, I didn't. Prove me wrong by quoting the post where I 'straight up' told you that if you weren't fighting to become president you were worthless. You can't, because I didn't say that. Edit: Oh, wait, you're accusing me of having said that but edited it out? Wow. That's some balls. Reedit: Cold and Ugly posted:Yeah, man. I admit that I ignored those posts because I really have no idea. I realize that the potential exists for me to make a positive impact on California's prison system but the ugly truth is that i'm too lazy and timid to be really forceful about my good ideas. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 14:35
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Obdicut posted:No, I didn't. Prove me wrong by quoting the post where I 'straight up' told you that if you weren't fighting to become president you were worthless. 'eh... I just ran through it all again and it may not have been you, but someone definitely told me that if I wasn't reaching for the top, if my idealism wasn't the main force in my life overriding obligation and self preservation, then I was garbage. I assumed it was you because you were the one who reacted to my non specific post about that guy who said some dumb poo poo.
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Sep 4, 2013 14:48
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anglachel posted:It wouldn't. If anything it would make things worse, because then the Governor would just appoint a poo poo ton of tough on crime judges who aren't responsive to the needs of their community at all. I have seen alot of strong reform from some judges. Things like Drug Courts, Mental Health Courts, the importance of First Offender (which means if you finish your probation successfully the record will reflect that you were tried Not Guilty), all need Judges to champion them. Appointment judges will just be lackeys of whoever won the gerrymandered State Elections, and worse you can't get rid of them and they aren't accountable to anyone. Local elections that pick judges tend to be far more democratic (in theory anyway), as at least the Judge your voting for could theoretically be the judge where you live. For some perspective on this -- I work in a state where we have appointed judges (appointed by the state legislature). Without going into specifics, I've heard plenty of stories from appointed judges about how any time they give a light sentence and something bad happens -- every time they give someone a short sentence and they reoffend -- they'll get twelve kinds of hell from the local papers and they'll have to hear about it endlessly from the legislators next time they're up for re-appointment. I've also seen objectively bad judges continue to be reappointed to more and more elite posts due to political connections. Don't get me wrong, appointment of judges is still a preferable system and I'm glad we have it, but it's not a panacea. Regardless of how the judge attains office the main thing they're worrying about during sentencing is "if this guy reoffends, what will it do to my career?" While I'm here, slightly different topic, but had I posted this around here or not? http://www.mentalhealth4inmates.org/ Calenth fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 14:52
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Cold and Ugly posted:'eh... I just ran through it all again and it may not have been you, but someone definitely told me that if I wasn't reaching for the top, if my idealism wasn't the main force in my life overriding obligation and self preservation, then I was garbage. I assumed it was you because you were the one who reacted to my non specific post about that guy who said some dumb poo poo. Well, I definitely believe that you're lazy. I don't really have to say anything. You're the one who's said you're too lazy and timid. I'm saying that you shouldn't be so lazy and timid. I know it's likely you're just going to continue to shirk all responsibility and continue being lazy and timid, but again, that is the reason you're getting criticized by me, not for being a CO, but for being too lazy and timid to try to change the union even though it's an ethical obligation for you to do so, even if it's just talking to others.
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Sep 4, 2013 14:55
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Obdicut posted:Well, I definitely believe that you're lazy. Dear Lord, please forgive me for being so indifferent to these ineffectual barbs from my ridiculous enemies. Please forgive these men who in their desperation punch into the darkness after I straight up murked their leader. Please Lord, make them understand that i'm 30 years old and in the course of my duties have faced down murderers and rapists and thieves and when I say I'm timid I mean not what they think I mean. But most of all Lord please make them understand that it takes more than idealism and sass to climb to the top of the most powerful union in the best state in the country.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:09
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Cold and Ugly posted:Dear Lord, please forgive me for being so indifferent to these ineffectual barbs from my ridiculous enemies. Please forgive these men who in their desperation punch into the darkness after I straight up murked their leader. Please Lord, make them understand that i'm 30 years old and in the course of my duties have faced down murderers and rapists and thieves and when I say I'm timid I mean not what they think I mean. But most of all Lord please make them understand that it takes more than idealism and sass to climb to the top of the most powerful union in the best state in the country. I don't want you to climb to the top, remember? That was the other guy, if they even existed. Why do you keep pretending that I'm saying that? It's kinda weird. I understand what you mean by too timid, and that it's nothing to do with physical bravery. I'm also experienced with union organizing and development, and probably know more about what's required to change a union than someone who's never tried. One thing that is absolutely necessary to change a union is for the individual members of union to work for change, even if it's just talking to others in the union about what they disagree with in what the union is doing. Which is what I've asked you to do, and you've said you're too lazy and timid to do. I didn't call you lazy and timid: you called yourself that.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:17
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Obdicut posted:I don't want you to climb to the top, remember? That was the other guy, if they even existed. Why do you keep pretending that I'm saying that? It's kinda weird. Cool, man. I like this calm tone. I swear to christ someone told me that if I wasn't spending my life trying to be president of CCPOA that I sucked, but you know, I've been on the defensive ever since I joined this conversation. You did call me lazy, but that's probably fair, I just don't know what can be expected of a good drunk like me but to be a decent person, yeah?
