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TriffTshngo
Mar 28, 2010

Don't get it twisted who your enemies are.

crankdatbatman posted:

It's hard to tell the difference between the two

For Goku and Gohan it's basically "deeper scowl, hair is much more upright, lighting bolts in aura" although in Vegeta's case the only difference is the lightning bolts.

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EvilTobaccoExec
Dec 22, 2003

Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot, so my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts!

crankdatbatman posted:

To be honest I always found Super Saiyan 2 to be kind of underwhelming. It's hard to tell the difference between the two, and it's basically "wow Gohan is suddenly a lot stronger than he was before!".

I thought everyone had already gone level 2 with all the awe "level beyond a super sayian?" and then I was like oh a new level when future Trunks went beyond by bulking up, so when Gohan went beyond those levels it was like uh cool so he's a... forth level super sayian... that's sorta underwhelming.

the lesson is don't let goku come up with your naming scheme. drat, vegeta take a stand

Esroc
May 31, 2010

Goku would be ashamed of you.

EvilTobaccoExec posted:

I thought everyone had already gone level 2 with all the awe "level beyond a super sayian?" and then I was like oh a new level when future Trunks went beyond by bulking up, so when Gohan went beyond those levels it was like uh cool so he's a... forth level super sayian... that's sorta underwhelming.

the lesson is don't let goku come up with your naming scheme. drat, vegeta take a stand

In their defense the bulky forms weren't new transformations. Just "Maximum Power" versions of the original SSj. Much akin to Freiza's "Maximum Power" where he also bulked up like the Hulk. SSj2 is actually a whole new form in and of itself and theoretically also has a bulked up version. As does SSj3, theoretically.

In fact that's always been my theory on Broly's power. He's a "Maximum Power" SSj/SSj2, just he somehow overcame the speed hit that comes with having muscles with their own muscles.

ElBrak
Aug 24, 2004

"Muerte, buen compinche. Muerte."
I think its been established through the series that you could increase your muscle mass at will with Ki, you just sacrificed your speed. Like Piccolo has bulked up an arm moments before punching someone a few times in the series, and Master Roshi had that thing where he would bulk up before throwing a Kamehameha.

Mister Roboto
Jun 15, 2009

I SWING BY AUNT MAY's
FOR A SHOWER AND A
BITE, MOST NATURAL
THING IN THE WORLD,
ASSUMING SHE'S
NOT HOME...

...AND I
FIND HER IN BED
WITH MY
FATHER, AND THE
TWO OF THEM
ARE...ARE...

...AAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

ElBrak posted:

I think its been established through the series that you could increase your muscle mass at will with Ki, you just sacrificed your speed. Like Piccolo has bulked up an arm moments before punching someone a few times in the series, and Master Roshi had that thing where he would bulk up before throwing a Kamehameha.

Which makes sense why Trunks didn't know that: he lived in a time where there were no other Jedis to train him other than Gohan.

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

EvilTobaccoExec posted:

I thought everyone had already gone level 2 with all the awe "level beyond a super sayian?" and then I was like oh a new level when future Trunks went beyond by bulking up, so when Gohan went beyond those levels it was like uh cool so he's a... forth level super sayian... that's sorta underwhelming.

the lesson is don't let goku come up with your naming scheme. drat, vegeta take a stand

I think this was actually the case when it was airing in Japan. You'd get some weirdly translated stuff about how Gohan when he fought cell was the 5th super saiyan form because they counted the base form, the post timechamber vegeta and trunks "ascended" form, the bulky form, and the perma-super saiyan form Gohan and Goku had as sequentially different things.

Super Saiyan 5 Gohan.

Soulcleaver
Sep 25, 2007

Murderer

Two Tone Shoes posted:

Super Saiyan 5 Gohan.
You mean... Dragonball AF was right!? :derp:

StrifeHira
Nov 7, 2012

I'll remind you that I have a very large stick.
Speaking of AF-level insanity, guess what Dragon Ball Heroes just got!~





That's right!
Neko Majin gently caress yeah!

