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Sundae posted:I used to work in central France (4 months per year as part of my USA-based R&D job, training our EU manufacturing crew on new products and overseeing the first batches of new campaigns) and absolutely ADORED it while I was there. I am, per my parents and grandparents, a dirty socialist for not hating the country the way a proper American ought to. Did you speak French, and if not, how hard was it to get by? I daydream sometimes about my wife taking a teaching or research position in France, and me somehow finding a way to practice law despite having a US/common law legal background... but she doesn't speak French at all.
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Feb 19, 2014 17:18
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ibntumart posted:Did you speak French, and if not, how hard was it to get by? I daydream sometimes about my wife taking a teaching or research position in France, and me somehow finding a way to practice law despite having a US/common law legal background... but she doesn't speak French at all. I spoke just enough of the language to get myself into trouble.  Really, I could get around just fine, order from menus, tell what people were trying to get me to do and get my point across to others. Small talk was tough, though - I just couldn't keep up with the pace of conversation. It also helped that I work in pharmaceuticals, so most of my co-workers there were highly educated and knew English better than I knew French. They made up for my stupidity rather nicely.My overall experience was that if you had a basic understanding (three years of courses, in my case), put in the effort to try to speak French, and were willing to make fun of yourself in the process ("Excuse me... I'm a stupid American and can't figure out how to ________. Can you help me please?"), most people would bend over backward to help you. I think it would be difficult if you had no French at all, honestly. Tony Montana posted:French awesomeness It's really something, isn't it? I was in central France, about 30km east of Tours in a town called Amboise on the Loire River. Holy loving wine, Batman. I loved every second of those trips, and Paris is loving amazing from a tourist perspective. I was never in Paris for longer than a few days at a time, but it was still incredible for the limited time I was there. The best restaurant I've ever eaten in, bar none, was Le Lion D'Or in Amboise. I took my wife back there as part of our honeymoon, and she spent most of the dinner laughing from how good the food was. Like, "my brain can't believe what my taste buds are telling it" laughter. Best meal ever.
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Feb 19, 2014 18:31
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My honeymoon in September was sort of all over France and yes it is indeed awesome and another place with basically no obsese people even though the food is ah-maze-ing. We stayed in the south for 5 days and then took 2 days to drive to Paris stopping at some UNESCO World heritage sites along the way (France has the second highest number of UNESCO heritage sites after China). Paris is pretty hectic, but actually once you kind of figure it out it's actually quite easy to get around. Basically, there are big plazas or I guess "places" throughout the city and if you can figure how to to get to each, you basically can get around the city. Man I think about that trip all of the time. I'd move to France in a heatbeat.
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Feb 19, 2014 18:52
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I'm getting a bit obsessed with French women, probably because my experience is limited and I only see the smoky eyes and sultry tones  Here in the Italian Alpine village I'm living in there is a place that sells pizza and snacks and it's owned by a French woman in her early 30s. She is slender and her eyes dark and .. christ. I said I was having a hard time learning Italian and she said to me 'you don't learn another language in class, you learn it on the pillow. You need to find a lover and she will teach you' I coughed into my coke
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Feb 19, 2014 19:27
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Worked extra hard to finish a project a week earlier, and now it's been sitting in limbo for over a week because no one has gotten around to reviewing it...
