TheMcD posted:I swear, one more faction starting up and I'm going to make my own faction after this round of voting. i'm already working on the banner of my faction you see we're landed and assimilated vangarians so instead of a normal chi rho, it's a rho with two crossed axes (no, imagine it much cooler than what you're imagining now) and all the colors are taken from scandinavian flags and it's pretty much all about showing up to the senate completely tanked and armed with clubs and punctuating your resolutions by slamming the clubs on the tables and then getting even more drunk later (if that's even possible???)
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Feb 23, 2014 23:21
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I still think the more important cross-party faction has not been created yet. We still lack a Pretty Borders faction.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:24
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RabidWeasel posted:Guys, Crete isn't going to come back no matter how hard you try, let's just let this thread do its own awesome cool thing without pushing the wacky Senate shenanigans thing too hard Goons are a lot like the Old Romans, we're constantly trying to bring back an often romanticized institution of our glorious past because we remember the grand larger parts of it which were cool.funny/fun, but often forget the long slogs and grinds.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:26
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TheMcD posted:I swear, one more faction starting up and I'm going to make my own faction after this round of voting. Doooooo iiiiiiiiit More seriously, a balkanized Senate is only a problem if the individual factions can't start building coalitions. The Old Romans and the Milvians are a pretty natural coalition; any of the radical fringe parties could conceivably coalition with the New Byzantines; the Komnenians make for natural spoilers. And even if that can't or won't happen... we really have no information whatsoever on how Rincewind is planning on handling fringe parties, potential coalitions, or indeed any choice whatsoever besides 'vote for one of the things I told you to vote for, shitlords.' Hell, we don't even know how (or even if!) he's handling individual nuance; as an Old Roman I'm in favor of taking Rome ASAP, whereas some other Old Romans are a lot less eager to shoot for that particular goal. So in the Old Romans win, will Rome be a target or not? We don't know; only Rincewind does. Which is cool! So honestly, unless and until Rincewind says 'okay all this splinter group stuff is giving me a headache, knock it off'... where's the harm? It's just Goons entertaining themselves between updates. Which would you prefer, honestly - seventy posts by Senators demanding policy goals which may or may not make any drat sense... or forty posts of flagchat and thirty posts of people bitching about flagchat? 
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Feb 23, 2014 23:37
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More like thirty pages of senatechat and ninety pages of senateiconchat. As a true old Roman, I aim for whatever gets people angry enough to start killing senators who aren't me in the streets!
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Feb 23, 2014 23:44
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:any of the radical fringe parties could conceivably coalition with the New Byzantines Hell, they share about half the same goals as the Old Romans! The major disagreement seems to be expanding eastward vs. reconquering territories of the fallen Western Empire.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:48
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:More seriously, a balkanized Senate is only a problem if the individual factions can't start building coalitions. And that there is the most important thing, after all a faction isn't considered truly threatening unless it can garner at least 30% of the senate. DivineCoffeeBinge posted:any of the radical fringe parties could conceivably coalition with the New Byzantines Do it radicals. 
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Feb 23, 2014 23:49
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 I am all for a coalition with the new Byzantines. Hey, Even the Millavians.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:50
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Flesnolk posted:Hell, they share about half the same goals as the Old Romans! The major disagreement seems to be expanding eastward vs. reconquering territories of the fallen Western Empire. Not even that much: we New Byzantines simply want to expand where it makes most strategic interest at the time --- which sometimes may include lands of the West, we just do not prioritize them.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:53
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 Quite frankly I am willing to work with any of my colleagues who seek to expand eastward, even the Milvians. Pushing west will merely spoil what few opportunities for alliances and diplomacy we have left to us, however. Obviously when it comes to religious policy, there are differences between ourselves and the Milvians (and etc.), but in terms of purely military affairs an eastern push is a wholly reasonable thing to support.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:54
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HenessyHero posted:
 I have to admit I deeply admire the New Byzantine policy of toleration for religious and ethnic minorities! You know, considering. Islam also tells us to be cool to People of the Book, so ya'll can expect the favor to be returned! Please don't murder us.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:57
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Registering and voting for New Byzantines.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:59
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Senators, I feel there are some platforms we can all agree on: 1. Unceasing war against the Turk 2. Alliances with orthodox nations 3. The maintenance of the Kataphractoi 4. Immediate conversion to Catholicism Since I hear you shouting from here, let us simply adopt the first three policies as a starting point for useful debate.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:06
