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7thBatallion posted:It's generally all cool, just don't be a dick about it. Individual Lodge practices may vary. The KoC in my church parish always gently caress up the catfish at the Lenten fish fry so on that basis alone I'm willing to give it a go when I'm at a point in my life I can mete out time and money for something like Freemasonry. Thanks for the replies all. Good information to keep in mind when I finally do reach out to a lodge regarding membership.
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Feb 17, 2014 21:12
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There's some lodges in the US that will be extremely Christian or at least very monotheistic, and that's understandable given that Masonry is comprised of human men, often from the same community, so it tends to take on the flavor of those communities. Bible Belt Lodges tend to be more leaning towards Christendom, while others are more accepting universally. Aside from a single answer to a single question in the first ritual, what your specific beliefs are are largely irrelevant. I'm Buddhist, and while I acknowledge that there are deities, I don't consider them omnipotent or omniscient and so on. I can justify the question of a belief in God though with my understanding of primordial emptiness out of which things arise through cause and effect, the Dharmakaya, the Primordial Buddha, etc. In the end, it will never come up - I answered everything honestly when I was initiated and continue to be able to do so now. The ritual is heavily steeped in the Biblical story of the building of the Temple of Solomon. It's not generally accepted as fact, but it's allegorical ritual. If you're heavily turned off by the use of symbolism and story as allegory to convey moral points, or you're particularly touchy about what stories and allegories are used, then you might not be a great match for Masonry, but if you're able to look at stories and syphon out the meaning then you should be fine. Masonry is extremely filial, and nobody has the right to ask you anything about religion other than the required questions in your initiation. I generally just let dudes talk religion. I've been in the secretary's office at my mother Lodge when dudes were talking about how Islam isn't really the same God blah blah and I've taken up for Islam in general, but I usually just let dudes talk their talk and be done with it. This was in the Bible Belt. In Maryland I'm put off by language about the resurrection of the eternal soul, which I don't adhere to, but that language wasn't in my initiation, so it's not really relevant, and nobody can really call me on it. I think you'd get other answers from other dudes about whether or not they think people can be Masons without being monotheists, but really Masonry is about developing moral character and the ability to discern and decide for oneself anyways. I've heard it said that basically the goal of Masonry isn't to make you follow a particular religion, it's to make you follow your own religion better, and I think that's accurate. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 21:13
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Who Dat posted:The KoC in my church parish always gently caress up the catfish at the Lenten fish fry so on that basis alone I'm willing to give it a go when I'm at a point in my life I can mete out time and money for something like Freemasonry. Go to a Lodge anyways. Find when dinner is, get in touch with one of the Officers, head over, eat food, ask questions, then repeat like, three more times. Meet different lodges, one may not be that good for your particular interests, while another one a town over may be friggin' perfect. I want to two lodges before I settled on Ashler, the food at Ashler wasn't as good as Kirkland, but the people were ten times cooler. Kicking members of the lodge out of meetings for wearing opposing team jerseys on game nights just to make them have to sign in multiple times, rocking out at beer festivals, basically running the Bothell 4th of July parade, setting up concerts in the local park, running a Bikes for Education program, running, hosting, and owning the State Masonic Chili Cook-off for the past 4 years, making bets during meetings where the stakes are shaving your beard into horrible patterns, nearly weekly family game nights where the lodge members, guests, and family come down and play classic board games, and near mandatory summer weekend cigar parties at the WMs place. BYOB. I saw the schedule and basically fell in love. tl;dr Eat, drink, and be merry. Edit: I'm just gonna quote this anytime someone asks what Lodge to join or if it's right for them. Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 21:24
