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various cheeses posted:The NOSdomi rides again I guess, in the form of a dong-shaped ship. In soviet Russia, dong sucks you? …sorry… 
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Feb 25, 2014 18:44
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ranbo das posted:The way NOS originally worked is that it was just basically a neut that gave you the cap it drained, it was hella overpowered. Also OH MY GOD THEY'RE BRINGING ORIGINAL NOS BACK You still have a massive difference between the amount of energy a neut and a nos wipe out, so I don't see why everyone's circlejerking over the Bhaalgorn with this change. I'd assume it gives you the ability to drop the heavy cap booster, but outside of that, a neut still burns five times as much enemy cap as the nos does. 
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Feb 25, 2014 18:54
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Duzzy Funlop posted:You still have a massive difference between the amount of energy a neut and a nos wipe out, so I don't see why everyone's circlejerking over the Bhaalgorn with this change. I'd assume it gives you the ability to drop the heavy cap booster, but outside of that, a neut still burns five times as much enemy cap as the nos does. You still want to use neuts, it's just that the change allows your noz to not be completely useless after the first neut cycle.
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Feb 25, 2014 18:58
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Kuvo posted:You still want to use neuts, it's just that the change allows your noz to not be completely useless after the first neut cycle. That, and the fact that you can keep them capped out by using your nos rather than neuts, which means you effectively have a lot more cap to play with.
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Feb 25, 2014 19:27
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On a bonused ship like the Bhaalgorn, one NOS will return more energy than a Neut consumes. Normally this wouldn't be very helpful because finding something near a Bhaalgorn with enough cap to suck on would be unreliable, to say the least. With the coming change, this means any hostile ship, including whatever poor bastard you're nuking right now, will be a powerful source of capacitor. A Bhaalgorn with guaranteed bonus NOS cap will be able to do some pretty disgusting things.
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Feb 25, 2014 19:34
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Duzzy Funlop posted:You still have a massive difference between the amount of energy a neut and a nos wipe out, so I don't see why everyone's circlejerking over the Bhaalgorn with this change. I'd assume it gives you the ability to drop the heavy cap booster, but outside of that, a neut still burns five times as much enemy cap as the nos does. The ability to count on bonus cap in a fight and dropping a heavy cap booster is a huge deal for Amarr which traditionally have midslot-starved ship designs. Old nos was a thing to behold.
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Feb 25, 2014 19:56
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Thank god, Serpentis keep their webs. I'm happier with this round of changes than with any tiericide since t1 cruisers. I just hope the pirate cruisers come out as well as the frigates.
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Feb 25, 2014 20:08
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Oooh, frigates! New Worm is rear end. It's actually worse than the old Worm, which is impressive. New Cruor and Succubus are fantastic. Dramiel/DD are basically unchanged, which is also good.
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Feb 25, 2014 20:23
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I guess Rise isn't a complete idiot. Maybe he'll eventually come to his senses about rapid launcher reload times.Khablam posted:That's some serious ~~EFT warrior~~ stuff there. People successfully fly far more expensive and vulnerable things every day. This has a covops cloak to let you pick every fight, and can solo anything frigate-sized other than a Sentinel or dual-rep Dramiel (or the new Cruor, yikes), neither of which you'd ever engage. With good piloting and decisionmaking, keeping something like this alive is not that difficult at all. Faction-fit ships are not for everyone, but to say that a ship that can choose every fight and apply full DPS to something it has webbed at 18km while maintaining its own top speed is a 'bad idea' is basically saying that spending more than the absolute bare minimum on any ship is a bad idea. It certainly is for many people, and they should stick to T2 stuff. If you think a highly-survivable fit that only costs 3x the base hull price is unreasonable, please don't faction-fit. tl;dr don't bling-shame
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Feb 25, 2014 20:26
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ullerrm posted:Oooh, frigates! The Worm desperately needed more CPU and PG, which it got. It's still the slowest of the Pirate frigates, but it's not an immobile brick. I think it might be worth flying now, and I'm not only saying that because of my stockpile of Worm BPCs. 
