Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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ultramiraculous: Nov 12, 2003; "No..."; Grimey Drawer

HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:

Compiling C without -Wall -Werror or the moral equivalent is a horror.

What's funny is you still don't catch this with -Wall. To get -Wunreachable-code turned on you have to compile with -Weverything :smug:

# ? Feb 22, 2014 19:23

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# ? May 17, 2024 14:29

evensevenone: May 12, 2001; Glass is a solid.

-Wall doesn't include the unreachable code check (at least in GCC, and probably clang).

Now that I think about it, that could have been caused by a hosed up merge; merge tools are good but they're not perfect. In that case it probably would have passed code review (since most teams review diffs). Still, you'd think a unit test / regression test would have caught it.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 19:23

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Yeah, considering it was only in that one published revision and not any before or after, it was certainly a bad merge.

The guy who found that line of code must have screamed after realizing what happened.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 19:26

apseudonym: Feb 25, 2011

evensevenone posted:

-Wall doesn't include the unreachable code check (at least in GCC, and probably clang).

Now that I think about it, that could have been caused by a hosed up merge; merge tools are good but they're not perfect. In that case it probably would have passed code review (since most teams review diffs). Still, you'd think a unit test / regression test would have caught it.

I'd bet on someone trying to remove an if and forgetting the statement. The diff between versions has a lot of code cleanup.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 19:26

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

https://gist.github.com/alexyakoubian/9151610/revisions (line 631)

There's no other changes near it, so it's not really clear what happened.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 19:31

Dren: Jan 5, 2001; Pillbug

Plorkyeran posted:

https://gist.github.com/alexyakoubian/9151610/revisions (line 631)

There's no other changes near it, so it's not really clear what happened.

My bet is on a copy-paste mistake while refactoring and moving those if statements around.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 20:16

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Dren posted:

My bet is on a copy-paste mistake while refactoring and moving those if statements around.

Alternately, :nsa:

# ? Feb 22, 2014 20:42

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Time for the peanut gallery to weigh in. First up, Nadim Kobeissi, the widely respected 15-year-old crypto genius: http://log.nadim.cc/?p=126

quote:

It�s interesting to note that had the programmer used an initial if statement in that method followed by else if statements, their code would not only most likely be more efficient when compiled, but the second goto fail statement would have been detected as invalid by the compiler. This vulnerability would have then been avoided. But the programmer went for a less efficient method which made the bug possible.

Swing and a miss.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 21:27

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Suspicious Dish posted:

Swing and a miss.

The efficiency claims are dubious, but he's correct in the sense the compiler would've errored due to an else without a previous if.

I would still use braces myself.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 22:08

apseudonym: Feb 25, 2011

Suspicious Dish posted:

Time for the peanut gallery to weigh in. First up, Nadim Kobeissi, the widely respected 15-year-old crypto genius: http://log.nadim.cc/?p=126

Swing and a miss.

Who is this person because they missed the point so drat hard.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 22:18

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadim_Kobeissi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocat#Security_concerns

http://tobtu.com/decryptocat.php

Suspicious Dish fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Feb 22, 2014

# ? Feb 22, 2014 22:27

apseudonym: Feb 25, 2011

Suspicious Dish posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadim_Kobeissi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocat#Security_concerns

Cryptocat still makes me really angry especially how the startup community responded to it being completely broken.

gently caress that guy.

Also if you think an if else is faster than if goto I really have to wonder what you think the compiler output is.

E:if you do build error handling into an if else chain of doom you are a bad person and should feel bad. Very very bad.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 22:29

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Suspicious Dish posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadim_Kobeissi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocat#Security_concerns

http://tobtu.com/decryptocat.php

Saw him talk once, haven't been so angry in a while.

