|
Hogge Wild posted:After reading Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey/Maturin series I tested the gallon of small beer a day. At the start I got a small buzz, but later nothing. Though it made the physical labor more pleasant. Later I tried it while being inside all day, and it required an effort to drink it all. A gallon of small beer of 2.8% abv has about 1200 kcal. So it is about half of required daily calories.
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 10:45 |
|
|
Slavvy posted:"Intended to fly from warships" so you had to land it backwards on a ship floating on waves. There is no way that could possibly be a bad idea. An idea that we could totally resurrect now though. Watching a Little Bird autonomously land itself on a moving deck really is a sight.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 00:40
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Slavvy posted:"Intended to fly from warships" so you had to land it backwards on a ship floating on waves. There is no way that could possibly be a bad idea. Reading the wikipedia article about it I assumed the "Survivors" section would be about test pilots who survived landing rather than surviving planes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 01:16
|
|
|
WEEDLORDBONERHEGEL posted:Did you make the small beer yourself? No, but I'm planning on starting that hobby at summer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 02:00
|
|
|
ArchangeI posted:Not a problem with WWI planes, pilots didn't have parachutes. Not entirely true. Observation balloon crews all wore parachutes. For most of the war, airplane crews did not wear chutes, but in 1918 the Germans introduced a standard-issue parachute. Granted, it didn't work a third of the time, but it was better than nothing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 02:03
|
|
|
Three former Auschwitz guards detained. Huh I have mixed feelings about this. One of them would have only been like 18/19 at the time. Should this live with them 70 years later? (maybe it should?)
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 02:38
|
|
|
Not getting caught for 70 years doesn't really excuse directly participating in genocide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 02:49
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Three former Auschwitz guards detained. They could be making GBS threads themselves in a corner with Alzheimer's and I'd still be happy with it. Some of the worst sadistic shits were under 35.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 03:31
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Three former Auschwitz guards detained.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 04:57
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:No, but I'm planning on starting that hobby at summer. Koramei posted:Three former Auschwitz guards detained. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Feb 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 06:05
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Should this live with them 70 years later? (maybe it should?) Yes. Why wouldn't it? Have the victims of Auschwitz been brought back to life since?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 06:15
|
|
|
Yeah I mean, there's a statute of limitations on a lot of things, but genocide isn't one of them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 06:33
|
|
|
Do they go to prison, or do they get the Old Fuckers Clause? Gonna say it, 70 years is plenty of time to be a different person. Doesn't mean their crimes just went away, but they've stewed on what they've done for a long, long time. There was a camp guard that was caught in Canada a while back. afaik he was still a frothing nazi. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Feb 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 07:01
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Huh I have mixed feelings about this. One of them would have only been like 18/19 at the time. Should this live with them 70 years later? (maybe it should?) They were guards at loving Auschwitz, not some twelve year olds tossed a Panzerfaust each and told to march off to the Seelow Heights. Of course it should live with them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 08:37
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Three former Auschwitz guards detained. Irma Grese was 20 when she started working at Auschwitz and was executed within 6 months of her capture so age isn't really a mitigating factor and there's no statute of limitations on loving genocide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 08:50
|
|
|
ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:They were guards at loving Auschwitz, not some twelve year olds tossed a Panzerfaust each and told to march off to the Seelow Heights. Of course it should live with them. I don't know if I buy that, at least without an explanation of the selection process for said guards. If they were just random conscripts that were getting posted to prison camp duty, then I don't see a huge difference between them and some kid at Seelow.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 08:52
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:I don't know if I buy that, at least without an explanation of the selection process for said guards. If they were just random conscripts that were getting posted to prison camp duty, then I don't see a huge difference between them and some kid at Seelow. If that's the case they should be able to prove it. Seriously, it's literally Auschwitz. Why would you possibly expect there to be a statue of limitations on that poo poo?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 08:52
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:I don't know if I buy that, at least without an explanation of the selection process for said guards. If they were just random conscripts that were getting posted to prison camp duty, then I don't see a huge difference between them and some kid at Seelow. The guards were all SS which was a volunteer service prior to 1943, when the majority of the murders took place.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 08:55
|
|
|
ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:If that's the case they should be able to prove it. Well, the burden of proof should be on the prosecution. But I don't really object to them being put on trial. uPen posted:The guards were all SS which was a volunteer service prior to 1943, when the majority of the murders took place. That doesn't exactly bode well for their innocence then.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 08:55
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:How big units? 40 ml (1.35 oz)
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 08:58
|
|
|
uPen posted:The guards were all SS which was a volunteer service prior to 1943, when the majority of the murders took place. Not just a volunteer service, given the racial purity/ideology requirements you had to be a pretty committed Nazi to get into the SS.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 09:56
|
|
|
Don't know the minimum age for joining the SS but the youngest would have been turning 18 in 1944 if my maths is right. And not speaking to this case in particular but assuming being conscripted in 1944, if my choice is sold to me as guard duty vs eastern front, even if I heard rumours about exactly what I'd be guarding its not exactly a nice choice to have to make. Finally, to be topical, is this a good place to discuss responsibility and industrial scale war crime? I mean where can you draw that line? It takes 1,000's if not 10,000's or even 100,000's to commit atrocities in a systematic and industrialised fashion. You've got people who you can clearly point to and say with little doubt that they were in a major part responsible such as the leadership both of the (relevant parts?) Nazi party and of the local infrastructure and on the other end you've got a huge number of people who played a tiny part where its more questionable. The people who made Zyklon B in factories, people that repaired the railway lines to the gas chambers and so on. How do we as a society draw the line? Or to make it historical, how have we in the past and how has this gone down?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 10:45