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Feb 25, 2014 20:51
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ullerrm posted:New Worm is rear end. It's actually worse than the old Worm, which is impressive. ullerrm posted:New Cruor and Succubus are fantastic. Succubus took a pretty big grid hit, which isn't a problem for a 1mn fit, but might make 10mn fits non-viable (which is too bad, it'd get like 3500m/s without speed mods). I'm still not sold on afterburner-only brawling frigs while 90% webs still exist. If it had enough grid to dual-prop, maybe. Edit: If my math is right, mikey fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 21:11
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mikey posted:I'd disagree, initially, though I'd like to play with it in EFT. It gained a lot: 8 effective drones / 3 effective launchers from 5 / 2, plus more grid, CPU, and speed. I guess it's worse against fast things like LML inties, but it should be considerably more effective against anything else, and easier to fit. What's crucial is that it didn't gain much grid. The Worm is already horrible to fit; you cannot slap a baseline fit -- rockets, an MSE, and a prop mod -- onto it without at least one fitting mod or rig. Good luck trying to cram LMLs onto that piece of poo poo. Don't even think about trying to use that option high if you're using MWD. The extra CPU helps a bit, but not enough. (And now that it has no rocket velocity bonus, it's tricky to kite with it as well.) The drones are a mixed bag. Sure, you now have eight drones' worth of DPS on paper. But that's really not much; that's 130dps with Warriors. And the fact that you only have two of them is a real issue when you consider tracking. Before, you could toss out five drones, and one would occasionally miss a shot here or there, but the average would be pretty good. With two mega-strength drones, every single miss or glancing blow means half your potential damage is gone. It also means your GTFO abilities are gone. Old Worm could choose between 5x Warriors/Hobgobs for the gank, and 5x EC-300s for getting out. New worm has two quadruple-strength damage drones... and two normal-strength ECM drones that probably won't do poo poo. (And since you're basically forced to do scram/web, getting out may be important.) New Worm is pure, unfiltered rear end. It'll be good for running frigate plexes in highsec with a 10MN fit, and it'll be good for ganking noobs. ullerrm fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 21:19
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ullerrm posted:What's crucial is that it didn't gain any grid or CPU. It gained 5 grid and 20 CPU. An MSE fit should be doable now.I see what you're saying about ECM drones, but the gain in DPS is very much non-trivial. You're talking 200+ DPS with Hobs and rockets now, you just need to fit a web to apply well (which was an issue with the existing Worm anyway).
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Feb 25, 2014 21:24
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You should probably let them know in the thread about the worm being even worse than it was before. After the drone change I thought it looked awesome and  might be of the same mindset.
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Feb 25, 2014 21:30
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Seriously, usually I agree with ullerm's take on things, but I'm really not seeing the issues with the Worm. It can comfortably fit 2x RLII, 1mn MWD/Scram/Web/MSEII, DCII/DDAII/NanoII for 7300 EHP, 245dps, and very respectable speed (I am clearly incapable of doing Eve speed math, but I think that fit is around 3300m/s? e: more like 3000m/s?). e2: With rigs and the increase in shield hp, the EHP of that fit is actually about 10k. That's.. really good? Maybe its role/advantages have changed a bit, but I'd take this any day over the anemic ~160dps max current version that can't be properly fitted. mikey fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 21:34
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I have to wonder how much money some people in this thread think we have. As is we've been cutting reimbursement on pirate ships since the moon goo nerf. As fun as it would be, we won't see a pirate anything doctrine except for small gang stuff.