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Feb 19, 2014 20:39
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Tony Montana posted:France Speaking as a Briton, we really don't hate the French these days. Sure we lob some casual racism their way now and again, but it's more out of habit than anything else. As you say, the reasons for the 'hate' are historical - they are our nearest neighbours and both of our countries have been around in one way or another for the best part of 2,000 years. Who do you think most of our wars were fought against? Tony Montana posted:Chamonix Please tell me you took the cable car to the top of L'AIguille du Midi. Also, for the guy asking about speaking French, learning basic French is pretty straight forward and most of the people I've encountered in France tend to respect you just for making the attempt, because so many people don't bother. If you can learn enough to be able to say "please", "thank you", enquire about prices and order things off a menu then you're lightyears ahead of most tourists (particularly Americans) and they'll often take pity on you and switch to English if you're struggling, even in some of the very rural/remote locations I've been to. The only place I've been where that didn't happen was an incredibly remote (and beautiful) campsite buried in the French Alps and that was only because the elderly owner didn't know English, but we still managed to figure things out. Conversely, if you don't bother to make the effort you'll sometimes be greeted with a stony silence or a barrage of deliberately incomprehensible French - the French are quite nationalistic about maintaining their language. rolleyes fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 21:36
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rolleyes posted:Speaking as a Briton, we really don't hate the French these days. Sure we lob some casual racism their way now and again, but it's more out of habit than anything else. As you say, the reasons for the 'hate' are historical - they are our nearest neighbours and both of our countries have been around in one way or another for the best part of 2,000 years. Who do you think most of our wars were fought against? I guess that's the point, it's just a habit. It's a habit we've inherited too and it's done without thinking or knowing. It goes both ways too, Euros often will sneer and say 'the English.. LOL.. how about your cold fish and chips and they're all pasty white' which is complete bullshit too, in London there is some of the best eating in all of Europe. My Italian friend here who goes to work in England frequently was just telling me how good the coffee is in London, and this is an Italian, mind you. It's all based in old ideas which I openly challenge now, because it's bullshit. You won't win many friends doing it in certain circles though, as I'm sure you'd know. Haha for thread content, this is a good thing not to start airing your opinions about in the office! I'm not about to rock up into my new UK office and meet my English colleagues and start telling them how the French have things squared away! rolleyes posted:Please tell me you took the cable car to the top of L'AIguille du Midi. Absolutely and man, the air was thin up there. Felt really dizzy for ages. The cable cars themselves are incredible and climb up what looks like an impossibly vertical and long cable.
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Feb 19, 2014 22:35
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Yeah it was ridiculous on the ride up. Look out the window and there's a goddamn glacier just there, and that's about halfway up. For those unfamiliar with it, L'AIguille du Midi is a peak next to Mont Blanc and is 12,600ft in the air. The Mont Blanc tunnel runs directly beneath it and it's also a cable car interchange; you can ride the cable car up to the very top of it from Chamonix and get another cable car into Italy. People going skydiving frequently jump out of planes at altitudes lower than that. No wonder it took me so long to climb the last set of stairs, but luckily I didn't get the dizzyness - the only way to tell if you're going to be ok or not is to try it though. It's also a very strange meeting of two types of people. You get me, the tourist (and there's a cafe halfway up for god's sake), but it's also a very serious mountain which people climb. So there I was standing next to one of the cliff access points whilst a bunch of proper climbers - ropes, ice axes, crampons, helmets, the lot - hauled themselves over the edge and pretty much collapsed in exhaustion. Incidentally next to most of these access points are signs which, in typically French fashion, matter of factly state something along the lines of "Attention skiers, high mountain area: no marked runs, no avalanche control, no safety markers, no ski patrols. You are now proceeding at your own risk". What's to stop you going past that point? Nothing. You could literally walk out another 10 meters, fall 600 feet down a sheer ice slope and be dead in 30 minutes from exposure if the fall didn't kill you on the way. It's a refreshing change from the over-the-top double-lock everything approach we have in the UK. Frankly I prefer the French way. e: One nice touch I remembered is that in the elevator up to the very highest point, there is what looks like a floor indicator. Except it doesn't count floors; it counts meters above sea level. 
rolleyes fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Feb 19, 2014 |
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Feb 19, 2014 23:14
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I followed the Tour de France in 2012. France is wonderful. The language is exciting.  Content: I may be a bit slow on this realisation but its finally hit me. I cannot change management practices. I don't know for sure that 'my way' would be better. All I should focus on is improving myself. Play the game, be the best, get out and try somewhere new. Swink fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 00:12
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COO pulled me into the office to have me show him the magnum opus I've created for his sales team. He was thoroughly impressed and said it was absolutely phenomenal... followed by "yeah, we really don't have any more projects for you to do after this, so we're leaning toward having Friday be your last day here." Yep, two days' notice. Thanks for that. Granted he and three other department heads are supposedly writing me letters of recommendation for the phenomenal work that I've done over the six months I've been there but really? Really? Time to start studying up on web analytics and working from home. No corporate ever again.
