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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Do you phsyically strike people with shinai or bokken in Aikido or FMA? At full strength? In the head?
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Feb 21, 2014 12:50
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Siivola posted:Haha, no. The other guy's supposed to get out of the way and if he doesn't, you ought to have enough control to abort in time. But you're also supposed to commit to the strike hard enough that the nage can use your momentum to perform the technique correctly. Ah, okay, if we're talking kata then Cardiac's friend's story makes more sense. It's exactly the same for Kendo kata, but I know a lot of people (lower grades mostly) don't put that kind of power into their strikes because like his friend said, it can be scary for both parties. vvv edit: Whoops! Edited! Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 13:06
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You've got me confused with Cardiac, haha. I just popped in to talk aikido.
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Feb 21, 2014 13:56
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Siivola posted:Haha, no. The other guy's supposed to get out of the way and if he doesn't, you ought to have enough control to abort in time. But you're also supposed to commit to the strike hard enough that the nage can use your momentum to perform the technique correctly. It drives me nuts when Aikido dojo teach students to pull their punches- having the control to not make contact is an essential and necessary skill, but I see so many beginners learning from senpai who are aiming for the space 2 inches away from their chest or head, not the actual target. Changing the distancing that much is going to build bad habits that'll be a nasty amount of work to fix later. 
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Feb 21, 2014 18:52
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Syphilis Fish posted:I think his point was stabbing the guy 16 times repeatedly. Then it stops being self defense. ya exactly and I was implying that owning a non-utility knife makes it appear more that you are looking for trouble, versus a gun that for whatever weird reason we have in society, is more explainable as a self defense thing. Anyway, I think the only martial art crazy enough to go all out with weapons is Dog Brother style weapon fighting. Which is entertaining as hell but I would never want to do.
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Feb 21, 2014 20:21
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DekeThornton posted:Most people own knives that aren't "tactical" murder knives. I can't imagine a court looking unfavourably on someone stabbing a burglar with a chefs knife, compared to shooting the invader. I'm not sure it makes a ton of sense to train knife work for self-defense under the assumption you'll be able to reach a chef's knife when you're attacked. I mean you could leave scissors in every room of your house and raise those odds a little. Maybe you can walk around outside with a Leatherman tool although it's highly unlikely you'll be able to open it quickly under stress. But I think the bottom line is, if you think it's worth spending hundreds of hours to become good at stabbing people in emergency situations (edit: which it is not), you probably also think it's worth having the necessary tools handy (again, not). McNerd fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 20:44
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All the hours wasted learning how to do tricks with a butterfly knife when you could have been turning a flying triangle choke into a real world hurricanrana.
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Feb 21, 2014 21:17
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Cardiac posted:
Well, unless you can physically cut through someone with a shinai, you have to!. Typically you aim to stop the cut 1-2 inches 'into' the target. This gives you maximum speed at that point. FWIW, I've never seen any strikes in aikido, asides from the movie style overhead karate-chops
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Feb 21, 2014 23:01
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I don't know if the cost of BJJ is something that has been done to death in this thread, but I just kinda wanted to get a bit of a sanity check. Is $100/month for two classes a week crazy? I'm in Victoria, BC. There were gyms back home in Newfoundland that were $60/month for unlimited classes or around $60-$80 for 3 classes a week, not to mention judo clubs that were $200 for entire semesters. There aren't a lot of options here though. Zuma is considered the most legit, but it's the one that's $100/month for a 2 class/week membership (plus they want a year long commitment). I've been there a bunch of times before and it seems like a decent gym (although their space leaves a lot to be desired, and being next to a frozen fish warehouse, well...). Other clubs appear to be taught by various levels of amateurs (like this) or to be of totally dubious quality (like this, there is most definitely no BJJ gym at that location). Then there's Island MMA, which doesn't have BJJ, but has MT/MMA (and also Krav Maga, which I always took as a bit of a red flag).
