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Basically despite a long storied history of sci-fi being a platform for religion/humanism the modern sci-fi fan gets fairly loving mad at anything other than  descriptions of space ship engines, deal w/ it atheism parables, and singularity proselytizing in their sci-fi programming.
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Feb 20, 2014 07:36
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I might give BSG another watch, maybe the finale wasn't as bad as everyone convinced me it was back when it aired. I mean, I liked the LOST finale, possibly in the same fashion....of SCIENCE! posted:Basically despite a long storied history of sci-fi being a platform for religion/humanism the modern sci-fi fan gets fairly loving mad at anything other than  plot at them and have characters vomit hard sci-fi technobabble all day, that's why sci-fi is treated like a joke. I want a loving goddamn dense as gently caress character study in a sci-fi setting, if only to piss off sci-fi fans. Like a True Detective in space. True Space Detective.
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Feb 20, 2014 08:04
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Sober posted:I might give BSG another watch, maybe the finale wasn't as bad as everyone convinced me it was back when it aired. I mean, I liked the LOST finale, possibly in the same fashion. Have you read the True Detective thread? It's approaching early LOST days in there but going the other way. Everyone is so convinced this grounded character study is going to suddenly be crawling with Elder Gods out of nowhere. BSG talked about God's from minute 1. Hell, in season 1 or early two Six said she was an angel sent by God to help guide Gaius . Turns out to be true, despite gritty realism dude's wet dream.
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Feb 20, 2014 08:14
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Battlestar Galactica, both versions of the show, always had very strong Mormon themes running through it as I recall. People hoping for a theologically sterile show were watching the wrong thing.
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Feb 20, 2014 08:36
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feedmyleg posted:Have you read the True Detective thread? It's approaching early LOST days in there but going the other way. Everyone is so convinced this grounded character study is going to suddenly be crawling with Elder Gods out of nowhere. BSG talked about God's from minute 1. Hell, in season 1 or early two Six said she was an angel sent by God to help guide Gaius . Turns out to be true, despite gritty realism dude's wet dream.
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Feb 20, 2014 09:01
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feedmyleg posted:Why did people hate the ending of Battlestar Galactica? I never understood it and would like to hear someone's explanation based on actual reactions. The first time around I liked it, but on my rewatch with the ending in mind I realized it couldn't have been telegraphed more and the show really couldn't have ended any other way. The mysteries are literally and explicitly stated and meanings implied 1/3 of the way through. It was an incredibly religious series all along so I can't imagine that's it. What's the deal? God / an angel did it. Also the Cylons have a plan citation needed
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Feb 20, 2014 09:22
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Finally got around to watching True Detective and it's pretty great, but my god episode 4 was a masterpiece. The last 15 minutes were just some loving fantastic television, also McConaughey is killing it every scene.
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Feb 20, 2014 10:39
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Lugaloco posted:Finally got around to watching True Detective and it's pretty great, but my god episode 4 was a masterpiece. The last 15 minutes were just some loving fantastic television, also McConaughey is killing it every scene. That was pretty much the best directing I've ever seen in a TV show, yes. Even if you don't like the show, everyone should watch that, because it's brilliant.
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Feb 20, 2014 10:59
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Yeah, I hate BSG's ending. I don't care about the religious stuff, that all made sense. But the sudden thematic switch to 'technology is bad! ' is awful. Abandoning all their tech like that is a lovely decision Lee makes and apparently thousands of People just agree with. And then there's the final montage. It turns the show from having interesting allegorical stuff to say about terrorism and racism and fear of the other into 'watch out! Your iPhone is gonna kill you! ' Plus, the character endings seem sort of awkward, like Baltar's only directly referencing poo poo we learned in the episode itself, or Lee getting the most generic 'human' ending without any real reference to his own character development- 'I can climb mountains now ' or whatever. And Kara just sort of... Stops with a half assed angel explanation. Oh, and it's filled with pointless silly imagery like Lee chasing the pigeon. It's pretty awful.