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Feb 20, 2014 08:13
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^^^ That's cold, man. People who CC-bomb you. Goddamnit. I just got copied into an enormous email chain with nothing more than "Copying rolleyes as he may be able to offer some advice". Bonus fun: - The email chain has another email chain as an attachment - The email at the bottom of the chain dates from the 6th Jan Normally I'm fairly accommodating about this sort of thing, but this one got "If you'd like my advice then please let me know what it is exactly that you'd like my advice about." as a response. I don't have time to dig through a month and a half of email to find out what you need from me when you could take 30 seconds to just ask!
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Feb 20, 2014 15:24
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rolleyes posted:People who CC-bomb you. Goddamnit. My favorite is the old classic... Step #1 - Someone accidentally CC's an e-mail to a large internal mailing list. Step #2 - Rather than just delete it, someone uses Reply All to say he's the wrong recipient. Step #3 - 3,500 people use Reply All to tell everyone else to stop using Reply All. Step #4 - Go to Step #2.
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Feb 20, 2014 15:47
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Oh yeah, reply-all storms are a whole other pain in the rear end. The thing which winds me up about the situation I just posed about is that clearly they need my help, but apparently don't value my time enough to actually put together 10 or 20 words which say what they want help with. Sorry, just shoving 40 emails at me and saying "please advise" doesn't somehow mean that you've shifted responsibility from you to me.
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Feb 20, 2014 15:52
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This brings to mind an article I read recently that had me cracking up a fair bit.
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Feb 20, 2014 16:10
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Sundae posted:My favorite is the old classic... Sundae posted:My favorite is the old classic... You forgot step 5 - Someone replies the next day starting it all over.
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Feb 20, 2014 16:19
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Armchair Calvinist posted:COO pulled me into the office to have me show him the magnum opus I've created for his sales team. He was thoroughly impressed and said it was absolutely phenomenal... followed by "yeah, we really don't have any more projects for you to do after this, so we're leaning toward having Friday be your last day here." this is really lovely. Good for you for doing a good job anyway though.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:12
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No it's not. He's an intern. They're done finding him things to do so he can earn some basic experience. He needs to go and find a real job now. They're doing him a favor letting him be there at all, if he doesn't understand this then who cares anyway? Let him enter the work market and apply for a permanent position and learn exactly how valuable he and his work is. rolleyes posted:People who CC-bomb you. Goddamnit. Man, no kidding. PMs were the worst for me, they'd remember your name because you're not an idiot and then out of the blue you'd get this huge chain with 'please advise' tacked on the end. You'd just respond with 'my workflow is carefully managed, please approach my manager to request my time' and they'd go away. As there were defined account management people it was ok to totally ignore anything directly from the client.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:30
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Tony Montana posted:No it's not. He's an intern. They're done finding him things to do so he can earn some basic experience. He needs to go and find a real job now. They're doing him a favor letting him be there at all, if he doesn't understand this then who cares anyway? Let him enter the work market and apply for a permanent position and learn exactly how valuable he and his work is. He's a paid intern, there aren't any favors being done here.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:54
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Solkanar512 posted:He's a paid intern, there aren't any favors being done here. Why does the corp need to hire interns? 1) Test drive talent before offering them a position. Position not being offered here, either because there is no position to offer or the corp has decided this individual isn't what they're looking for. You're getting paid to go on a trial period effectively, which is nice for you and in many industries it is recommended to offer to work for free for a period if you really want in. 2) Take advantage of cheap labour. This is double edged though because anyone giving away their time as an intern can only bring basic skills to the table. If you have a project or a backlog of simple tasks this can be a good way to get them done at a lower cost than having a permanent employee do them. We'd all know, though, the corp doesn't care too much about what you did in college and what you feel you should be doing and if there is some lovely poo poo to be shoveled you can easily be asked to do it despite your degrees and past experience. So why go through the HR cost of bringing on an intern for a period and adding one more to the headcount when you can just ask Bob to do that poo poo? Again, the benefit is to the intern as they can gain that initial experience that is so hard to get. 3) Kids are good with technology. They probably know Excel better than some of the accounting staff or can help marketing with the Facebook page. This is good for the corp, but you might end up with some 20 year old that genuinely believes he has more right to be on staff than the permanents because he was brought up using Facebook and Excel. You can