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Feb 25, 2014 22:19
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Duzzy Funlop posted:You still have a massive difference between the amount of energy a neut and a nos wipe out, so I don't see why everyone's circlejerking over the Bhaalgorn with this change. I'd assume it gives you the ability to drop the heavy cap booster, but outside of that, a neut still burns five times as much enemy cap as the nos does. Officer noses on a bhaalgorn drain much more cap and cycle much faster at longer ranges than the nuets at a reduced price. Now I have an excuse for throwing money at my bhaal besides "when I lose it, I quit". EDIT: 7.4s cycle time with high grade talismans on a Chelm's Nos, which means its cycling at the same speed as a medium nuet. Elmnt80 fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 22:26
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mikey posted:Seriously, usually I agree with ullerm's take on things, but I'm really not seeing the issues with the Worm. It can comfortably fit 2x RLII, 1mn MWD/Scram/Web/MSEII, DCII/DDAII/NanoII for 7300 EHP, 245dps, and very respectable speed (I am clearly incapable of doing Eve speed math, but I think that fit is around 3300m/s? e: more like 3000m/s?). You are correct -- I had a typo in my PyFa database edit.  My bad. I'm still underwhelmed; those uber-drones look good on paper, but I'm really confident that the tracking issues on them will kill a lot of your paper DPS.I'm sad that I effectively can't create my EFT data files anymore.
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Feb 25, 2014 22:32
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Omi no Kami posted:Alright, so there's no need to have any kind of extremely high-level combat ability when I join? I'm just asking now because I know it can take 3-5 months to train decent skills for some of the bigger ships, much less good ones. Hey I new also and I've been using this website as a rough guide for skill training. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Newbie-skill-plan-2
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Feb 25, 2014 22:45
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Groon is a lowsec shell corp for Goonswarm and totally not an irrelevant syndicate alliance with no ties to the CFC outside of blue standings with goonswarm because of goon solidarity or some poo poo. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1yvf29/everyone_was_being_so_nice/ Elmnt80 fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 22:48
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Elmnt80 posted:Groon is a lowsec shell corp for Goonswarm and totally not an irrelevant syndicate alliance. Oh god is that the dude they were scamming earlier? Priceless.
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Feb 25, 2014 22:51
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Elmnt80 posted:Officer noses on a bhaalgorn drain much more cap and cycle much faster at longer ranges than the nuets at a reduced price. Now I have an excuse for throwing money at my bhaal besides "when I lose it, I quit". You might want to consider buying that now before they spike in price, since there might actually be a reason to use them now.
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Feb 25, 2014 22:58
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Hazdoc posted:Oh god is that the dude they were scamming earlier? Priceless. It's more Marlona Skye claiming Groon is a Goon pet 
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Feb 25, 2014 23:01
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Famethrowa posted:It's more Marlona Skye claiming Groon is a Goon pet Holy poo poo I just saw that. I cannot stop myself from laughing, this is the best.
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Feb 25, 2014 23:03
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Well at least it's good news for all the j4g's who are using groon as a holding corp!
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Feb 25, 2014 23:14
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ullerrm posted:I'm still underwhelmed; those uber-drones look good on paper, but I'm really confident that the tracking issues on them will kill a lot of your paper DPS. What would be different than the current version, besides it being more feast-or-famine? It's 5 drones attacking at 100% damage vs 2 attacking at 400% right?
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Feb 25, 2014 23:18
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padijun posted:What would be different than the current version, besides it being more feast-or-famine? It's 5 drones attacking at 100% damage vs 2 attacking at 400% right? Variance of applied damage is much higher in the short term
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Feb 25, 2014 23:36
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padijun posted:What would be different than the current version, besides it being more feast-or-famine? It's 5 drones attacking at 100% damage vs 2 attacking at 400% right? There aren't that many ships both fast and agile enough to make light drones effectively miss anyway. I'd venture that most of those are not easily killable by the current Worm either, and the only real loss in that situation is the lack of ECM drone power. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the bonus apply to ECM drones as well. Two 4-point multispec ECM drones would give the ship another unique role for frigate combat (at the expense of 85% of its DPS), and ECM drones have low enough EHP that they'd still be easily destroyable. gwrtheyrn posted:Variance of applied damage is much higher in the short term This is true, but the Worm is pretty tough for a frigate. Unless you're trying to punch seriously above your weight, you're not going to be dying before the damage starts to even out. Also, this is equally true of 2-gun faction frigates with 200-300% bonuses, and nobody complains about those? mikey fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 23:47
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gwrtheyrn posted:Variance of applied damage is much higher in the short term So lower but more steady damage is preferable?