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Sep 4, 2013 15:21
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Cold and Ugly posted:Cool, man. I like this calm tone. I swear to christ someone told me that if I wasn't spending my life trying to be president of CCPOA that I sucked, but you know, I've been on the defensive ever since I joined this conversation. You did call me lazy, but that's probably fair, I just don't know what can be expected of a good drunk like me but to be a decent person, yeah? Why do you feel this thread should be about you? If you feel you're being trolled, stop responding.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:25
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Cold and Ugly posted:Cool, man. I like this calm tone. I swear to christ someone told me that if I wasn't spending my life trying to be president of CCPOA that I sucked, but you know, I've been on the defensive ever since I joined this conversation. You did call me lazy, but that's probably fair, I just don't know what can be expected of a good drunk like me but to be a decent person, yeah? Again: You called yourself lazy. I just repeated it. Now you're calling yourself a drunk. This is getting pretty E/N. I don't think anyone did say that if you didn't try to become president of CCPOA that you sucked. I'm saying, and still say, that it's lousy of you to receive benefits from the union, know the problems it has, and not do anything to try to change it. I think that's part of being a decent person. It doesn't mean that you don't do your job ethically. Again, this is getting pretty E/N, and you're kind of all over the place with the misplaced accusations and defensiveness and self-pity. Maybe this isn't the best place to talk about your own personal emotions about being a CO. You could start an A/T thread or an E/N thread if you wanted.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:25
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Obdicut posted:Again: You called yourself lazy. I just repeated it. Now you're calling yourself a drunk. This is getting pretty E/N. I don't think anyone did say that if you didn't try to become president of CCPOA that you sucked. I'm saying, and still say, that it's lousy of you to receive benefits from the union, know the problems it has, and not do anything to try to change it. I think that's part of being a decent person. It doesn't mean that you don't do your job ethically. Or... This is all playing into my hand, which is that our friends and neighbors employed by the CDC don't put on their little green jumpsuits and turn into the Viet Cong. I mean, seriously, man. The first person I came up against in this thread was claiming that part of the standard suicide watch was shaking dudes awake every fifteen minutes. How can you have a conversation if you are convinced that people are capable of such evil? Have you ever met a person who might have thought that sleep deprivation was the cure for suicidal ideation?