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Feb 22, 2014 00:47
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ImplicitAssembler posted:FWIW, I've never seen any strikes in aikido, asides from the movie style overhead karate-chops
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Feb 22, 2014 12:27
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I just came across this neat old clip from 1919. Swedish old school Jiu Jitsu. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exZNrP2dNnw
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Feb 22, 2014 13:12
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:Is $100/month for two classes a week crazy? I'm in Victoria, BC.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:26
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DekeThornton posted:I just came across this neat old clip from 1919. Swedish old school Jiu Jitsu. Holy cow, that's neat... only marginally raelated, but found some middle-aged kenshiro abe stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA6NAEb40yU
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Feb 22, 2014 18:48
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DekeThornton posted:I just came across this neat old clip from 1919. Swedish old school Jiu Jitsu. The jacket flip takedown at 0:42 is awesome.
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Feb 22, 2014 23:37
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We've got some good S/C guys in here and the rest of the internet is untrustworthy: I can hit the gym 2x a week (bjj 2x gym 2x a week) and would like to put on somewhere around 10 - 15 pounds, at least eventually. I understand I need to eat eat eat but what is a decent plan or resource for me to follow as far as the gym? In the past, I've done stuff like 5x5 or kettle bells but I've always found that they don't account for doing something like bjj and I start getting hurt or just can't keep up the intensity. On the other end, most bjj or martial art workouts seem to focus on weight classes and adding more strength without mass, and really I think just being flat out heavier would help me if my proportional strength remained the same. I managed to add about 10 pounds back in college but I didnt have adult life to deal with so I could just snack and gym constantly, where as now I need to really have a good plan. Guys at my gym have recommended eating a lot and doing lighter weight higher rep stuff focusing on the usual complex lifts but I feel like I need a solid plan. Also, maybe an app to track my lifts since I've got this fancy iphone now.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:24
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Xguard86 posted:We've got some good S/C guys in here and the rest of the internet is untrustworthy: Most serious strength routines I've seen for martial arts seem to focus on low reps of the main compund exercises, squats etc, with something explosive such as power cleans added. Starting strength, 5x5, 5/3/1, and similar. I do something along those lines and it works fine as long as I just eat enough and don't expect to make gains as If I was not also doing martial arts four times a week. What routine you do is however really secondary to your diet If your goal is to gain weight. If you find it hard to eat enough calories to gain weight, go for liquid calories on top of your normal diet. Milk is the best, but I guess you could also go for soda or juce, If you hate Milk for some reason.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:09
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Xguard86 posted:We've got some good S/C guys in here and the rest of the internet is untrustworthy: If what you want is size/weight then a bodybuilding routine with a lot of food should be the fastest way to get heavier. But that's obviously not the BestTM thing you can do for sports. You could try one of Alfalfa's size programs in Watch and weight Personally I train 2x a week and I use a program that is modified from SS day 1 : 5x2 power clean 3x5 squat 3x5 over head press 1x5 deadlift day 2 : 5x2 power clean 3x5 squats (I do front squats on that day) 3x5 bench 3x10 pull-ups (add weight if you can do more than 3x10) I found this is a program I can do 2x a week while doing judo and other sports without being half dead. It gave me nice strenght gains and appreciable size gains (but I don't eat enough to get real size gains). Best program I've been on in quite a while and I'll keep it as my regular program during the judo season (basically all the time except 2-3 months of summer). Things I tried to put in perspective : Westside for skinny bastards, some of Alfalfa's programs, "normal" SS, 5x5 and a couple of random programs. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 01:24
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that looks doable for me and a lot of the stuff you did I tried as well. Ya I know body builder style workouts aren't the absolute best for sports but part of my desire is aesthetic and I really think just more weight on my frame would help, like right now I feel its too easy for guys to explode out from under me because I'm so... uhh opposite of dense and they can get momentum and movement that wouldn't happen with a few more pounds on top of them.
