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I’ve done a lot of googling on this but can’t really find anyone who has my specific problem. The GFCI protected outlet in my garage stopped working after a few years. I did the whole breaker reset outside and pressed reset on every outlet in the house. Randomly, I tested a sign in the outlet that is setup like the one below(it was the closest thing I could find on google images). While nothing else I plugged in worked, this lit up very dimly. It also allowed me to figure out which other outlet this was attached too. When I pressed test on my bathroom outlet, the light on the sign would go out and then when I pressed reset they would come back on very dimly again. The bathroom outlet, along with every other outlet in the house works fine. Every other site said that simply resetting the bathroom should have worked since I’ve confirmed the connection. Should I replace the outlet or is there something else I can try? http://www.rinovelty.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.detail/item/NLMANCA/light_up_man_cave_sign
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Feb 7, 2014 22:03
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chances are it's the GFCI outlet in the bathroom that went bad (as they tend to do eventually).. i'd start there. turn the circuit off and make sure you pay attention to how the wires are hooked up on the back of the gfi (line is power in, load is to the outlets down stream). to test if it's bad just tie your blacks together and your whites together, turn the circuit back on and go check the plug in the garage down stream. if it works your GFCI was bad and you should just need to pop in a new one.
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Feb 8, 2014 02:58
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crocodile posted:chances are it's the GFCI outlet in the bathroom that went bad (as they tend to do eventually).. i'd start there. turn the circuit off and make sure you pay attention to how the wires are hooked up on the back of the gfi (line is power in, load is to the outlets down stream). to test if it's bad just tie your blacks together and your whites together, turn the circuit back on and go check the plug in the garage down stream. if it works your GFCI was bad and you should just need to pop in a new one. I've been reading the thread and I'm so happy I found this forum. I will try what you said tomorrow but as a learning tool, I would like to know how you came to that conclusion. How does the bathroom outlet work but also be the problem?
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Feb 8, 2014 06:57
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GFCIs are weird and malfunction in weird ways. i came to that conclusion from years in the field troubleshooting stuff like that. might not be the solution but like i said, that's where i'd start.
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Feb 9, 2014 02:17
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kolby posted:I've been reading the thread and I'm so happy I found this forum. I will try what you said tomorrow but as a learning tool, I would like to know how you came to that conclusion. How does the bathroom outlet work but also be the problem? Here's how he did it. You've heard of the tree branch analogy for circuits, right? When troubleshooting circuits, you start from the trunk and work out to the branch tips until you find the problem. GFCIs have terminals on them that allow other non-GFCI devices farther out the branch to piggyback off their protection. When you press the test button on a GFCI, you cut the power to it and everything on its protection branch. From your description, when you tested your bathroom GFCI, it also turned off the garage GFCI, however little power it was receiving. That should mean that the garage GFCI is being protected by the bathroom GFCI, which is weird. A GFCI can protect itself, they don't need to be daisy-chained like that and there's no real benefit to doing it. So the bathroom GFCI might not be the problem itself, but it is located at the root of the problem. Like croc said, that's where you should start. Pull that one of the wall and have a look at what wires are attached to it and where. If it does have wires attached to its protected terminals, then answer this: when you test the bathroom GFCI, what else in your house turns off? Is it just that one GFCI in the garage?
