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Torrannor posted:A Red-Green coalition? Hmm, I can't wait for Merkel to leave office then.  Careful what you wish for. 
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Feb 15, 2014 13:57
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Christ, gently caress the CSU!
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Feb 16, 2014 19:16
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Also says a lot about the people who vote for such a poo poo party.
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Feb 16, 2014 19:23
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What the gently caress Well done Merkel, well done indeed!
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Feb 22, 2014 08:54
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Nektu posted:What the gently caress And we didn't even have to invade them!
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Feb 22, 2014 09:22
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now thats what we call Endlösung can't be long for Merkel to receive the Nobel Peace Prize now
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Feb 22, 2014 10:13
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Nektu posted:What the gently caress Well "Europa geht es gut und das ist ein Grund zur Freude!" Merkel knows how to be Hitler without being Hitler.
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Feb 22, 2014 13:39
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:And we didn't even have to invade them! We got more efficient. Though I don't really see why Merkel should be to blame for something decided by non-German organizations and implemented by the Greek government. Hell, the article even says that Iceland was able to just say "gently caress off" to IMF requests, so there is no reason the Greek wouldn't have been able to do likewise.
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Feb 22, 2014 14:52
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What about all the financial help Greece receives from the EU?
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Feb 22, 2014 15:02
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I'd like to interrupt the scheduled Hitler-comparisons for a second and sincerely ask if some of you guys actually read that article.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:26
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The IMF is such a great organisation.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:31
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Randler posted:We got more efficient. 50% wage drop in Iceland, unilaterally imposed by devaluation. Try pulling that in Greece.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:33
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Duzzy Funlop posted:I'd like to interrupt the scheduled Hitler-comparisons for a second and sincerely ask if some of you guys actually read that article. I'm pretty sure everyone read it, but I'm not sure why that would change anything. It's not like greece wants to be bad in finance but it's forced to do so, especially by queen Merkel and ~of course~ others. Regarding the fact that it's causing such damage, holocaust- and Hitler comparison are of course kinda bad but actually appropriate.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:50
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Nobnob posted:I'm pretty sure everyone read it, but I'm not sure why that would change anything. The change would have been that you would have a basic understanding of the article, especially the final part. quote:It's not like greece wants to be bad in finance but it's forced to do so, especially by queen Merkel and ~of course~ others. Regarding the fact that it's causing such damage, holocaust- and Hitler comparison are of course kinda bad but actually appropriate. Yeah. OR this is a hilariously retarded opinion.
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Feb 22, 2014 17:34
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Nobnob posted:Regarding the fact that it's causing such damage, holocaust- and Hitler comparison are of course kinda bad but actually appropriate. Let's see what an expert on this matter has to say. 
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Feb 22, 2014 17:44
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Randler posted:Though I don't really see why Merkel should be to blame for something decided by non-German organizations and implemented by the Greek government. Hell, the article even says that Iceland was able to just say "gently caress off" to IMF requests, so there is no reason the Greek wouldn't have been able to do likewise. Merkel had/has a hell of a lot influence in europeland right now, and trying to solve the crisis by austerity is a plan that has been introduced by her. When push came to shove in 2012 and greece had to decide to either leave the euro (and default its debts) or accept the troikas "help" you can bet your rear end that the former greek government had been under extreme pressure by the troika, germany and so on to make the "right" choice. Nobnob posted:I'm pretty sure everyone read it, but I'm not sure why that would change anything. It's not like greece wants to be bad in finance but it's forced to do so, especially by queen Merkel and ~of course~ others. Regarding the fact that it's causing such damage, holocaust- and Hitler comparison are of course kinda bad but actually appropriate. We simply are not entirely uninvolved in greeces predicament right now: after the crisis of 2008 the ECB reduced the central interest rates in the whole euro zone to next to nothing to allow our and france's economy to recover. They flooded the whole euro zone with cheap money to save us, because it was no longer possible to do that for just france and germany alone. If there is cheap money, it WILL be spend (it is as simple as that). Obviously the interest rate was far to low for greece, and all that cheap money helped fueling the debt crisis it is facing right now. And that central problem of the euro zone is simply not going away - at the moment it is basically impossible to steer the economies of all member countries in a way that is helpful for everbody. Someone will always be on the losing side, although hopefully the crisises to come are not as bad as the ones in greece/spain/portugal/italy right now. And of course no one forced the greek politicians to be useless corrupt shitheads that could not govern their way out of a wet paperback. The point is, greek governments have always been like that, but before they accepted the euro it was nevertheless a system that was able to provide a decend living for the greeks. Now they lost the control over their currency and are no longer able to devaluate their debts and cheapen their goods to go through the debt crisis in the normal way - instead they are forced to basically break down their entire state and build it up anew in a year or two. Without spending money of course. Normally changes like that only happen that fast during a revolution of some kind! I guess it just turns out that when Draghi talked about defending the euro whatever the cost he did not only mean a cost in money, but also in human lives... And the good question is, how many of those is the euro worth? Ah well. Of course I'm not pinning all that on merkel. She is not responsible for the current state of europeland, no one person/country/whoever (no, not even greece) is. She is however responsible for the austerity policies which may or may not be be the correct course. Lucy Heartfilia posted:What about all the financial help Greece receives from the EU?
