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If you play Standard, you have to accept the fact that a lot of rares and mythics will crater in value post-rotation, because they aren't good in other formats. If you need a Jace, AoT for your Standard deck, then it's not bad to buy this as he'll still be playable for 6 months after it comes out. If you don't need him or care about Standard, then it's silly to try and buy any Duel Deck for perceived future "value". Actually, it's silly to do that with any Magic card, period.
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Feb 26, 2014 01:41
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Ok, having looked at it myself, pretty much every rare is underwhelming, but on balance it's still solidly worth a pickup. why is the symbol a weather balloon though
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Feb 26, 2014 01:43
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qbert posted:If you play Standard, you have to accept the fact that a lot of rares and mythics will crater in value post-rotation, because they aren't good in other formats. Exactly why I gave up on Standard! (Twice...)
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Feb 26, 2014 01:44
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I don't know if this is the right thread to ask a MTGO question and if it's not feel free to slam my face for it but I was just wondering if FT20 is still available on MTGO. I can't seem to find it but I am new to the service and was just wondering.
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Feb 26, 2014 01:45
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It was sold online for a limited time IIRC.
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Feb 26, 2014 01:46
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JerryLee posted:Ok, having looked at it myself, pretty much every rare is underwhelming, but on balance it's still solidly worth a pickup. I think it's supposed to be half of the symbol on Jace's robe and half a gorgon head? I think, on a perhaps related note, Wizards is really running out of ideas for set symbols
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Feb 26, 2014 01:52
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Stinky Pit posted:It was sold online for a limited time IIRC. Ah rats. Thanks for the reply.
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Feb 26, 2014 01:54
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suicidesteve posted:
Could you see using Plea for Guidance instead of Idyllic Tutor in any situation? I have a bunch of those don't don't feel like dropping 30 bucks more when I have alot of the Restore Balance parts already.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:13
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If I bestow a Herald of Torment to a Cartel Aristocrat and later give her protection from black, does the Herald fall off and become a creature? And can you bestow to a creature with protection from creatures? I kniw it won't be a creature in play but can it target since the card type reads creature.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:17
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BizarroAzrael posted:If I bestow a Herald of Torment to a Cartel Aristocrat and later give her protection from black, does the Herald fall off and become a creature? yes and yes. There is no way to get "gotcha'd" with bestow dudes. At any point they would not be enchanting a creature, they cease to be an aura and become a creature. The rules that were written for bestow make sure this is always so. No loophole has yet been found that I know of. As for Protection from creatures, The order of operations for casting a spell is you choose modal effects first, before you declare targets. So in other words you delcare bestow or not bestow before you declare its target, so the point at which you declare a target, the card is no longer a creature, it is an enchantment aura.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:22
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BizarroAzrael posted:If I bestow a Herald of Torment to a Cartel Aristocrat and later give her protection from black, does the Herald fall off and become a creature? Yes, it will fall off. Yes. It loses the type "Creature" even when it is on the stack. This is the same reason you cannot use Essence Scatter to counter it. It only ALWAYS has creature type in your hand.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:22
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Yes, it will fall off. Wouldn't it always have creature type in the graveyard and in the deck? and exile zone?
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Feb 26, 2014 02:26
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uggy posted:Wouldn't it always have creature type in the graveyard and in the deck? and exile zone? Yes to all of those, I was only talking about zones relevant to casting it from your hand, since that was the situation.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:36
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Attorney at Funk posted:I think, on a perhaps related note, Wizards is really running out of ideas for set symbols I've always wondered about the design space for that. On one hand, you have to think its pretty massive since we're just talking about a tiny picture, but on the other, MaRo's made reference to the space for names feeling cramped. And Journey Into Nyx and DGM both use "take the first two sets, mash them into each other" for their symbols.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:43
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Boxman posted:I've always wondered about the design space for that. On one hand, you have to think its pretty massive since we're just talking about a tiny picture, but on the other, MaRo's made reference to the space for names feeling cramped. And Journey Into Nyx and DGM both use "take the first two sets, mash them into each other" for their symbols. It's hard to make a symbol that small that's not just uniquely identifiable, but also distinguishable at a look from the hundred-odd other symbols you've made the same size in the same spot.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:54
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Bugsy posted:Semi Ugh, why did you show me this, especially so close to payday, now I'm going to have to dump money on some of these prints/book. Hell Little Fish and Path to Exile prints are worth it on there own.
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Feb 26, 2014 02:58
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but Rebecca Guay has a kickstarter for her art book. It is already funded, but there is less than a month to go on it.