Caros
May 14, 2008

StrifeHira posted:

Speaking of AF-level insanity, guess what Dragon Ball Heroes just got!~





That's right!
Neko Majin gently caress yeah!

S....super Saiyan 3 Vegetto?

Damnit, now my inner teenager needs new pants.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn
Man, SS3 Vegito/Vegetto/Vegerot could probably blow up the universe by sneezing. He might even be able to figure out his name!

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Was Vegito considered stronger than Gogeta?

Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?



Tae posted:

Was Vegito considered stronger than Gogeta?
I think so yes; then again I am not sure because half my memories are playground rumormill type things.

I do know the whole Vegito is "baseform power * baseform power" while Gogeta is "power+power" can't be right. :v:

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
The Potara earrings were flat out stated to be more powerful than the Fusion technique. The only drawback to Potara was you could never unfuse.

Mister Roboto
Jun 15, 2009

I SWING BY AUNT MAY's
FOR A SHOWER AND A
BITE, MOST NATURAL
THING IN THE WORLD,
ASSUMING SHE'S
NOT HOME...

...AND I
FIND HER IN BED
WITH MY
FATHER, AND THE
TWO OF THEM
ARE...ARE...

...AAAAAAAAUUUUGH!
Toriyama also said he had to invent the Potara since the Fusion movie already made Vegeta and Goku do the dance.

Tribladeofchaos
Jul 2, 2008

IT'S SHOWTIME!

StrifeHira posted:

Speaking of AF-level insanity, guess what Dragon Ball Heroes just got!~





That's right!
Neko Majin gently caress yeah!

Is...Is that a female Super Saiyan? Man so much for Toriyama not knowing how to make them look good.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

Caros posted:

S....super Saiyan 3 Vegetto?

Damnit, now my inner teenager needs new pants.

Everyone is Super Saiyan 3 in Heroes, including Future Trunks.

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Heroes is a weird game with a lot of bizarre What-If stuff that honestly would make all of the DBZ games a lot more enjoyable to play through.

Squallege
Jan 7, 2006

No greater good, no just cause

Grimey Drawer

Sex_Ferguson posted:

Heroes is a weird game with a lot of bizarre What-If stuff that honestly would make all of the DBZ games a lot more enjoyable to play through.

I agree and am always bewildered about how people get all pissy about the game's version of the original story. Who cares about the original story, throw something new at us!

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011

Squallege posted:

I agree and am always bewildered about how people get all pissy about the game's version of the original story. Who cares about the original story, throw something new at us!

Especially considering we must be on more than a hundred Dragon Ball games now. The what-if scenarios were something that Budokai 3 and the later Tenkaichi games did really well, from what I remember.

Rhonne
Feb 13, 2012

The one What-If scenario that I remember from the games was the one where Raditz lost to Piccolo after landing on Earth and lost his memories. He ended up living with Goku and Gohan and they because a happy family until he got his memories back and realized that Vegeta and Nappa were on their way. He sacrificed himself by crashing his ship into theirs before they ever made it to the planet. :smith:

Rhonne fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Feb 22, 2014

Momomo
Dec 26, 2009

Dont judge me, I design your manhole

Rhonne posted:

The one What-If scenario that I remember from the games was the one where Raditz lost to Piccolo after landing on Earth and lost his memories. He ended up living with Goku and Gohan and they because a happy family until he got his memories back and realized that Vegeta and Nappa were on their way. He sacrificed himself by crashing his ship into theirs before they ever made it to the planet. :smith:

This is the saddest thing I've ever heard. :(

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 24, 2008

SICK LOOT!
Supersonic Warriors 2 has a what-if story wherein Broly gets amnesia and becomes Hercule's kung fu partner and they become kung fu action hero buddies.

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Raging Blast has a what-if where Vegeta becomes the leader of the Ginyu Force and Videl becomes Piccolo's student, but is so enthusiastic it becomes too much for Piccolo.

StrifeHira
Nov 7, 2012

I'll remind you that I have a very large stick.
Man there is a whole what-if GAME, focused on Future Trunks' "Buu Saga". It's... really kinda a bore at times but notable for Mystic/Kaioshin-powerup Future Gohan.

