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tuyop posted:Why doesn't your military cover those costs? That's honestly the worst part of this story. I disagree, and I'm surprised your army is okay with taking on that kind of moral hazard.
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Feb 19, 2014 22:45
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nickutz posted:I disagree, and I'm surprised your army is okay with taking on that kind of moral hazard. You don't even have to be an active member. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/02/18/defence_ministry_mum_on_review_of_moving_expenses_for_retired_forces_personnel.html http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/02/17/dan_menard_defence_department_picked_up_tab_for_disgraced_generals_move_to_uae.html
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Feb 19, 2014 23:11
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nickutz posted:I disagree, and I'm surprised your army is okay with taking on that kind of moral hazard. It makes perfect sense to me. If the army made you choose between getting out and incurring two years' salary in real estate losses in a forced move, they'd lose their senior leadership pretty quickly. Nobody is getting rich off of those benefits, and the army comes out ahead because it's much more cost effective to pay the losses than retrain an NCO or officer because someone decided to leave rather than go into debt. A soldier is a huge investment.
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Feb 19, 2014 23:58
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nickutz posted:I disagree, and I'm surprised your army is okay with taking on that kind of moral hazard. It's not just the army in Canada, it's also the RCMP at the very least. It's a ridiculous policy that is pretty much the definition of moral hazard.
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Feb 20, 2014 00:01
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Is it still true if you completely gut your house, like sell all the piping gut? It does seem pretty insane but the military has more information on average loss versus average training cost. Do they know your home value before they ask you to move?
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Feb 20, 2014 00:12
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tuyop posted:It makes perfect sense to me. If the army made you choose between getting out and incurring two years' salary in real estate losses in a forced move, they'd lose their senior leadership pretty quickly. Nobody is getting rich off of those benefits, and the army comes out ahead because it's much more cost effective to pay the losses than retrain an NCO or officer because someone decided to leave rather than go into debt. A soldier is a huge investment. If relocation were a distinct possibility in anyone's profession, why would you buy a house unless you could afford the consequences of being told/asked to move (i.e. professional athletes)?
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Feb 20, 2014 00:17
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OneWhoKnows posted:If relocation were a distinct possibility in anyone's profession, why would you buy a house unless you could afford the consequences of being told/asked to move (i.e. professional athletes)? I don't understand it myself, that's why I never bought a house. Many people view the relocation package as part of their compensation. Would you prefer if the average cost of the move were distributed to everyone in the military, amortized to the monthly pay?
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Feb 20, 2014 00:52
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I'd rather if they dealt with it like civilians do and the government spent the money elsewhere, it's not like there's too much of it going around. Anyway after this week's mess, I wouldn't be surprised if relocation benefits for the Canadian military were seriously revised.
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Feb 20, 2014 00:57
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tuyop posted:It makes perfect sense to me. If the army made you choose between getting out and incurring two years' salary in real estate losses in a forced move, they'd lose their senior leadership pretty quickly. Nobody is getting rich off of those benefits, and the army comes out ahead because it's much more cost effective to pay the losses than retrain an NCO or officer because someone decided to leave rather than go into debt. A soldier is a huge investment. You can't usually just up and leave though right? The army says you move. You move. If you don't you get the brig. Right?
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Feb 20, 2014 00:57
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Leroy Diplowski posted:I just went with a friend of mine last night to buy a car... and let him use my work van for a couple of weeks... He was finally able to get a clean '96 escort for $900 cash yesterday from some old dude who used to be an airplane mechanic. I choose to read that as, instead of saving for a car, he spent $900 on an 18-year-old hooker whose pimp is a mechanic. That fits better with this thread.
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Feb 20, 2014 00:57
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Leroy Diplowski posted:Joking aside, I get kinda annoyed with people who say "so-and-so shouldn't have kids because they don't make enough money." My response to this is always "So you're a freedom hater?" and if they want to be serious I just suggest that if they're so concerned about it/overpopulation then they shouldn't be against free and highly available birth control. I haven't really looked into it but how many of us are accidents/unplanned again? 90%?