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Feb 20, 2014 12:24
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I consider Exodus Part 2 the end of the series, and since the original airings, I haven't watched anything beyond that point. I put the last season and a half of BSG in the same purgatory as Episodes 1-3 in Star Wars, or Star Trek V. It might exist, but it's not part of my personal canon. It may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think Moore had a clear vision on the end of BSG, and if he did, then I call into question how he got lucky with the first 2 seasons. The latter third of that show is just bad, IMHO. The religious themes and overtones never pinged by interest. I just wanted more pew-pew and space politics.
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Feb 20, 2014 13:35
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Tuxedo Jack posted:I consider Exodus Part 2 the end of the series, and since the original airings, I haven't watched anything beyond that point. I put the last season and a half of BSG in the same purgatory as Episodes 1-3 in Star Wars, or Star Trek V. It might exist, but it's not part of my personal canon. I heard that Moore wanted God to show up at the end of season 1, played by the original Starbuck until the producers shut him down. Can't seem to find any sources so I'm probably just crazy.
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Feb 20, 2014 14:01
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Basically despite a long storied history of sci-fi being a platform for religion/humanism the modern sci-fi fan gets fairly loving mad at anything other than I think it may be more that people have a problem with the execution of the religious themes within the show, how they ended up overriding every other element of the story (exactly as it did in Moore's previous work), and how in the end the message in this particular science fiction story is quote:You can't reconcile life with technology, because of reasons, everyone back to the stone age. Also dancing frakking robots. And the revelation that there never was a plan at all, because the writers lost track of what they were doing in the rush to make more Starbuck misery porn.
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Feb 20, 2014 14:25
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Starbuck exploded into an angel humanist stories at their best
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Feb 20, 2014 14:34
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Wandle Cax posted:And because, oh how unrealistic to abandon all technology like that and live off the land that makes no sense, they would all die etc. This, it's just unfathomably stupid. Also the whole Cylon plan being uh, has anyone figured out what their plan even was? (and minor nit-picks) Trying to straw man the religious stuff as why people don't like it is being very disingenuous, it's not like the show wasn't full of that sort of thing right from the word go. Really the finale wouldn't have been so disappointing if it hadn't already had a perfectly good end point half a season earlier.
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Feb 20, 2014 15:22
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Maybe we should talk about something less controversial, like whether Israel has a right to the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem.
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Feb 20, 2014 15:24
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I was fine with the BSG ending because it was absolutely hysterical. Just have to roll with it. Kind of like how the flying punch was the best part of the Lost finale.
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Feb 20, 2014 15:41
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Nate RFB posted:Kind of like how the flying punch was the best part of the Lost finale. God cork. Jesus, Lost ended bad.
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Feb 20, 2014 16:09
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I had absolutely no problems with it.
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Feb 20, 2014 16:21
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feedmyleg posted:Why did people hate the ending of Battlestar Galactica? I never understood it and would like to hear someone's explanation based on actual reactions. The first time around I liked it, but on my rewatch with the ending in mind I realized it couldn't have been telegraphed more and the show really couldn't have ended any other way. The mysteries are literally and explicitly stated and meanings implied 1/3 of the way through. It was an incredibly religious series all along so I can't imagine that's it. What's the deal? Thought up a paragraph or so of reasons why not only the last episode, but the show mid-way through the third season, completely lost me. But I think this is a far more succinct way to put it. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:God / an angel did it. Also the Cylons have a plan citation needed
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Feb 20, 2014 16:40
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I have nothing against the BSG finale but the plan thing really bothered me. Why did they put that in EVERY loving EPISODE when it's clear they had no idea where it was going? And then title something "The Plan" and have it not have any whiff of a plan?
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Feb 20, 2014 16:44
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The problem with Lost/BSG is that the theology and metaphysics were tepid at best. Any "plan" was just a macguffin to keep you watching, while the particular elements were just poo poo they were throwing against the wall to see if it would stick.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:05
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I think I just heard someone scream really loud. I think it came from Pennsylvania.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:08
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I didn't like the way LOST ended, but I really liked the last episode. Does that make sense?