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Feb 22, 2014 19:38
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Nektu posted:And of course no one forced the greek politicians to be useless corrupt shitheads that could not govern their way out of a wet paperback. The point is, greek governments have always been like that, but before they accepted the euro it was nevertheless a system that was able to provide a decend living for the greeks. I get the basic jist of what you're saying, but you do realize you're basically saying that they had a broken system that would have worked out just fine had it just not been disturbed in any way, right? quote:Ah well. Of course I'm not pinning all that on merkel. She is not responsible for the current state of europeland, no one person/country/whoever (no, not even greece) is. She is however responsible for the austerity policies which may or may not be be the correct course. The difference between the debateability of one course of action and the previous situation in this case is that, while the course of action embarked on may or may not be the proper solution, the previous situation was hilariously insane. But I digress, the popular verdict is obviously that Merkel is somehow literally hitler while not entirely literally Hitler and the imposed course of austerity is also the holocaust because
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Feb 23, 2014 01:07
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Meanwhile in the funny pictures thread
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Feb 25, 2014 18:19
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My Lovely Horse posted:Meanwhile in the funny pictures thread Saw the picture and remembered reading about Germany's problem with racism today: http://www.thelocal.de posted:
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Feb 25, 2014 23:27
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I read that report (PDF). While a lot of their recommendations are agreeable, some of them might be hard or impossible to implement in Germany due to constitutional reasons. Namely the exclusion of fiancing for certain not-forbidden parties. (Though I also have my doubts about the usefulness and legality of the proposed change regarding a removal of "disturbed the peace" as the quote puts it.)
Randler fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Feb 26, 2014 |
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Feb 26, 2014 00:10
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Duzzy Funlop posted:I get the basic jist of what you're saying, but you do realize you're basically saying that they had a broken system that would have worked out just fine had it just not been disturbed in any way, right? Duzzy Funlop posted:The difference between the debateability of one course of action and the previous situation in this case is that, while the course of action embarked on may or may not be the proper solution, the previous situation was hilariously insane. Bonus points because they may still come to know the true promise of being austered AND going bankrupt (see below). The point that I wanted to make is more about (at least partial) responsibility. If they had left in 2012, it would have been their mess alone. Now the rest of the eurozone is in that poo poo too, because we pressed them towards the current situation. Combine that with the nature of the solution which is all out IMF-style "just-grind-the-poors-into-paste-and-feed-them-to-the-markets" austerity, its not really strange that that mix would lead to: Duzzy Funlop posted:But I digress, the popular verdict is obviously that Merkel is somehow literally hitler while not entirely literally Hitler and the imposed course of austerity is also the holocaust because  External enemies are always an eagerly accepted commodity in times of crisis. Bonus points if they are actually involved in the stuff that happened.A bit of fun stuff for the end: Greece needs more money or will go bankrupt and the IMF is no longer willing to pay a part of that because greeces outlook is so bad. But I was kidding above, greece will not go bankrupt because we will continue paying for it. But Merkel already stopped Schäuble from talking about that until the election for the european parliament is over, so  Members of the european parliament think that the troika violated EU treaties with the measures they encouraged in the PIG states (more to the point the "European Social Charter and employment conventions set out by the International Labour organisation (ILO)"). They want to disband the troika and put the rescue operations into the hand of the EP. I actually quite like it that the EP is starting to do something more than being lied to, shat upon or just plainly being ignored by the EU-commission. Also an interesting article by a correspondent of Le Monde Diplomatique who quotes merkel (translation mine, feel free to correct me if you think its wrong): Merkel posted:
Also wtf is that part about that communism that we are apparently living right now? Nektu fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 21:42
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Nektu posted:Members of the european parliament think that the troika violated EU treaties with the measures they encouraged in the PIG states (more to the point the "European Social Charter and employment conventions set out by the International Labour organisation (ILO)"). They want to disband the troika and put the rescue operations into the hand of the EP. Do you have a link to the paper they reference? Because just from that article it sounds more like political blustering than an actual argument for a breach of EU treaties. (Mainly due to the fact that the ESC isn't part of the EU treaties and the EU organs like the council of ministers are not bound by the ESC due to the EU not being a party to the ESC. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm aware of Art. 6 I, but that isn't the same thing as being completely bound.) Also, as long as the EP continues to be barely represential of the actual population it has less legitimacy than the EU commission or councils and can therefore go gently caress itself for all I care. Randler fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 22:03