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Feb 24, 2014 18:03
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Total  moment happened this weekend.I took my test to make it into the upper-level Muay Thai classes. Guess who ended up failing it? This guy! It was so sad because everyone truly believed that I was going to breeze through the exam based off of how my technique looks in class. The test consisted of pad holding for another student, then two 3-minute rounds in the ring with a trainer that holds pads for you. It's not just simple pad holding either, the trainer will also 'fight' back. For example, if he holds for a jab, he'll smack you upside the head with some decent force to ensure you're bringing your hand back to your face. Or, the trainer will hold for a few punches, kicks, etc. Then, 'attack' with a combo of swats from the pads and kicks to my person. Even better, the entire thing is purposely held at times where the gym will be packed full of people watching. Like a scaled down version of a gym smoker. Welp, the nerves and my weakness in one area really got to me. The weakness? Reading my opponent well enough to not only know when a kick is coming, but what kind of kick it will be. I know the movements to check leg and waist level kicks as well as the proper dodges to avoid getting kicked in the head. How did I fail the exam? I got kicked by the trainer. A LOT! In classes, I can pull off the blocks all day. But, that's easy to do when you're working with a pad holding classmate. Since it's a class, the partner throws kicks at 1/4 speed and, well, pads ultimately don't hit back. But at full speed, I struggle to read my opponent and choose the appropriate block for the incoming kick. I'll break off after class with other friends / folks also trying to test for the upper level classes and literally have them spend an entire round throwing punches and kicks at me at full speed. On my end, I just do nothing but defend it all as best as I can for the round. For a guy that came in to Muay Thai not knowing how to throw a punch at all (my background is TKD and Capoeira), I'm good at keeping my hands up and blocking/slipping punches all day. Punches to the face, body, whatever. I can block it all. But I just can't see a kick coming sometimes. Often times, I do recognize that a kick is headed my way, but I can't tell where it's going to go. This usually has me checking what I think will be a leg kick only to get kicked in the head. Or, dodge back because I think a head kick is coming, only to eat a kick to the thigh. Besides the fact that I don't want to fail the test a second time around (again, for eating kicks that I should be defending properly), I ultimately need to strengthen up my defense so I don't eat so many drat kicks! So I ask you, Martial Arts Thread - how do you all manage to read an opponent's kick before it connects? I know one answer will be to spar more often, but until you make it to the upper level classes, you aren't allowed to spar. Frustrating since the exam is held at a sparring level pace. Luckily, I have gym friends that will spar with me outside of the gym to help me out. Besides sparring, what else can you all recommend? Help this non-athletic, 31-year old, no more having the reaction time of my 18 year old self Goon out!
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Feb 24, 2014 20:21
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I'm confused by why they would have you take a test with full speed kicks if kicks aren't thrown at that speed in any of your classes and you aren't allowed to go tot he classes with sparring/full speed. As a result of that policy, your best/only recourse to pass this test is to spar outside the gym because you aren't allowed to spar there? That sounds real safe - to start sparring without an instructor present.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:36
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Xguard86 posted:that looks doable for me and a lot of the stuff you did I tried as well. Ya I know body builder style workouts aren't the absolute best for sports but part of my desire is aesthetic and I really think just more weight on my frame would help, like right now I feel its too easy for guys to explode out from under me because I'm so... uhh opposite of dense and they can get momentum and movement that wouldn't happen with a few more pounds on top of them. I know how you feel. That's why I'm considering doing a bodybuilding split during the summer when I don't do judo and only have 1 job (because LOL at the thought of training 4x a week right now or doing endless sets of isolation exercise) or some other program that has a bit more focus on size gains while still being interesting for sports (westside for skinny bastards 4x a week is so much fun to do, especially the explosive day).
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Feb 24, 2014 22:51
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KingColliwog posted:If what you want is size/weight then a bodybuilding routine with a lot of food should be the fastest way to get heavier. But that's obviously not the BestTM thing you can do for sports. You could try one of Alfalfa's size programs in Watch and weight This is sort of similar to what I do, only without the "plenty of food" part as I'm trying to shave off about 20lb's of stubborn as hell bodyfat............I swear I'm just made to be cuddly. Dolemite posted:Total I'm not one to comment on how people run their club's but the mentality of the club I train under is "The best way to learn how to fight is to fight" I've pretty much been sparring from the day I bought shinpad's/gloves/gumshield. Also reading kick's is very difficult as everyone has slightly differing technique's and any experienced Muay Thai practioner is going to be very good at hiding an oncoming kick, it really is going to be down to experience which you won't get without sparring. i personally am not a huge fan of checking every single kick that come's my way, sometime's I'll wear the kick to close distance and counter with punch's etc check's are a great tool but can also be dangerous (ask Anderson Silva).