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Sep 4, 2013 15:35
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Cold and Ugly posted:Or... This is all playing into my hand, which is that our friends and neighbors employed by the CDC don't put on their little green jumpsuits and turn into the Viet Cong. I mean, seriously, man. The first person I came up against in this thread was claiming that part of the standard suicide watch was shaking dudes awake every fifteen minutes. How can you have a conversation if you are convinced that people are capable of such evil? Have you ever met a person who might have thought that sleep deprivation was the cure for suicidal ideation? People are capable of such evil, though. Prison abuses as bad as that, and worse, have occurred in the US. They didn't occur under your watch, or in prisons you worked in, probably, but they have occurred. Denying the capacity for evil is just bizarre. I'm going to stop responding to you now because this is clearly just so emotionally charged for you, and you keep saying crazy poo poo like thinking I'm saying you turn into the Viet Cong. And you could choose to talk to the people who aren't saying the extreme stuff like the 15-minute shake, but instead you just pretend I am that guy. I also have no clue what you mean by 'playing into [your] hand'.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:42
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Obdicut posted:People are capable of such evil, though. Prison abuses as bad as that, and worse, have occurred in the US. They didn't occur under your watch, or in prisons you worked in, probably, but they have occurred. Denying the capacity for evil is just bizarre. My hand, meaning, and this is really convenient, the more I type and the more I make you laugh or argue with my bullshit, the more you'll be less apt to dive down the murder hole with Zeitgueist and stop blanket posting about how all CO's are evil but recognize me as a person and appreciate my evil personally.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:54
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Sorry, meant to edit.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:54
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Cold and Ugly posted:Cool, man. I like this calm tone. I swear to christ someone told me that if I wasn't spending my life trying to be president of CCPOA that I sucked, but you know, I've been on the defensive ever since I joined this conversation. You did call me lazy, but that's probably fair, I just don't know what can be expected of a good drunk like me but to be a decent person, yeah? Yes, someone probably did. They probably were more interested in holding you responsible for all the prison issues you're aware of and complicit in that they were about treating you fairly. That shouldn't be an excuse to have a pity party and make the thread about your weird self-esteem issues, though! Cold and Ugly posted:Or... This is all playing into my hand, which is that our friends and neighbors employed by the CDC don't put on their little green jumpsuits and turn into the Viet Cong. I mean, seriously, man. The first person I came up against in this thread was claiming that part of the standard suicide watch was shaking dudes awake every fifteen minutes. How can you have a conversation if you are convinced that people are capable of such evil? Have you ever met a person who might have thought that sleep deprivation was the cure for suicidal ideation? You seem to think that people are capable of such evil too, given that you associate it with the Viet Cong.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:00
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Main Paineframe posted:Yes, someone probably did. They probably were more interested in holding you responsible for all the prison issues you're aware of and complicit in that they were about treating you fairly. That shouldn't be an excuse to have a pity party and make the thread about your weird self-esteem issues, though! Of course people are capable of evil. Otherwise my joke about the Viet Cong would be meaningless. I'm just saying that CO's are awesome and all this poo poo you guys have been talking is dumb.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:06
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The Viet Cong were evil?
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Sep 4, 2013 16:07
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VideoTapir posted:The Viet Cong were evil? LOL. In the movie sense. All I remember about Vietnam was that they made Christopher Walken play Russian roulette. But that's what i'm saying. Prison is not run by Satan, and the most prolific among you, Zeitgueist, outed himself as a dipshit with a statement that was either threatening me or betraying a cartoonish notion of how people on the edge of law get along. I don't know what the cure is but to just stop being such a ridiculous son of a bitch.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:14
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Cold and Ugly posted:LOL. In the movie sense. All I remember about Vietnam was that they made Christopher Walken play Russian roulette. But that's what i'm saying. Prison is not run by Satan, and the most prolific among you, Zeitgueist, outed himself as a dipshit with a statement that was either threatening me or betraying a cartoonish notion of how people on the edge of law get along. I don't know what the cure is but to just stop being such a ridiculous son of a bitch. You're the one being ridiculous. Prison isn't "run by satan" but it is most definitely an industry that seeks to profit from suffering, and does. In turn, it purposefully, intentionally creates more sufferinso it can profit off of it even more. These are not opinions, they are plain facts that cannot be disputed, and you have to really shove your head deep in the sand not to see that. Fixating on what you perceive to be hyperbolic statements doesn't disprove the staggering mountain of links, studies, documentaries and articles in the op of this thread that paint a horrifying picture of the us prison system. The fact is that you and other co's are cogs in a machine that causes suffering on a scale that is difficult to even comprehend, and for that reason I understand why you are not comprehending it. Nobody wants to see themselves as being part of such a terrible thing. But you are a part of it, and it is a terrible thing. I'm sure that on a basic level, you are a good person, and so when people say these things you know they cannot be true; but that is the real horror of systems like these, that they make it not only easy but necessary for good people to not understand the kind of cruelty with which they are complicit. And by the way, my avatar is a good example of why, when you feel people are being unfair or trolling you, you should simply stop responding because the situation will build up steam and the dog piling begins and then it just turns nasty and people say and do really lovely things. You seem to be taking this personally and your rhetoric is getting incomprehensible and that's not going to end well.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:37
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Warchicken posted:You're the one being ridiculous. I don't disagree with or question a lot of the content that's been posted here. As a servant of the state I acknowledge that there are a lot of problems. Problems that posting hysterical fantasies of cutting off body parts won't fix. Your avatar is a good example of why you shouldn't gently caress with Ruddha, and you are a boring jackass.
