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Excelzior
Jun 24, 2013

zedprime posted:

Int doesn't really do anything for mages either beyond scribe chance and spell book size (I don't think level restrictions were ever implemented for low int?)

IIRC it's not in the original but it's one of the fixed bugs in the Enhanced Edition of the game.

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DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

Yeah, I remember your NPC mages like Neera and Imoen can't scribe level 9 spells without an intelligence potion.

netcat
Apr 29, 2008

Excelzior posted:

IIRC it's not in the original but it's one of the fixed bugs in the Enhanced Edition of the game.

I seem to remember having to drink int potions to learn level 4/5 spells in original BG a million years ago because I rolled a mage with 13 intelligence

Smol
Jun 1, 2011

Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus.

netcat posted:

I seem to remember having to drink int potions to learn level 4/5 spells in original BG a million years ago because I rolled a mage with 13 intelligence

Maybe it was to learn enough spells? I don't remember the exact numbers, but a Mage with 13 intelligence can't learn too many spells per level.

rakovsky maybe
Nov 4, 2008
A mage with 13 int only has a 55% chance to scribe spells so you were probably guzzling potions to avoid failing almost half the time.

Suspicious
Apr 30, 2005
You know he's the villain, because he's got shifty eyes.
Intelligence limiting the amount of spells per level and the max spell level you can copy has always been there. There was a bug, however, with level 9 spells where intelligence was not checked and copying was always successful. This level 9 bug has been fixed.

Intelligence is still mostly useless because of the availability of potions of genius and potions of mind focusing.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.
Is there a mod for Baldur's Gate I and II that will isnta-rest your party until everybody is healed and all spells are recharged after every fight in a dungeon? Having to rest three times in a row after every fight and click past the resting movie is a bit tedious.

gdsfjkl
Feb 28, 2011
Fortunately, you don't even need mods - there is an option somewhere in the menus called "rest until healed".

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

GreatGreen posted:

Is there a mod for Baldur's Gate I and II that will isnta-rest your party until everybody is healed and all spells are recharged after every fight in a dungeon? Having to rest three times in a row after every fight and click past the resting movie is a bit tedious.

Didn't they add rest until healed? I forget. I liked the way they tweaked it in IWD where, if someone was at like 2/50 hit points, you would just rest sixteen hours instead of eight and they would be fully healed. It was at least a little less immersion-breaking than a guy squatting in one room of a cave for four days straight to recover from a particularly bad critical hit.

Also, some random PST questions, mostly about the janky combat:

-Is it worthwhile to switch classes back to fighter to implement those unused weapon proficiencies? Even as a magic-user I find myself wading into melee quite a bit, because TNO has no ranged weapon options and spells still run out pretty quick, even at higher levels.

-Similarly, should I bother pumping DEX once I've gotten both WIS, INT and CHA up there? Seems like it'd be useful no matter what.

-Does Dakkon kind of suck, or am I just using him wrong?

-I know the game lets you join whatever faction you want, but is there a specific order/timing to it I should be utilizing to avoid problems? I'm concerned that the second I leave the Dustmen I'm going to run into another dungeon chocked to the brim with undead :ohdear:

scamtank
Feb 24, 2011

my desire to just be a FUCKING IDIOT all day long is rapidly overtaking my ability to FUNCTION

i suspect that means i'm MENTALLY ILL


1.) Oh, yeah. Those proficiencies are really the key to effective damage dealing in melee. Since you can switch back and forth on the fly with Dak'kon's help, there's no reason not to. Grandmastery in knives goes a long way as a mage.

2.) You do see that you can raise your stats past 18, right? Since WIS directly affects your experience income, there's a really good incentive to have that as high as possible.

3.) He turns into a melee monster if you can solve his crisis of faith. You're a mage, ask him to teach you the Way of Zerthimon.

4.) There won't be much in the way of undead from now on. Once you get the opportunity to choose, you're better off joining the Sensates. Once you've exhausted everything they have to offer, you might as well hop aboard with the Godsmen. You need to wiggle your way inside their Foundry at a certain point anyway.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

gdsfjkl posted:

Fortunately, you don't even need mods - there is an option somewhere in the menus called "rest until healed".

