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Eddain posted:Yeah, instead of killing people he just puts them under incredible debt from hospital bills and maybe even a lifetime of disability. Yep! But that's still preferable to killing them. In absence of a boxing glove arrow, this is about the best you can do.
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Feb 24, 2014 03:36
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Eddain posted:Yeah, instead of killing people he just puts them under incredible debt from hospital bills and maybe even a lifetime of disability. Roy healed up pretty quick. He was running pretty well before he even got the MIRAKURUKUHAIRUKU injection.
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Feb 24, 2014 03:40
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Eddain posted:Yeah, instead of killing people he just puts them under incredible debt from hospital bills and maybe even a lifetime of disability. Real world american is indistinguishable from a comic book world to foreigners so its probably not a big deal.
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Feb 24, 2014 04:20
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Eddain posted:Yeah, instead of killing people he just puts them under incredible debt from hospital bills and maybe even a lifetime of disability. Those people would certainly have killed him in an instant if they got the chance. Perhaps they didn't know they were working for someone evil, but Oliver can hardly sit down with them and have a chat about morals.
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Feb 24, 2014 06:59
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:Lol - That's right. Green arrow ends up killing that guy at the end of the episode anyway - because gently caress courts! We goin' all Zimmerman on that mugfug! One of the bad guys even says "He put X amount of my men in the hospital!"
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Feb 24, 2014 07:03
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I think that the key here is that vigilante justice, while entertaining to watch on television, in the real world has ramifications that make it an untenable solution to crime. Do you think that anyone would be able to successfully try a serial killer or a mob boss in a court of law if they just showed up on hogtied on the police's doorstep with a note from Batman? Better to just work to improve the failings of the criminal justice system than patrol the streets at night in a costume. One thing I would like to see though, is a costumed vigilante crimefighter that doesn't kill anyone or try to arrest them, but instead just burns down warehouses full of the badguy's drugs and cash.
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Feb 24, 2014 07:36
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I don't remember seeing Captain Planet punch too many people. Robin Hood I don't think killed too many people, more just he stole all their poo poo. The term is, what, the Myth of Redemptive Violence or something. That one idea has a lot of normal comics held back in terms of character development and interesting plots.
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Feb 24, 2014 08:11
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:I think that the key here is that vigilante justice, while entertaining to watch on television, in the real world has ramifications that make it an untenable solution to crime. Do you think that anyone would be able to successfully try a serial killer or a mob boss in a court of law if they just showed up on hogtied on the police's doorstep with a note from Batman? Better to just work to improve the failings of the criminal justice system than patrol the streets at night in a costume. Have you by chance read The Long Halloween ?
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Feb 24, 2014 14:40
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Plus, all the cops left would have quit and moved to bumfuck Oregon by now. How many of them and FEMA have died?
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Feb 24, 2014 14:41
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:I think that the key here is that vigilante justice, while entertaining to watch on television, in the real world has ramifications that make it an untenable solution to crime. Thank god Arrow is a television show. But seriously dude, read Dennis O'Neil's The Question. It's about a man who fights crime via a combination of martial arts and zen Buddhism, with very little success because crime has complicated socio-economic causes.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:18
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GreenNight posted:Plus, all the cops left would have quit and moved to bumfuck Oregon by now. How many of them and FEMA have died? I don't have an exact count but if as many police officers and government officials died in a single city as Starling there would probably be a entire office building or two worth of FBI, Secret Service, and a few NSA/CIA agents thrown in for good measure there by now.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:30
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King of Solomon posted:Yep! But that's still preferable to killing them. In absence of a boxing glove arrow, this is about the best you can do. I won't take Ollie's no-kill pledge seriously until he goes full boxing glove arrow. Deathstroke actually succeeds, has Ollie completely beaten, and is about to go through with his promise of putting an arrow through Ollie's eye. But Ollie doesn't carry sharp ones anymore. Bam. Ending. edit: I've since added Deathstroke to my autocomplete to prevent myself from failing this city in the future. jscolon2.0 fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 18:10
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:Has anyone ever noticed that during the first season, Green Arrow would regularly infiltrate bad guy hangout du jour and straight up murder the hapless, work-a-day thugs that are probably only there due to desperation and poor life choices, while letting the wealthy mastermind off with a stern warning? And was totes cool with letting his evil mum get away with shooting him and all kinds, and his sister get away with drug (?) driving.
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Feb 24, 2014 19:11
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re: First season killing people. Have you finished the first season/gotten to the second? It's a primary plot point. It's even in the opening for season 2. Sorry if this is considered a spoiler.
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Feb 24, 2014 19:24
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boom boom boom posted:Thank god Arrow is a television show. In a city that made Gothem look like Metropolis. The hero cop was a former corrupt cop and he was the best they were going to get. Also a mayor that Rob Ford wishes he could be.