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Randler posted:Do you have a link to the paper they reference? Because just from that article it sounds more like political blustering than an actual argument for a breach of EU treaties. (Mainly due to the fact that the ESC isn't part of the EU treaties and the EU organs like the council of ministers are not bound by the ESC due to the EU not being a party to the ESC.) Randler posted:Also, as long as the EP continues to be barely represential of the actual population it has less legitimacy than the EU commission or councils and can therefore go gently caress itself for all I care.  Did you miss that choice morsel regarding the investment protection contained in TTIP that blew up a few weeks ago, where the commission is basically willing to allow corporations to annul laws that were created by souvereign democratic states without any chance of an appeal in some court? Oh, its a tiny bit more circumspect than that, but not much: Explanation But you are right, the EP is a joke right now, and it is loving high time that that changes and allows it to be a counterweight to our most democratic majesties in the EU commission. Nektu fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 22:17
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Nektu posted:"Legitimacy" of the EU commission? I strictly meant that in a structural sense. I have no love for the EU commission and most of its policies, either, I just don't think a more involved EP (in its current form) is positive. (And thanks for reminding me of TTIP, kinda lost track of that one.)
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Feb 27, 2014 22:23
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Randler posted:I strictly meant that in a structural sense. I have no love for the EU commission and most of its policies, either, I just don't think a more involved EP (in its current form) is positive. vvvv I actually agree. Nektu fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 22:24
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Nektu posted:So, no commission and no parliament? Would there even be something left in bruessels? Well, they probably wouldn't need to be completely destroyed but generally I'm not a fan of a "deeper" European Union and think that ever-growing delegation of national sovereignity to the supranational EU is problematic with regards to democratic concepts, even if it's probably an economic positive for Germany.
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Feb 27, 2014 22:27
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Randler posted:Well, they probably wouldn't need to be completely destroyed but generally I'm not a fan of a "deeper" European Union and think that ever-growing delegation of national sovereignity to the supranational EU is problematic with regards to democratic concepts, even if it's probably an economic positive for Germany. Its no more problematic than any transfer of state rights to a federation. Germany itself has the same transfer of sovereignty from the Länder to the Bund. Unless you mean to say that is a problem that Bavaria and Schleswig-Holstein follow the same laws and are bound by common foreign policy. The days were the small European states could hope to meet the larger powers on eye level are over. The solution is to create a proper federal state, with checks and balances and a democratically legitimized government. Its not rocket science, Europe has a lot of experience what a proper democratic system of government should look like.
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Feb 27, 2014 22:43
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ArchangeI posted:Its no more problematic than any transfer of state rights to a federation. Germany itself has the same transfer of sovereignty from the Länder to the Bund. Unless you mean to say that is a problem that Bavaria and Schleswig-Holstein follow the same laws and are bound by common foreign policy. The days were the small European states could hope to meet the larger powers on eye level are over. The solution is to create a proper federal state, with checks and balances and a democratically legitimized government. Its not rocket science, Europe has a lot of experience what a proper democratic system of government should look like. The current state of the European Union is not comparable to the working of a federal state, though. Unlike Germany, the internal structure as well as the concepts regarding proper governance within the EU member states differs greatly from each other. If the whole union were a proper federal state with a properly democratically legitimized government, I would be singing a different tune. But right now we have a union where some countries' citizens are considered worth more when it comes to elections by an order of magnitude. We have countries that still fill their legislature partly by hereditary or otherwise non elected procedures. And finally there still a significant cultural and economic differences that are larger than any inter-German discrepancies and I'm pretty sure those are big enough to be an obstacle on the way to proper European state.