|
|
|
These guys are lucky that got to hang around for so long...and won't even face the punishment they deserve...like these guys.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 12:44
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Do any modern militaries still do alcohol rations? Well, this article was in the Guardian earlier in the week and says that Italian field rations in Afghanistan contain a shot of Grappa.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 12:52
|
|
|
gfanikf posted:These guys are lucky that got to hang around for so long...and won't even face the punishment they deserve...like these guys. What's the story here?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 16:32
|
|
|
KildarX posted:What's the story here? US Army troops executing German SS guards at Dachau Concentration Camp, Germany, 29 Apr 1945
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
Presumably they're being executed. And wow, I didn't expect people to be upset over them getting arrested (I'm not either) but I didn't think there'd be practically universal condemnation here. Especially after the reaction to the Red Army's rape march across Europe a few days ago. If someone's 18/19 when they were a guard at Auschwitz in 1944/45 (were people under 18 ever used in the SS?), they were like 12/13 at the start of WW2. They were like seven when Hitler rose to power. They lived most of their lives up to that point being indoctrinated by their states' propaganda. Obviously that doesn't remove all of their culpability, but can everybody in this thread really say they would have been so much better- not necessarily to be literally guarding a death camp, but at least a participant in some sense- in a similar situation? 'Cause I don't think I can. Excepting that I'd have been, you know, dead. and sort of related, how do people here think child soldiers should be treated?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
Koramei posted:And wow, I didn't expect people to be upset over them getting arrested (I'm not either) but I didn't think there'd be practically universal condemnation here. Especially after the reaction to the Red Army's rape march across Europe a few days ago. That line of thinking has not only been completely exploded by modern research (after the US swallowed it to some extent during the Cold War) but it has, let's say, a...distinctive origin. I am straining to come up with a charitable interpretation for what you just said. The things that happen when you sack a city are bad. So is abetting genocide. It's possible to believe both these things are bad at the same time, and to condemn them both.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:17
|
|
|
I feel the same way about this as I did about assassinating Osama Bin Laden. Yep, they're bad, and they should pay for crimes, but it's always a bit spooky when a bunch of people are out for blood and rejoicing at somebody's death. And when almost an entire country is united in some kind of horrible enterprise, how much blood is on the hands of those who just fall into line and don't make waves? SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Feb 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:19
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Presumably they're being executed. I dunno, what's the current thought on the Nuremberg defense?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:19
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:I feel the same way about this as I did about assassinating Osama Bin Laden. Yep, they're bad, and they should pay for crimes, but it's always a bit spooky when a bunch of people are out for blood and rejoicing at somebody's death.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
Hegel I'm comparing them 'cause it was a topic that was brought up just a few days ago and people's reactions to that were about the opposite of what they are here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
WEEDLORDBONERHEGEL posted:In God's name tell me you do not believe that the choice is between the Red Army's "hordes" and Nazism. People had all kinds of explanations about the Socialist People's Red Army doing horrific things that were directly supported by Glorious Leader Stalin, and now are out for blood on 3 Nazi's.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:28
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Hegel I'm comparing them 'cause it was a topic that was brought up just a few days ago and people's reactions to that were about the opposite of what they are here. In my opinion, the different reactions are probably because it's possible to make a distinction (whether correct or not in these cases) between a sack and deliberate genocide. We also aren't being asked to judge any specific people who were involved in the first. WoodrowSkillson posted:People had all kinds of explanations about the Socialist People's Red Army doing horrific things that were directly supported by Glorious Leader Stalin, and now are out for blood on 3 Nazi's. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Feb 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
Yeah I didn't mean to give you that reaction, sorry. Really I'm toeing the line to the point that I'm a bit uncomfortable with it too.  This is a subject I find interesting though; that is, culpability of combatants- and also differences in how we perceive events in history (or for that matter, other cultures) with modern sensibilities.It's also not a subject that seems to come up very often.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Presumably they're being executed. It is a very difficult question. On the one hand, I think that most people in that situation, myself included, would have wound up following the same path. On the other hand, it is a crime, and must be punished accordingly. It isn't all that different from looking at poor urban youth in the US; they follow a path largely laid out for them years before as a result of decisions made by people far removed from their lives. The situation may explain why they commit crimes, but it can't excuse the personal responsibility.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
WEEDLORDBONERHEGEL posted:I doubt anyone in this thread is a huge fan of Glorious Leader Stalin. I actually was confusing that discussion with some other ones unrelated to this and misrepresented the discussion in this thread.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 18:06
|
|
|
bewbies posted:It is a very difficult question. On the one hand, I think that most people in that situation, myself included, would have wound up following the same path. On the other hand, it is a crime, and must be punished accordingly. The vast majority of people did not end up in the SS. You had to be a special kind of true believer in the Nazi cause to get in and everyone who did deserves all the condemnation the world can muster.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
Even very serious perpetrators don't have to be necessarily punished in such a harsh manner, but I don't think the concept of reconciliation entered anybody's mind in 1945.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 10:45 |
|
|
SS members working at a concentration camp is a really specific volunteer job that makes you a willing participant in what are obviously atrocities. No doubt there were some really really bad guys in the Red Army, some certainly as monstrous as a given SS member. They don't represent most of the Red Army though. Most of those soldiers were regular dudes who just got conscripted, had to soldier to survive, or in some cases even wanted to fight for their country. That's why it's easy, at least for me, to condemn SS members so much more quickly than the Red Army. They're way easier to put into a box.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2014 18:10
|
|