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Sep 4, 2013 17:05
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I thought that maybe the previous back-and-forth has had time to cool and this thread should be revived. This article on Arizona's privatized prison healthcare is pretty "shocking," I'll leave you with a choice quote. http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/...fterdeaths.html quote:[a lawsuit] cites examples of prisoners being told to pray to be cured or drink energy shakes to treat cancer symptoms.
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Dec 3, 2013 18:48
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anglachel posted:Local judges win by EXTREMELY small margins. Grassroots organizing to get about a 1000 people to vote could destroy some of these "Tough on Crime!" judges. I mean gently caress I saw one polling place for a local election that said they got 30 people the entire day, all of them older, all of them very conservative. My experience from when I was on the ballot was that people tend to get "voter fatigue" and quit voting after a few positions. The time I was on the ballot, about 95k people voted for President, about 90K for Senate and by the time they got to the race I was in, about 40k people had quit voting. The judges were after me and I suspect that they had a much lower amount of votes for their races than for my race. And my suspicion is that in the majority of states, to get on the ballot as a judge just requires you to be a member of the bar for 5 years. So if you're a lawyer and want a paycut, run for judge. Be the change you want to see in the world.
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Dec 3, 2013 19:16
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big business sloth posted:I thought that maybe the previous back-and-forth has had time to cool and this thread should be revived. This article on Arizona's privatized prison healthcare is pretty "shocking," I'll leave you with a choice quote. This is atrocious. Also fun fact: the lawyer for Wexford quoted in the article is an NFL referee. I knew I'd seen that name before. What the gently caress?
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Dec 4, 2013 06:25
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Huttan posted:And my suspicion is that in the majority of states, to get on the ballot as a judge just requires you to be a member of the bar for 5 years. So if you're a lawyer and want a paycut, run for judge. Be the change you want to see in the world.
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Dec 14, 2013 00:02
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To be a magistrate judge in many U.S. states requires no more than a high school diploma (and the connections to get appointed). Admittedly that's not a criminal court, though.
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Dec 14, 2013 00:09
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MechPlasma posted:Wait, seriously? That's a tiny requirement! In my country, it's a minimum 10 years working as a lawyer (which itself requires a minimum of... two years post-Bar?), then hand-picked by the government, and then appointed by the president. 5 years on the Bar and win the people's heart and you get to be a judge? That can't be right! It can. Also, hardly anyone votes in local elections, and for judges in particular; so you only need to win the hearts of a dedicated minority of the people.
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Dec 14, 2013 01:09
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Stew Man Chew posted:This is atrocious. Also fun fact: the lawyer for Wexford quoted in the article is an NFL referee. I knew I'd seen that name before. What the gently caress? Being an NFL referee is a part-time job and they all keep their day jobs (or business ventures, as the case may be). Hochuli happens to be an attorney.