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Doooooo iiiiiiiiit For this election, Euphrosyne (and her successors if she drops dead in the middle of the next update) will just be favoring whatever party wins the most votes, even if it's not an absolute majority. The general idea, though, is that the Senate will gradually increase in power and organizational complexity as the LP goes on— until they manage to gently caress everything up and their power gets rolled back. So in the future, I'm going to try to think of a mechanism for parties to pool their votes into coalitions or whatever.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:07
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What's interesting about all this is if you look at the vote totals, the New Romans are actually remaining pretty strong, if not stronger than they were before (if my vote is right). It's really the New Byzantines which are bleeding all over the place because of all these new factions. I suppose when your own creedo is 'new is better', without any defining definition of what 'new' is, then people can tend to define new however they want. As always, there is only one Rome.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:16
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Gentlemen, I choose to take this news with one new vision. I think it can be summed up with the phrase "Divide and Conquer." Soon I shall begin my most ambitious political move yet, creating not one, not two, not three, but ten new parties, all to advance the glory of Rome!  And if you believe this, there's this lovely new bridge across the Bosporus that I would be quite willing to part with.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:17
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We just need to form a "gently caress the Turks" party.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:17
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theblastizard posted:We just need to form a "gently caress the Turks" party. That already exists: 
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Feb 24, 2014 00:26
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theblastizard posted:We just need to form a "gently caress the Turks" party. That sounds very much like an Old Roman/Milvian coalition.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:29
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I think everyone except the party who wants Byzantium to convert to Islam wants the Turks to be hosed.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:34
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Gnooble posted:That sounds very much like an Old Roman/Milvian coalition. Maybe we can get the Mongols in on this coalition too 
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Feb 24, 2014 00:34
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Vote for New Byzantines Fellow senators, you must see that the New Byzantines are the the only real long-term choice. This is not the same empire that was ruled by Augustus or Hadrian. No, Byzantium is its own nation, with its own history and goals. We cannot permit the regressive agendas of the Old Romans or the Milvians to take hold: to turn and wage war on the rest of Christendom, while leaving the Turks to grow in strength at our backs, is tantamount to suicide. No, let the Catholics lay still. Our future lies in Anatolia, in the Caucasus, in the Levant, and beyond! As for those who wish to see our national religion changed, this too is foolishness. The T.R.A.I.T.O.R.S. wish to see us acknowledge the primacy of the Bishop of Rome; they claim this will help us forge alliances with the Latins, Franks, and Germans. I need only point you to the Kingdom of England to show you how foolish this is: the Catholics are not some unified block that will accept and support us the second we kneel to Rome. No, alliances are formed by intermarrying two ruling families, and any ruler in the Christian world should be proud to marry into a family as renown as the Komnenos! No, I question the exact motives of these T.R.A.I.T.O.R.S. The Guiding Light are equally perplexing: while being Catholic may not make all Catholics our allies, being Muslim will assuredly make all Christians our enemies. They will descend upon Greece with as much fury as they did the Holy Land, if not more, and wrest the core of our power from our hands. And the Turks will not be likely to jump to our aid, as decades of warfare and political assassinations will not be forgiven simply by swapping all copies of the Holy Bible for the Koran. Converting to Islam assuredly holds our destruction. However, there is something we can take away from the Guiding Light: this is not a homogenous Empire, and it will continue to get even more diverse as we conquer more and more of Anatolia. This is not just an Empire of Greeks and Orthodox Christians: there are Turks, Bulgarians, Cumans, Muslims, Jews, and many more than can even be described. We must accept this diversity, as it is what makes us truly unique and great!
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Feb 24, 2014 00:37
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theblastizard posted:We just need to form a "gently caress the Turks" party. Yeah, gently caress the Turks! Those decadent, squabbling tyrants have disgraced Islam's good name! I'm sure our esteemed Empress would be much better at ruling in accordance with Islamic principles then those spoiled children.
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Feb 24, 2014 00:39
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  Fellow Senators of all inclinations, even all faiths, heretic and barbarian alike, I propose a political coalition we can All get behind. Those who favour the steppe, those who favour reclaiming our old glories, those who wish to forge new ones, those who wish to march out under the Milvian balls, Papist keys or Mahommedan crescents, we all have one thing in common: We see the Empire, and we want it to be bigger, stronger and over a wider area. To this end, I propose the Expansionist Coalition, a cross-party initiative dedicated to painting the map in Imperial purple. We may not agree on where to go first, but we are all agreed to go. Onward, for a Greater Empire ruled by a greater Constantinople! Expansionist Coalition. We want more land!
