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Very Australian cab savs few have alcohols above 15% now that the Robert Parker craze has died down, the best come from cooler regions like Coonawarra or the Yarra Valley and can have alcohol as low as 12.5%. I don't think you know as much about viticulture and climate as you think you do. It's been a while since I've had a flick through Gladstones but there is quite a complex relationship between continentality, diurnal variations, climate, sunlight hours and eventual grape quality. Bordeaux is precisely what most people would describe as a moderate climate as opposed to the cool climates of Burgundy, the cold climates of Champagne and the warm to hot climates in the southern Rhone regions. Carmenere was reasonably well regarded in Bordeaux before phylloxera but it was prone to disease and had low yields so when they replanted their vines on rootstocks very little of that variety was retained for commercial reasons. Now there is a bit of renewed interest and some of the more quality conscious growers are replanting it for their blends. I have tried a great deal of different grape varieties and if I have learned one thing it is that criticizing them out of hand is really dumb because each really needs to be in their own niche to thrive, but when they are in such a favourable location they can be as god as any other. The obvious exception are those ridiculous mega high yielding varieties recently bred for making brandy and wine vinegar.
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Jan 28, 2014 00:08
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gay picnic defence posted:Very Australian cab savs few have alcohols above 15% now that the Robert Parker craze has died down, the best come from cooler regions like Coonawarra or the Yarra Valley and can have alcohol as low as 12.5%. I don't think you know as much about viticulture and climate as you think you do. It's been a while since I've had a flick through Gladstones but there is quite a complex relationship between continentality, diurnal variations, climate, sunlight hours and eventual grape quality. Bordeaux is precisely what most people would describe as a moderate climate as opposed to the cool climates of Burgundy, the cold climates of Champagne and the warm to hot climates in the southern Rhone regions. Carmenere was reasonably well regarded in Bordeaux before phylloxera but it was prone to disease and had low yields so when they replanted their vines on rootstocks very little of that variety was retained for commercial reasons. Now there is a bit of renewed interest and some of the more quality conscious growers are replanting it for their blends. I have tried a great deal of different grape varieties and if I have learned one thing it is that criticizing them out of hand is really dumb because each really needs to be in their own niche to thrive, but when they are in such a favourable location they can be as god as any other. The obvious exception are those ridiculous mega high yielding varieties recently bred for making brandy and wine vinegar. I absolutely agree that the best Cabs in Oz are more restrained, but on North American markets, we're not past the Parker effect. The most important Aussie Cab is still Penfolds Bin 407, coming in at 14.7%, 6 g/L RS. As for climate, those measures remain true relative to each other, but they're based on how things were nearly a hundred years ago! Climate change has had a huge impact on nearly every wine region on earth. The legendary 1945 vintage in Bordeaux had a mean temperature of 13.3 C, which would not be surpassed until 1990. Since 1990, we have had fourteen hotter vintages. The mean temperature of Bordeaux in the 50s was about 4 C cooler than Marseille, now it's 1 C cooler than Marseille was then. If Bordeaux is still "moderate", it means what we call moderate has shifted dramatically since we started calling regions that. Places like Tasmania and Ontario are emerging as sources of great vinifera wine. This wouldn't have been possible 50 years ago. Whatever you want to call it, Bordeaux's climate was considered a moderate a hundred years ago, and it's a lot, lot warmer there now. As for Carmenere, I don't think I need to restate my opinion of it, but again I will emphasise that growers chose not to replant almost any it in Bordeaux, and its only significant replantings of it anywhere else in the world were accidental. I will admit that I've only had a couple dozen samples of it in my lifetime because I find it so offensive, but I honestly do look forward to having my opinion changed. If you have any to recommend, I'd be happy to try to track them down. Finally, I get what you're saying about giving all grapes their chance. But I think I place more value on generalisations than perhaps some of you do. I consider grapes like Riesling and Syrah great, because besides making outstanding wines, I can have bottles of middling quality and still enjoy them. I can't say the same of Trebbiano Toscano and Carmenere, and I think being able to find consistently enjoyable wines is equally, if not more useful than finding rare gems.
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Jan 28, 2014 01:16
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I have a question completely unrelated to red Bordeaux about the Südtirol/Alto Adige region. The one bottle of wine I've ever had that haunts me in a good way is a bottle of white wine from this region and because I am an idiot and didn't take a picture of the label with my phone all I can remember is that it had some small percentage of Sauvignon Blanc in the blend. Does anyone know more about this particular region? I live in an area that is not very good when it comes to being able to access a broad variety of wines and so I haven't really been able to gain more exposure to wines from this area. I am fortunate enough to be able to travel and might be able to pick up some bottles on a trip. I know that the best thing to do is to just go and taste, but as that's not a part of Italy that I would travel to otherwise, any suggestions or guidance about producers would be welcome.