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Also, certain lodges have different nights and times meetings are at. They are typically once a month, held at night, and on what I've seen to be Thursdays. Your mileage may vary. That also plays heavily into which Lodge you join. Meetings are the heart of what we do. It's basically procedure (it's p. cool) and voting on budgets and events. The opening and closing procedure is frigging awesome and I wish I could link you to a video of what it's like. But spoilers. There's a lot that plays in, but what matters is that you like the lodge, both location and members, and can make it to meetings. Get that down and you're set. Oh, initiation fees. The $200 varies, and most of it goes to operating fees. Buildings aren't cheap, and that's not to mention that you basically get a mentor to bring you through the ranks. There's quite a bit of memorization that goes into it, but a Lodge Officer will be assigned to you to teach you the ropes. You also get a snazzy leather apron that you eventually get buried with. I've seen it twice now. It doesn't hit you until you see the apron on a coffin and the first person sets an evergeeen sprig on it. The initiation fee covers you from well, initiation to death.  READ MENow I'd also recommend you check out the KoC and any other groups you may be thinking of joining. Don't be afraid to test the waters elsewhere, and don't join on a whim. This is a lifetime commitment and if your heart isn't in it, it's not worth it for you. We aren't the only fraternal organization out there, there's ones that make us look informal and there's ones that are basically a bar that gives to charity constantly. It's not my job to tell you to join. It's just my job to explain every friggin' thing to anyone that's interested. I'd be glad to point you towards other groups like us if you want. I'm gonna edit this as I think of new things. There's a lot to say. Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 21:43
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QPZIL posted:Personally, I have a much less tenuous definition of "God" than most would. But, the one question you're asked before being initiated, is if you believe in a higher power that rewards good and punishes evil. I was not asked that. It's one of those things that varies by jurisdiction. Something to keep in mind is that the Catholic Church has deemed being a Freemason a sin (or something? I'm not Catholic I don't know how it works), and you can't take communion if you're a Freemason. Of course no one in the United States gives a rat's rear end, because like everything else we do, we cling to our American Exceptionalism. But if you're a devout Catholic, that's something you should think about. E: Also, if you don't care, but like both, do both!
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Feb 18, 2014 00:41
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Who Dat posted:I think I posted in an older ask/tell thread about freemasonry, so hello again! I'm not a mason, but I'm more curious than anything else. I remember someone likened lodge meetings to spaghetti dinners, probably in this thread. Is it accurate to assume that freemasonry is akin to a nondenominational Knights of Columbus? If this is an oversimplification, I do apologize, I'm just wondering what I'd be getting myself into if I actually pursued becoming a mason. No one has mentioned it yet, but another difference is that the KoC are actively seeking the holy grail whereas the freemasons are actively concealing it. Other than that, there are a lot of similarities and you should check 'em both out. My own experience as someone born and raised catholic and becoming a freemason is that some of my kin folk decided I'd gone over to Satan's side of the table. It was really weird. I didn't go the KoC route because, frankly, I didn't even know they existed. I therefor cannot comment on KoC vittles. The kin came around eventually, maybe failing to ignite at the communion alter helped with that.
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Feb 18, 2014 05:14
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QPZIL posted:But, the one question you're asked before being initiated, is if you believe in a higher power that rewards good and punishes evil. Our ritual isn't this specific with this part either. Ours is much more vague and generalized. Wording it like this gives the concept a much more anthropomorphic hue, which I don't subscribe to at all. Oh and just to throw my hat in the ring as another person who isn't Christian but is still a Mason... I don't think there is an actual person (God) in an actual place (heaven) judging actions and rewarding/punishing them accordingly. I view that whole idea from a more eastern-thought perspective of an energy force that rewards good and punishes evil through a karma type thing. In the end, it all comes down to you being honest with yourself and with the members of the lodge because as many people in this thread have already said, if you join as a full-fledged atheist or whatever else similar you want to call it, you are going to get bored with our "secrets" and rituals reeeeeeeeeeally quick. So, you're really just doing yourself a disservice at that point.
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Feb 18, 2014 05:28
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Off topic, but last night I essentially volunteered by accident to do the FC lecture for my lodge going forward, and now have 30 days until the first time it's needed. Hoo boy.
