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Guildencrantz posted:Eh, I was talking more about the actual bona fide fascists, like ONR/RN and rest of the Independence March clowncar. It's an open question as to whether PiS, as well as their ideological kin like Fidesz in Hungary, can be described as "fascist" if you're not just using the term as an insult. Don't get me wrong, they're still utter cunts and if they win I'll have a one-way plane ticket booked faster than you can say "Prime Minister Kaczynski", but I don't think they can accurately be termed fash. Modern national-conservatism is kind of its own thing. Fidesz did adopt policies wholesale from the Jobbik manifesto after getting elected.
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Feb 8, 2014 18:41
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Cerebral Bore posted:Just to remind everyone of what the fascist endgame was envisioned to be, let's hear it straight from the horse's mouth: Mechwarrior fan fiction is the worst.
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Feb 9, 2014 06:03
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Remember how the SMR(Swedish Resistance Movement) attacked an anti-racist demo back in December? Well, over 1300 pages of the investigation is now available. Problem is that we kind of lack a decent anonymous server to host it on. 230mb shouldn't be that hard to host but every free host we've used have bailed on us. It's a .zip with four .pdf-documents including info such as orders to avoid AFAs 20th anniversary, numerous chat and SMS logs. Oh, and the list of every single member of SMR there is. There's also a list of all the half-dozen or so members of the Finnish Resistance Movement in case any Finns here are interested. Only names but at least it's something to work with.
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Feb 19, 2014 09:19
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Rutkowski posted:Remember how the SMR(Swedish Resistance Movement) attacked an anti-racist demo back in December? Maybe stick it on the Pirate Bay or OneBigTorrent?
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Feb 19, 2014 11:57
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Pope Guilty posted:Maybe stick it on the Pirate Bay or OneBigTorrent? We got a torrent up but would also like a more unified solution.
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Feb 19, 2014 12:29
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Rutkowski posted:We got a torrent up but would also like a more unified solution. Would you mind getting a link up or something?
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Feb 19, 2014 13:22
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Kemper Boyd posted:Would you mind getting a link up or something? http://dropcanvas.com/u18wb/1
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Feb 19, 2014 13:41
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Rutkowski posted:Oh, sorry, totally didn't think of that. Was up until half past four AM reading this poo poo and I'm not close to done. If possible, post their addresses too
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Feb 19, 2014 13:51
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Brown Blitzkrieg posted:If possible, post their addresses too
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Feb 19, 2014 17:08
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PLease also post their elemental resistances and weaknesses + preferred pronouns.
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Feb 19, 2014 17:09
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:PLease also post their elemental resistances and weaknesses + preferred pronouns. The LFest post. Rutkowski posted:Who's? The attackers'? The entire organizations'? The FMR members'? Yes, the SMR people. Their neighbors have a right to know they live near a fascist.
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Feb 19, 2014 17:14
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:PLease also post their elemental resistances and weaknesses + preferred pronouns. I think establishment goons are rock type
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Feb 19, 2014 17:27
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Rutkowski posted:Who's? The attackers'? The entire organizations'? The FMR members'? You shouldn't post any addresses. A lot of these idiots still live with their parents or with roommates/neighbhours that have nothing to do with their ideology. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if some 9 year old kid got killed by a firebombing because someone posted their big brothers address on such a list.
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Feb 19, 2014 17:49
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Baron FU posted:You shouldn't post any addresses. A lot of these idiots still live with their parents or with roommates/neighbhours that have nothing to do with their ideology. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if some 9 year old kid got killed by a firebombing because someone posted their big brothers address on such a list. As for the entire membership, it's only names. However, those who were part of the attack have all had their adresses confirmed as them living there. Two of them had mirror adresses but it wasn't hard to find the real adresses. The people who are only identified by names are being matched with known nazis by other people though. However, as to not post a Swedish infodump in the thread I will instead provide info to those who seek it through PMs or anorut at hushmail dot com.