"Look my software isn't great, sure there was that bug that meant all traffic for the last year could be decrypted without a key, It's experimental and people shouldn't use it"

"By the way look at all the people who are using my software, isn't it cool"

or you know what's cool: putting people's lives at stake. that's cool.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 22:32

apseudonym: Feb 25, 2011

tef posted:

Saw him talk once, haven't been so angry in a while.

"Look my software isn't great, sure there was that bug that meant all traffic for the last year could be decrypted without a key, It's experimental and people shouldn't use it"

"By the way look at all the people who are using my software, isn't it cool"

or you know what's cool: putting people's lives at stake. that's cool.

How did you not punch him in the face?

# ? Feb 22, 2014 22:43

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

apseudonym posted:

How did you not punch him in the face?

Human decency and self-restraint?

# ? Feb 22, 2014 22:47

Don Mega: Nov 26, 2005

Throw a shoe at him next time.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 22:49

Coffee Mugshot: Jun 26, 2010; by Lowtax

Coding horrors thread: throwing shoes at 15 year olds

# ? Feb 23, 2014 00:21

Don Mega: Nov 26, 2005

He's 24 years old according to the wiki.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 00:23

evensevenone: May 12, 2001; Glass is a solid.

Plorkyeran posted:

https://gist.github.com/alexyakoubian/9151610/revisions (line 631)

There's no other changes near it, so it's not really clear what happened.

is that the actual revision history, or just the revision history of that gist?

# ? Feb 23, 2014 00:34

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

apseudonym posted:

E:if you do build error handling into an if else chain of doom you are a bad person and should feel bad. Very very bad.

I read it as using "else if" in conjunction with the existing gotos, not in place of the gotos.

Which yeah, would've resulted in a compile error in this particular case. But there's better solutions such that the "else if" commentary wasn't really worth him making.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 00:42

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

evensevenone posted:

is that the actual revision history, or just the revision history of that gist?

Apple provides periodic code dumps of that library, and that's the diff between two of the dumps. There could have been multiple revisions to the file in between the dumps.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 01:02

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

Don Mega posted:

He's 24 years old according to the wiki.

Among my people the tradition is one shoe per year of age.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 02:43

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/SecureTips/status/437636832403001344

# ? Feb 23, 2014 20:36

Internet Janitor: May 17, 2008; "That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."

The manual page for goto in PHP begins with an XKCD comic. Amazing.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 20:41

Hughlander: May 11, 2005

Internet Janitor posted:

The manual page for goto in PHP begins with an XKCD comic. Amazing.

Makes sense both are overused unfunny "jokes" that have long sense outstayed their welcome.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 21:00

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

ultramiraculous posted:

What's funny is you still don't catch this with -Wall. To get -Wunreachable-code turned on you have to compile with -Weverything

The -Wall doesn't turn on all warnings? -Wall and -Weverything do two different things? How is that not a horror?

PHP was rightly ridiculed for exactly the same behaviour.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 21:02

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

qntm posted:

The -Wall doesn't turn on all warnings? -Wall and -Weverything do two different things? How is that not a horror?

And -ansi -pedantic doesn't flag every use of a gcc extension as a warning or error.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 21:07

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Plorkyeran posted:

gcc can't add things to -Wall because that breaks all the terrible projects that have -Werror in their default CFLAGS and the users throw a shitstorm. Clang might be able to get away with it due to that there's a lot less legacy code being compiled with it.

-Weverything also shows that you don't actually want to enable all warnings. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some contradictory warnings.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 21:09

shrughes: Oct 11, 2008; (call/cc call/cc)

There are at least contradictory warnings across different compilers.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 21:35

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

Hughlander posted:

Makes sense both are overused unfunny "jokes" that have long sense outstayed their welcome.

All three of those things, in fact.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 21:39

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Hughlander posted:

Makes sense both are overused unfunny "jokes" that have long sense outstayed their welcome.