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Feb 20, 2014 17:11
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precision posted:Does that make sense? Yeah, of course. A lot of people respond to the kind of saccharine bullshit the finale was serving.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:17
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I loved the BSG Mini Series, went into S1 with high expectations that were met. I do remember thinking "I love this show, it's far better than expected. Not sure I really care for this religious element though, I hope that gets dropped..." So much for that!
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Feb 20, 2014 17:18
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It's the curse of Moore, he gets bored quickly and then pisses theology all over the scripts until you're left with a reeking soggy mess and the story is an inky-piss stain on the carpet.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:41
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:It's the curse of Moore, he gets bored quickly and then pisses theology all over the scripts until you're left with a reeking soggy mess. In BSG and DS9 religon was part of the story before he even got there.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:42
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Yes it was, but the story was also part of the story. Until he got bored.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:42
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:It's the curse of Moore, he gets bored quickly and then pisses theology all over the scripts until you're left with a reeking soggy mess and the story is an inky-piss stain on the carpet. So does that mean the the virus thing in Helix exists because god did it? I haven't watched anything past the terrible pilot but I bet the answer is yes.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:52
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:So does that mean the the virus thing in Helix exists because god did it? I haven't watched anything past the terrible pilot but I bet the answer is yes. Just for the record, Helix wan't created by Ron Moore, but rather by newcomer Cameron Porsandeh. Moore hasn't had a (credited) hand in any scripts so far. He's likely too busy adapting the Outlander novels for Starz to be doing anything more than giving advice and occasionally dealing with the suits.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:02
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I'm not sure anyone's involved in making Helix.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:26
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Lost rules though.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:45
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precision posted:I didn't like the way LOST ended, but I really liked the last episode. Other than maybe the god cork, the island mysteries seemed mostly resolved, it was just that you had to look for clues rather than have a character vomit exposition.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:53
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Lost had plenty of answers. It's just that the answers turned out to be really dumb. "It's magic!"
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Feb 20, 2014 19:35
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I'm rewatching Angel for the first time since it aired with my boyfriend who hasn't seen much of it. We just finished season 2 and good drat is the Pylea arc good. He was kinda iffy on the series through the end of "Dark but not quite Angelus evil" Angel, and then Cordy got sent to Pylea and it became let's finish the season and start the next one. And the premier of season three ends with such a bomb shell there were jaws hitting floors. The boyfriend keeps talking about how practical Wesley is and how he'll do anything for the greater good, and it's all I can do to not scream "You have no idea how right you are!"
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Feb 20, 2014 19:43
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Nate RFB posted:Lost had plenty of answers. It's just that the answers turned out to be really dumb. "It's magic!" To be fair once that frozen donkey wheel showed up erryone should have known the island was magic.
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Feb 20, 2014 20:03
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cool kids inc. posted:I'm rewatching Angel for the first time since it aired with my boyfriend who hasn't seen much of it. We just finished season 2 and good drat is the Pylea arc good. There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb (or however it is spelled) is the highlight of pre-season 5 Angel for me. The Host/Lorne is incredible and it upsets me that the actor died so young.
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Feb 20, 2014 20:05
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scary ghost dog posted:To be fair once that frozen donkey wheel showed up erryone should have known the island was magic. a frozen donkey wheel is science you cant just wizard yourself out of the donkey age
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Feb 20, 2014 20:07
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Yeah, I for one never minded religion in BSG. In fact it was the main reason I started watching since I'm not a sci fi fan and wasn't drawn in by that. But I don't care if God is an actual cast member with his own opening credits. Deus Ex Machina is boring and unsatisfying any way you slice it. And gently caress abandoning all technology. That was just moronic, Lee. And the Cylons were monsters who committed genocide. They don't have hearts of gold.
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Feb 20, 2014 20:08
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I will forgive all this BSG/LOST bullshit if someone posts the gif of fat Lee saluting a cheeseburger.
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Feb 20, 2014 20:13
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