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Feb 18, 2014 14:40
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Off topic, but Emron every time you post I want to change my avatar back to this: But then I just start feeling bitter about the 2010 BCS.
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Feb 18, 2014 17:56
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Off topic, but Emron every time you post I want to change my avatar back to this: Rest easy thinking about how my school lost our shot this year to a play that will run on TV specials for decades, then dropped a bowl game to Oklahoma. It was the long revenge of Colt McCoy's hosed Up Shoulder.
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Feb 18, 2014 18:36
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That wound was mostly healed by a Seahawks superbowl.
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Feb 18, 2014 18:52
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Polymemetic, I'm interested to know what your Volume is, please.
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Feb 20, 2014 02:23
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Whee! Back in Lodge for the first time in over a year. Man, I missed these guys. I'll post some pics of the lodge room when the the Very Worshipful Richard Beers II, District Secretary to the Grand Lodge of Washington, Free and Accepted Masons gets out of his meeting. P.S. I love his title. Welcome to Ashler Lodge #121, F&AM http://i.imgur.com/OAJH86t.jpg (sorry, on app. Can't see sizes.) Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Feb 21, 2014 |
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Feb 21, 2014 02:50
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Ouch my tables!
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Feb 21, 2014 15:49
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Thanks for reminding me I owe the GLoW a small pile of money. I should get on that.
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Feb 21, 2014 18:09
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7thBatallion posted:
Use [timg] whenever posting from Awful, otherwise phone pics always end up huge.
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Feb 21, 2014 21:21
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Thanks for reminding me I owe the GLoW a small pile of money. I should get on that. Took me a moment to realize you weren't talking about the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling. That's what I get for reading in reverse order.
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Feb 22, 2014 01:37
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Obviously not, he owes them a large pile of money.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:01
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General question then for any Buddhists who can help me, what do you consider your sacred text? I've seen differing views amongst some, but does anybody have any direction for me?
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Feb 22, 2014 15:50
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I admit that I'm kind of frustrated by the application process to join Eastern Star. I've been in touch with my local lodge since July, had my male relative's status confirmed, turned in my paperwork in December, and was told I would get initiated this month or by March without hearing many details. I didn't want to come across as pushy or nosy, so I didn't press for details on anything else I needed to do. I've been going to the social potlucks before meetings and getting to know everyone in the mean time. At the last potluck, I asked someone about it, and apparently the chapter's worthy matron had the impression that I was visiting from another chapter. She had no idea I was trying to join, even though I've been talking to one of the members (a former worthy matron) and the lodge secretary about this for months now. She seemed kind of flustered and said they would do a vote tonight, then I would meet with a committee and then have something done in the first week of April. I asked her if it could be later on in April, since I have travel plans that can't be changed for the entire first week, and so it's probably going to be May. I mean, I hate to complain about this because I do like making friends, I am glad that they've hosted me and let me hang out with them, and I've felt this organization could be a good influence on me. It's just kind of confusing that they seem so disorganized. I guess I just have to be patient.