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Feb 11, 2014 00:37
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haha, thanks for the way better explanation than i gave. :-) from the way he worded it i got the sense that there was only a GFCI in the bathroom and the plug in the garage was just GFCI protected. i've seen that in a lot of houses from the era right before the "bath plugs on their own circuit" code came about where the garage, bath and a lot of times the outside plugs would all be fed from one GFCI..sometimes in the garage, sometimes in the bathroom. what year was your house built, kolby? ps: i'm not a he 
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Feb 11, 2014 03:25
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I'm redoing my kitchen and am having trouble with my overhead light circuit. I gutted the kitchen and had it rewired and replaced the 60amp fuse box with a 200amp panel (the rough electric was professionally done). I finished painting the ceiling and figured I'd throw in the lights for the recessed fixtures and the switches for that circuit so I wouldn't have to keep tripping over worklights. It took a few hours but I got everything on the circuit working: 1 switch for 2 overhead lights in one part of the kitchen, 2 3-way switches for 4 overhead lights in the other part of the kitchen, and a switch for 2 outside light fixtures that I put in a few months ago. On Saturday and Sunday everything worked great. On Monday...nothing works and the fuse is tripped. So far I've: Put the switches in different positions and tried to turn the breaker on Swapped out all of the switches for switches bought new from HD Rewired the 3-way switches every possible way (they did work correctly when I installed them) Taken all of the lights out of the fixtures. They're LED retrofits so I was thinking there was enough going on in the back of the case that it could trip the breaker if something was wrong. Taken all of the switches out Tried a different empty-but-installed 15amp breaker in the box. At this point all I can think to do is unwind the wires the electrician neatly packed in the boxes and isolate each set of lights on that fuse to see if I can trace what is tripping the breaker, but I feel like theres something I'm missing--something in the panel that I failed to do besides plug the hot wire in? After tomorrow I'm probably going to just call the electrician and tell them I hosed with their work and please save me from the well I'm in, but I want to believe I can fix this myself. Any ideas? Neight fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 03:44
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Neight posted:I'm redoing my kitchen and am having trouble with my overhead light circuit. I gutted the kitchen and had it rewired and replaced the 60amp fuse box with a 200amp panel (the rough electric was professionally done). I finished painting the ceiling and figured I'd throw in the lights for the recessed fixtures and the switches for that circuit so I wouldn't have to keep tripping over worklights. It took a few hours but I got everything on the circuit working: 1 switch for 2 overhead lights in one part of the kitchen, 2 3-way switches for 4 overhead lights in the other part of the kitchen, and a switch for 2 outside light fixtures that I put in a few months ago. On Saturday and Sunday everything worked great. Are all of these lights on one circuit? Try only putting lights in each leg, ex 2 overheads. See if you can isolate a bad leg or a bad LED. If you can, plug each LED into a working circuit somewhere else in the house to assure they all function.
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Feb 13, 2014 14:04
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I figured it out yesterday. And demonstrated why on every "what is wrong with this thing?" home wiring thread on the internet when someone says "how are we supposed to know what's wrong with your home wiring without a diagram or more information?" they're right. I didn't realize that the electrician had wired an outside outlet to the circuit and hadn't put a new outlet in the box. My friend and I separated all of the wires and found that one hot and ground were connected. We couldn't figure out where the wire went and then I thought to check that box:  except the wire was still welded to the side of the box. I guess the lesson is that when the only thing it could be is the wind, it might actually be the wind.
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Feb 14, 2014 03:18
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I feel like this is kind of a dumb question, but - how do I measure current with a clamp meter on a 220 line? I get it on 110, you clamp around the hot and there you go. On 220, though, I have 2 hots and a ground. I'm just getting a 0 when I try to measure it. Do I have to measure the hots separately? Other possibility is that the meter's junked - I got this one at a yard sale and this is the first time I've tried to measure current with it.
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Feb 16, 2014 03:58
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you ate my cat posted:I feel like this is kind of a dumb question, but - how do I measure current with a clamp meter on a 220 line? I get it on 110, you clamp around the hot and there you go. On 220, though, I have 2 hots and a ground. I'm just getting a 0 when I try to measure it. Do I have to measure the hots separately? If it's reading 0Amps on both lines, that either means there's too little current for it to measure, you're not using it right, or it's broken. Most likely broken- open it up and see if there's a blown replaceable fuse. grover fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 04:10
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you ate my cat posted:On 220, though, I have 2 hots and a ground. I'm just getting a 0 when I try to measure it. Do I have to measure the hots separately? Just measure one of the hots, same as you'd do on a 120V circuit. Assuming there's no neutral line and no ground fault, the same amount of current is flowing through both wires. If you put the clamp around both they'll cancel each other out which would explain your zero reading.
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Feb 16, 2014 04:39
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SolidElectronics posted:Just measure one of the hots, same as you'd do on a 120V circuit. Assuming there's no neutral line and no ground fault, the same amount of current is flowing through both wires. If you put the clamp around both they'll cancel each other out which would explain your zero reading. 