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Feb 24, 2014 23:23
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Couldn't you practice defending attacks while one of your training partners throws random attacks at you? They could do it slowly, you could decide on a few combinations or single attacks in advance. Then you could get them to speed it up and/or put some force behind it once you're more comfortable with the drill. Seriously though, on one hand it's great for a martial arts place to be strict on the advancement of their students because it means they're serious about making their students into quality fighters, but there's a gaping hole in their curriculum if they're testing you for something they've given you no opportunity to learn yet. Maybe have a chat to one of your instructors about that.
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Feb 25, 2014 03:10
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Sooo, anybody received or caused any skull injuries before? Last week my girlfriend accidentally connected a perfect compasso (capoeira roundhouse) kick to the temple of her opponent in a roda, almost knocked her out and has given her a hairline fracture (X-rays and stuff have happened). These things are recoverable, right? My girlfriend is mortified and is a bit scared of fighting again. The other girl has been having a few headaches and stuff too.
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Feb 25, 2014 03:20
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When I was 18 some methhead hit me in the face with a pool ball a bunch of times. Caused minor fractures around the bottom of the eye socket. It was fine, it just needed time to heal, didn't need surgery or anything because everything was still sitting in place. I didn't get headaches or anything like that though, I just had an epic black eye.
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Feb 25, 2014 04:00
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:When I was 18 some methhead hit me in the face with a pool ball a bunch of times. Caused minor fractures around the bottom of the eye socket. It was fine, it just needed time to heal, didn't need surgery or anything because everything was still sitting in place. I didn't get headaches or anything like that though, I just had an epic black eye. Jesus Christ
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Feb 25, 2014 04:06
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Dolemite posted:Reading my opponent well enough to not only know when a kick is coming, but what kind of kick it will be. I know the movements to check leg and waist level kicks as well as the proper dodges to avoid getting kicked in the head. Are you allowed to do a 2-level "shield block" (not sure what the MT name is)?:   For when you know which side the kick is coming from but you don't know what level it's targeting. You can't do it every time, as you'll get cut kicked or teeped, but it helps to have the extra coverage. Are they throwing really cheap kicks, too? By that, I mean inside kick to lead leg, which is the quickest, shortest travel kick you can throw, which obviously requires a lot better reaction time to read.
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Feb 25, 2014 05:28
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Tokai University's Judo Team will be training in Georgetown (DC) Wed and Fri night this week. If you're within driving distance, I suggest coming down for the chance to get your poo poo thrown around by some top tier Judo players.
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Feb 25, 2014 05:43
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Thanks to this thread, I have found a amazing judo club in my area and got back into marital arts after terrible time in Tae Kwon Do as a 300 pound teenager. Does anyone know what is the best way to hang a judo gi for air drying? I am aware that washing it in cold water will prevent shrikage, but I been getting conflicting information on how to hang dry it. I been advised that I should fashion a homemade hanger with a broomstick to keep the arms from shrinking. Others told me a drying rack is just fine.
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Feb 25, 2014 12:44
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Check out this uhhh, fight! I wonder what's going on in there.
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Feb 25, 2014 13:54
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I've always lived under the impression you're supposed to let it shrink It's not like it's going to wink out of existence if you wash it too much, so just buy one with room for shrinkage. Mine dries on a regular coathanger and is doing pretty fine. Hell, I wish it'd shrink more, I went and bought too big a jacket.