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Feb 22, 2014 19:01
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legsarerequired posted:
I'd talk to the WM of the lodge. Might be able to help clarify things for the ladies at the Eastern Star. Or whoever it is that works with them. I'm not familiar with the Eastern Star, so forgive my lack of knowledge. I can't get involved til I'm 3rd Degree. Alternately, If you are really off put, don't be afraid of asking another chapter for advice. I went to a few lodges finding my way. No harm in asking for outside help. jrgnsn_tjf posted:General question then for any Buddhists who can help me, what do you consider your sacred text? I've seen differing views amongst some, but does anybody have any direction for me? You can't go wrong with the Morals and Dogma of Jesus of Nazareth. All the morals with none of the miracles or supernatural. It's great for Deists, should work for you. If that's not your style the Tipitaka would work fine, as would Dhammapadra for the Mahay-ana. Personally I'd put the laws of thermodynamics and physical laws of the universe. But that's just me. I got other ideas, but I got to check if it's in plain text or not. Can't give away too many secrets. (it's in plain text, AFAIK I'm all good.) Look to the furniture of the lodge. Think of the Square as Buddha, teaching wisdom and compassion as should the Master. Think of the Bible as The Dharma, truth. The nature of Dharma works well with The Bible, much less any Holy book, you don't have to believe it to know what it means to people. That's how I use the Bible. Think of the Compass as the craft as a whole, or Sangha as it were. It's us working towards awakening and spiritual enlightenment. P.S. If anyone complains about your choice of book, they can suck it. Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 04:57
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When I was a youngster, maybe 8 or 9, I ended up at a Masonic meeting with a family friend who was looking after me for a week. It was mixed gender and the titles of Grand Matron and Grand Patron were thrown around. There was lots of ritualistic minutiae. Nobody could cross the room when the Bible was open. Was this The Order of the Eastern Star, probably? It's just this weird old memory I have. It seemed like the women really ran things, which now that I've read this thread I see may be a consolation of sorts, "Haha! You're not really masons, but you can be in charge of pretend mason meeting!" Mr. Belding fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 05:16
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Mr. Belding posted:Grand Matron and Grand Patron Yep, exactly. And it may seem like what you described, but in my area the Eastern Star is actually really well respected. The Eastern Star and Rainbow Girls (like Girl Scouts but for daughters of Masons) do a lot of fund raising for charity around here.
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Feb 23, 2014 05:19
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Mr. Belding posted:When I was a youngster, maybe 8 or 9, I ended up at a Masonic meeting with a family friend who was looking after me for a week. It was mixed gender and the titles of Grand Matron and Grand Patron thrown around. There was lots of ritualistic minutiae. Nobody could cross the room when the Bible was open. Yeah, that's totally Eastern Star. drat good people. I think our Secretary is the Grand Patron. And they are hardly pretend Masons. If anyone thinks them less than a Mason, they are failing miserably at what they came here to do. Eastern Star at my Lodge has as many, If not more events than we do, and a larger presence. You get Job's Daughters and Rainbows in the mix and the women outnumber us five to one at our Lodge. And that's including DeMolay. The Jobies just initiated five people last meeting. They are growing faster than most any Lodge in the state. We've had to remodel near constantly to accommodate their sheer numbers.
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Feb 23, 2014 05:24
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7thBatallion posted:And they are hardly pretend Masons. If anyone thinks them less than a Mason, they are failing miserably at what they came here to do. Maybe not less than, but the OP goes to great lengths to say that Masonry is craft Masonry and that women aren't accepted. In fact to be a member of these appendant bodies women must apparently be married to or related to Masons (so it is only because of their relationship to a male craft mason that they are masons at all). I mean... doesn't it speak for itself?