always pay a consultant to do this for you, but it's probably cheaper to have the kid and just otherwise generally ignore him. Sound familiar? This is perhaps the one example I can think of where the intern actually earns his place and it just puts you on even keel with everyone else.. except the thing you do we can hire literally anyone your age to do it for us for peanuts. You'll need to be pretty awesome politically then as it literally comes down to who I liked having around more. 4) Gain new perspectives on the org. If you intern is really cool and presents his ideas in an adult and non-confrontational way you may get a insight into how a younger generation sees your corp. If your intern is in marketing and working with creative types this could have real value. If you intern is in accounting or most of the other fundamentals of business then the best way to do this stuff was established long ago and the kid needs to learn this best practice so he can help out (sapping your time teaching him), he's not going to have brilliant ideas about how to redesign double entry bookkeeping. This one is flaky, when you hear how much experienced and highly educated permanent staff are effectively ignored when trying to elicit change (often because the corp is bound by things that it can't explain and doesn't have to) it is difficult to imagine the intern doing this. You're in a weak position as in intern, by definition. The corp owes you nothing and even pays you for your time which is of questionable value to them. It's just how it is. Intern for just long enough so you can stop being an intern, which is the purpose of it and move on to the next stage. Being a thoroughly ignored but relatively safe permanent employee.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:26
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I'm not sure why you're giving me a list of why someone would hire a paid intern, but I notice that none of the reasons are "as an act of charity", so I guess we agree?
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Feb 20, 2014 18:38
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Tony Montana posted:Let me guess.. Canadian? Hey, now. Don't hate on us in the retail thread. I've done my study and learnt those valuable skills, and yet have spent the last four years stuck in retail. Not everyone who works retail is there because they "shirked" off important work. Some of us just have terrible luck. Also, not all of us have the time or money to go travelling on a whim. I'm finally entering the "corporate world", but I doubt it'll be anytime soon before I can even think about doing all of those wonderful things I was promised I'd be able to do when I got my degree.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:51
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I'm not saying you're wrong but it's still pretty loving dick to give anybody two days' notice no matter what your status is. They never gave me a set date for the end of the contract-- I was originally supposed to be there for two or so months but the work I did to redefine the marketing department was hailed by every department head and so they kept me six. Most were saying it was a shoe-in at the company since everybody benefited daily from the work I did-- I wasn't just an Excel junkie. I was originally going to be hired for their brand management position but they ended up going with an internal hire that stepped up prior to them sending me an offer letter. They said I killed the interview so hard that they wanted me back in any way they could, so they gave me an internship they put out for a master's student, part-time, as a full time position as a market research analyst instead. Paid internship, sure, but only in title. Jobs in San Diego are hard to come by if you're not in finance or biotech. Gonna be spending most of my time searching for jobs in the bay area at this point I think. Also gonna learn Python and PHP as well just to have some more skills to bring to the table.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:53
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YF19pilot posted:Hey, now. Don't hate on us in the retail thread. I've done my study and learnt those valuable skills, and yet have spent the last four years stuck in retail. Not everyone who works retail is there because they "shirked" off important work. Some of us just have terrible luck. Sorry, mate, I didn't mean it like that. Surely you don't consider yourself a career retail worker, as you've just stated. You'll get back on the horse, just keep swinging and you gotta connect sometime. Armchair Calvinist posted:I'm not saying you're wrong but it's still pretty loving dick to give anybody two days' notice no matter what your status is. Yep, and I sympathize. In Australia you'd be a casual work which means no notice is required at all. You can't give a permanent employee 2 days notice because it's contractually agreed that way and laws protect you. What if that boss that told you was told the day before by his boss to cut you immediately? That boss was told by finance 2 days before they've gotta find X in the budget? Do they explain all this to you? No, they just cut you loose because that's all they're on the hook for. You've had a valuable experience, I want it all in writing. Anything not in writing and contractually agreed between us can disappear like a puff of smoke in an instant. If when you ask for them to formalize something they've offered you and they say no, you have just been told how much they actually value you and what they're offering. Sorry mate, it sucks, but next time remember unless you got it in writing then it less than worthless because it puts ideas in your head that you can't back up. Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 18:56
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I got a glowing annual performance review and my merit raise today-- which was less than one month's rent annually before taxes.  Last year I got over $2k for the same score.Then I somehow ran over my own foot with my office chair.