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tzirean posted:It's hard to make a symbol that small that's not just uniquely identifiable, but also distinguishable at a look from the hundred-odd other symbols you've made the same size in the same spot. Best set symbol discussion - go: I posit #1 : Ravnica, City of Guilds ... #N, where N=number of Magic sets in existence: Onslaught
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Feb 26, 2014 02:59
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Lord Of Texas posted:Best set symbol discussion - go: I always liked Tempest.
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Feb 26, 2014 03:04
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I'd rather have Onslaught's set symbol than 7th Edition's. This goes for basically anything about 7th Edition though.
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Feb 26, 2014 03:06
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GoutPatrol posted:Could you see using Plea for Guidance instead of Idyllic Tutor in any situation? I have a bunch of those don't don't feel like dropping 30 bucks more when I have alot of the Restore Balance parts already. Unfortunately it's just way too expensive. A double Idyllic Tutor isn't nearly as good as 2 Idyllic Tutors. A lot of the time you won't even get the 6 mana necessary for the Plea. I have 3 total so if I'm playing something that Blood Moon really hurts, I'll throw them all in with my Blood Moon as copies 2-4. Same for March of the Machines vs. something where a hoard of 3/3 beats is what I need. It makes me a little weaker vs. control, which is often a lost cause anyway, in that if the enchantment gets countered, I'm boned, but it's better vs. a lot of other decks where I might need to switch from "screw your lands" mode to beatdown mode. Not to mention you can find Ardent Plea with it if you're out of cascaders. All that having been said, you can easily go 2 Blood Moon 2 March main with a 3rd Moon in the side and not suffer too hard for it. If I remember right, that's what I did before I got the other 2 Tutors.
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Feb 26, 2014 03:07
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Lord Of Texas posted:Best set symbol discussion - go: 
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Feb 26, 2014 03:18
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I really liked Urza's Saga. 
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Feb 26, 2014 03:19
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GoutPatrol posted:Could you see using Plea for Guidance instead of Idyllic Tutor in any situation? I have a bunch of those don't don't feel like dropping 30 bucks more when I have alot of the Restore Balance parts already. Instead of? No. But it went straight into my Gisela EDH deck. 
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Feb 26, 2014 03:26
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Best expansion symbol for worst set: The Dark Worst expansion symbol for best set: ?
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Feb 26, 2014 04:23
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Lord Of Texas posted:#N, where N=number of Magic sets in existence: Onslaught Odd way to spell FtV:20.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:04
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I don't understand why the Duel Decks have to be such garbage. I mean, we've got: Premium Deck Series: Generally lovely but thematic. Event Decks: Almost FNM playable out the box. Duel Decks: Complete poo poo. What's the target for these anyway? It's certainly not for new players who want to get some new stuff to maybe get into an FNM. A bunch of the stuff in here is only legacy/vintage legal. Give them an Event Deck. It's not for tournament players. By the time this hits, RtR will be getting ready to rotate driving down all the RtR reprints like Underworld Connections. It's for like, I dunno, kitchen table only players who want a couple of planeswalkers and the unplayable leavings you find after a draft that people didn't want. Here's the theoretical selling points: Jace: Getting ready to rotate and will drop like a stone since he will never see Legacy play. Vraska: Pretty much unplayable in every format. Remand: lovely new art, but probably the best thing in the box value-wise. Wizards finally wiping after they poo poo the bed leaving this out of Modern Masters. Underworld Connections: Rotating with Jace and Vraska. Will probably be tanking by the time this is released. Come on now? Was there really any reason to shove Agoraphobia, Sadistic Augermage, and Drooling Groodion in here? The only real redeeming feature this has is the sweet new art on Body Double.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:08
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Toshimo posted:It's for like, I dunno, kitchen table only players who want a couple of planeswalkers and the unplayable leavings you find after a draft that people didn't want. Yes, it's for casual players who probably don't put a ton of money into Magic and, perhaps, want decks that would be fun to play with a friend that are relatively balanced and cheap. Something to play with significant others etc.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:15
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It seems pretty good for people who don't play Magic but want to start. You get two decks that are (hopefully) fairly balanced against each other, yet play rather differently. Kitchen table stuff is far more popular than tournament magic, and duel decks are more for that market than for tournament players.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:19
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Lord Of Texas posted:Best set symbol discussion - go: I dislike Odyssey and particularly Planeshift more than Onslaught. Ravnica's a fine pick for #1. My pick for "most underrated" might be Dark Ascension, but I don't know if it's top-5.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:22
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Duel decks are a cool and fun way of playing theoretically balanced decks between two players with no metagaming or card buying involved. Not every product is supposed to be Circus of Values.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:23
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ugh, remind me not to GIS Surgical Extraction. 
