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OneEightHundred posted:Nevermind that even while it's current, it provides an obvious way to compete with it by just making cheap knockoffs and undercutting them.
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Feb 20, 2014 23:30
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Lets talk about the morality of games 
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Feb 21, 2014 00:13
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Gimbal lock posted:Not working on WatchDogs though, I ended up going on a smaller project after Black Flag. Gotta take a breather from huge projects sometimes. If it's one of the Funhouse projects, I can understand. I almost came back to work on one of the unannounced ones, and actually might never have left if I had been assigned to Child of Light.
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Feb 21, 2014 00:17
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Really, F2P is just an evolution of J2ME. The only reason early cellphones had such a huge rush of games to play is they all were on 30-day rentals. The bulk of the money came from people forgetting to cancel a subscription to those games. You know, because everyone knew those games were rentals, right? Those companies were only sustainable because of ignorant and forgetful consumers. It was completely trashy.
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Feb 21, 2014 00:17
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Jan posted:If it's one of the Funhouse projects, I can understand. I almost came back to work on one of the unannounced ones, and actually might never have left if I had been assigned to Child of Light. It's unannounced, and thank goodness for this project because many of the other options might have been too rough, too quickly. These are trying times for the industry, and even despite that, I might have still considered doing my own thing anyway! that said, Ubi barely ever firing anybody is a double edged sword sometimes. For a myriad of reasons. People feel a little safer for it though, so there's some value in that.
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Feb 21, 2014 00:47
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Not that I ever accidentally racked up four-digit internet bills not realizing that playing early Simutronics games on Prodigy were billing at like $2.99 per hour, even if you only logged in for a minute..... 
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Feb 21, 2014 00:54
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le capitan posted:Lets talk about the morality of games I work on a game which is essentially kiddy-cocaine. 
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Feb 21, 2014 01:20
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Aliginge posted:I work on a game which is essentially kiddy-cocaine. <--- Worked on Disney Infinity.
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Feb 21, 2014 01:29
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mutata posted:<--- Worked on Disney Infinity. Y... you monster
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Feb 21, 2014 01:30
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I make edutainment. I'm basically a saint.
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Feb 21, 2014 02:47
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Chernabog posted:I make edutainment. I'm basically a saint. How is that stability wise? Do you have crunches and poo poo to deal with or is it basically 9-5?
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Feb 21, 2014 02:49
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Hey everyone, it's coming up close to Game Developer's Conference again, and I'm just taking this time to invite anyone who'll be over San Francisco way to drop in on the 5th Annual Pre-Expo Goon Meet the Tuesday of the show: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3610374 It's always good fun, and everyone's welcome, so RSVP (so we know how big to make the reservation) and come on by! 
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Feb 21, 2014 08:09
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xgalaxy posted:How is that stability wise? Do you have crunches and poo poo to deal with or is it basically 9-5? It's probably pretty stable, I'm working for a government institution and the scope of the games is small so there aren't budget issues. The downside is that everything moves at a snail's pace, I have been waiting for months to get programmers and we are just about to hire them next week. I don't really expect there to be crunches. We have about 3-4 months to create a simple game, but I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of months I come back to this comment and laugh at how naive I was. The pay isn't great, but there's potential for my career. On one side I get complete control over the creative aspects of the games, which is extremely rare in the "regular" games industry. So at worst I will get great design and production experience. On the other hand I am making lots of connections and I think I could eventually branch out into medical and/or advertising games. Chernabog fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 08:14
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theflyingorc posted:Wow. That's even more unethical than I thought. There are likely people out there who have blown their life savings, 1 dollar at a time, on getting retries in Candy Crush.
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Feb 21, 2014 08:37
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A friend of mine with cash to burn (He sold his company to one of the big three for nine figures) is a serial whale in F2P games. He buys and enjoys regular retail games as well, having developed quite a few of them himself, but every time I see him it's a new F2P he's tossed an enormous wad of cash on. He says the first thing he does when he finds a game he likes is to just go and buy literally everything they have in the store, because he just never wants to be told he can't play part of the game. He refers to it as "Washing dishes", the grinding of gameplay to unlock stuff they're offering microtransactions for. He just wants to get into the game as quickly and deeply as possible. Just thought I'd share the thoughts of an example of the elusive and lucrative F2P "whale" that I know personally.