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Feb 2, 2014 20:19
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Very interesting replies regarding Bordeaux! I appreciate the stance Kasumeat. I sympathize with you on some of those varieties but I started off in wine loving some of them and I feel a need to try them on their home turf. I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to try the best Bordeaux but I suppose I'll taste what there is to taste at my price level and make some decisions... I was recently in Ithaca NY and was able to do a tasting up the east side of Seneca Lake. The standout was definitely Hector Wine Co. Such a tasty 2012 Riesling, full of lime which is weird but delicious, and they are collaborating with the Gigondas vigneron of Chateau St Cosme to make a Riesling and Pinot noir. Worth checking out if you're in the area. Damiani was also awesome.
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Feb 3, 2014 04:53
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I need a few bottles of cheap wine ($10-$14 range). I'm looking for something red, dry, spicy, thick, and leathery. Ideas?
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Feb 3, 2014 05:10
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PRADA SLUT posted:I need a few bottles of cheap wine ($10-$14 range). Fairview Pinotage! One of the best values I've found for reds under $15. Under the right conditions it can be positively bacon-y.
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Feb 3, 2014 05:25
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I've had a few good Napa reds recently, and I noticed they shared a very concentrated flavor profile that I haven't noticed elsewhere. I'm not sure if that's how others describe it, but I'm wondering how that works out in aging the wines.
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Feb 9, 2014 04:12
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Concentrated flavour is generally good in wines for aging, but in some warmer climates (I'm thinking of the Barossa Valley and McLaren Vale here in Australia) it can come at the price of an overly high alcohol content. This can be fine when the wine is young because there is a lot of 'structure' in the wine to mask the sweetness and heat of the alcohol, but as the wine ages the structure 'softens' which can cause the alcohol to become too pronounced and detract from the overall quality of the wine. That said I've tried some very delicate wines that have aged very well so flavour concentration isn't the be all and end of all of aging wine.
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Feb 9, 2014 06:03
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Personally, I think concentrated or "extracted" fruit structures will age well, but only insofar as they will not change for some time, then they will fall off the table and become garbage. They taste pretty good young, and they last for some years, but they don't really change. In my experience, the major key to ageing can be reduced down to acid. If you look at all the classic examples of ageable wine, be they delicate or full bodied, the one they have in common is acid.
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Feb 9, 2014 07:50
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Acid is good but I'd say that having all components of the wine (tannin (where applicable), acid, alcohol, body, sweetness/RS and flavour) in balance with each other is, at least in my experience a better predictor of a wine's ageing potential.
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Feb 9, 2014 08:36
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I had wine from Jura for the first time. Fruit jam on the nose, and German lager on the palate. Was I tasting brett?
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Feb 14, 2014 05:12
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So after reading Poe again for the first time in years, I want to try Amontillado for curiosity's sake. However, I've only recently started getting interested in wine, and I have never had one, let alone any kind of sherry. How would I go about picking a good bottle to try? VVV: Yeah I've tried a fair number of "normal" wines and am still in the process of learning. This is just a passing interest, just so I know what Amontillado tastes like. I don't want to end up with a horrible bottle so I asked for help, but it sounds like this might be more of an "acquired taste" kind of thing where I might hate the first sip no matter how "good" it may be? Archer2338 fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 05:13
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Why are you starting with Sherry? After 15 years in the wine industry I have only recently acquired a taste for Sherry. Don't get me wrong it's delicious and under-appreciated, but the flavors are not like anything else you find in the wine world. I feel like you could turn yourself off to Sherry in the long run if you push the issue. You're almost better developing your palate on other wines until you have the perspective to bring back to Sherry. Just my two cents. EDIT: Oh, you're doing it because of Poe. Well, my warning stands. If you want to enjoy Sherry, seek out a gateway wine first.