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Feb 25, 2014 23:47
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Hazdoc posted:Holy poo poo I just saw that. I cannot stop myself from laughing, this is the best. I like the people who think that actual alliance logistics services let people use collateral. If you can't trust your alliance logistics, you're probably in the wrong alliance.
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Feb 25, 2014 23:55
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padijun posted:So lower but more steady damage is preferable? Generally not, and it depends how much lower. I don't really have a problem with the proposed worm. It is true that having a drone miss is a bigger deal than if it had 5 drones, but I would say that this is a bigger deal for if/when you're recalling/relaunching drones than if your drones are missing. If it's just your 2 drones shooting consistently, you'll have the same average dps in the long term, but if you recall a drone every time it gets shot at, you lose 50% of your drone dps for that time
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Feb 25, 2014 23:58
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Booley posted:I like the people who think that actual alliance logistics services let people use collateral. If you can't trust your alliance logistics, you're probably in the wrong alliance. Obligatory reference to TEST JF services.
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Feb 25, 2014 23:58
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ullerrm posted:You are correct -- I had a typo in my PyFa database edit. You have a really valid point with drone damage application, but despite that I think the bursty nature of the drone shots will make a much bigger difference in the lower ehp of frigate-on-frigate combat. Nailing a guy with a 400 damage wrecking shot off a Hobgoblin II will never get old, and it's something you can do from 50km out (travel time notwithstanding).
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Feb 26, 2014 00:00
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gwrtheyrn posted:Generally not, and it depends how much lower. I don't really have a problem with the proposed worm. It is true that having a drone miss is a bigger deal than if it had 5 drones, but I would say that this is a bigger deal for if/when you're recalling/relaunching drones than if your drones are missing. If it's just your 2 drones shooting consistently, you'll have the same average dps in the long term, but if you recall a drone every time it gets shot at, you lose 50% of your drone dps for that time You might be interested in knowing that a Worm Hobgoblin II with drone durability IV has roughly the ehp of the T1 Slashers we hand out. When you fly with the Worm, it's like you've got two adorable newbies backing you up. 
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Feb 26, 2014 00:09
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CEO update, only really important part is this:quote:Effective immediately, all Goonwaffe members will enjoy a 100% reimbursement bonus on all subcapital reimbursement, peacetime or strategic, in addition to the alliance rate. That means that if a Waffe member loses a Harpy, not only will he receive the current standard 45m isk reimbursement which is the alliance default, he will also receive an additional 45m isk from the corp: you will literally profit from PvP, not merely PvP for free. This brings Waffe reimbursements in line with the existing membercorp bonus reimbursements which are handled at a corp level.
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Feb 26, 2014 00:18
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We're not that rich where I can just go get a daredevil, deadspace fit it, and welp it solo in lowsec everyday and have it reimbursed, right? (I've never filed for reimbursment on anything because I don't give two shits about the drakes or frigates I lost when Theta went to roam in lowsec.)
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Feb 26, 2014 00:27
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Kheldragar posted:We're not that rich where I can just go get a daredevil, deadspace fit it, and welp it solo in lowsec everyday and have it reimbursed, right? Faction frigate reimbursement is still 25m, so even with the doubling you'd still eat most of the cost. Sorry. Really though who gives a poo poo about that, the real upside of this is what it does to t1 ships and the newbie experience. You can literally forgo ratting altogether unless you want to start flying crazy faction poo poo and/or plexing your account.
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Feb 26, 2014 00:30
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Graviton Physics just became the best PvE skill in the game.
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Feb 26, 2014 00:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Faction frigate reimbursement is still 25m, so even with the doubling you'd still eat most of the cost. Sorry. So if I, as a 15 day old newbie, hop into a cruiser or something...?
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Feb 26, 2014 00:35
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Artificer posted:So if I, as a 15 day old newbie, hop into a cruiser or something...? Blow up > receive 50 million > repeat
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Feb 26, 2014 00:37
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