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Feb 16, 2014 04:46
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Thanks guys. I'm sure there's enough current to measure - this is on a pair of electric furnaces, each on a 60 and a 30 amp breaker. They're underperforming in weird ways and we're wondering if we're not getting the amperage on one of the phases coming in. I definitely wasn't using it right, so I'll start there. Still could be broken though.
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Feb 16, 2014 14:39
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tomapot posted:I have a doorbell wiring question. This was a while back but wanted to thank Guy Axlerod and Kid Sinister for your help. Tracked down two problems, the button was getting stuck, burning out the transformer and the one bell unit was bad. Replaced them all and was back in business. Thanks guys.
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Feb 16, 2014 19:30
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I just bought a house that's a 110 year old converted duplex, so it has two 100 amp breaker boxes. When I bought it I was happy because there was romex coming out of both breaker boxes and romex at each of the three prong outlets through the house. However I've found that none of the outlets on breaker box 2 (second floor) are grounded. What do I start looking for to find out why there is romex properly attached to the outlets and romex at the box but no good ground?
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Feb 17, 2014 16:03
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Stultus Maximus posted:I just bought a house that's a 110 year old converted duplex, so it has two 100 amp breaker boxes. When I bought it I was happy because there was romex coming out of both breaker boxes and romex at each of the three prong outlets through the house. However I've found that none of the outlets on breaker box 2 (second floor) are grounded. What do I start looking for to find out why there is romex properly attached to the outlets and romex at the box but no good ground? Was the electric service redone along with the renovation? Is one panel a subpanel of the other? How about this: how many services appear on your electric bill? Start at the box and work out to the outlets. Are the ground wires properly attached to the grounding busbar inside the box? Answer that question about the meters and we will tell you where to go next. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 00:34
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kid sinister posted:Was the electric service redone along with the renovation? Is one panel a subpanel of the other? How about this: how many meters do you have on the outside of your house? Two meters, independent breaker boxes. One serves the first floor and half the basement, the other serves the second floor and the other half of the basement.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:37
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Stultus Maximus posted:Two meters, independent breaker boxes. One serves the first floor and half the basement, the other serves the second floor and the other half of the basement. OK, check out that grounding busbar and make sure that the ground wires are actually attached to it. Also make sure that the grounding busbar is attached to the neutral busbar via the rod supplied for that box. Note: for main panels where the ground and neutral bars are joined like that, you're allowed to mix and match ground and neutral wires on their busbars, so don't be surprised if you find them not being used exclusively.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:42
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One of the hot bus bars is out on the main panel at my investment property. I moved the circuit breaker that powers the furnace to the bar that's still hot, but that leaves three or four circuits that are out. Gonna call an electrician tomorrow. There's nothing I can really do myself, right? The problem is either above the main circuit breaker to it is the main circuit breaker. Also, I considered moving all the circuits to the live bus bar, essentially loading up that one bar with all the house's circuits (100 amp service, 8 15 amp circuits, no hot water heater or dryer) as a short term fix, but was advised against doing that. Just wanted to double check that it's a bad idea.
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Feb 19, 2014 04:05
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Blackjack2000 posted:There's nothing I can really do myself, right? The problem is either above the main circuit breaker to it is the main circuit breaker. Do you have a multimeter? Set it to AC volts, touch one probe to neutral and the other probe around the main breaker to see how far the power reaches on both phases. Check in front of the main breaker and behind it. And yes, that's a bad idea. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 05:42
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Call your utility and tell them you have half power so they'll check their side, before you spend money on an electrician service call.
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Feb 19, 2014 13:08
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I am gonna be installing a 40 amp, 220 circuit soon for a friend's new oven/microwave combo (which is apparently a thing). I have done a fair bit of 110 work, but never 220. I am assuming it'll be a 4 wire setup, two to the breaker, one to the neutral bar, and one to ground. Anything fundamental that I am missing? 8 gauge wire for a short (probably less than 20 feet) run? Proper double breaker as well.