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Feb 23, 2014 05:39
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Mr. Belding posted:Maybe not less than, but the OP goes to great lengths to say that Masonry is craft Masonry and that women aren't accepted. In fact to be a member of these appendant bodies women must apparently be married to or related to Masons (so it is only because of their relationship to a male craft mason that they are masons at all). This is for Eastern Star. I'll look up what the Jobies need to join. These affiliations include: * Affiliated Master Masons in good standing, * the wives * daughters * legally adopted daughters * mothers * widows * sisters * half sisters * granddaughters * stepmothers * stepdaughters * stepsisters * daughters-in-law * grandmothers * great granddaughters * nieces * great nieces * mothers-in-law * sisters-in-law and daughters of sisters or brothers of affiliated Master Masons in good standing, or if deceased were in good standing at the time of their death" As well as Job's Daughters and Rainbow Girls of age and in good standing to join. Here's what you need to be a Jobie. 1. To be known as Job's Daughters. 2. Membership to be composed of developing girls who believe in God and bear a Masonic relationship. 3. The meeting place to be called a Bethel. 4. The teachings based on the "Book of Job" (with special reference to the 42nd Chapter: 15th Verse). 5. To be taught in three epochs (not degrees). 6. Motto: "Virtue is a quality which highly adorns woman." 7. Requiring all members, guardians and visitors to assume a pledge based on honor. 8. To be a democratic organization with the right of appeal to a supreme authority. with all members and guardians amenable to the laws. 9. A Supreme Guardian Council with Constitution and Bylaws in conformity with landmarks governing Supreme Guardian. Subordinate Guardians and Bethel Members. There are no relation requirements for Rainbow Girls or Job's Daughters. Think of Eastern Star as an extension of these two groups rather than the other way around. Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 05:45
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Take a look at the second Jobie req. Job's Daughters need to have a Masonic relative of some stripe, Rainbows do not. EDIT: The OES is absolutely run by women. The only positions that can't be filled by a woman, the Worthy Patron and Associate Worthy, don't do much of anything except when initiating new members. Mr. Maltose fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 06:38
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Mr. Maltose posted:Take a look at the second Jobie req. Job's Daughters need to have a Masonic relative of some stripe, Rainbows do not. Pretty loose either way. It goes through marriage two generation back*. And most fraternal organizations have strict requirements. Ours is no different. If the lodge dedicates time and effort to support the girls and women's groups, helps fund, though our own reserves, their trips and events, and treats them no different than we treat each other, does it matter in the end? *requirements for membership include girls between the ages of 10 and 20 who are direct descendants of a Master Mason, adopted daughters by law, step-daughters, step-granddaughters, sisters, half-sisters, step-sisters, sisters-in-law, nieces, grandnieces, or first or second cousins of a Master Mason or so related to his wife or widow, or who are daughters, step-daughters, granddaughters, or step-granddaughters or Majority Members of Job's Daughters International P.S. I'm still pretty early on in my work, I've read through my workbooks and had many, many discussions with various goings on with the guys at Lodge. I'm by no means an expert, just giving my 2ยข Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 07:05
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7thBatallion posted:Pretty loose either way. It goes through marriage two generation back*. And most fraternal organizations have strict requirements. Ours is no different. If the lodge dedicates time and effort to support the girls and women's groups, helps fund, though our own reserves, their trips and events, and treats them no different than we treat each other, does it matter in the end? You're rationalizing as hard as you possibly can. "Does it matter if we value women based upon their male relatives rather than as individuals?" Well I don't know, genius. Does it? quote:And most fraternal organizations have strict requirements. Ours is no different. And a nice dose of "But everybody else does it!" This isn't an attack on Masonry or yourself directly. I mean you didn't make the rules. No living Mason did. And yeah, yeah, "They can't be changed." Suffice it to say, if people wanted to change it badly enough, they would. Those who have apparently have aren't real masons. I guess holding a morally superior position isn't what masonry is all about. And clearly there are enough defenders of the old ways it who will stand by it either out of conservatism or actual sexism. Whatever. I don't care. I'm a member of a fraternity, and while the lines make a little more sense when you are talking about living quarters for oversexed 18-22 year olds, as I've gotten older I've mostly moved to a position where I feel like those divides are wrong. From a mission standpoint my fraternity would be strengthened by women membership, even if it meant separate housing for collegiate members. They even have a similar appendant organization for wives and girlfriends, and even at the age of 19 I was insightful enough to find it gross and paternalistic. My gf is cooler than me and any group that would want her just because she's with me rather than because she's awesome doesn't deserve her. The same probably goes for mason's wives and daughters. edit: Don't know why I wrote that much for someone who didn't make it point 2 of the list he personally researched and copy-pasted. Probably won't be read. Mr. Belding fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 08:04