What's ridiculous is that PHP uses the xkcd comic as a warning not to use goto, and then never expounds on it. Newbie developers will see that, laugh, and assume that it's an exaggeration, before making awful spaghetti code because they don't know any better.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 21:40

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

Otto Skorzeny posted:

And -ansi -pedantic doesn't flag every use of a gcc extension as a warning or error.

There are vanilla and gnu variations of each language standard using the "-std=c89/gnu89" parameter. But then the man page says "-ansi" is supposed to be equivalent, I guess you should be logging bugs if extensions are not caught.

MrMoo fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Feb 23, 2014

# ? Feb 23, 2014 22:05

Westie: May 30, 2013; Baboon Simulator

Volmarias posted:

What's ridiculous is that PHP uses the xkcd comic as a warning not to use goto, and then never expounds on it. Newbie developers will see that, laugh, and assume that it's an exaggeration, before making awful spaghetti code because they don't know any better.

Whereas all experienced devs will look on at goto for the dinosaur it is.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 22:09

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

MrMoo posted:

There are vanilla and gnu variations of each language standard using the "-std=c89/gnu89" parameter. But then the man page says "-ansi" is supposed to be equivalent, I guess you should be logging bugs if extensions are not caught.

No, filing bugs will accomplish nothing here. It's by design (read: rms diktat) and implied in the name that the -pedantic switch does not work right, cf. the manual:

quote:

`-pedantic' does not cause warning messages for use of the
alternate keywords whose names begin and end with `__'. Pedantic
warnings are also disabled in the expression that follows
`__extension__'. However, only system header files should use
these escape routes; application programs should avoid them.
*Note Alternate Keywords::.

This option is not intended to be useful; it exists only to satisfy
pedants who would otherwise claim that GCC fails to support the
ANSI standard.

Some users try to use `-pedantic' to check programs for strict ANSI
C conformance. They soon find that it does not do quite what they
want: it finds some non-ANSI practices, but not all--only those
for which ANSI C *requires* a diagnostic.

A feature to report any failure to conform to ANSI C might be
useful in some instances, but would require considerable
additional work and would be quite different from `-pedantic'. We
recommend, rather, that users take advantage of the extensions of
GNU C and disregard the limitations of other compilers. Aside
from certain supercomputers and obsolete small machines, there is
less and less reason ever to use any other C compiler other than
for bootstrapping GNU CC."

e: expanded quote slightly

Blotto Skorzany fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Feb 23, 2014

# ? Feb 23, 2014 22:27

karms: Jan 22, 2006; by Nyc_Tattoo; Yam Slacker

Volmarias posted:

What's ridiculous is that PHP uses the xkcd comic as a warning not to use goto, and then never expounds on it. Newbie developers will see that, laugh, and assume that it's an exaggeration, before making awful spaghetti code because they don't know any better.

As if newbies would read the manual.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 22:31

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Otto Skorzeny posted:

e: expanded quote slightly

Dear Oracle: please let suncc die a good death.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 22:47

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

Otto Skorzeny posted:

quote:
We recommend, rather, that users take advantage of the extensions of
GNU C and disregard the limitations of other compilers. Aside
from certain supercomputers and obsolete small machines, there is
less and less reason ever to use any other C compiler other than
for bootstrapping GNU CC."

Hahah, this is even better in the context of his Clang/LLVM post from a while back.

# ? Feb 23, 2014 22:55

Coffee Mugshot: Jun 26, 2010; by Lowtax

Yeah, that's right, I compile with -Wall and -pedantic
Then I get mad and type `python` 'cause I ain't got time for semantics

# ? Feb 23, 2014 22:59

Jewel: May 2, 2009

While we're on the topic, I just want to say I love that all the warning flags start with W, because they almost always make words. I always pronounce them as they're written, so "wall", "weverything", "wunreachable" :3:

# ? Feb 23, 2014 23:13

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# ? May 17, 2024 14:29

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

You can't spell -funroll-loops without 'fun'!

# ? Feb 23, 2014 23:25

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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