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Feb 19, 2014 18:02
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Going back to the Euromaidan discussion, you have not lived until you've seen an armoured Svoboda militant carrying a gigantic Ukrainian flag while standing next to a gigantic fire caused by a Molotov. When they saw the Molotov begin to burn, they just casually cordoned the affected area off. http://channel9000.net/svoboda2/ e: Tune in now. From what I can see, Svoboda and the Berkut are having a gigantic stand-off under the bridge. Noctis Horrendae fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 01:37
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Rutkowski posted:Remember how the SMR(Swedish Resistance Movement) attacked an anti-racist demo back in December? Would WikiLeaks be an option? If not, let me know the torrent and I'll put it up on a Chinese site. It'll be slow as gently caress but they won't give a poo poo about the content.
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Feb 21, 2014 12:04
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Oh yeah we got a proper host now. For you Swedes it's at Ta Tillbaka Välfärdens Facebook page. The rest of ya will have to wait unto Sunday evening when I get back home from my inlaws and get access to my computer there.
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Feb 21, 2014 17:39
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So....what happened to the anarchists, communists and antifascists in Ukraine?
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Feb 24, 2014 07:24
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Got bashed, by the fash.
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Feb 24, 2014 07:39
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:So....what happened to the anarchists, communists and antifascists in Ukraine? Most likely suppressed to oblivion by a combination of factors, most notably any form of leftism especially communism being associated with Russian nationalism and thus the "enemy" leaving largely only far rightists/fascists, conservative liberals and a small smattering of moderate liberals. The far-rightists fought tooth and nail, and eventually won against both the police (some of whom were sympathetic and were willing to follow them) and largely take the narrative from the liberals who easily lost control of the situation. Currently, there is a bill up for debate to ban the Communist party out right while fascists and sympathetic police forces guard the parliament and other government buildings.
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Feb 24, 2014 07:42
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rudatron posted:Got bashed, by the fash. Wish i could empty quote this. They were kicked out of the protests by the fascists and assorted right wing groups whose populist drivel took over the movement. Some tried to do their own side protests with little gains, others stayed inside and got beaten or simply kept their mouths shut and others told the whole thing to gently caress off because they knew it was way too late to change the rhetoric of the protests. The Communist party declared the entire protests as fascists and mobilized to defend their headquarters in the east after their centers were looted in the west and the party declared illegal by Svoboda. This should be case for concern but a lot of goons in the Eastern European thread keep assuring everyone that anyone who notes the importance of the fash in the whole thing is just gobbling Russia Today and that the Right Sector (a new fascist party who declared the above mentioned fascists as too liberal) being given the right to act as active police is necessary and anyone against it is just a marxist baby. Let's see what happens when the new and improved Ukranian oligarch government fucks it up 
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Feb 24, 2014 07:55
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Mans posted:Wish i could empty quote this.
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Feb 24, 2014 08:06
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Omi-Polari posted:Where are you reading this? I'm interested. Yeah not more than two days ago I saw pictures from Liberty Square on Al Jazzera and someone had the Black and Red flying 
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Feb 24, 2014 08:15
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KomradeX posted:Yeah not more than two days ago I saw pictures from Liberty Square on Al Jazzera and someone had the Black and Red flying It was a probably horizontal red and black flag, not a diagonal flag. Almost certainly it was the flag of Right Sector http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector who are purely fascist. They got the flag from the UPA. Euromadian was pretty much dominated by the right, and the action itself the hard and far-right. If anything the Ukrainian upheaval is a pretty good model for how the extreme right can became a major power player in society by being in the right place at the right time and politically useful for traditional domestic political forces (and their allies). Ardennes fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 08:23
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Mans posted:Wish i could empty quote this. You're not acknowledging reality. The prospects of leftism in Eastern Europe are very slim right now. Over here, leftism is associated with Russian imperialism and domination and it's only "alive" in the form of red-coated Russian nationalist/minority rights parties calling themselves "communist" for historical reasons. It's pretty crazy if you think about how different late Soviet communism is from D&D communism. I think few people here really understand that. In the late USSR, hardly anyone was a sincere communist - most people just put on a communist front for career purposes (or to stay out of jail). All the Marxist theory that D&D goons like to enthusiastically read about and discuss was considered obnoxious propaganda which you had to cram to pass exams in "dialectical materialism". The average "communist" was also almost the diametrical opposite of the average D&D poster - the former often being a socially conservative cynical bureaucrat, the latter a young anxiety-ridden idealist. The USSR era didn't change what people here actually believed in - they were nationalists before and after the Soviet Union. Also, I know it's cool to hate on the EU but over here, it really is a positive influence. If it wasn't for the EU, the countries would have no reason to behave themselves at all. If Ukraine was located next to Kazakhstan and not the EU, we would not be talking about the danger of a right-wing nationalist power grab, it would have already happened.