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Feb 24, 2014 06:45
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Got any gateway wine recommendations? For me it was drinking some super sweet sparkling Italian wine. It was cheap too! Then I tried my uncle's Margaux and that was yummy. I think Moscato is a decent gateway wine. Nothing too strong, kind of on the sweeter side. Speaking of wines, I recently tried a few, can someone please give me more background knowledge on each? Thanks! I was having some amazing French food at Robouchon for lunch. There was a tasting sommelier tasting special so I gave it a shot. I have mad respect for them, they were the ones that really got me interested in drinking wines.  It's a Riesling. But I didn't find anything special with it. It tasted kind of "flat". A bit too sweet for me too. I think I had better Rieslings before. Last time I had a decent Chablis. This one is a miss for me  I don't know the price  This was the red one. The nose is slightly vagrant and not too fruity. I didn't like the taste, the tannins/taste was a bit "sharp" like generic table wine. There's no after flavour, mouthfeel or texture or anything. I was really disappointed. I don't know the price  I remember my Brother in law loves Saint Julien. He wasn't with me and I was at a steak house, so I picked this one. Oh my goodness it was awesome. Normally I'm quite apprehensive with Bordeaux's. The nose was more subdued but dulled. The taste was great, good texture, and the dryness perfect. It was so easy to drink a bottle of this. The tannin and taste was subdued again but the after taste glows from your throat. Oh my goodness I want to drink another bottle. Restaurant charged 216 USD for the bottle, I suspect retail goes for half like 108 USD?  The next day, MY GIRLFRIEND had a successful job offer so she wanted to celebrate and take me out for French food. It was only the 2 of us and so I elected to try a half bottle. This one had a much fruitier nose and a sharper taste. Texture wise I feel is more complex than the Saint Julien with a even drier taste. She likes this one more than I do because of the fruity nose. Restaurant charged 108 for half bottle, I suspect retail goes for half, so 59 USD? I can't afford to drink this kind of wine everyday, I know Bordeaux have subpar value, anyone got cheaper alternatives that I can look for? The supermarket had a special sale and promotion the other day. So I bought on impulse a whole case  Can someone please tell me more about Louis Jadot? I really want to give smaller name wineries a chance but what's the success story behind Louis Jadot?
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Feb 26, 2014 07:59
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caberham posted:Got any gateway wine recommendations? For me it was drinking some super sweet sparkling Italian wine. It was cheap too! Then I tried my uncle's Margaux and that was yummy. I think Moscato is a decent gateway wine. Nothing too strong, kind of on the sweeter side. You're in Japan right? If you've got a Yamaya around, the ones in Tokyo have this guy at the moment for 3,000 yen. I had a bottle this weekend and it seems to meet your criteria. 
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Feb 26, 2014 08:19
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Stringent posted:You're in Japan right? I was in Japan 2 weeks ago for vacation, but I'm in Hong Kong. Taxes are 0 here! I will try that bottle you listed sometime. I'm trying to get my friends into wine. Unfortunately, in East Asia it's either a giant circle jerk for French, dick waving over wine points, and having an air of classicism when you drink wines  My biggest problem is that I'm a light weight and I get wasted too easily. I really want to try to find 20 USD pinot noir, Malbecs, Chilean, and other New World stuff. But everyone here mostly drinks big name old world
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Feb 26, 2014 08:24
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It's worth noting that nicer restaurants typically mark wine up by 3x. That 2004 Talbot is more like $50-60 USD retail. Also, 2005 was a super ripe vintage, probably one reason you're getting more ripe fruit of that one. How is the Robuchon there? I was previously manager/somm at L'Atelier and Robuchon in Vegas.
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Feb 26, 2014 11:40
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You don't want to know the price of the Dugat-Py.
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Feb 26, 2014 18:20
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What's the thread's thoughts on affordable-ish bubbly wines? I was always kind of meh on Champagne until I had a glass of a nice (Pierre Gimonnet 1er Cru I think?) blanc de blancs at Jean Georges last year and would like to get a few varied bottles to have around for special occasions that aren't cheap but don't break the bank. I'll probably get a bottle or two like that PG (should be around $50 apiece, yeah?), but someone mentioned Baud Cremant du Jura Brut which isn't "champagne" but would you say it fills that niche at a lower price point? Ideally I'd like to be spending around $30 a bottle, and maybe get 3 or 4 different ones to mix it up a little.
