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But Bumfuck OR doesn't let them run the show
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Feb 24, 2014 20:40
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Popular Thug Drink posted:It's always funny to me when non-southnerners assume that the south is just as pearly white as the rest of the country. More than half of black Americans live in the south. Houston is more diverse than New York. There's this attitude that southerners are all paranoid crazy whites which is just as true of Bumfuck, TN as it is of Bumfuck, OR. Yes, the people who don't like bible belt politics are the real racists. 
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Feb 24, 2014 20:40
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Limbaugh has spent about half of his program today  ing over the NFL's musings on whether or not to penalize the use of the n-bomb on the field. Watch the video at the link it isn't Limbaugh but it hits about every point he's been hitting today, and delivered by two white guys to boot. After taking a couple calls on the topic, Limbaugh 'just asked the question' of when politically incorrect speech came to be known as hate speech? For reference, federal prosecution of hate speech began after the passage of the Civil Rights Act although what is classified as a hate crime has evolved over the years.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:43
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Spaceman Future! posted:Yes, the people who don't like bible belt politics are the real racists. Did I say he was racist? Or did I say that he has an unrealistic and stereotyped opinion? I know it's not fun when people are confronted by their own bigotry but this is how we learn, together. And I don't know what other word to use when non-white southerners are marginalized to the point that people pretend they don't exist just to assert that their politics are superior. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 20:48
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Did I say he was racist? Or did I say that he has an unrealistic and stereotyped opinion? He didn't bring up race, you did, that's projection. Your insinuation that he was making a race based statement when you were the one bringing it up is telling. I know it's not fun when people are confronted by their own bigotry but this is how we learn, together.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:52
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Spaceman Future! posted:He didn't bring up race, you did, that's projection. Your insinuation that he was making a race based statement when you were the one bringing it up is telling. I know it's not fun when people are confronted by their own bigotry but this is how we learn, together. Ah yes, good old "who is even talking about race (an in implicitly coded argument) I guess we know who the REAL racist is!" This is the exact argument which gets regularly mocked in this thread. I hope you're proud of yourself.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:55
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Did I say he was racist? Or did I say that he has an unrealistic and stereotyped opinion? It's not just a stereotype, the South comes off extremely poorly on pretty much any metric covering quality of life. Human development index:  High school graduation:  Infant mortality:  The problem isn't just that the South is a bad place to live, it's also that the South revels in the things that cause these outcomes and considers them key parts of "Southern Culture". A perfect example of that is how they still haven't given up on fighting a war to keep other human beings as slaves 150 years later even after several armed Federal interventions. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 21:00
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Ah yes, good old "who is even talking about race (an in implicitly coded argument) I guess we know who the REAL racist is!" I appreciate the lesson in Rovian campaigning but your mouth is not his mouth or my mouth, your assumptions are not my assumptions, and your weakness is not my weak point in an argument. Trying to deflect your opinions on to me may be good fodder for a primary campaign but that only works if you're trying to convince an easily swayed voter base, not so hot in a one on one discussion.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:01
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Ah yes, good old "who is even talking about race (an in implicitly coded argument) I guess we know who the REAL racist is!" Stop talking about the south, nobody cares, and your'e from loving Atlanta, jesus christ. There are countless rural southern goons who probably live in shittier conditions than you, and you don't see them ducking into threads mocking "racist northerners" and crowing about the glories of the southern race. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 21:01
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Paul MaudDib posted:The problem isn't just that the South is a bad place to live, it's also that the South revels in the things that cause these outcomes and considers them key parts of "Southern Culture". A perfect example of that is how they still haven't given up fighting a war to keep other human beings as slaves 150 years later even after several armed Federal interventions. This derail started because I called out a dude for assuming all southerners are racist whites and I guess that particular stereotype is too strong to dislodge? Because here it is again. Criticize southern politicians all you want but these sweeping generalizations are pretty shamful both in the sense that it's terrible argumentation and terrible comedic posting. BiggerBoat posted:Because if it becomes "a thing" I'll bet good money that they'll be the latest conservative martyrs and the right will trot out Rosanne Barr and whoever the gently caress else. Then sales of this band's records will spike. I'm pretty sure that's their business model. A boy band for the tone deaf. Trying to rationalize your bigotry by claiming to be the lesser bigot doesn't work quite as well as you think it does. VVVVVVVVV boner confessor fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 21:03