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Mr. Belding posted:You're rationalizing as hard as you possibly can. Nah, I read your post. You got good points. And I misread point 2. I'm loving tired and hungry, which is no excuse for poor reading comprehension so I'll take the blame. That's on me. We've had so many new people join in I assumed it was open. That's what I get for making assumptions. But it just makes an rear end out of me. Again, I misread. It actually irks me a bit. I thought the ones for the kids was somewhat more open. It doesn't get new blood interested, just bloodlines. I suppose it makes sense in context, but still. It's not like DeMolay where it's basically a straight shot into full on Masonry. That one makes sense at least. But I'm sure someone will come in the morning and correct the living hell out of me. I don't doubt it. Oh, and I'd rather copy/paste than retype. It's easier when I'm already writing a wall of text. (and some of that "rationalizing" was quick last second edits to respond to your post. I edit all the time. Hell, I've edited this post over half a dozen times already. It's better than making a ton of posts and making GBS threads up a thread more than I already do.) I'd love to see a way to open up the auxiliaries to non-masonic families, at least now that I know the rules correctly. It would be nice to have the ranks open. Again, it's not like it's a straight shot into Masonry. And while I would have no problem with coed Masonry the rules will probably never change in my lifetime. For either. I'd have to rise up the ranks to a position I neither desire or want and change the minds of every single Master in the state that radically changing the rules and risking the loss of recognition from the rest of the nation and the world is in their best interest. Which would be drat near impossible. In the meantime I'll (over a week or so. New job and training takes my days up. Plus general laziness) I'll look up some fraternal orgs that fit the criteria you're thinking of. If you find one before me, just PM me. I'd love to look over their info. I've made it something of a side quest to talk to members of the Elks and Eagles and picked up some literature and contact numbers for the local Knights of Columbus (not a Catholic, just curious) and the Sons of Norway. I figure it's good to know options and be able to tell someone what might fit them best. I'm not afraid of telling someone that maybe there's something that will fit them better. Old customer service habits die hard. And you're not attacking Masonry. You are pointing out old rules that could, at least in my mind, go for a bit of an update. Hearing dissenting opinions is something no one should be afraid of, and a good discussion is always welcome. If you want to run things by me, feel free to PM me. I'm always game for a good chat. That goes for everyone in the thread. And as I always say, I'm still early on in my path. There may be things later on in my degrees that explains things or skews my opinions. There's a hell of a lot I'm not privy to. Take what I see as a fresh face that's still learning, but not afraid to ask questions. Hey, Waffle? Was anything I've said in this thread accurate at all? Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 09:08
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jrgnsn_tjf posted:General question then for any Buddhists who can help me, what do you consider your sacred text? I've seen differing views amongst some, but does anybody have any direction for me? The Dhammapada (which is a pan-tradition text, contrary to what 7thBatallion said) is my stand in, because using the actual Buddhist canon would be really unwieldy.
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Feb 23, 2014 09:15
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Bottom line on OES is they're an appendant body of Masonry, founded for the female relatives of Masons, in order to be part of our Masonic order. They aren't a "ladies auxilary" per se, but neither are they "their own thing." It is entirely reasonable to require appendant bodies of Masonry to have a relation to Masonry. Whether you agree with Masonry's stance on woman membership or not, I see no reason why OES should accept non-Masonic relative members and so on. There's no need for an apologetic here, because it's an appendant body of Masonry, so members should be related to Masons. Regarding Buddhist texts on the altar, I honestly just leave the Bible up there. Its symbolic meaning as the volume of sacred law is fine (its nature is emptiness, after all). If you wanted something more personal, Dhammapada is probably your best bet. The rest of the Pali canon is, as noted, a bit unwieldy, and I wouldn't want brothers going through my tantric texts.
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Feb 23, 2014 15:12
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Paramemetic posted:Whether you agree with Masonry's stance on woman membership or not, I see no reason why OES should accept non-Masonic relative members and so on. There's no need for an apologetic here, because it's an appendant body of Masonry, so members should be related to Masons. Yes, I get that you are okay with judging a person based on their relations. I'm just saying that I'm not. You clearly think it's a defensible stance. I think it's weird for self-proclaimed buddhist to be so attached various forms of identity and historical trappings from the 1600s, so I doubt it's possible for us to see eye-to-eye.