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Feb 25, 2014 13:56
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Whiskey A Go Go! posted:Thanks to this thread, I have found a amazing judo club in my area and got back into marital arts after terrible time in Tae Kwon Do as a 300 pound teenager. There's going to be some amount of shrinkage over time no matter what you do and even if you buy a "preshrinked" gi. Especially if it's a ridiculously thick gi, single weaves won't shrink as much. I know my favorite gi progressively got smaller over time (ok I may have gotten a little bigger too). Next time I plan to buy the same brand but one size up and throw it into the washing machine with hot water and then in the drier to get all/most of the shrinkage done in one day. Personally I just put them on a coat hanger to dry. Add additional hangers and a couple of fans if you're in "oh poo poo my gi is wet and my class is in 5 hours" mode
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Feb 25, 2014 15:26
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Somebody posted an amazing picture of their crazy air-drying setup with all the fans and contraptions earlier in the thread, I'd dig it up but 
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Feb 25, 2014 15:58
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Kekekela posted:Somebody posted an amazing picture of their crazy air-drying setup with all the fans and contraptions earlier in the thread, I'd dig it up but that was me and my super "insta dry" setup. uhuh 4-5 coat hangers and 2-3 fans for the win.
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Feb 25, 2014 17:35
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KingColliwog posted:that was me and my super "insta dry" setup. uhuh 4-5 coat hangers and 2-3 fans for the win. repost that rube-goldberg majesty.
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Feb 25, 2014 17:37
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Novum posted:repost that rube-goldberg majesty. Didn't think I'd find them again. You can't really see, but there was one fan on each side of the gi and a dehumifier under it. 2-3 hour dry time and we're talking thick as gently caress judo competition gi.  
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Feb 25, 2014 17:50
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Dolemite posted:Total don't try to check or block every attack that comes at you. it takes way too much effort. Just let them miss. Whenever a round/cut kick comes, step back a half step and let him miss. Doesn't matter which level that kick is. Or step in with a straight. It's hard to read kicks, so only block the ones you do see, get out of the way of the ones you don't. It sounds like a weird test, just defending is the hardest thing to do; you're going to get hit a few times. Do you spar regularly? that will help you read kicks. I'm a big fan of letting people fight/spar asap.
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Feb 26, 2014 06:53
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Thanks for the advice everyone and, well, the validation of my frustration. It's frustrating that the 'No Sparring' rule is enforced across the board in a black and white fashion, rather than in shades of grey. I can understand why the gym won't let total newbies spar. But when you're right on the cusp of testing into upper level classes where sparring is not only permitted, but an integral part of the curriculum, you'd think the gym would let you spar. Albeit, very lightly, with full gear head-to-toe and under the watch of an instructor. Syphilis Fish posted:don't try to check or block every attack that comes at you. it takes way too much effort. Just let them miss. Whenever a round/cut kick comes, step back a half step and let him miss. Doesn't matter which level that kick is. Or step in with a straight. It's hard to read kicks, so only block the ones you do see, get out of the way of the ones you don't. It sounds like a weird test, just defending is the hardest thing to do; you're going to get hit a few times. Do you spar regularly? that will help you read kicks. Yeah, the time or two that I was able to spar under the radar of the instructors' eyes, I quickly discovered that it was easier to just barely step backwards out of range. Or, move the targeted leg back a step, then spring off that leg and return with a kick of my own. They've actually taught us a form of this in class, too. Unfortunately, you aren't allowed to do such things on the exam. They want to see you check kicks exclusively. Ugh. kimbo305 posted:Are you allowed to do a 2-level "shield block" (not sure what the MT name is)?: I've never actually seen this before, but I want to try it now. It seems like a great last-ditch effort to avoid eating a kick! Keeping in theme with how the exam is scored, they would count that as having been hit. I know this because there were a few times during the exam where at the last second, I realized that a head kick was coming. To minimize the damage, I did some form of what was in your pics - turtle up and roll my shoulder / upper back towards the kick. To be fair, the kicks weren't cheap, just hard to read. Like when the instructor was throwing 'punches' with the pads, he switched his feet during the punches and connected with a switch kick. Fair enough, I still should've caught that. 02-6611-0142-1 posted:Couldn't you practice defending attacks while one of your training partners throws random attacks at you? They could do it slowly, you could decide on a few combinations or single attacks in advance. Then you could get