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So you the political system is completely unrepresentative of the views of the voters? It's just a coincidence that South Carolineans sent noted racist Strom Thurmond to the US Senate for five decades? And it's just a coincidence that the same state that sent a segregationist to Congress in the year 1996 also happened to be the first state to secede over the right to own people? My, the coincidences keep piling up. Ultimatly the people of the South are victims, though. It's the place where the wealthy were most successful in sowing inter-class conflict (particularly between blacks and poor whites), and that fracture has been exploited for political gain ever since. It even received a name, the eponymous "Southern Strategy". That doesn't change the facts on the ground, which are that the South is an underdeveloped area filled with regressive, uneducated people and politics. The Southern Strategy wouldn't work if that weren't true. vvv My sister's boyfriend is from Florida, and in the late 2000s he was taught the 1860-1865 period as War of Southern Aggression. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 21:10
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I've spent the last half of my life in Greeneville, TN. People around here are racist as gently caress and we had a strong abolitionist movement back in the early 1800s. They don't deserve pity, they deserve ridicule and derision. It's 2014 and people who insist on calling the neighborhood around my old high school "Niggertown" and are unabashedly against biracial relationships aren't worth trying to reason with.
Scorched Spitz fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 21:13
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Infomaniac posted:gently caress your family. gently caress your life. gently caress other countries. gently caress vacation. BUY A CADILLAC! - a good ad. We drove a Cadillac to Detroit and left it with a full tank of gas and the keys in the ignition. You know why? Cuz we were the only ones coming back for it. (Also because it just stopped cranking over)
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Feb 24, 2014 21:26
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Popular Thug Drink posted:And I don't know what other word to use when non-white southerners are marginalized to the point that people pretend they don't exist just to assert that their politics are superior. In a lot of cases they might as well not exist outside local politics.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:33
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Popular Thug Drink posted:This derail started because I called out a dude for assuming all southerners are racist whites and I guess that particular stereotype is too strong to dislodge? He didn't do that. MizPiz posted:That's what really kills me about the South; it's easily one of if not the most beautiful regions in the US, but it's being completely ruined (in every meaning of the word) by everyone who lives there. See?
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Feb 24, 2014 21:36
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comes along bort posted:In a lot of cases they might as well not exist outside local politics. This is true, but for some reason the rural south or midwest is held up as exemplary of the region where the rural north or west is forgotten about and dismmissed. It's alluring to pin national problems on an otherized group of troublemakers. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 21:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:And I don't know what other word to use when non-white southerners are marginalized to the point that people pretend they don't exist just to assert that their politics are superior. Yeah, its pretty tough to sum up the entire history of southern politics in one word.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:40
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Popular Thug Drink posted:This is true, but for some reason the rural south or midwest is held up as exemplary of the region where the rural north or west is forgotten about and dismmissed. It's alluring to pin national problems on an otherized group of troublemakers. To be fair the shitkickers in most of those places aren't in charge of things. Of course then again that's not really the case in most of the south these days either. It's largely suburban/exurban interests and to an extent money driving the southern Republican party, as it is in the rest of the country.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:44
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I'm pretty sure Popular Thug Drink used to have a Paula Deen avatar because when that whole poo poo went down he was defending her against the vicious lies of the northern racists who just don't understand southern culture. I could be wrong and there are just two schmucks with the same gimmick, but that's his MO. Anytime someone starts talking about how much the south sucks, he pops in like a genie to explain why northerners are the true racists because there are a lot of black people in the south.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:45
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Popular Thug Drink posted:This is true, but for some reason the rural south or midwest is held up as exemplary of the region where the rural north or west is forgotten about and dismmissed. It's alluring to pin national problems on an otherized group of troublemakers. I can only speak for the rural west, but it is easily dismissed because it is mostly empty, has little representation, and often has to share representation with more cosmopolitan urban areas. West of the Rockies especially, huge amounts of the land are owned by the government and rented out for grazing or timber. By western standards, nothing east of the Mississippi River is rural judging by population density.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:01
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This "South" talk has been a bit weird, I've been wanting to jump in say some things but it seems best to start with the post that kind of kicked things off.MizPiz posted:That's what really kills me about the South; it's easily one of if not the most beautiful regions in the US, but it's being completely ruined (in every meaning of the word) by everyone who lives there. I'm curious, as a resident of North Carolina, is there anyway for to stop ruining my state's beauty? How do you avoid causing harm to the beauty where you live? The quoted statement to me reads as  "you guys are sure loving everything up" and maybe it's not supposed to be taken that specifically? Are we all ruining where we live in the U.S. or is it just the South?