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Feb 23, 2014 17:29
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Paramemetic posted:Bottom line on OES is they're an appendant body of Masonry, founded for the female relatives of Masons, in order to be part of our Masonic order. They aren't a "ladies auxilary" per se, but neither are they "their own thing." It is entirely reasonable to require appendant bodies of Masonry to have a relation to Masonry. Whether you agree with Masonry's stance on woman membership or not, I see no reason why OES should accept non-Masonic relative members and so on. There's no need for an apologetic here, because it's an appendant body of Masonry, so members should be related to Masons. First, as mentioned earlier, majority Rainbow Girls can join OES. There is no Masonic relation necessary to join Rainbow. Secondly, this very topic has been talked about at the past couple of Supreme Grand Chapter sessions. It seems quite likely, from the people I've been talking to, that the requirement for a Masonic relation will be removed, in whole or in part, at the next sessions.
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Feb 23, 2014 17:40
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Mr. Belding posted:Yes, I get that you are okay with judging a person based on their relations. I'm just saying that I'm not. You clearly think it's a defensible stance. I think it's weird for self-proclaimed buddhist to be so attached various forms of identity and historical trappings from the 1600s, so I doubt it's possible for us to see eye-to-eye. Hasn't this issue been addressed enough? Complaining about it to people that can't/won't change it is nothing more than a waste of time. Will you not let these people talk about secret handshakes and brotherhood in peace?
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Feb 23, 2014 17:41
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jrgnsn_tjf posted:General question then for any Buddhists who can help me, what do you consider your sacred text? I've seen differing views amongst some, but does anybody have any direction for me? The tyler of our lodge is Buddhist, but did his degrees with the bible. I later asked him why, and he replied that there was universal wisdom in all the holy books, and essentially they were just symbols.
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Feb 23, 2014 17:42
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Ultimate Shrek Fan posted:Hasn't this issue been addressed enough? Complaining about it to people that can't/won't change it is nothing more than a waste of time. Will you not let these people talk about secret handshakes and brotherhood in peace? Someone started a conversation about it with me. I was trying to identify a masonic meeting from my childhood.
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Feb 23, 2014 18:19
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Mr. Belding posted:Yes, I get that you are okay with judging a person based on their relations. I'm just saying that I'm not. You clearly think it's a defensible stance. I think it's weird for self-proclaimed buddhist to be so attached various forms of identity and historical trappings from the 1600s, so I doubt it's possible for us to see eye-to-eye. I'm not judging a person. I'm not saying "oh, people without masonic relations are inferior people and unworthy to join OES." I'm saying that they are not eligible, just as I am not eligible to join Knights of Columbus, or the Junior League, or the Sons of the American Revolution. It says nothing of their character, and is in no way a judgment. Similarly I don't consider my not being allowed to join the American Veterans of Foreign Wars, or the Sons of the American Revolution a judgment. If they remove the Masonic requirement, it will cease to be a Masonic appendant body. There's nothing wrong with that. The Shriners are going the same way. It does not bother me because there's nothing intrinsically better about people who have Masonic relations than those who don't. Presently, however, it is an appendant body thus has those requirements. You tend to read a lot of hostility and judgment into posts where there is none intended. I hope this has clarified it enough. There's not much left to add to the subject I think. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 20:47
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Cholmondeley posted:The tyler of our lodge is Buddhist, but did his degrees with the bible. I later asked him why, and he replied that there was universal wisdom in all the holy books, and essentially they were just symbols. Your tyler is a cool guy.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:52
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| # ? May 15, 2024 19:46 |
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That's basically the same view I have.
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Feb 24, 2014 18:09
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