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Feb 20, 2014 19:23
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Between this and your wonderful assumption that everyone who doesn't have a corporate job is an unskilled moron, I'm starting to think you're just another tech wanker who thinks he's better than everyone else because he "beat" the system What I'm saying is suck corporate dick on your own time
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Feb 20, 2014 19:58
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Solkanar512 posted:I'm not sure why you're giving me a list of why someone would hire a paid intern, but I notice that none of the reasons are "as an act of charity", so I guess we agree? It's a list of reasons that aren't really all that beneficial to the corp. You also include expenses to onboard the intern and lost productivity from staff training him. I'm sure he's a bright guy and adds value, the point is he is just in a weak position. That means they'll do the bare minimum they have to for him. Don't also assume the 2 days notice was someone being a dick, as I said above that's just how it could have gone down way above the guy that eventually told him. edit: \/\/ ..jesus.. Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 20:41
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I am currently stuck in a three-hour mandatory "town hall" meeting. They have played two pre-recorded motivational videos so far... one set to the B52s "Love Shack" and the other to that lovely Katy Perry song about fireworks. I agree wholeheartedly with the message: we're well and proper hosed, and it's going to be beautiful when this whole thing explodes. At least there are no elephants or giraffes. Edit: In reality, the message appears to be more of that convoluted "We're number one except we're in dire straits so work harder, but be proud of our quality because we're number one even though we suck." Oh holy poo poo. "You should APPRECIATE being overworked because it means you're all important! A bad attitude is a baaaad habit, and I guarantee you that everyone at work with a bad attitude has a bad life outside of work, too." -- Our company president. Sundae fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 20:42
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Sundae posted:Oh holy poo poo. Easy to say when you're making millions of dollars while allowing the company and people you're responsible for burn to the ground around you. What an absolute douche bag.
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Feb 20, 2014 21:40
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The meeting is finally over. I don't know if the high point was the motivational song being Love Shack or if it was when our president tried to transition from talking about our excellent safety record into a moment of silence for someone at our Puerto Rico site who died in an electrical accident. Either way, this place continues to amaze me.
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Feb 20, 2014 22:02
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As an update for my post from a few weeks ago about being demoted back to another position because I was good at it and we were in need of help, the guy that took over my client list is finding out just how much of a pain in the rear end some of them are, so I got a "Wow...your customers are REALLY complex, what the hell?" today. To make matters better/funnier, we've been doing a special project for one customer for over a year now, they've always been really happy with the results, etc. At the beginning of the year, the woman in charge of it that I dealt with all the time left for another job, and someone new took over. The new person is absolutely out of her mind and requiring a re-write and reconfiguration of everything we do for them. And she wants it done before Monday. I almost feel bad for the guy because she sounds like a lunatic on the phone. Meanwhile I met with a recruiter this week and have a (hopefully) promising lead on a job that's: 1. Way closer to home (my drive is about 45 mins - 1 hour one way, new place would be about 15 mins and in the same state, saving me on gas, time, and taxes) 2. A stable, 8 hour only position. As someone who's been 24/7 customer support for my clients for like 3 years now, it just sounds really nice 3. Has opportunities to get promotions/move around, compared to where I am right now where I've basically hit my ceiling for promotions 4. Pays way, way more money Fingers. loving. Crossed. Its still not a job I want to do long term, but its something that will hold me over very nicely if I get it.