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Feb 24, 2014 00:56
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NewMars posted:Well, except the Kommenians. Or should I say the Kommedians. The only thing they agree on is drink order and sleeping in til' noon.  No, you idiot. No, we don't agree on either of those, but then it matters little. It seems you fundamentally misunderstand our glorious faction, which is understandable as military men often seem to have taken a few too many blows to the head to able to properly understand things around them. The only thing we do agree on and the only thing we need agree on is the complete and utter primacy of the Komenian dynasty and their supreme fitness to rule, completely independent of any mewling and blabbing of the senate, which is full of various and sundry sycophants, spies, idiots, papists, turks, zealots, plebs and cretins of different shapes and sizes, seemingly only united by their ability to spend inordinate amounts of time arguing about the most trivial of matters when there simply is no need for a debate; the dynasty can and will make do and make us great again and undoubtably lead us into an even more glorious tomorrow without any intervention from the senate. We, at best, come up with ideas fit for them to pick up and use for their own, and so it behooves us to suggest a wide variety of ideas, as most of the senators themselves certainly aren't fit to rule our senate lavatories, rather less the Empire. That's what a Kommenian is and why we indulge in our little luxuries: we, the Byzantines, are fated to succeed. And while it may be delayed by various things, like the unruliness of the douxes or the turk or even the little Catholics, they can no more stop the eventual primacy of our Empire than a toad may stop the rising sun.
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Feb 24, 2014 01:17
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Rincewind posted:The general idea, though, is that the Senate will gradually increase in power and organizational complexity as the LP goes on— until they manage to gently caress everything up and their power gets rolled back. So in the future, I'm going to try to think of a mechanism for parties to pool their votes into coalitions or whatever. So until the emperor decides we're no longer useful, then, and because we didn't pass a constitution or bill of rights, sucks be to us? ChrisAsmadi fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 01:24
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lenoon posted:
Senator Lenoon, I am curious to hear your stance on the Pontiff of Rome. Where do the T.R.A.I.T.O.R.S stand on converting to Catholicism and installing our own pontiff on the papal throne in order to control the affairs of all Christendom?
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Feb 24, 2014 03:06
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occipitallobe posted:Senator Lenoon, I am curious to hear your stance on the Pontiff of Rome. Where do the T.R.A.I.T.O.R.S stand on converting to Catholicism and installing our own pontiff on the papal throne in order to control the affairs of all Christendom? Personally speaking, that sounds workable enough. We would reconcile ourselves to Rome, maintain a strong religious relationship with Latin Christendom and gain influence throughout all of Christendom. I imagine that if our We'd be able to bolster our diplomatic ties with the Latins and gain Rome at the same time. It's a solid plan.
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Feb 24, 2014 03:26
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ChrisAsmadi posted:So until the emperor decides we're no longer useful, then, and because we didn't pass a constitution or bill of rights, sucks be to us? Consti-what? What is this nonsense of which you speak?
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Feb 24, 2014 03:32
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I don't know what that is either, but I bet a "Bill of Rights" is like an invoice from the Empire informing the citizens of the various duties and tributes we owe it, according to it's sovereign right to rule over us. I'm all for that! Better bookkeeping can only improve the situation!
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Feb 24, 2014 03:43
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ChrisAsmadi posted:So until the emperor decides we're no longer useful and because we didn't pass a constitution or bill of rights, sucks be to us? οἱ μῶροι Κομνενιες ἀν γελοίως λέγοιεν ὅτι ἄρχων γνήσιος μόνον ἐκπέμψει τήν ἐκκλησίαν εἰ τινες συνόδοι πάρα ἡμᾶς τέξοιεν τοσαύτην ταραχήν ὥστε τὸ ἐκπέμπειν δεῖν σῴζειν τήν τῆς ἀρχῆς ἀσφάλειαν. οὐ δῆτα ὁ σύνοδος ὁ τῆς ταραχής Κομνενιων ἐστι· δήπου οἱ κόλακες καὶ οἱ συκοφάνται οὐκ αἴτιοι εἰσιν. μέν οὖν αἰτιάσονται τούς ἄλλους· τούς σύνοδούς βουλεύμασι φιλοτιμίᾳ τε ὑπέρ τῆς ἀρχῆς, καίτοι τὸ ἔχειν ἐκείνα ἴδια, τὸ παρέχειν, τὸ μηχανᾶσθαι ἐστ᾽ ἡ αὐτή τάξις ἡ τῶν βουλευτῶν. οὕτως τυφλοί Ἄτῆς τε καὶ Ἐλπίδος ἕνεκα ὥστε νομίζουσι τήν ἀρχῆν θεραπεύειν, ἐναντίως πράσσοντες. ἐξίστασθαι αἰτίαν σοφία οὐκ ἐστι· ἐστ᾽ ἀδικία εἰς πάντα Ῥωμαῖον. μνησθῶμεν τούς Ὀλύμπιου Περικλεους ἔπους· μόνοι γὰρ τόν τε μηδὲν τῶνδε μετέχοντα οὐκ ἀπράγμονα, ἀλλ᾽ ἀχρεῖον νομίζομεν. Κομνενιες, ἐστ' οὗτοι ἰδιῶται· λείπετε. ἐστ᾽ αὗται προδόται· λείπετε. ἐν τῇ τῆς ἀρχῆς Ἐκκλησίᾳ, ἐστ᾽ ἀχρεῖοι · ΛΕΙΠΕΤΕ The foolish Komnenians would say ridiculously that the only reason for an emperor of the blood to suspend the senate would be if factions among us were to cause so much political chaos that it was necessary