They did, but if everybody is mostly ok, you still have to rest multiple times for your sorcerers to get all their spells back.

Maybe it would be easier if you could just make resting always last 24 hours.

Iggles
Nov 24, 2004

By Jove! Commoners!

GreatGreen posted:

They did, but if everybody is mostly ok, you still have to rest multiple times for your sorcerers to get all their spells back.

Maybe it would be easier if you could just make resting always last 24 hours.

Sorry but that's just bollocks - every time you rest you regain all spells,no matter your party's health. You're doing something wrong

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

Iggles posted:

Sorry but that's just bollocks - every time you rest you regain all spells,no matter your party's health. You're doing something wrong

Weird, you're right. I just tested it.

I could have sworn my spells weren't regening last night when I was resting.

the fart question
Mar 21, 2007

College Slice

GreatGreen posted:

Weird, you're right. I just tested it.

I could have sworn my spells weren't regening last night when I was resting.

If you get level drained you lose spell slots and spells in them. Frustrating!

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

gender illusionist posted:

If you get level drained you lose spell slots and spells in them. Frustrating!

Or if they die and you reequip items that give bonus slots.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.
So as somebody who is just learning the spell system of this game, would somebody mind explaining spell levels to me? Are 1st level spells inherently weaker than higher levels of spells, or are they just meant to be cast more often?

Also, dual classing sounds neat but it sounds like you have to pick an archetype per encounter with a dual classed guy, as you can't really wear armor when you cast. Are there any classes that can wear armor and wield large weapons while also being able to cast, like something close to a WoW Shaman?

amanasleep
May 21, 2008

GreatGreen posted:

So as somebody who is just learning the spell system of this game, would somebody mind explaining spell levels to me? Are 1st level spells inherently weaker than higher levels of spells, or are they just meant to be cast more often?

Also, dual classing sounds neat but it sounds like you have to pick an archetype per encounter with a dual classed guy, as you can't really wear armor when you cast. Are there any classes that can wear armor and wield large weapons while also being able to cast, like something close to a WoW Shaman?

Cleric, Fighter/Cleric, Fighter/Druid, Ranger/Cleric. You can also play as a Fighter/Mage and wear certain armors (specifically Elven Chain Mail, which you can get pretty early).

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

GreatGreen posted:

So as somebody who is just learning the spell system of this game, would somebody mind explaining spell levels to me? Are 1st level spells inherently weaker than higher levels of spells, or are they just meant to be cast more often?
Higher level spells are supposed to be more powerful, though the utility of spells will vary. As a result you will likely find some low level spells more useful than many high level ones.

Draile posted:

Whenever I needed CHA, which is really just for shopping, I put the ring on. When I was done, I took the ring off. There is no need for CHA in BG2.
Keldorn as party leader with the helm that boosts Cha is also a good way to have low prices without having to equip and unequip rings. (Which can be a problem for casters wearing two rings granting extra spells since they lose them and then need to refill the slots.)

biscuits and crazy
Oct 10, 2012
Low level spells are not necessarily weaker than higher levels, you'll just get the maximum amount of spells (5 per level as a specialist) quicker. Magic Missile for instance is a useful spell throughout the entire game.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

amanasleep posted:

Cleric, Fighter/Cleric, Fighter/Druid, Ranger/Cleric. You can also play as a Fighter/Mage and wear certain armors (specifically Elven Chain Mail, which you can get pretty early).

Cool, thanks. Sorry I wasn't being clear, I meant to ask if you could be something more like an Enhancement or Elementalist Shaman, who blends melee and lightning/storm offenses and defenses, not a Restoration Shaman. Something closer to a Thane, really.

I'm not too sure about the extent of the game's spells but if there are a significant amount of "storm" themed spells then I'm guessing it could probably be possible to do this with a fighter/mage dual class.

GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Feb 26, 2014

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

GreatGreen posted:

So as somebody who is just learning the spell system of this game, would somebody mind explaining spell levels to me? Are 1st level spells inherently weaker than higher levels of spells, or are they just meant to be cast more often?