Tribladeofchaos posted:

Is...Is that a female Super Saiyan? Man so much for Toriyama not knowing how to make them look good.

Heroes has had them for quite a while now.
For reference, here's what the current character avatars look like:
http://imgur.com/JNxEJQ4
http://imgur.com/Pb5JVRM

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax
Original Android, Majin, and Freeza people was a stroke of genius.

Mister Roboto
Jun 15, 2009

I SWING BY AUNT MAY's
FOR A SHOWER AND A
BITE, MOST NATURAL
THING IN THE WORLD,
ASSUMING SHE'S
NOT HOME...

...AND I
FIND HER IN BED
WITH MY
FATHER, AND THE
TWO OF THEM
ARE...ARE...

...AAAAAAAAUUUUGH!
The DB universe has great potential to expand even more, like Marvel or DC. They just don't do it that way in the Japanese industry.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

alcharagia posted:

Supersonic Warriors 2 has a what-if story wherein Broly gets amnesia and becomes Hercule's kung fu partner and they become kung fu action hero buddies.

Holy gently caress, I need to beat that game.

Mister Roboto
Jun 15, 2009

I SWING BY AUNT MAY's
FOR A SHOWER AND A
BITE, MOST NATURAL
THING IN THE WORLD,
ASSUMING SHE'S
NOT HOME...

...AND I
FIND HER IN BED
WITH MY
FATHER, AND THE
TWO OF THEM
ARE...ARE...

...AAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

Stairmaster posted:

Holy gently caress, I need to beat that game.

Game? I'd pay a lot of cash to see that adapted to film.

Tribladeofchaos
Jul 2, 2008

IT'S SHOWTIME!

StrifeHira posted:

Man there is a whole what-if GAME, focused on Future Trunks' "Buu Saga". It's... really kinda a bore at times but notable for Mystic/Kaioshin-powerup Future Gohan.


Heroes has had them for quite a while now.
For reference, here's what the current character avatars look like:
http://imgur.com/JNxEJQ4
http://imgur.com/Pb5JVRM

Man I had no idea they had these, I haven't heard anything about this game before now. Those designs look pretty awesome though and it's cool to finally have female super saiyans.

My favorite What-if was already mentioned with Raditz sacrificing himself to save his new family, it was surprisingly :smith:.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

Mister Roboto posted:

The DB universe has great potential to expand even more, like Marvel or DC. They just don't do it that way in the Japanese industry.

When DB copied western comics we ended up with GT, going on and on with one protagonist till nothing made sense anymore. Unfortunately, universe expansion like his is more fanfiction territory-Heroes does it well, but it'd be nice to get more plot concerning the wider world too. Maybe a couple more spin offs or some one shots, or a real sequel instead of an inferior copy.

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
To be honest, what Heroes does is pretty fanficcy too, every saiyan has an SSJ3, plotlines featuring characters being brainwashed to force them to fight heroes, Cell creates a colony of bug people and evolves into the ultimate bugperson, etc. It's just that it's new content and as goofy as it is it will still be fun DBZ goofy stuff.

StrifeHira
Nov 7, 2012

I'll remind you that I have a very large stick.
It helps that most of the "story" stuff for it emphasizes that it's all just little scenario pieces for the card game. Grown up Gotenks? Baby merging with Janenba? Bardock going back in time and becoming a Super Saiyan (and turns out he gets Super 2 now too!)? Wouldn't you want to buy those game cards, kiddo/middle-aged DB fan?

Soulcleaver
Sep 25, 2007

Murderer

WickedHate posted:

When DB copied western comics we ended up with GT, going on and on with one protagonist till nothing made sense anymore. Unfortunately, universe expansion like his is more fanfiction territory-Heroes does it well, but it'd be nice to get more plot concerning the wider world too. Maybe a couple more spin offs or some one shots, or a real sequel instead of an inferior copy.
They seem to planning for more shenanigans after the reveal of multiple universes in Battle of Gods. Some of it might not even have Goku in everything!

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?
Grimey Drawer
gently caress, I really wanna play DB online, drat.

Stairmaster posted:

Holy gently caress, I need to beat that game.