for the safety of the empire. And most certainly this faction of chaos would not be them: flatterers and sycophants surely cannot cause such upset after all. No, they will blame it on the rest, the parties with purpose and ambition for the empire, when to have those qualities, to express them, to create plans for them is our very duty as senators. They are so blinded by Folly and Hope that they think they serve the empire when they do precisely the opposite. To abdicate responsibility is not wisdom; it is a crime against every Roman. Let us remember the words of Olympian Perikles: For we alone think that one who doesn't partake in public life isn't "just a private individual": he is, in fact, simply useless. Komenenians, you are these private idiots: be gone! You are these traitors: be gone! And in the Imperial Senate, you are useless: BE GONE! That first sentence is the most disgusting sentence I have ever had to compose in Greek and I hate that I wrote English which made me attempt it. It starts at an optative and ἀν and that's the only part which isn't subordinated in indirect speech. gently caress Greek grammar. Sleep of Bronze fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 03:59
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 Steppes and Republics I would like to propose suggestions for some courses of action for which our nation would benefit from. 1. Conquering the coastline of the Black Sea as to completely control trade there. 2. Conquer Cilicia to create a Merchant Republic to profit from trade in the Holy Land. 3. Embargo the Venetians then tear down their trade posts and confiscate the assets within.
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Feb 24, 2014 04:49
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Voting for union with Rome
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Feb 24, 2014 04:51
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Sleep of Bronze posted:The foolish Komnenians would say ridiculously that the only reason for an emperor of the blood to suspend the senate would be if factions among us were to cause so much political chaos that it was necessary for the safety of the empire. It was only through the grace of the first Emperor Alexios that the Senate regained the authority it has today. Only through the grace of a Komnenian Emperor do we have the honor to sit and debate these pressing issues. If a Komnenian Emperor declared that it was in the best interests of the Empire for this August Body to step down, I would relinquish my seat without regrets. I hope the rest of you share this sentiment. Anything else is tantamount to sedition towards the the Emperor and, by natural extension, treasonous activity towards the Roman Empire.
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Feb 24, 2014 04:59
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Blackunknown posted:
Why would we destroy Venice's trade? Can't you see that if we incorporate them into the Empire but leave their influence as it is, it will astronomically increase our wealth and power over the Mediterranean?
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Feb 24, 2014 05:07
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Man, what's the closest thing "gently caress Traitors" party out there? I identified with the Kommenians but then they started saying make all teh Doux one when the most important thing should be loyalty. A blood tie to the royal family from centuries ago is not enough. The patricians seem nice in that they aren't Doux but we've seen that they're just as capable of being filthy traitors. The ABC expansion plan sounds pretty good, maybe add annexing Venice someone in there?
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Feb 24, 2014 05:28
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That'd be us Old Romans, or the Millivans. The Fraternalists are straight-up plutocrats. The new Byzantines are.. well, flexible.
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Feb 24, 2014 05:41
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After listening intently and considering my position, I think that, for the short-term, I'll go along with... The New Byzantines. We don't agree in terms of deep philosophy or longest-term goals, but their general stance in terms of domestic policy and short-term reform and improvement speaks to me. I hold that we're Rome, but we must be a New Rome. Were I a bolder and more knowledgeable senator as to exactly how to achieve this ideal, I'd make a party for that. But for the meantime, I'll just switch parties whenever it seems like one or the other will work better to fulfill it. Woo filthy moderates!
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Feb 24, 2014 05:49
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Flesnolk posted:
Steppes and Republics I am not opposed to annexing Venice, however I feel it is currently too far away to properly defend. Embargoing them is a more short-term plan to obtain money. Annexing Venice is probably a better idea when we have conquered a few more counties in the Adrianic. Blackunknown fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 05:53
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Too far away? Pah! Unless our navy is in a pitiful state indeed since last I checked, it is not a long voyage at all, as close as sailing to the coast of Croatia, and those upstarts would certainly be in no position to stop the Imperial fleet from going where it may! Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 05:58
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