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Feb 21, 2014 08:47
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Please direct him to my newest game, thanks in advance On that note, does everyone take releases of their games this hard? Puzzle Craft's release wasn't nearly this nerve wracking for me - probably since I came in at the tail-end of the project and didn't do that much work on it. But now when it's a project that I've been on the longest, starting from the earliest prototypes I spend so much time on different pages/forums just  away to gauge the reaction
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Feb 21, 2014 10:57
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Aliginge posted:Problem comes when I start playing a game which is built from the ground up to incorporate power and balance into a time-investment or pay-now scheme. Invest hundreds of hours to unlock a thing or buy it now - especially when it comes to powerful things which give a player an advantage - is what I object to. The best way to get really long retention is and always will be to make something someone loves playing every day. Long retention is always value, even if they aren't a spender. This is idealist utopian future F2P stuff, but the only way it's going to get there is for talented devs who understand games to drive it. Play F2P games and understand which bits of them suck. Make ones that are better, and take their entire playerbase because your game is more fun for /everyone/ on the spending curve. This is unnecessarily ranty, but i'm just tired of having a lot of devs around me who are going "Oh look, now we have to do another feature that is a blatant bit of empty monetisation" and it's like "Did you engage at all with that discussion? Did you fight for something you wanted instead that you think would help make the game be more profitable?". Make better games because you understand games and gamers in a deeper way than the person who wants you to do something "Because Candy Crush does it". Destroy them with lasers.
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Feb 21, 2014 11:40
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MissMarple posted:See this is what I don't understand. If you don't like those things you will just not play them. Your potential value is not being utilized. There are "enough" people who want a fair game where power and balance are not built into it as a time-investment or pay-now scheme that someone will cater to that market, because the "YOLO SPEND MONEY KILL BITCHES EVERYDAY WHERE DID MY $5000 GO?" crowd will have just a few devs fighting each other to capture them with mega-budgets. I had a boss who told my team to do a bunch of stuff because candy crush did it. It became a running joke, but he was a step below VP and we weren't. If given the choice to do something marginally dumb because my boss saw something he liked/was afraid of last week and getting fired, I'll probably just throw it together and keep my job.
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Feb 21, 2014 16:37
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When we were making early Facebook games, we were running ads and A/B testing copy. We based all of our original ad copy on Zynga's at the time because "Surely, Zynga has optimized the hell out of this and we'd be fools not to leverage it!" Fast forward to after we'd been acquired by Zynga and I was talking to some PM about running ads and told them how we used to just copy theirs because we figured it was well-tested. "Nah, we didn't really test much back then."
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Feb 21, 2014 17:07
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The lesson to learn from Flappy Bird (though it's not like we didn't already know this) is that companies like Zynga and King aren't where they are because they design the best games. They just happened to get really, really lucky while having a monetization strategy in place. You can make enough money from one mega hit to sustain a lot of less-profitable projects for a really long time, and you can even transform into a studio that's ultimately profitable without that flagship revenue stream, but one thing is almost certain: you're never going to have that kind of hit again. That's what's amusing to me about companies like that going public. The people running them are either incredibly delusional about their own ability to create hit games, or are amazingly cynical about how little investors understand the market. Maybe a little of both. Anyway, I don't worry too much about F2P. It's never going to completely take over the industry, because for everyone who it appeals to (whales & people with little money) there are people who reject that premise. It's just an expansion of the market and has is not really cannibalizing non-F2P titles in any significant way. I think it's actually a really cool time to be in the industry, just because there's so much variety in what you can do while still being profitable.
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Feb 21, 2014 17:54
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Paniolo posted:but one thing is almost certain: you're never going to have that kind of hit again. I've heard numerous people say that with small timewaster games, it's important to have a plan in case you accidentally create the next Angry Birds. You probably won't, but you need to be ready if you do!
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Feb 21, 2014 18:21
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theflyingorc posted:I've heard numerous people say that with small timewaster games, it's important to have a plan in case you accidentally create the next Angry Birds. You probably won't, but you need to be ready if you do! Cash out and retire?
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Feb 21, 2014 18:48
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Hughlander posted:Cash out and retire? Oh, you should definitely cash out as close to peak as you can, but you need to be ready to ramp up your server capabilities, handle merchandising, know where to get a PR person, have a basic plan for continued updates - Basically, mo money mo problems.