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Feb 19, 2014 20:55
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Slugworth posted:I am gonna be installing a 40 amp, 220 circuit soon for a friend's new oven/microwave combo (which is apparently a thing). I have done a fair bit of 110 work, but never 220. I am assuming it'll be a 4 wire setup, two to the breaker, one to the neutral bar, and one to ground. Anything fundamental that I am missing? 8 gauge wire for a short (probably less than 20 feet) run? Proper double breaker as well. Some 220 is only 3 wire (no neutral) but for most appliances like that it's going to be 4-wire so they can grab one phase for 120v to run things like the clock or maybe even the microwave.....things that may be shared between the gas (usually 120v) and electric versions. But, yeah.....sounds like you've got it down.
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Feb 19, 2014 21:22
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Slugworth posted:I am gonna be installing a 40 amp, 220 circuit soon for a friend's new oven/microwave combo (which is apparently a thing). I have done a fair bit of 110 work, but never 220. I am assuming it'll be a 4 wire setup, two to the breaker, one to the neutral bar, and one to ground. Anything fundamental that I am missing? 8 gauge wire for a short (probably less than 20 feet) run? Proper double breaker as well. Those are wall units. They're designed to fit into the cabinet openings for double ovens in older kitchens. You are right, you will need 8#/3wG wire and a tandem 40A breaker. For 40A, you will need to hardwire it since they only make 30A and 50A sockets and cords. You could step up to 6 gauge and use a 50A socket and plug though.
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Feb 19, 2014 21:54
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I read that if a 220 device is not within sight of the panel you need a disconnect (which an outlet would count as) - Is that accurate, in case I end up hard wiring it?
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Feb 20, 2014 00:15
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Slugworth posted:I read that if a 220 device is not within sight of the panel you need a disconnect (which an outlet would count as) - Is that accurate, in case I end up hard wiring it? You are probably thinking about external devices like AC/heat pump compressors or hot tubs.
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Feb 20, 2014 00:25
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kid sinister posted:OK, check out that grounding busbar and make sure that the ground wires are actually attached to it. Also make sure that the grounding busbar is attached to the neutral busbar via the rod supplied for that box. Note: for main panels where the ground and neutral bars are joined like that, you're allowed to mix and match ground and neutral wires on their busbars, so don't be surprised if you find them not being used exclusively. Well, I went back over today and took a hard look. The boxes seem to be set up correctly. However, for reasons I cannot begin to understand, romex comes out of the box, then connects to old junction boxes, carries on two wire metal conduit for a while, then back to romex at the outlets. My initial reaction is to shut off the power and tear out everything between the box and the outlets and just rewire it sanely. For good measure there are some instances where an outlet gets its very own 15 amp breaker. Jesus.
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Feb 20, 2014 01:12
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Slugworth posted:I read that if a 220 device is not within sight of the panel you need a disconnect (which an outlet would count as) - Is that accurate, in case I end up hard wiring it? Actually, an "outlet" only counts as a disconnect if it's accessible. For a wall mounted oven, that means you need to be able to reach it when the oven is in place. Usually, you cut a hole in the cabinet bottom big enough for the plug and put the socket in the cabinet underneath. If you just slap it behind the oven where you would have to pull out the oven first to unplug it, then you would still need an accessible disconnect. The code you're referring to is NEC 422.31(B), which states that you need both a way to open the circuit and verify that the circuit remains open while you're working on it. The 2 methods listed are either a disconnect or circuit breaker, including the ones in your main panel. For verification, you have 2 options: 1. Have the disconnect within sight of the appliance (you mentioned this). Note that some appliances can have "unit switches", which are basically built-in disconnects. 2. Be able to lock that disconnect in the open position. If you can't lock the disconnect or breaker itself directly, then lock access to it. That includes the panel cover, or even the room the panel is in. So if your panel door locks shut, you don't need a disconnect. If it doesn't but you install a tiny hasp with padlock on it, you don't need a disconnect. If you have a utility closet and can lock it shut, you don't need a disconnect. Stultus Maximus posted:Well, I went back over today and took a hard look. The boxes seem to be set up correctly. However, for reasons I cannot begin to understand, romex comes out of the box, then connects to old junction boxes, carries on two wire metal conduit for a while, then back to romex at the outlets. My initial reaction is to shut off the power and tear out everything between the box and the outlets and just rewire it sanely. For good measure there are some instances where an outlet gets its very own 15 amp breaker. Jesus. 2-wire conduit, or is it in a flex jacket? That sounds like BX... Check out my 3 prong upgrade post linked in the OP. It sounds like you've got the right idea: start from the panel and keep verifying a grounding path all the way back to the outlets. Outlets on their own breaker aren't that uncommon. Usually they're for dedicated circuits, like for microwaves, refrigerators, window ACs, etc. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 01:22
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kid sinister posted:So if your panel door locks shut, you don't need a disconnect. If it doesn't but you install a tiny hasp with padlock on it, you don't need a disconnect. If you have a utility closet and can lock it shut, you don't need a disconnect.