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Feb 20, 2014 01:06
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SpelledBackwards posted:I choose to read that as, instead of saving for a car, he spent $900 on an 18-year-old hooker whose pimp is a mechanic. That fits better with this thread. There's an underexploited business model. Get your oil changed while you get your oil changed!
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Feb 20, 2014 01:08
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Tigntink posted:Living in a major city on the west coast can really really taint your ability to think about the living situations of people in the rest of the country. That attitude is super common in Seattle where almost all the couples I know are in the situation i'm in - one person works a low paying/good benefit gov job - one person works tech. I'm a social worker in the San Francisco Bay Area which is probably why that rubbed me the wrong way. The attitude of "why doesn't your retail manager job have the flexibility that my twitter job has?" just kills me.
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Feb 20, 2014 01:12
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Lowness 72 posted:You can't usually just up and leave though right? The army says you move. You move. If you don't you get the brig. Right? They usually give you a few weeks notice that you'll be moving, which is enough time to put in a request to quit ("request to release"). They can say no until your contract is up, but usually don't and just let you go within 30 days.
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Feb 20, 2014 01:16
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spwrozek posted:Everyone I know in the military that buys a place plans to move soon and hires a management company to rent it out for them. Most only want other army families. My old boss has two places paid off in Killeen TX that he just rents out all the time. Seems to work well. Being a landlord had risks, not sure getting a crazy tenant is exactly bad with money. Parents buying the place maybe not a good idea. Most military people I know we're in for 4 years and got free college and never left America. My sister's married to a guy in the Navy (officer) and they bought a house for their 18 months in a place, which really surprised me. They sold it when they left, I think they made a good bit of money (I remember they got a really good deal on the house when they bought it, and my sister is very financially savvy), having a feeling they'll be doing something similar for the rest of my brother-in-law's career where it makes sense to. Her old job was mostly telecommuting with some international business travel thrown in, she got sick of it and quit and is I think trying to get in to SEO or something else that lets her be similarly mobile. Between that and my BiL's pension when he gets out (and intention to start another career afterwards), I imagine they'll be sitting pretty into retirement. There are tons of financial horror stories about people in the military, but if you play your hand right (e.g. exercise basic financial literacy) you're pretty much set in most cases, especially if you do something that translates well into a civilian/contractor career. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 01:42
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Trilineatus posted:I'm a social worker in the San Francisco Bay Area which is probably why that rubbed me the wrong way. The attitude of "why doesn't your retail manager job have the flexibility that my twitter job has?" just kills me. I'm not only in tech, I'm in high finance. The prevailing attitude around here is that if you're in a low-income job, you deserve it and need to deal with the consequences. I want to stay kind of liberal, but from where I'm sitting a retail worker or a social worker either made a choice to not have significant income, just wasn't good enough to compete in a capitalist economy, or was too stupid to see where their choices would lead. Let's face it, if you're an American born whitey, you already had way more advantages than any of the immigrants who are taking your job in retail, and social work was only ever the sinecure of people with more righteousness or idealism than sense.
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Feb 20, 2014 03:42
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baquerd posted:I'm not only in tech, I'm in high finance. The prevailing attitude around here is that if you're in a low-income job, you deserve it and need to deal with the consequences. I want to stay kind of liberal, but from where I'm sitting a retail worker or a social worker either made a choice to not have significant income, just wasn't good enough to compete in a capitalist economy, or was too stupid to see where their choices would lead. Let's face it, if you're an American born whitey, you already had way more advantages than any of the immigrants who are taking your job in retail, and social work was only ever the sinecure of people with more righteousness or idealism than sense. You are super lame.
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Feb 20, 2014 03:46
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I am OK posted:You are super lame. Yeah, but in exchange for this socialism/togetherness/whatever thing you've got going on, I don't have to work past 35 unless I feel like it.