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Feb 24, 2014 12:00
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Dusz posted:You're not acknowledging reality. The prospects of leftism in Eastern Europe are very slim right now. Over here, leftism is associated with Russian imperialism and domination and it's only "alive" in the form of red-coated Russian nationalist/minority rights parties calling themselves "communist" for historical reasons. I think this is more than a bit patronising. Most "D&D communists" are perfectly aware of the establishmentarian nature of communism in the late Soviet Union, and it has nothing to do with Mans's basic point about the far-right presence in Ukraine.
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Feb 24, 2014 12:11
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Zohar posted:I think this is more than a bit patronising. Most "D&D communists" are perfectly aware of the establishmentarian nature of communism in the late Soviet Union, and it has nothing to do with Mans's basic point about the far-right presence in Ukraine. They aren't and it does
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Feb 24, 2014 12:23
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:They aren't and it does So what's the intrinsic connection between the statements "communism in Eastern Europe is Soviet imperialism" and "fascists don't play a significant part in Maidan" -- which is how I was reading the implication of that post? e: nm on D&D communists, stupid thing to argue about Zohar fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 12:34
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The way you read the post is much darker: it's naïve as gently caress to expect the 'communists' in the Ukraine to organize any kind of antithesis against the growing fascist threat
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Feb 24, 2014 12:50
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Well I agree with that, but Mans's basic point was just that people pointing out the fascist threat in Ukraine are being called pro-Russian propagandists and fringe communists.
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Feb 24, 2014 12:53
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Zohar posted:Well I agree with that, but Mans's basic point was just that people pointing out the fascist threat in Ukraine are being called pro-Russian propagandists and fringe communists. Is the only implication of his post that people ought to be anxious and worried? I think most people already are anxious and worried (or they don't care at all).
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Feb 24, 2014 12:59
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Zohar posted:Well I agree with that, but Mans's basic point was just that people pointing out the fascist threat in Ukraine are being called pro-Russian propagandists and fringe communists. Several of the people pushing this fascist threat line of conversation were also the same people exhorting the protestors to not use any violence and go back home; their line was essentially to try to convince the Ukranians to give up the protests and seek a more "peaceful means" of negotiation to satisfy their grievances. That is why some people are getting flak, because it has been used as a red herring by hand-wringing types. There is much less of a Fascist threat in the Ukraine right now because many of the Fascists that were in the Ukraine have fled, already having been hired by the government to beat protestors and then chased out by the very same. Fascism supports authoritarianism, not rebellion. edit: also Dusz posted:It's pretty crazy if you think about how different late Soviet communism is from D&D communism. I think few people here really understand that. In the late USSR, hardly anyone was a sincere communist - most people just put on a communist front for career purposes (or to stay out of jail). All the Marxist theory that D&D goons like to enthusiastically read about and discuss was considered obnoxious propaganda which you had to cram to pass exams in "dialectical materialism". The average "communist" was also almost the diametrical opposite of the average D&D poster - the former often being a socially conservative cynical bureaucrat, the latter a young anxiety-ridden idealist. are you really trying to compare the Communism of the late Soviet era with the Communistic Zeitgeist of the SA politics subforum? This is loving hilarious. King of Hamas fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 17:42