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Feb 24, 2014 19:33
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King of Solomon posted:Yep! But that's still preferable to killing them. In absence of a boxing glove arrow, this is about the best you can do. If they weren't dead, why aren't they all screaming "OH GOD MY ARM!!! THE HOOD IS HERE YOU GUYS!!!!"
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Feb 24, 2014 20:46
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I've got a bunch of comic-reading friends who really dislike that the Arrow's killing policy is so flexible. Me? I like it. It's almost like a tip of the hat to realism, that even if you try and only disable thugs you're still going to need to kill to stay alive every now and then. It's messy and complex, which is a rarity for a genre that usually treats Killing or No Killing as a binary choice.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:20
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No killing policies in general are loving stupid. I get why they do it in comic books where they are trying to explore the nature of heroism but how many lives would Batman have saved by icing his rogue's gallery on the first offense? A no-kill policy that has exceptions under extreme circumstances makes more sense to me. I'm glad they didn't have Ollie undergo some huge emotional crisis after he killed the Count, he was just like, "ha, like I'm going to let some dude murder Felicity, I'm over it." IRL I'm extremely anti death penalty but we also don't have Basically Hitlers constantly breaking out of jail to go on yet another murder spree.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:30
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zoux posted:No killing policies in general are loving stupid. I get why they do it in comic books where they are trying to explore the nature of heroism but how many lives would Batman have saved by icing his rogue's gallery on the first offense? A no-kill policy that has exceptions under extreme circumstances makes more sense to me. I'm glad they didn't have Ollie undergo some huge emotional crisis after he killed the Count, he was just like, "ha, like I'm going to let some dude murder Felicity, I'm over it." Yeah, I don't want to get into a big comic nerd debate up in here but that's one thing that's always bothered me about Batman- especially Bale's Batman. He would have saved thousands upon thousands of lives by simply killing Joker but nope, let's just throw him in Arkham the least secure asylum in all the universe so he can escape fifty million times. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the majority of comic book heroes and their moral codes were developed during a time when society largely did see crime issues in black and white. They were also typically targeted towards children & preteens, who are infamously incapable of gray-area thought. Therefore, "I'm the Batman, the Good Guy, so I'm not killing anyone no matter how evil!" would make perfect sense to them.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:35
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Captain Mog posted:Yeah, I don't want to get into a big comic nerd debate up in here but that's one thing that's always bothered me about Batman- especially Bale's Batman. He would have saved thousands upon thousands of lives by simply killing Joker but nope, let's just throw him in Arkham the least secure asylum in all the universe so he can escape fifty million times. You also had the comic code when they could not kill. Before the code, Batman and Superman did kill but due to the seduction of the innocent comics had to be in black and white.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:38
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Captain Mog posted:Yeah, I don't want to get into a big comic nerd debate up in here but that's one thing that's always bothered me about Batman- especially Bale's Batman. He would have saved thousands upon thousands of lives by simply killing Joker but nope, let's just throw him in Arkham the least secure asylum in all the universe so he can escape fifty million times. Nothing in the Dark Knight trilogy showed Arkham as the revolving door it is in comics. Everyone Batman put away stayed in jail until Bane broke em out. Joker in those films killed a few cops, a judge, and Rachel, but mostly gangsters and other criminals. He threatened but failed to kill a few hundred folks on boats.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:04
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Also hard to maintain a well known rogue gallery when your hero keeps killing them all.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:41
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From Facebook: Stephen Amell Facebook. Let me bend your ear for a moment. I realize this is the internet and everything gets blown out of proportion, but I think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard. Basically... I think some people have a tendency to try and extrapolate a deeper meaning or hidden agenda from almost everything I post. I'm not that clever. I have no agenda on the page beyond interacting with people who enjoy our show or whatever other venture I might be involving myself in. I'm not biased in any way shape or form. I don't have any rooting interests. I'm just a regular dude who runs his own page. If it seems like some of my posts are opinionated, that's because most pages with this size of community are boring on purpose because they're run by PR companies. So... if something on this page bothers you, tough sh*t. I'm not going to apologize because, I didn't do it on purpose. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to keep dominating Monday. xo Have to say I love his honesty. He definitely wears his heart on his sleeve.
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Feb 25, 2014 02:31
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Narcissus1916 posted:I've got a bunch of comic-reading friends who really dislike that the Arrow's killing policy is so flexible. At risk for comic chat - Mike Grell's GA had him kill people. It's also an awesome comic.
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Feb 25, 2014 04:25
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SpannerX posted:
I follow him on FB because I like what he has to say. It every time I want to press "like" or make a relevant comment, I see the wet-pantied, poorly misspelled, grammatically toxic drek people post to him and decide I don't want to even swim in that sewer. Fans are creepy.