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Feb 21, 2014 18:52
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theflyingorc posted:Popcap had 3 hits, but your point is true for most situations. Point being the "lessons" that may have applied in the "premium" casual space 4 years ago don't necessarily apply to the hit of the week free-to-play culture we have in the mobile space now, that's seeping into other areas. Those Popcap games were polished as gently caress and existed to give you a large amount of bang for your initial buck. Angry Birds (eventually?) added the Eagle stuff for real money to roll through something you might be having trouble with, but it had a model of free updates adding more content on top of your initial purchase price, which wasn't 69p/99c. vvvv Okay, but the post you were quoting was, so... Akuma fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 21:10
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Akuma posted:But neither Popcap's 3 hits (Bejeweled, Peggle, and Plants vs Zombies?) or Angry Birds were F2P when they hit popularity. Isn't that a case of conflating "free to play" with "casual"? The latest Angry Birds was/is $60 on next gen consoles! And I don't have any numbers so I'm making this up, but my gut tells me Plants vs Zombies 2 (the F2P one) hasn't done as well for Popcap as the original, paid game. edit: ^^I ain't mad or nothin'. I understand why you thought that, just clarifying. theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 21:13
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theflyingorc posted:Popcap had 3 hits, but your point is true for most situations. ^ *Cough* retaining an attorney.
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Feb 21, 2014 22:08
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Akuma posted:And I don't have any numbers so I'm making this up, but my gut tells me Plants vs Zombies 2 (the F2P one) hasn't done as well for Popcap as the original, paid game. ... which is why I don't buy the blue sky "F2P doesn't have to be bad!" talk. People keep trying to make nice F2P, and it keeps bombing, while the exploitive stuff wins out. We've found a few variants of F2P that are nice (ie. LoL model), but that's kinda it thus far, and the problem isn't "but if you just made a REALLY good game and then did F2P but not as penny pinching."
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Feb 21, 2014 22:51
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Shalinor posted:... which is why I don't buy the blue sky "F2P doesn't have to be bad!" talk. People keep trying to make nice F2P, and it keeps bombing, while the exploitive stuff wins out. We've found a few variants of F2P that are nice (ie. LoL model), but that's kinda it thus far, and the problem isn't "but if you just made a REALLY good game and then did F2P but not as penny pinching."
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Feb 21, 2014 23:09
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Gameloft are having worldwide layoffs, I was unfortunately in the batch but feeling pretty good about it actually since I was ready to move on for some time now. Does anyone have a plug in the Montréal area? I'm a 3D artist mostly looking to get into environments/props/vehicles/weapons. I've got some of my stuff online here for those interested to take a look! http://odddzy.cghub.com/images/ And http://polycritters.carbonmade.com/
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Feb 21, 2014 23:30
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theflyingorc posted:Popcap had 3 hits, but your point is true for most situations. They eventually all had mobile ports but all of their titles were PC games first. I guess I didn't really clarify that I was specifically talking about the social and mobile markets.
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Feb 22, 2014 02:26
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Paniolo posted:They eventually all had mobile ports but all of their titles were PC games first. I guess I didn't really clarify that I was specifically talking about the social and mobile markets. And all of the games weren't original. They all had a basis on existing games or mechanics, but were EXTREMELY well polished.
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Feb 22, 2014 02:45
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M3wThr33 posted:And all of the games weren't original. They all had a basis on existing games or mechanics, but were EXTREMELY well polished. Too much originality in the mobile space counts as a sort of barrier to entry, which everyone knows will kill you. The whole point of freemium-as-king, IAP, etc., is to eliminate that barrier to entry. If your core mechanics are that barrier you're pretty hosed.
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Feb 22, 2014 19:58
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After one and three-quarters of a year, I've been told at the end of March I'll be living la vida unemployed. I'm young and full of gumption so I'm planning on doing the "starving indie" thing until my savings or my self-confidence runs out. With that in mind, I've got a few questions! I'm guessing that mobile development is a dead end? I was looking at weird indie games like Hoplite / Collosatron and wondering if it was even remotely possible to break even on a critically-acclaimed non-casual game? The idea of easily accessible gameplay that a lot of people can play is appealing to me, but I'm guessing that it probably isn't financially viable since it seems that any attempts at indie iOS development sink without a trace. Success stories like Tiny Tower or 10000000 seem to be outliers. The alternative is something more like Steam Greenlight / Kickstarter, though that seems more of a long term game plan (both in terms of creating enough of a game to pitch, and then successfully managing / following through on the project) than something suited for what I'll be doing which is less "making my dream project" than "exploring a number of game concepts for half a year". I've yet to hit the point in my lifecycle where I pupate into an indie house with indie friends which limits somewhat the scope. I guess I could always put up a zombie rogue-like-like action platformer sandbox RPG inspired by Dark Souls on KS and run with the money There's the standard checklist that I'm going through, mostly related to insurance / unemployment / getting expensive dental procedures while I'm covered, etc. Does anyone have any other tips? I have a lot of respect for all the people on SA who are hacking it, to whatever extent they're hacking it!