them to speed it up and/or put some force behind it once you're more comfortable with the drill. I've been doing drills along this line with some of the more serious students as well as fellow students testing for the upper level classes. We try to go at a somewhat quick pace to mimic the exam. To give the gym credit, they do have very high standards for their fighters. And because of that, our gym's fighters do very well in the various fight nights put on around the area. And when they saw all of us fail (5 of us tested) because we ate too many kicks, they decided that this entire week will be spend on kick defense. Like you mentioned, they likely figured out that they probably had a hole in their curriculum regarding that. Undeclared Eggplant posted:I'm confused by why they would have you take a test with full speed kicks if kicks aren't thrown at that speed in any of your classes and you aren't allowed to go tot he classes with sparring/full speed. Yeah, while I did get kicked too much and really didn't put on a good performance, I do have some grumbles with how the exam wasn't consistent with how classes are held. And I totally agree that it's silly that I can't spar at a martial arts gym and have to arrange to do it outside of a place equipped for people punching each other. --- E/N aside, do any of you have experience with foot injuries? Before the test, the instructors had us hold pads for each other. The pad holder would also throw kicks towards their partner so the partner can practice catching kicks. Well, I threw a light, lower speed leg kick to my partner, he checked it and I connected with, well, I don't know. The shin maybe? Even with shin guards, my foot stung for the rest of the exam. I figured it was just a bruise that will go away with time. Then over the weekend, it swelled up like mad and sometimes, I almost was reduced to limping on it. It's been getting better, but to this day, it's still swollen. I still have pain when I put pressure on it. It mostly happens when I begin walking on it or begin using it in general. But once I'm in motion, the foot feels fine. I've even been able to take classes on it. Moving around is fine, I can post up on the foot to kick with my opposite leg. But if I try to kick with it, even though I'm hitting with the shin/instep, I still feel a lot of pain. To the point that I've accepted that I can't use that leg to kick at all. Great timing for checking kicks week. :/ I hope nothing's broken in there! I could see a doctor. I have insurance, the costs have me a bit concerned. 
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Feb 26, 2014 19:11
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KingColliwog posted:Personally I train 2x a week and I use a program that is modified from SS This looks like the big lifts with fairly low reps - a pretty solid workout for martial arts-oriented strength but without a whole lot of bodybuilding/mass building in it. If Xguard is looking to put on weight how about just a bit of high rep stuff on top of it, like: Day 1: 5x2 power clean 3x5 squat 3x5 over head press Alternate 3x10 machine overhead press with 3x10 machine pull-downs 1x5 deadlift 3x10 shrugs (or 3 farmer's walks if you have a cool gym with cool stuff in it) day 2 : 5x2 power clean 3x5 front squats Alternate 3x10 leg press with 3x10 barbell hip thrusts (look a bit fruity but are good for moving a fair bit of weight and so putting on mass, and since they develop a poo poo-load of power from the hips they're probably great for bjj) 3x5 bench Alternate 3x10 dips with 3x10 seated machine rows I'm a big fan of alternating opposing muscle groups to pack a lot of traning into relatively short sessions. Also doing the big lifts for low reps, then simpler variations versions or machines for high reps, since when you're fatigued your form's more likely to go to poo poo. Especially if you lift a few times a week to supplement training - your form probably won't be as good as a dedicated lifter on the more technical stuff so your main aim should be not injure yourself. You probably wouldn't make strength gains on the big lifts as fast with something like this, since you're spending energy on a bunch of other stuff, but that's probably not a bad thing as pure strength wasn't your main aim. Speaking of which cleans are a pretty technical lift (and moderately dangerous if done badly, though I guess so are squats and deadlifts) and designed for low rep explosive strength. They're great for pretty much any sport or martial art and definitely worth doing if you're in the gym - however, that's pretty much the opposite of what you wanted, so I guess you could chop them out to make time. Something like that has a bit of high-rep work so will probably leave you with some DOMS and wreck your bjj for the first few weeks, but I've done a similar workout alongside training and you adapt pretty quick. (Sorry if we weren't talking about this anymore, I like lifting)
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Feb 27, 2014 01:27
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Don't be sorry, it's a very interesting topic and your suggestions are good. I sometime add some higher volume and some abs stuff at the end(like today I added 2x12 DB incline bench press and a small abs circuit) but I don't do it everytime. Also I like that you mentionned farmers walk. They are the best. It's crazy how much they will increase grip strength. As in noticeable change during randori in as little as a month or so.
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Feb 27, 2014 02:16
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