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Feb 24, 2014 22:08
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I think a better reading is that the population spoils the land, and that the south should be emptied and held as the greatest of all national parks. When nobody lives there, it can serve as a family or living room for the whole nation to enjoy.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:12
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:I'm curious, as a resident of North Carolina, is there anyway for to stop ruining my state's beauty? How do you avoid causing harm to the beauty where you live? The quoted statement to me reads as Everyone ruins the environment just by existing to some extent, but there's the unavoidable damage of civilization and then there's scorching the earth. Mountaintop removal coal mining is very much the latter, as is fracking (WV and PA). Then there's letting companies slack off their safety and environmental standards until an accident inevitably happens, whether that's dumping a quarter of a billion gallons of oil into the gulf or poisoning an entire state's drinking water with your leaky tank. It's an effect of having no education or development and an utterly lovely economy really. People just want jobs and if that means removing every regulation that might hinder a "job creator" then so be it. They don't have any other alternatives and they're too desperate to look beyond their next paycheck, so it's easy to manipulate them. And a national/multinational company can buy and sell a state-level government pretty damned easily. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 22:21
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Paul MaudDib posted:It's an effect of having no education or development and an utterly lovely economy really. People just want jobs and if that means removing every regulation that might hinder a "job creator" then so be it. They don't have any other alternatives and they're too desperate to look beyond their next paycheck, so it's easy to manipulate people. Or in the case of North Carolina having a governor still on the payroll for an energy company who openly stated his goal is to do whatever it takes to maximize shareholder value. The state actually used to have regulations and all that, so in this case it's not so much uneducated yokels as it is rapacious corporate interests trumping the public.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:23
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comes along bort posted:Or in the case of North Carolina having a governor still on the payroll for an energy company who openly stated his goal is to do whatever it takes to maximize shareholder value. The state actually used to have regulations and all that, so in this case it's not so much uneducated yokels as it is rapacious corporate interests trumping the public. Companies can't vote yet, so in the end the blame still largely comes back to the people who elected the governor who said he was going to sell the state's future for ExxonMobil's profit margin. It's not entirely the people's fault - our antiquated political system, the role of money in politics, and a lovely educational system also play a role. But neither are the people blameless -it's not a surprise in the year 2014 that one of our parties is nakedly corporatist when it's not being maliciously regressive and people keep voting for them, and many of the states that have these poor baseline educational conditions, etc are also the ones that are most strongly resistant to attempts to improve education and critical thinking. Virginia is at the present moment trying to put evolution back into their curriculum.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:36
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Paul MaudDib posted:it's not a surprise in the year 2014 that one of our parties is nakedly corporatist when it's not being maliciously regressive and people keep voting for them Which one? Part of what I keep saying is that people ignorantly insist they're on the good side of the fence.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:41
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Which one? Generally Democrats aren't maliciously regressive. They knocked that poo poo off in the 60s when the Dixiecrats jumped ship. vvv Yes, precisely. You don't see Democrats leading the charge to get evolution and critical thinking out of schools, or suppress voter turnout, or otherwise prevent remediation of the structural issues affecting the South. And really they are nowhere near as corporatist as Republicans regardless. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 22:42
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Paul MaudDib posted:Generally Democrats aren't maliciously regressive. They knocked that poo poo off in the 60s when the Dixiecrats jumped ship. I'll grant you they're not malicious about it. They just sort of muddle along on social issues until it's popular enough to be worth bothering with - gay marriage, in the next decade marijuana decriminalization, maybe eventually prison reform, if someone crowdsources some clever memes about the for profit prison industry.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:45
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Popular Thug Drink posted:This is true, but for some reason the rural south or midwest is held up as exemplary of the region where the rural north or west is forgotten about and dismmissed. It's alluring to pin national problems on an otherized group of troublemakers. The south remains the most ruralized area of the country as a whole, and the great plains aren't far behind. There are a few outlier states in the Northeast but they're also quite small - and you rarely hear anyone complain that Vermont and Maine are being unfairly judged on their rural population. Your complaint is like if someone was to complain that New Jersey, California, and Massachusetts were unfairly judged on the basis of their urban areas.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:51
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For everyone who was complaining about Maddow's bridgegate coverage the last show (hosted by Steve Karnacki) is completely bridge-gate free....although he did tease that it all got moved to today's show. Edit: Really? We're burying Democrats for not falling on their swords for gay rights before the public wanted any part of it? If you're going to play the both sides card lets at least move the goalposts somewhere within the stadium.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:52
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Edit: Really? We're burying Democrats for not falling on their swords for gay rights before the public wanted any part of it? If you're going to play the both sides card lets at least move the goalposts somewhere within the stadium. Especially because Bill Clinton of all people did actually attempt to do so ahead of the public , back in his first term.