Also, dual classing sounds neat but it sounds like you have to pick an archetype per encounter with a dual classed guy, as you can't really wear armor when you cast. Are there any classes that can wear armor and wield large weapons while also being able to cast, like something close to a WoW Shaman?
It often is the case that damage spells are inherently stronger as you go up in levels. An exception to this is skull trap. It really helps to look at the damage dice and level multipliers when viewing spells. AC buffing spells fall in a similar boat, and spell removal to an extent as well (although you don't have to toy with this much in an unmodded BG game).

Spell descriptions are usually quite literal too. If it says a spell hits enemies, it will thus not cause friendly fire. If it hits everything, then be prepared for friendly fire.

Everything else pretty much only differs in utility value between spell levels. Like Sleep is super powerful for its spell level, but if you read its description you will see its effectiveness is restricted by hit dice (hp levels basically), so its utility goes down the chute as you progress further in the game. You get slightly different versions of sleep later in the game, but crowd control spells will generally operate the same.

The spell system can be kind of a nuisance to get behind but it really amounts to just reading the spell descriptions. If you don't want to bother, then a walking artillery platform is sufficient and can't really go wrong. It's just not always the most useful.

amanasleep
May 21, 2008

GreatGreen posted:

Cool, thanks. Sorry I wasn't being clear, I meant to ask if you could be something more like an Enhancement or Elementalist Shaman, who blends melee and lightning/storm offenses and defenses, not a Restoration Shaman. Something closer to a Thane, really.

I'm not too sure about the extent of the game's spells but if there are a significant amount of "storm" themed spells then I'm guessing it could probably be possible to do this with a fighter/mage dual class.

If you want to fight in Melee and get lots of storm theme spells, go with Fighter/Druid or Cleric/Ranger.

the fart question
Mar 21, 2007

College Slice

amanasleep posted:

If you want to fight in Melee and get lots of storm theme spells, go with Fighter/Druid or Cleric/Ranger.

I'd do the latter (or fighter/cleric if you've used the fixpack to allow grand mastery for multiclass) for the cool Storm of Vengeance

amanasleep
May 21, 2008

gender illusionist posted:

I'd do the latter (or fighter/cleric if you've used the fixpack to allow grand mastery for multiclass) for the cool Storm of Vengeance

Both of them get that as a Quest spell pick.

Draile
May 6, 2004

forlorn llama
I'd choose a fighter/cleric over a fighter/druid, even though it means giving up iron skins, because of the excruciating druid xp barrier at levels 13-14. You won't get over that hump until you have three million druid xp which is six million character xp.

amanasleep
May 21, 2008

Draile posted:

I'd choose a fighter/cleric over a fighter/druid, even though it means giving up iron skins, because of the excruciating druid xp barrier at levels 13-14. You won't get over that hump until you have three million druid xp which is six million character xp.

Simple answer is to play Berzerker -> Druid instead.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.
I have a question about character importing and exporting.

From what I can tell in the interface, it looks like you can pretty much export and import your character at basically any time. Does this mean you can take a character that's about to beat the game, export it to a file, and then import that character just as it is when you start a new game?

In other words, can you use importing and exporting as kind of a poor man's New Game+?

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

GreatGreen posted:

Does this mean you can take a character that's about to beat the game, export it to a file, and then import that character just as it is when you start a new game?

Yes.

If you're in BG2, you'll lose all your equipment as part of the opening ingame cutscene (I don't know if they patched the exploit that lets you pause the game on the black screen just before Irenicus speaks to you to dump it all to the ground, though).

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

GreatGreen posted:

In other words, can you use importing and exporting as kind of a poor man's New Game+?
Indeed. I think it's only worth doing in Icewind Dale 1 and 2 though, where you can play in Heart of Fury mode the second time. Otherwise your PC will be too overlevelled to be challenged by the game.

(You could do it in BG1 to say have revenge on all those wolves around Candlekeep that keep one-shotting level 1 PCs though.)

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Yes.

If you're in BG2, you'll lose all your equipment as part of the opening ingame cutscene (I don't know if they patched the exploit that lets you pause the game on the black screen just before Irenicus speaks to you to dump it all to the ground, though).