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Feb 27, 2014 22:58
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ArchangeI posted:Its no more problematic than any transfer of state rights to a federation. Germany itself has the same transfer of sovereignty from the Länder to the Bund. Unless you mean to say that is a problem that Bavaria and Schleswig-Holstein follow the same laws and are bound by common foreign policy. The days were the small European states could hope to meet the larger powers on eye level are over. ArchangeI posted:The solution is to create a proper federal state, with checks and balances and a democratically legitimized government. Its not rocket science, Europe has a lot of experience what a proper democratic system of government should look like.  Then why are all the current european institutions so very far away from that once you start to look behind the words?Have you read the article regarding TTIP I linked above? If not, do it. That stuff is no trivial offense by the EU commision, but a full out assault on (at least a part of) democracy. No, I'm not kidding or exaggerating. Edit: lets quote it a bit: quote:Mittels solcher privilegierten Regelungen in den bisherigen Abkommen haben ausländische Investoren schon in den verschiedensten Fällen eine Entschädigung für ihre "indirekte Enteignung" gefordert: im Hinblick auf Gesundheits- und Sicherheitsstandards von Konsumgütern, Gesetze über Umweltschutz und Flächennutzung, Entscheidungen bei der Ausschreibung staatlicher Projekte, Klimaschutz- und energiepolitische Maßnahmen, Gesetze über Wasserschutz oder Einschränkungen des Rohstoffabbaus. Randler posted:The current state of the European Union is not comparable to the working of a federal state, though. Unlike Germany, the internal structure as well as the concepts regarding proper governance within the EU member states differs greatly from each other. If the whole union were a proper federal state with a properly democratically legitimized government, I would be singing a different tune. But right now we have a union where some countries' citizens are considered worth more when it comes to elections by an order of magnitude. We have countries that still fill their legislature partly by hereditary or otherwise non elected procedures. And finally there still a significant cultural and economic differences that are larger than any inter-German discrepancies and I'm pretty sure those are big enough to be an obstacle on the way to proper European state. Nektu fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 22:59
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Nektu posted:Have you read the article regarding TTIP I linked above? If not, do it. That stuff is no trivial offense by the EU commision, but a full out assault on (at least a part of) democracy. Goddamn! They are really trying that again, I really had hoped this poo poo had died fifteen years ago. This is seriously a fast track to some kind of cyberpunk dystopia.
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Feb 27, 2014 23:18
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Grim Up North posted:Goddamn! They are really trying that again, I really had hoped this poo poo had died fifteen years ago. This is seriously a fast track to some kind of cyberpunk dystopia. Cyberpunk always gives a glimmer of hope to the underclass, this fast track leads to the regular kind of dystopia.
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Feb 28, 2014 09:28
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The Real Foogla posted:Cyberpunk always gives a glimmer of hope to the underclass, this fast track leads to the regular kind of dystopia. Yeah, I was going for the "multinationals being the new law-makers" angle. 
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Feb 28, 2014 11:06
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This years' carnival in Dusseldorf yield (as always) some pretty funny and well-made wagons, especially some political ones.   Full gallery can be found here.
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Mar 3, 2014 18:16
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Oh, Gerd you little rascal. quote:"Natürlich ist das, was auf der Krim geschieht, ein Verstoß gegen das Völkerrecht", sagte Schröder auf der Veranstaltung in Hamburg weiter. Dennoch wolle er seinen Freund, den russischen Präsidenten Wladimir Putin, nicht verurteilen. Er selbst habe als Kanzler beim Jugoslawien-Konflikt ebenfalls gegen das Völkerrecht verstoßen. "Da haben wir unsere Flugzeuge (...) nach Serbien geschickt, und die haben zusammen mit der Nato einen souveränen Staat gebombt - ohne dass es einen Sicherheitsratsbeschluss gegeben hätte." Insofern sei er mit dem erhobenen Zeigefinger vorsichtig, betonte Schröder.
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Mar 10, 2014 12:37
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you can really hear the Gazprom money being counted in the background when you read those words
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Mar 10, 2014 13:08
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Are we supposed to take Schröder serious right now or what
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Mar 10, 2014 18:15
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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I hope Hoeneß really gets to sit in jail for 3.5 years. The idiots are already coming out to defend this parasite.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:36
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You can't expect a rich person to actually get punished, die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:40
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One would hope that this would actually hurt Seehofer/the CSU, but who knows.
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Mar 13, 2014 18:29
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Teron D Amun posted:you can really hear the Gazprom money being counted in the background when you read those words The thing is, a plurality at least of Germans basically think that. Including me.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:00
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