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Feb 24, 2014 23:24
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Install Windows posted:Especially because Bill Clinton of all people did actually attempt to do so ahead of the public , back in his first term. As lovely as DOMA and DADT were, they're certainly leagues ahead of the constitutional amendments that the GOP of the time was kicking around.
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Feb 24, 2014 23:32
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:I'm curious, as a resident of North Carolina, is there anyway for to stop ruining my state's beauty? How do you avoid causing harm to the beauty where you live? Since you ask, I think a good first step is to stop your state government from looking the other way while companies dump tons of coal ash in your rivers. That's generally the kind of thing I try to keep from happening in my state.
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Feb 24, 2014 23:42
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Geeze, what is with this phenomenon of liberals going out of their way to try and equate the left with the right? Is it just self-loathing, or some kind of beltway sickness spreading across the land?
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Feb 24, 2014 23:48
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And if we're going to start comparing what it takes to get a political party on the right side of history lets take a good look at the Iraq war: where we passed up 9/11's American body count pretty early, let it drag on longer than any war in our history, and had to do a ret-con worthy of Star Trek to explain why we did it in the first place. And the GOP still took 3-4 years and Democratic President at the the helm before even considering publicly saying the whole deal was even a bad thing. And it's not even like you're going to gather up a random 10 of them today and guarantee me 8 will tell you it wasn't worth it. That's intransigence.
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Feb 24, 2014 23:52
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beatlegs posted:Geeze, what is with this phenomenon of liberals going out of their way to try and equate the left with the right? Is it just self-loathing, or some kind of beltway sickness spreading across the land? Personally it's distaste for neoliberalism, lack of faith in our political system to weed out narcissists and sociopaths, and fatigue from cyclical wavering between hang all the bastards/lesser of two evils. If the perfect isn't the enemy of the good, then the lovely isn't the enemy of the evil.
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Feb 25, 2014 00:26
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Hi, I'm from North Carolina and I vote straight Democrat every election. I just wanted to remind everyone that, despite the votes we cast, we still got stuck with a General Assembly that wants to make this state worse than Arizona. They literally intended to pass a law making Christianity the State Religion. And We got them thanks to egregious gerrymandering:  As long as this sort of thing stands, we've got a major lift to deal with down here.
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Feb 25, 2014 01:14
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I think you'll find Mississippi is the NCGA's aspirational goal.
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Feb 25, 2014 03:35
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Zeroisanumber posted:As lovely as DOMA and DADT were, they're certainly leagues ahead of the constitutional amendments that the GOP of the time was kicking around. Not to mention a quick, desperate and necessary fix; in his first term in every public appearance he made he would be asked about gays serving in the military, and the other side just wasn't going to budge as much as he wanted them to. DADT was a compromise that they could actually accept
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Feb 25, 2014 04:04
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Just literally saw Dick Cheney bitching about the fact the US is cutting military funding on Hannity. He said "WELL THIS PRESIDENT WOULD RATHER SPEND MONEY ON FOOD STAMPS THAN HE WOULD OUR TROOPS" ... Unfuckingreal. Yes, from the man that literally caused our entire country to go down the shitter all together. gently caress him.
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Feb 25, 2014 04:10
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