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Dec 14, 2013 01:21
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Here's some "good" news on the prison front:quote:
http://www.mentalhealth4inmates.org/ "Good" in quotes because it's horrible these conditions exist of course, but good that the judicial system is willing to address them.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:03
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Florida: Circuit Judge: 1. Elector and resident of the circuit upon taking office. 2. Must be a member of the Florida Bar for the preceding five years. 3. No judge shall serve after attaining the age of seventy years except upon temporary assignment or to complete a term, one-half of which has been served. District court of appeals or state supreme court: 1. Elector and resident of the circuit upon taking office. 2. Must be a member of the Florida Bar for the preceding ten years. 3. No judge shall serve after attaining the age of seventy years except upon temporary assignment or to complete a term, one-half of which has been served. It is permitted for judges in small rural counties to be non-lawyers. They need to take a 3-year course at one of the state law schools that is basically a JD. To be a county judge in a larger county requires the same qualifications as the circuit judges. http://election.dos.state.fl.us/publications/pdf/2013/2014_State_Qualifying_Handbook.pdf Colorado: Nominated by committee and appointed by the Governor. Elections are to retain the judge. Generally, you need to be licensed to practice law for 5 years, be a registered voter and live in the district you're looking to represent and be under age 72 to be nominated. http://www.cobar.org/index.cfm/ID/0/subID/429/Where-Do-%28Colorado%29-Judges-Come-From?/ quote:In small counties with populations under 35,000, a nominee does not have to be licensed to practice law in Colorado, but must have graduated from high school or have attained the equivalent of a high school education. Residency and qualified elector requirements are the same. http://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/File/Media/Education/Takes_to_become_a_judge.pdf New York: Except for housing court, 10 years licensed to practice law in NY state (5 years for housing court). Some judicial positions are appointed, some are elected. http://www.nycbar.org/pdf/report/become_a_judge.pdf Federal judges are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. There aren't any other official requirements. You'll need a thick skin and to be as boring as Bork to survive the media circus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act was passed as a direct result of Bork's nomination circus. And I'm serious about recommending that folks run for elected office. It isn't as hard as you think it is. There are a lot of state and local positions that are part time and can be done while you keep your day job. I spent less than $200 total running for office both times.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:59
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Huttan posted:District court of appeals or state supreme court: quote:In small counties with populations under 35,000, a nominee does not have to be licensed to practice law in Colorado, but must have graduated from high school or have attained the equivalent of a high school education. Residency and qualified elector requirements are the same.
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Jan 11, 2014 22:28
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Calenth posted:Don't get me wrong, appointment of judges is still a preferable system and I'm glad we have it, but it's not a panacea. Regardless of how the judge attains office the main thing they're worrying about during sentencing is "if this guy reoffends, what will it do to my career?"
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Jan 12, 2014 02:07
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https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/ Came across this. Certainly not as bad as some other cases here, but still pretty drat horrific.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:30
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While that is some gently caress the police poo poo right there, if true; that is about the least sympathetic narrator ever.
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Feb 19, 2014 10:47
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VideoTapir posted:While that is some gently caress the police poo poo right there, if true; that is about the least sympathetic narrator ever. Who gives a poo poo? Why should that matter?
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Feb 19, 2014 11:48
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Pope Guilty posted:Who gives a poo poo? Why should that matter? Because he's basically validating everything he claims the police said about him (some of which sounds a little STDH), if not what they did to him. It also means that this isn't something you'd want to show to someone who needs to be convinced.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:09
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So did you mean to say "gently caress the police, but he totally deserved it?"
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Feb 20, 2014 01:38
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BattleMaster posted:So did you mean to say "gently caress the police, but he totally deserved it?" Did you mean to say "I have no reading comprehension?"
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Feb 20, 2014 02:37
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VideoTapir posted:Did you mean to say "I have no reading comprehension?"
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Feb 20, 2014 08:55
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I get half of what he said. We all know the dance you have to do whenever the police are around, and he definitely got every step wrong. It wasn't mentioned, but I get the feeling that he at some point was looking a cop in the eyes and standing up straight. That alone is worth 3/4 of a beating... right. I guess that could make someone less sympathetic, but to me its a strength that points out the absurdity of the dance and how we've accepted this kind of response as normal. So a bit like the whole "these are the things I taught my, black, son to do so that he doesn't get murdered during a traffic stop" thing.
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Feb 23, 2014 00:52
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Soulcleaver posted:I failed to understand you, too. You post a lot on this thread so I know you aren't just some fascist apologist, but I don't see what's so unsympathetic about a guy who was (if the author is being truthful) beaten and imprisoned for calling an ambulance to help someone in need. I can see how he comes off as unsympathetic, what with the way he tries to tell the cops all about ~his startup~ in order to "connect" with them, and upon discovering that they can't afford to live in the very bowels of Silicon Valley, essentially concludes that his treatment must be the result of poor cops committing class warfare against rich communities. He's clearly an upper-middle-class white person who was so incredibly unaware of his white privilege that he doesn't realize this is how the cops treat everyone that isn't a rich white person, and he comes off as completely insufferable because of it. I agree that the cops shouldn't be able to mistreat people merely because they're being obnoxious or annoying, but the writer is completely unlikeable and that makes it very difficult to really connect with his story.
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Feb 23, 2014 03:43
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