Frankomatic already did it on his YouTube channel, it's terrible compared to the first game.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax
Oh, I'm not bashing the universe expanding, if anything more series' should do it. It's just unfortunate that the the one time DBZ explores these radical concepts(outside of What Ifs) it's:

StrifeHira posted:

all just little scenario pieces for the card game.

The fanfic thing wasn't meant to be derogatory. Heroes is really using every bit of clay they have to make a marvelous statue, but I'm skeptical that they'd be able to do that in a series or movie or whatever, and that dismays me.

Esroc
May 31, 2010

Goku would be ashamed of you.

WickedHate posted:

Oh, I'm not bashing the universe expanding, if anything more series' should do it. It's just unfortunate that the the one time DBZ explores these radical concepts(outside of What Ifs) it's:


The fanfic thing wasn't meant to be derogatory. Heroes is really using every bit of clay they have to make a marvelous statue, but I'm skeptical that they'd be able to do that in a series or movie or whatever, and that dismays me.

With how much animation they've pumped out to promote Heroes I'm surprised they haven't made some kind of special for it. I mean the animated trailers and what not total up to almost a full episode of footage at this point already.

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Melman v2
These look surprisingly good:

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/22/5434866/toy-fair-2014-photo-essay



Dig that hair sculpting!

Cornwind Evil
Dec 14, 2004


The undisputed world champion of wrestling effortposting

EvilTobaccoExec posted:

I thought everyone had already gone level 2 with all the awe "level beyond a super sayian?" and then I was like oh a new level when future Trunks went beyond by bulking up, so when Gohan went beyond those levels it was like uh cool so he's a... forth level super sayian... that's sorta underwhelming.

the lesson is don't let goku come up with your naming scheme. drat, vegeta take a stand

It basically went like this

-Super Saiyan: The original form.
-- 'Ultra Super Saiyan': A further enhancement of the Super Saiyan form, granting more power and muscle mass with no apparent downsides. It gave Vegeta enough power to dominate Semi-Perfect Cell, but was no match for Perfect Cell.
--- 'Ultimate Super Saiyan': Trunks used this form, and Goku discovered it but opted not to use it. It supposedly made Trunks the equal of, or maybe even stronger than Perfect Cell, but his muscles bulked up so much that he couldn't even hit Cell, hence all the power was worthless. Why he didn't just try to beam spam Cell to death, who knows: Power Levels and how they related to the beam attacks always worked weird (Remember the original Ocean dub where they gave the Makkankosappo/Special Beam Cannon the properties of a literal laser and Radditz dodging it meant he could move, as a shocked Piccolo said, 'faster than the speed of light'?)
- 'Full Power Super Saiyan': Basically the Super Saiyan form studied inside out and backwards and forwards and used to its maximum ability and efficiency. For all we know, this doesn't even grant a power boost, or one that's weaker than Ultra. This is what Goku and Gohan went with.
- Super Saiyan 2. A true proper evolution. Doubles the power of the Super Saiyan form without affecting speed, hence making it a true evolution rather than the other 'improved older models'.

Basically, Goku figured out the machine gun, Vegeta upgraded it to a belt-fed machine gun, Trunks created a gatling gun, Goku made some kind of fusion of the AK-47 and F-2000, and then Gohan figured out how to make a portable automatic rail launcher.

Broly's was apparently a wholly separate state; the 'Legendary Super Saiyan' which basically functioned like a combination of Ultimate Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2. For its problems, I rather liked the DBZ Multiverse comic's explanation that the Legendary Super Saiyan's true danger was that it functioned like a perpetual motion machine, and that the longer Broly stayed in it, the stronger he got, with no upper limit.

Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?



The main thing with "Full Power Super Saiyan" is that staying powered up used to take a lot of energy (see 100% Freeza's fatigue). The full-power form was pretty much being so comfortable with it that it took no energy to maintain and that energy could be used for extra strenght or stamina.

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Rohan Kishibe
Oct 29, 2011

Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.

I think the implication was that Vegeta conceived of the technique too, same as Goku, it's just that like Goku, he just instantly knew that it wouldn't work, whereas Trunks went along with it.

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