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King of Hamas posted:There is much less of a Fascist threat in the Ukraine right now because many of the Fascists that were in the Ukraine have fled, already having been hired by the government to beat protestors and then chased out by the very same. 'Many' is a weasel word. The fascist party Svoboda is still an active part of the opposition, a fascist was just recently appointed attorney-general, and Pravy Sektor are still cooperating with the Interior Ministry forces in maintaining order in Kiev. From where I'm standing there has been no substantive change in the composition of the protest movement in one direction or the other. I agree that it would be disingenuous to use their presence to delegitimise the protest movement as a whole, as the Russian propagandists have been doing, but what I've been driving at is that there is also legitimate cause for concern. The practical point isn't that we (I mean non-Ukrainians and particularly Westerners) should be anxious or frightened, it's simply that we should be aware of what is actually happening. And that we should be prepared for this kind of sudden legitimation of the far right in the future. It happened on a lesser scale in Hungary in 2006 and I'm sure it will happen elsewhere in the future. King of Hamas posted:Fascism supports authoritarianism, not rebellion. It can support both, and has done so historically. Methodologically, appeals to an imagined essential nature of fascism aren't particularly robust. It is what it is.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:56
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Dusz posted:You're not acknowledging reality. The prospects of leftism in Eastern Europe are very slim right now. Over here, leftism is associated with Russian imperialism and domination and it's only "alive" in the form of red-coated Russian nationalist/minority rights parties calling themselves "communist" for historical reasons. That any action in Ukraine or Poland will almost 100% be coming from the right does not excuse the annoying amount of posters who dismissed any and all fascist participation as negligible or as over-reaction by strawman leftists. Dusz posted:Is the only implication of his post that people ought to be anxious and worried? I think most people already are anxious and worried (or they don't care at all). That hypocrisy to me is the most striking event in the Ukrainian crisis, although it didn't shock me much.
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Feb 24, 2014 18:18
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Mans posted:Wish i could empty quote this. I'm just going to quote the article presented in the Eastern Europe thread as a proof that the left did everything they could quote:“Anarchists are on some barricades and in stores of hundreds (brigades of one hundred) of Samoobrona (The Self-Defence), autonomous anarchists appear on the first line, but so far everything looks pretty chaotic – most of them in small groups and does not coordinate their activities with others in any way, not marking their presence, unless the by graffiti” – says Ganner . quote:“Moderate anarchists and libertarian leftists are trying to join the movement, to exert somehow an effect on it, but in the same time not distinguishing themselves specially. To not go beyond the general framework of discourse, to apply hints gently . They do not want to talk about a national revolution , but restrain themselves of any other.” – concludes Ganner. quote:In the leftist and trade union environment of Ukraine there is no single assessment of the occurring events and an action plan. In the words of activists “all variants of events are considered, including a civil war.”. Cooperating with each other, participating in street resistance, the leftists do it on their own initiatives rather. All they agree in one point – now you can not simply disperse to homes. After the adoption of the laws of January 16, the protests against the regime of Yanukovych were supported virtually by all left-wing forces. Welp. They tried so hard. Mans posted:The Communist party declared the entire protests as fascists and mobilized to defend their headquarters in the east after their centers were looted in the west and the party declared illegal by Svoboda. Communist parties in the East at this point have poo poo to do with actual communism, or anything leftist. They are mostly there to support Russian politics, and make an impression of plurality in former Soviet bloc countries' parliaments. The "communists" in Ukraine were in coalition with Party of Regions and never did poo poo to either oppose the oligarchs or stop the country's slide into neoliberalism. quote:This should be case for concern but a lot of goons in the Eastern European thread keep assuring everyone that anyone who notes the importance of the fash in the whole thing is just gobbling Russia Today and that the Right Sector (a new fascist party who declared the above mentioned fascists as too liberal) being given the right to act as active police is necessary and anyone against it is just a marxist baby. No one in that thread claimed that the Right Sector should be given the rights of the police, you made that up. The fact that fascists got involved doesn't change the fact that the revolution in Ukraine wasn't a fascist uprising. The Right Sector gained some traction, but people hardly clamor to unite behind Dmytro Yarosh. In fact, they hardly clamor to unite behind anyone - if anything, they remained very mistrustful of politicians. This alone will make setting up a fascist dictatorship harder. And there is a lot that the left actually gained from the uprising, regardless of its composition. The narrative of common Ukrainians banding together to overthrow a corrupt government and succeeding actually is more useful to the left, than to the right (especially fascists who love strong leaders). The image of people beating up and dispersing cops in riot armors is more inspiring than ten essays about means of production. There is also a lot of practical knowledge how to organize a mass demonstration (or uprising, if it's needed), how not to get dispersed and beaten up, organizing a self-defence force to police the occupied territory.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:21