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Feb 26, 2014 05:27
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I do kinda like how the Duel Deck art for Remand depicts Deathrite Shaman getting banned.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:32
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Toshimo posted:
Is this true? Tibalt aside, most planeswalker prices general are pretty resilient after the first year of rotation. There seems to be three tiers of planeswalker prices: 5 bucks (not played in anything besides EDH) 10 (seen in fringe strategies) and 20-and-up (playable in multiple formats.)
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Feb 26, 2014 05:35
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Toshimo posted:It's not for tournament players. By the time this hits, RtR will be getting ready to rotate driving down all the RtR reprints like Underworld Connections. It releases March 14. That's only three weeks from now.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:38
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GoutPatrol posted:Is this true? Tibalt aside, most planeswalker prices general are pretty resilient after the first year of rotation. There seems to be three tiers of planeswalker prices: 5 bucks (not played in anything besides EDH) 10 (seen in fringe strategies) and 20-and-up (playable in multiple formats.) He'll probably drop to around Tamiyo price I'd guess? in the 5-10 range, but thats 1/2 of where he is now. It'll just happen much sooner than rotation because for $20 you get a jace, a vraska, and a remand. Ravnica remands might keep some value, but new remands will be like $5.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:41
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Toshimo posted:I don't understand why the Duel Decks have to be such garbage. They are for casual players, who it bears repeating again, far outnumber "serious" or "competitive" players, and make Wizards most of their money. You can't really complain when they put out product targeted directly at the majority of their customers because it doesn't have much appeal to the minority affected by the tournament viability or financial value of the cards included. I can't believe how often we have to rehash this poo poo. "Why are Duel Decks bad" "Why haven't they reprinted X" "Why won't Wizards immediately address the concerns of a minority of their customers" if you're posting in this forum constantly remind yourself you're in the minority of Magic customers and that's probably going to answer most "Why did WOTC do/not do X" type of questions.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:47
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Stinky Pit posted:"Why won't Wizards immediately address the concerns of a minority of their customers" Wizards is a lot of things, but bad at marketing and not understanding how consumer psychographics work isn't one of them.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:50
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Stinky Pit posted:They are for casual players, who it bears repeating again, far outnumber "serious" or "competitive" players, and make Wizards most of their money. You can't really complain when they put out product targeted directly at the majority of their customers because it doesn't have much appeal to the minority affected by the tournament viability or financial value of the cards included. Well, you didn't actually address the question of why this necessitates that duel decks be bad. The target audience you rightly point out will probably not turn their nose up at a duel deck that is somewhat better or offers a decent value (and no, it doesn't have to be "all the cards for $20" to be a decent value, before you trot that one out again). To put it another way--adding just one more value Modern rare to the duel deck in place of Vinelasher Kudzu or whatever will probably not significantly alienate these casual players from purchasing the product, whereas not having anything remarkable CAN alienate the competitive players, thus leaving money on the table. This is a case where Wizards can eat their cake and have it too. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Feb 26, 2014 |
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Feb 26, 2014 05:55
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Tharizdun posted:Hey yo if you seriously believe this last one isn't a valid argument you are very dumb or have never studied marketing or analytics. That would only be relevant if Wizard didn't spend significant time and energy running programs and creating product directly geared to appeal to the core audience who would be advocates. Serious Magic players get excellent product for their two most popular formats year round and get to enjoy an organized play experience that's the envy of the Games industry. When serious players have a moan about the quality of something like a Duel Deck comes off as either terribly entitled, or unaware of the demographics of magic customers. Lets not pretend for a minute that serious and competitive players are Marginalized by Wizards. JerryLee posted:Well, you didn't actually address the question of why this necessitates that duel decks be bad. Because they are only "bad" in the context of competitive and serious players. Arguing that it wouldn't be a bad thing to put more value in the decks misses the point. They aren't trying to make them appealing to the serious players on purpose, so that actual casuals get them and enjoy them, hopefully at MSRP. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Feb 26, 2014 |
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Feb 26, 2014 05:57
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JerryLee posted:Well, you didn't actually address the question of why this necessitates that duel decks be bad. The target audience you rightly point out will probably not turn their nose up at a duel deck that is somewhat better or offers a decent value (and no, it doesn't have to be "all the cards for $20" to be a decent value, before you trot that one out again). Because "bad" is a subjective thing based partly on the level you regularly play at and it turns out that dudes who play around the kitchen table might evaluate poo poo a bit differently from people who post trip reports on MURDERGOATS and poo poo.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:57
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