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Feb 20, 2014 01:52
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angryrobots posted:Call your utility and tell them you have half power so they'll check their side, before you spend money on an electrician service call. Whelp, that's what I should have done. But I called the electrician and he came out and in about 15 seconds figured out that the power was out above the meter and called public service. $200 wiser. gently caress.
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Feb 20, 2014 03:28
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Nobody ever listens to me!
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Feb 20, 2014 04:31
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I need to put flashing on the side of my house, on that 1x6 or whatever it is that runs under the roof. The mount for the power is sitting on the current flashing, and the flashing I'm looking at using is aluminum. If I errantly hit the power line with a piece of flashing, will I get electrocuted? I understand this is probably a really stupid question, but if I can do it myself without getting killed, I can save myself $1200 (the current estimate). A friend of mine has offered to help as he has the aluminum breaker that does 8' lengths. The power company will come out to take the mount off of the house, but I'd be missing a day of work to wait for them. If I can safely piece around the mount, I'd much rather do that, but I would rather not be dead just to save some money.  The thing at the top of the ladder in this picture is what I'm talking about. This is my neighbor's house, so it's pretty much a mirror image of that. AFewBricksShy fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 16:30
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Wait for the power company. Do you really feel like risking 200 amps, give or take, coursing through your body, when it only takes 0.08 amps to be able to kill you dead? Transmission lines, even the ones to your house shouldn't be hosed around with by anybody but light&power
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Feb 21, 2014 16:50
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Ultimate Shrek Fan posted:Wait for the power company. Do you really feel like risking 200 amps, give or take, coursing through your body, when it only takes 0.08 amps to be able to kill you dead? That's pretty much what I figured. I'll do the rest of the house and hold off on that last piece. Thanks
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Feb 21, 2014 16:54
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I can't figure out the wiring for hooking up a pair of PL-L tubes. Help me not burn my apartment building down. I bought a 2x36W e-ballast, supposed to work for either T8's or PL-L's, as well a couple of 2G11 holders. The ballast taunts me with a diagram, but I'm not sure I'm reading it right. Will this wiring not kill me?  (Also - are the paired holes on the sockets shared?)
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Feb 22, 2014 20:30
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StickyNavels posted:I can't figure out the wiring for hooking up a pair of PL-L tubes. Help me not burn my apartment building down. Those wouldn't even turn on the tubes. Yes, the paired holes are shared. hold on, let me whip you up a wiring diagram Here you go. You missed the two holes in the middle of each socket. The reason for grouped holes on the ends like that is to save on junctions. 
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Feb 22, 2014 22:14
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I see! Thanks a bunch, man.
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Feb 22, 2014 23:30
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Okay, now I've cut out all the crazy BX. It seems that one breaker was powering half the upstairs outlets and all the lights through a stupidly complicated set of junction boxes and BX in the basement. Point is that now I have three wires coming down from upstairs and I want to figure out which outlets and lights correspond to which wires. How do I do this?
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Feb 23, 2014 00:18
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Stultus Maximus posted:Point is that now I have three wires coming down from upstairs and I want to figure out which outlets and lights correspond to which wires. How do I do this? Temporarily power them up one at a time and go see what stuff that wasn't powered before is powered now.
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Feb 23, 2014 00:33
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