Oh wow, that's cool. So then a devoted player could do something like:

1st playthrough - fighter until end game
2nd playthrough - immediate mage dual-class at start
3rd playthrough - unstoppable war god


Neat.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

GreatGreen posted:

Oh wow, that's cool. So then a devoted player could do something like:

1st playthrough - fighter until end game
2nd playthrough - immediate mage dual-class at start
3rd playthrough - unstoppable war god


Neat.

At that point though you might as well just CLUAConsole the exp you need because you're really just going through the motions :v:

Draile
May 6, 2004

forlorn llama

GreatGreen posted:

Oh wow, that's cool. So then a devoted player could do something like:

1st playthrough - fighter until end game
2nd playthrough - immediate mage dual-class at start
3rd playthrough - unstoppable war god


Neat.

It's kind of cool but mostly a novelty. If you're only doing "new game+" for the character development you might as well get an editor and add the stats (BG1) or xp (BG2).

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

Its not at all the same as just using an editor. That's like saying you might as well just cheat in +1 to each stat on your character in BG2 instead of playing through BG1 and getting the stat tomes.

Arcaeris
Mar 15, 2006
you feed the girls to other girls

:stare:

fong posted:

Its not at all the same as just using an editor. That's like saying you might as well just cheat in +1 to each stat on your character in BG2 instead of playing through BG1 and getting the stat tomes.

You should, though? I mean, unless you love BG1, it's not nearly as good of a game as BG2.

Who's going to judge you if you do? Yourself?

EDIT:
It's pointless anyway. Rather than play through 2 whole games so you can be a "god of destruction" in the 3rd playthrough, you can do it in one playthrough with many, many builds.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.
If you just go through the game normally, at about what level will most non-dual or non-multi-classed characters beat the game? Also, how far apart in power will two characters of the same class be if one does all the sidequests he comes across and the other does none?

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

GreatGreen posted:

If you just go through the game normally, at about what level will most non-dual or non-multi-classed characters beat the game? Also, how far apart in power will two characters of the same class be if one does all the sidequests he comes across and the other does none?

Depending on how thorough you are, you'll probably be close to 3 million XP by the time you get to the end of SoA, maybe a little extra.

Corvinus
Aug 21, 2006

Skwirl posted:

Depending on how thorough you are, you'll probably be close to 3 million XP by the time you get to the end of SoA, maybe a little extra.

I had to check since I haven't done a full 6 man, single class run in many years, but that's close. Full SoA sidequests without any WK is 3 to 3.5 million exp, which is levels 18-25 for single classers (bards, thieves and clerics near the higher end). Technically the majority of content in SoA is not necessary to complete the game so a low completion run would be up to several levels lower.

Corvinus fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Mar 2, 2014

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.
Thanks guys. So how common are single-character runs? Is it even possible to do without min-maxing the hell out of the game? Would just setting the difficulty to the easiest setting be the equivalent of normal with a full party?

MegaGatts
Dec 12, 2004

The Enteroctopus dofleini, also known as the giant Pacific octopus (GPO) or North Pacific giant octopus, is a large marine cephalopod belonging to the phylum Mollusca and is tripping balls.

GreatGreen posted:

Thanks guys. So how common are single-character runs? Is it even possible to do without min-maxing the hell out of the game? Would just setting the difficulty to the easiest setting be the equivalent of normal with a full party?

I pretty much only play one or two characters anymore, and some classes are easier than others but most are do able. Heck, I managed to solo a monk through the entire trilogy. For a fun solo game fighter/mage/thief is pretty much the most straight forward. Ranger/Cleric is also fun. If you have a really good handle on the magic system any mage or sorcerer is pretty fun.

For you first solo I recommend a half elf fighter/mage/thief. Jack up strength, constitution, dexterity, and intelligence. Use wisdom as your dump stat because even if you're going to turn off the xp cap potions of insight are common enough that there's no reason to raise wisdom. Try and keep charisma decent if you're going to do a full trilogy run for shop keepers in BG1. If you're starting with BG2 dump charisma too.(Then roll it over to 25 :v: )

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Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

fong posted:

Its not at all the same as just using an editor. That's like saying you might as well just cheat in +1 to each stat on your character in BG2 instead of playing through BG1 and getting the stat tomes.

Indeed you should.

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