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Feb 25, 2014 04:31
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zoux posted:No killing policies in general are loving stupid. I get why they do it in comic books where they are trying to explore the nature of heroism but how many lives would Batman have saved by icing his rogue's gallery on the first offense? A no-kill policy that has exceptions under extreme circumstances makes more sense to me. I'm glad they didn't have Ollie undergo some huge emotional crisis after he killed the Count, he was just like, "ha, like I'm going to let some dude murder Felicity, I'm over it." In comics there's a no kill policy because they usually want long running villains to sell more comics with, not some mook who dies of an infection ( or bleeds out from the femoral) from an arrow shot to the leg. It's basically the Terminator against villains: in 4 movies and a tv show the only main plot characters Terminators have killed is Derek and Kyle Reese. That's two kills in over 1700 minutes of film. Ollie's body count in the first season alone? Over 40.
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Feb 25, 2014 04:50
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Party Plane Jones posted:In comics there's a no kill policy because they usually want long running villains to sell more comics with, not some mook who dies of an infection ( or bleeds out from the femoral) from an arrow shot to the leg. It's basically the Terminator against villains: in 4 movies and a tv show the only main plot characters Terminators have killed is Derek and Kyle Reese. That's two kills in over 1700 minutes of film. Ollie's body count in the first season alone? Over 40. Wait, so you're comparing the main plot characters in Terminator to no nothings in Arrow? Seems legit.
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Feb 25, 2014 05:13
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GreenNight posted:Wait, so you're comparing the main plot characters in Terminator to no nothings in Arrow? Seems legit. Major villains killed per season considering Malcolm is still alive and not counting flashbacks? The Count is pretty much the only one I can recall offhand. Ollie is a terminator of nobodies. Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 05:23
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Party Plane Jones posted:Major villains killed per season considering Malcolm is still alive and not counting flashbacks? The Count is pretty much the only one I can recall offhand. Maybe Barrowman is a ghost.  One might say he is a gentlemanly ghost.
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Feb 25, 2014 05:26
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Party Plane Jones posted:Major villains killed per season considering Malcolm is still alive and not counting flashbacks? The Count is pretty much the only one I can recall offhand. He killed The Mayor, didn't he? 
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Feb 25, 2014 05:27
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Drifter posted:The Mayor. The Mayor was captured by cops and killed by Blood wasn't he?
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Feb 25, 2014 05:28
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Party Plane Jones posted:Major villains killed per season considering Malcolm is still alive and not counting flashbacks? The Count is pretty much the only one I can recall offhand. Ollie is a terminator of nobodies. Ollie kills a lot of guys that could have become recurring easily, like Drakon, Firefly, and Brutale.
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Feb 25, 2014 05:56
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jscolon2.0 posted:Ollie kills a lot of guys that could have become recurring easily, like Drakon, Firefly, and Brutale. Who the poo poo are those people? Buncha no name sonsofbitches.
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Feb 25, 2014 06:05
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Drifter posted:Who the poo poo are those people? Buncha no name sonsofbitches. Drakkon was a recurring villain in the comics the show has been heavily based on.
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Feb 25, 2014 06:07
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Rhyno posted:Drakkon was a recurring villain in the comics the show has been heavily based on. You're not helping me. That's one of the least helpful answers you could have given. Who are these people? Does he wear a lion rug as a cape? Have hand lasers, what?
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Feb 25, 2014 06:16
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Drifter posted:You're not helping me. That's one of the least helpful answers you could have given. Who are these people? Does he wear a lion rug as a cape? Have hand lasers, what? He's the one with the wheelchair and the mohawk.
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Feb 25, 2014 06:18
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Firefly committed suicide.
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Feb 25, 2014 06:33
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Drakon was that nobody the evil businessman hired to protect him in the pilot episode. He had a tattoo or something on his face.
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Feb 25, 2014 06:36
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I never understand the "why doesn't Batman just kill the joker" complaints because surely this argument could also apply to literally every policeman and Arkham doctor who ends up having access to the Joker while he's under confinement. Gotham could have the death penalty and execute him (this is badly explored in at least one batman comic) which at least would distribute culpability. If the democratic population arguably doesn't want to execute the Joker, what right does Batman have to? Hell, I could probably put together an argument for killing all sorts of people based on consequentialism but nobody blames me for not killing all kinds of people I theoretically could. Batman does what the police and other institutions of society would like to do but lack the capability - breaking up the mob, saving people from murderers, etc. He usually doesn't overstep those bounds too much because his focus is saving and protecting, not killing anyone who might be a future threat. For (great) vigilante justice go read Punisher. Edit: I wonder if this is a perspective thing coming from outside the US where in the developed world the death penalty is unimaginably repulsive to most people. I don't think Batman should kill anyone, that's why he has super training etc rather than just a glock and a billion dollars to spend on lawyers. Blamestorm fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 06:38
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I found it funny of all people Oliver didn't kill was the psychopath murdering women by pouring liquid cement into them.
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Feb 25, 2014 06:46
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