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Feb 20, 2014 22:12
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Tony Montana posted:Don't also assume the 2 days notice was someone being a dick It's the organization being a dick.
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Feb 20, 2014 22:14
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Tony Montana posted:It's a list of reasons that aren't really all that beneficial to the corp. You also include expenses to onboard the intern and lost productivity from staff training him. I'm sure he's a bright guy and adds value, the point is he is just in a weak position. That means they'll do the bare minimum they have to for him. The point of this thread is to describe the lovely things companies do because it's beneficial to the corp. No one here is under any false impression that companies give a poo poo about their workers or will try their hardest to do their best by them. We're here to vent about how lovely it is when they gently caress over their employees. I get why they would let him go with just two days notice, and I get that if he thought he might get a job he should somehow get that in writing and he's an idiot for not somehow doing so [actually no that one just seems uncalled for] but it also sucks.
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Feb 21, 2014 04:24
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Yeah Tony, that was a bit over the line, sorry to say. You have a lot of great insights to offer (and have), but telling someone who feels that they've done a great job, and from all accounts has, that essentially they've no right to be upset about being let go with two days notice is pretty lovely. No matter who it is being laid off, that's a dick move. What kind of person doesn't at least have a thought occur to them along the lines of "how is this [low paid] person going to pay the bills in [x] days?"
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Feb 21, 2014 04:47
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Two days notice (without an associated 12 days severance) is illegal here so congrats on defending that, I guess. Our office (and country) productivity has dropped significantly over the last couple of days. Canada shuts right down when hockey or curling is on. I bought a case of beer to take to work tomorrow because at 11AM we're putting the CAN/USA game on the projector in the boardroom.
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Feb 21, 2014 04:53
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You guys are being awfully harsh on Tony who, to his credit, has been consistently horrible since he started posting. According to Tony, manager know everything, always make the right decisions for the right reasons and nothing that they or an organization does is ever wrong. He also holds this opinion while working within regions with some of the strongest worker protection laws so if something bad happens to an employee, well gently caress you. But, as I said, at least he's consistent.
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Feb 21, 2014 05:37
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I just did the math, my "raise" comes out to 18 cents an hour after taxes. After a week of work I can buy a large value meal at McDonald's!
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Feb 21, 2014 05:40
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:I just did the math, my "raise" comes out to 18 cents an hour after taxes. Did you ever find an employment lawyer to go over your contract with its break clause? Your workplace seems like the very model of the corporate meatgrinder.
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Feb 21, 2014 10:38
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TouchyMcFeely posted:You guys are being awfully harsh on Tony who, to his credit, has been consistently horrible since he started posting. Oh man, Tony's the corporate version of The Lord Bude in the retail thread? Including being Australian and wanting to fellate work practices?
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Feb 21, 2014 11:01
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He's not an idiot for not getting it in writing, when you are that stage you actually believe that people will do what they say. You're not stupid for thinking that, it just comes with experience to think otherwise. I said to him it sucked, I was just trying to offer something more than 'yeah those loving suits, man'. HiroProtagonist posted:What kind of person doesn't at least have a thought occur to them along the lines of "how is this [low paid] person going to pay the bills in [x] days?" That's what a casual worker is. yeah it sucks, you can hear that from anyone, your mum or your friends.. but I just wanted to add that the corp doesn't think this way at all because it only thinks in terms of it's legal responsibilities. Right, wrong.. whatever.. that's how it is. Next internship offered or whatever think about this because, I agree, it's bullshit how they can dump you and they will. TouchyMcFeely: hey buddy! 
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Feb 21, 2014 12:07
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Tony Montana posted:He's not an idiot for not getting it in writing, when you are that stage you actually believe that people will do what they say. You're not stupid for thinking that, it just comes with experience to think otherwise. I said to him it sucked, I was just trying to offer something more than 'yeah those loving suits, man'. You told us all the company was doing him a favor by hiring him in the first place. Come on.
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Feb 21, 2014 13:30
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