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Feb 24, 2014 20:19
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RoboCicero posted:I'm guessing that mobile development is a dead end? Steam is currently your better bet, but as you say, it's tricky - Steam games tend to be longer, bigger bets. Really hard to pull out of your butt right after a layoff with no lead time. Hopefully A Chaos Machine will chime in here, because he's making some decent waves with smaller games outside of mobile. I know Adult Swim is part of the equation, but beyond that, not my space.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:35
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And if you go with a Steam greenlight indie bundle be sure not to change your mind about giving out Steam keys AFTER selling copies of your game on indie bundles. http://www.gamezebo.com/news/2014/02/24/if-you-promise-steam-keys-you%E2%80%99d-better-have-steam-keys
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Feb 24, 2014 21:55
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Milestone day here at Inverted Axis as we've hit our initial projected staff size. We'll be rolling forward with eight employees for a few months and things are moving forward well.
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Feb 25, 2014 00:35
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Shalinor posted:Dead, no. Out of your budget range, yes. Mobile has hit that point in its life cycle where, super rare outlier success stories aside, the successes come from big marketing / user acquisition spends on highly polished games. Little cheaper games have really poor odds of success these days. Wait is that me? If so Bitmap Brothers curse your children's children. Here's what I know about small games outside of mobile: Flash sponsorships are still somewhat of a thing, but basically all the sponsors with big budgets are scrambling to have mobile portals. People pay out of the rear end for HTML5 games that are mobile friendly. I doubt it'll last very long though. A lot of the people who used to make a killing with flash games moved to HTML5 and still make a killing through their contacts with sponsors. For new people it's getting really, really difficult. I think we're kind of at the point where things like Patreon, itch.io, and straight up offering games or early access through your own site are becoming more interesting than web game licensing. The amount of insecurity / will-this-gamble-pay-off is the same but at least you get to have more creative freedom. On another note: My game was selected by the Indie Megabooth to be shown at GDC. I've never been to an expo or had to deal with everything I'm dealing with now and I'd love to hear about people's experiences with this kind of thing, GDC or otherwise. GUIDE ME WISE ONES I BESEECH YOU
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Feb 25, 2014 02:21
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RoboCicero posted:After one and three-quarters of a year, I've been told at the end of March I'll be living la vida unemployed. I'm young and full of gumption so I'm planning on doing the "starving indie" thing until my savings or my self-confidence runs out. With that in mind, I've got a few questions! You may also want to consider the possibility of getting on the consoles as well. PSN for Vita and PS4, WiiWare, ID@Xbox.
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Feb 25, 2014 02:48
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xgalaxy posted:You may also want to consider the possibility of getting on the consoles as well. PSN for Vita and PS4, WiiWare, ID@Xbox. Sony's got their pick of the indie litter and isn't bothering much with PubFund deals at this point, and Microsoft is still extremely confused about the whole thing even if their internal indie-focused team is trying super hard and means well. So don't go in expecting a funded deal, or really even guaranteed promotion / store placement. the chaos engine posted:Wait is that me? If so Bitmap Brothers curse your children's children. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 02:57
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That sounds reasonable! Yeah, as far as things go this is more a way for me to splash around in the kiddy pool of having time and being self-directed rather than something I think will springboard into indie riches. However, it's really good for me to know what's ahead of me in the event I do feel like I've got a hold of something I can't let go. Patreon is something that looks really cool! I think its working out somewhat for a lot of creative types just because they do weirder, less immediately markable products and more they constantly churn out interesting experiences. The two things I remember having Patreons for are a couple of web comics and Smooth McGroove, that video game acapella guy. I can only imagine that it'd be a good fit for similar projects on the indie game spectrum (increpare?) M3wThr33 posted:And if you go with a Steam greenlight indie bundle be sure not to change your mind about giving out Steam keys AFTER selling copies of your game on indie bundles. 
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Feb 25, 2014 03:24
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