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Feb 20, 2014 03:48
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baquerd posted:I'm not only in tech, I'm in high finance. The prevailing attitude around here is that if you're in a low-income job, you deserve it and need to deal with the consequences. I want to stay kind of liberal, but from where I'm sitting a retail worker or a social worker either made a choice to not have significant income, just wasn't good enough to compete in a capitalist economy, or was too stupid to see where their choices would lead. Let's face it, if you're an American born whitey, you already had way more advantages than any of the immigrants who are taking your job in retail, and social work was only ever the sinecure of people with more righteousness or idealism than sense. Good thing there's an infinite number of jobs like yours for everyone who can work as hard as you. I find it hard to believe that you are where you are purely because you chose to have a significant income at some point in your life. I can also bet you there are 10 people out there who work harder, and are more skilled than you are, that can't get into a position like yourself because of a random event they couldn't control happening to them. Rudager fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 03:54
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baquerd posted:Yeah, but in exchange for this socialism/togetherness/whatever thing you've got going on, I don't have to work past 35 unless I feel like it. 
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Feb 20, 2014 03:54
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baquerd posted:I'm not only in tech, I'm in high finance. The prevailing attitude around here is that if you're in a low-income job, you deserve it and need to deal with the consequences. I want to stay kind of liberal, but from where I'm sitting a retail worker or a social worker either made a choice to not have significant income, just wasn't good enough to compete in a capitalist economy, or was too stupid to see where their choices would lead. Let's face it, if you're an American born whitey, you already had way more advantages than any of the immigrants who are taking your job in retail, and social work was only ever the sinecure of people with more righteousness or idealism than sense. You're right, the person who takes meager wages to convince starving homeless people that stabbing bankers is a bad idea is really just an idiot with more righteousness and idealism than sense. They should have been a banker too.
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Feb 20, 2014 03:54
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Space Gopher posted:You're right, the person who takes meager wages to convince starving homeless people that stabbing bankers is a bad idea is really just an idiot with more righteousness and idealism than sense. They should have been a banker too. If everybody was a banker nobody would be homeless, duh.
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Feb 20, 2014 03:56
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Rudager posted:Good thing there's an infinite number of jobs like yours for everyone who can work as hard as you. All good points. I worked for 4 years on the night shift, doing 10+ hour days to get ahead. Was I somewhat lucky to get the job in the first place? Sure. Was I lucky to then get ahead? In part. Are there people who are better than me and work harder? No question. At the same time though, I interview dozens of candidates for jobs like the one I started out in, and basically none of them fail to get an offer because they aren't lucky or connected enough, but because they aren't good enough. Space Gopher posted:You're right, the person who takes meager wages to convince starving homeless people that stabbing bankers is a bad idea is really just an idiot with more righteousness and idealism than sense. They should have been a banker too. If a few bankers get stabbed, there are always people willing to take their place. That homeless person will spend a long time working as a slave for the state as a result though. Worth it for them? People who want to be social workers don't make sense to me, but they are keeping the status quo going pretty well.
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Feb 20, 2014 04:05
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baquerd posted:All good points. I worked for 4 years on the night shift, doing 10+ hour days to get ahead. Was I somewhat lucky to get the job in the first place? Sure. Was I lucky to then get ahead? In part. Are there people who are better than me and work harder? No question. At the same time though, I interview dozens of candidates for jobs like the one I started out in, and basically none of them fail to get an offer because they aren't lucky or connected enough, but because they aren't good enough. So what do you think of the writings of Ayn Rand?
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Feb 20, 2014 04:08
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baquerd posted:Yeah, but in exchange for this socialism/togetherness/whatever thing you've got going on, I don't have to work past 35 unless I feel like it. You have to work? That's pathetic, way to not come from money. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 04:13
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FrozenVent posted:So what do you think of the writings of Ayn Rand? People who are bad with money because they weren't educated or didn't have the opportunity are one thing, but people who are presented with the opportunity and turn away from hard work are another. How many of the people who are bad with money in this thread have internet access and enough free time to figure things out if they're reasonably intelligent and have a modicum of willpower? Almost all of them. I think it's fair to say that in a capitalist society, if a person is not interested in learning about the ramifications of capitalism in their lives, they deserve what they get.
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Feb 20, 2014 04:14
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More crazy stories, less dumb rear end posting please.