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Gantolandon posted:No one in that thread claimed that the Right Sector should be given the rights of the police, you made that up. There are cops that have now sided with Right Sector (and certainly there was a big portion that was always sympathetic). At some point I am sure it will be swept under the rug but I still believe right now there are Right Sector guys "patrolling" central Kiev. Euromadian wasn't a fascist uprising but the actual turning point was guided mostly by fascists. Admittedly they often took the most visible causalities as well. The issue is though that even if people band against a right-wing government that is authoritarian and corrupt doesn't actually mean it is a victory if the result may actually be possibly worse for normal people. If anything it is the far-right that got most of the experience, and if anything will be the ones in a far better position for civil disobedience if they don't get what they want. Ultimately, if the provisional government doesn't satisfy them then can just call them traitors and start the process again. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Feb 26, 2014 |
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Feb 26, 2014 02:46
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Ardennes posted:Euromadian wasn't a fascist uprising but the actual turning point was guided mostly by fascists. Admittedly they often took the most visible causalities as well.
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Feb 26, 2014 03:13
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Ardennes posted:There are cops that have now sided with Right Sector (and certainly there was a big portion that was always sympathetic). At some point I am sure it will be swept under the rug but I still believe right now there are Right Sector guys "patrolling" central Kiev. The Right Sector started to attack the police, but that wouldn't mean poo poo without mass support and other, non-fascist factions. They would be very quickly overwhelmed by Berkut, if not for hundreds of people fighting with them and Maidan's infrastructure. Even with their newfound cred, I don't see them gathering such mass support for establishing a fascist dictatorship. Claims that it would be better for a right-wing, authoritarian and corrupt government to win, because there is a slight possibility that otherwise fascists could take over, coming from the members of the left are pure  .
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Feb 26, 2014 03:18
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Gantolandon posted:The Right Sector started to attack the police, but that wouldn't mean poo poo without mass support and other, non-fascist factions. They would be very quickly overwhelmed by Berkut, if not for hundreds of people fighting with them and Maidan's infrastructure. Even with their newfound cred, I don't see them gathering such mass support for establishing a fascist dictatorship. Right Sector had its allies but it was a blurring of right-radicals that did the vast majority of the fighting and supposedly over time the maidan itself took on a much more overt right-wing tone especially a religious one. I don't they would gather support for a fascist dictatorship straight off by leverage their new power within the chaos of the current parliamentary system, such as getting rid of minority language autonomy, banning Russian TV and banning the CPU/Party of Regions. Well the issue is that it is like you are going to have a corrupt right-wing government either way, so they picked the one that was more anti-US. It actually reminds me of the Egyptian revolution when everything expected things to work out, when in fact the politics just became more brutal and diametric and little was accomplished in the end.
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Feb 26, 2014 03:32
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Ardennes posted:Right Sector had its allies but it was a blurring of right-radicals that did the vast majority of the fighting and supposedly over time the maidan itself took on a much more overt right-wing tone especially a religious one. I don't they would gather support for a fascist dictatorship straight off by leverage their new power within the chaos of the current parliamentary system, such as getting rid of minority language autonomy, banning Russian TV and banning the CPU/Party of Regions. A corrupt right-wing government is nowhere near a given right now. With Yanukovych in power you have this pretty much a given. Also, banning Russian TV and reverting the act of minority language autonomy were only propositions that didn't even pass, mostly because nearly everyone but the Right Sector thought them stupid and over the top. Edit: I just realized that, according to this logic, KPD were stupid to try to ferment a revolution in the 30s... they should have supported Hindenburg and von Papen instead. 
Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Feb 26, 2014 |
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Feb 26, 2014 15:38
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