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Feb 20, 2014 04:16
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So, my wife's sister is a social worker at a county facility. She spends her time living with her parents and spending her money getting taken advantage of paying to "volunteer" in places like the Dominican Republic and then getting kicked out of her volunteer group for mysterious reasons. Great heart, but she has no savings of any kind and spends all her money trying to make a difference in third world countries. It's really sad because if she just took a minute to max our her IRAs, she'd have a comfortable retirement even though making barely over minimum wage.
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Feb 20, 2014 04:21
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She sounds awesome and doing something she loves. Oh the horror... Your posts really suck. E: you forgot to post how she was bad with money, like 5 maxed out credit cards, 2 car payments, a boat, all while making no money or something. You are just being obnoxious about it. Treating people awful for making less money than you. Do you kick the cleaning crew down the stairs at work too? spwrozek fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 04:26
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spwrozek posted:She sounds awesome and doing something she loves. Oh the horror... It's cool, just really bad with money.
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Feb 20, 2014 04:28
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 Wow. For the record, I work for CPS. I am not just "for poor people." I just happen to see a lot of stress and poverty. And the occasional mansion. I love where I live and the work I do and the pay I make for it. It was a choice for me, not the winds of fate like it is for most of my clients. I leveraged a adolescence of poverty into a career that helps others. This is what bootstraps look like you self righteous punk. I love that you don't get to dictate where your taxes go. Why does this feel like déjà vu? Were you the one I had the public liberal arts education argument with earlier in this thread? Content: my not-boyfriend desperately needs a car and has a pile of high end audio equipment in a stack in a closet and won't sell it because "what if the bathroom needs audio too"
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Feb 20, 2014 04:38
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Trilineatus posted:
Yeah, same here. I grew up in a loving trailer park and it made me want to use all the gifts I've been given to help people who need it. I could do all sorts of things in the oil fields and earn two or three times as much money but I'd rather go back into debt than do such a thing. My morality is based on a bit more than my net worth.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:04
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For what it's worth, I grew up on a farm and my parents were public school teachers. It's like there's a fundamental mindset difference that results in a near dichotomy of "I'm better than this and I'm going to make something of myself even though I didn't get any help" and "I'm going to help people because I didn't get any help myself and that wasn't right".
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Feb 20, 2014 05:15
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baquerd posted:For what it's worth, I grew up on a farm and my parents were public school teachers. It's like there's a fundamental mindset difference that results in a near dichotomy of "I'm better than this and I'm going to make something of myself even though I didn't get any help" and "I'm going to help people because I didn't get any help myself and that wasn't right". Cool, bro. gently caress off to D&D or something. This is a thread for telling stories about people who are lovely with money.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:16
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baquerd posted:It's like there's a fundamental mindset difference that results in a near dichotomy of "I'm better than this and I'm going to make something of myself even though I didn't get any help" and "I'm going to help people because I didn't get any help myself and that wasn't right". It's more like you're a lovely poster and person, if you really believe what you're typing.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:22
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Did I miss something, or is baquerd just conjuring up that all social workers are poor thing out of nowhere?
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Feb 20, 2014 05:30
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Harry posted:Did I miss something, or is baquerd just conjuring up that all social workers are poor thing out of nowhere? Yeah, social workers in the Bay Area make more money than anywhere in California. It's pretty sweet.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:31
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Harry posted:Did I miss something, or is baquerd just conjuring up that all social workers are poor thing out of nowhere? I don't think I said that, but it looks like social workers go from like $40k-120k or so in the Bay Area. That's poverty level to middle-middle class over there - the top end is what a fresh faced 20-21 year old developer makes. Look guys, I really don't want to derail this any further. We have different definitions of what it means to be bad with money, and I'll stick to making fun of the people who are mortgaging their future for a Hummer from here on out. Deal?
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Feb 20, 2014 05:38
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You really are just spewing nonsense at this point.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:45
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baquerd posted:I don't think I said that, but it looks like social workers go from like $40k-120k or so in the Bay Area. That's poverty level to middle-middle class over there - the top end is what a fresh faced 20-21 year old developer makes. I'm going step in here to call you a selfish bastard because you finally sound committed to not needing the last word. We'll see if you can accept it quietly because deep down we all know you are proud of the fact.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:49
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