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Feb 26, 2014 20:47
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Something I've found is that sparkling wine from cooler regions that aren't Champagne are far better value than Champagne itself unless you are desperate to drink the real thing.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:11
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himajinga posted:What's the thread's thoughts on affordable-ish bubbly wines? I was always kind of meh on Champagne until I had a glass of a nice (Pierre Gimonnet 1er Cru I think?) blanc de blancs at Jean Georges last year and would like to get a few varied bottles to have around for special occasions that aren't cheap but don't break the bank. I'll probably get a bottle or two like that PG (should be around $50 apiece, yeah?), but someone mentioned Baud Cremant du Jura Brut which isn't "champagne" but would you say it fills that niche at a lower price point? Ideally I'd like to be spending around $30 a bottle, and maybe get 3 or 4 different ones to mix it up a little. I get the impression it's the autolytic character that defines (good) Champagne that you're looking for, and Cremant de Jura is the most reliably autolytic at reasonable price point. Pick up a few bottles and see which producers you prefer. Franciacorta, especially the styles that require longer lees contact (Saten, Rose, Millesimato, and especially Riserva), is generally a better Champagne impression than Jura, but can be surprisingly hard to find and nearly as expensive as the real thing. Other than that, unfortunately you really have to be familiar with individual producers. There are a lot of traditional method sparklers out there that are mineral, balanced, and delicious, but unfortunately those that combine this with the depth and intensity of Champagne are few.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:37
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caberham posted:I was in Japan 2 weeks ago for vacation, but I'm in Hong Kong. Taxes are 0 here! I will try that bottle you listed sometime. I'm trying to get my friends into wine. Unfortunately, in East Asia it's either a giant circle jerk for French, dick waving over wine points, and having an air of classicism when you drink wines In East Asia if they're looking for New World wine it's usually Robert Mondavi. You wouldn't believe how many nouveau riche come in asking for Opus One. In Japan, the popularity of of a certain manga has driven wine prices onwards and upwards. As for a twenty dollar USD pinot noir, I would recommend the Belle Glos Meiomi or Raeburn Pinot Noir. But I have no idea how you would get them in Hong Kong. LEGO Genetics fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 02:24
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himajinga posted:What's the thread's thoughts on affordable-ish bubbly wines? I was always kind of meh on Champagne until I had a glass of a nice (Pierre Gimonnet 1er Cru I think?) blanc de blancs at Jean Georges last year and would like to get a few varied bottles to have around for special occasions that aren't cheap but don't break the bank. I'll probably get a bottle or two like that PG (should be around $50 apiece, yeah?), but someone mentioned Baud Cremant du Jura Brut which isn't "champagne" but would you say it fills that niche at a lower price point? Ideally I'd like to be spending around $30 a bottle, and maybe get 3 or 4 different ones to mix it up a little. Cava, Cava, Cava. Did I say Cava? Oh, yeah, Prosecco too. A $30 bottle of Cava is going to be a better 'bubbly wine' than a $60 (or even higher priced) bottle from Champagne.
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Feb 28, 2014 21:02
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Murgos posted:Cava, Cava, Cava. Did I say Cava? Oh, yeah, Prosecco too. A $30 bottle of Cava is going to be a better 'bubbly wine' than a $60 (or even higher priced) bottle from Champagne. I enjoy sparkling wines from all areas and at a lot of different price points, but 95% of Cava is not worth drinking at any price IMO. It's not that I think the wines are flawed, I'm pretty sure I just hate the grapes that go into Cava. YMMV.
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Feb 28, 2014 23:36
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So this is more of a actual serious wine-related question than my last one: What would be some "versatile" wines to bring to an Italian BYO restaurant? I know there won't be a fine that fits everything, but assuming that people at the table order something other than beef steak (fish, chicken, maybe veal; pastas), what two bottles would you recommend I bring that'll cover a wide range? Not really looking for a perfect fit; just generally going well enough so that it doesn't clash and give us bad aftertastes and whatnot. I have a California Pinot Noir, Chardonnay from Pouilly-Fuissé, a California Zinfandel, and a sweet Riesling from WA; I could also get more, but being in Philadelphia, I'm going to have a hard time finding specific wines, so general recommendations would be appreciated...
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Mar 2, 2014 23:02
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Cru Beaujolais is regarded as one of the most versatile wines for pairing with food, one of those wouldn't hurt.
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Mar 2, 2014 23:42
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Archer2338 posted:So this is more of a actual serious wine-related question than my last one: Beaujolais is a good choice for red, although certainly a good Chianti or Barbera would be a great choice too considering the cuisine. You'll probably want to start with a white: pretty much anything high acid and not too sweet is excellent for food, from your Riesling (I assume by "sweet" you mean off-dry as opposed to dessert-sweet; if it's more than ~20g/L of sugar that's pushing it) to (most) wines from Pouilly-Fuisse, to sparkling, and so on.
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Mar 3, 2014 02:13
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With Italian cuisine I'd recommend you bring your Pouilly-Fuisse and your CA Pinot Noir. Pinot goes great with red sauce and mushrooms, although a Chianti/Brunello will be much better.
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Mar 3, 2014 02:42
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Archer2338 posted:So this is more of a actual serious wine-related question than my last one: I always like pairing regional food and regional wine, and even if it's just a catch-all "Italian" restaurant that's still not a bad idea. You could always go with a Langhe Nebbiolo, like Vietti's Perbacco or something north of Barolo like Ghemme or Gattinara. Many of the 2008s that are out now are fantastic. For white you could go with something like Vernaccia di San Gimignano. Pinot Grigio is always easy. Greco di Tufo is harder to find, but can be interesting.
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Mar 3, 2014 02:44
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Thanks guys! I don't have time to go to a shop this week so I'll probably be taking the Chardonnay and Pinot Noir for now. I'll definitely look for the wines you guys recommended the next time I'm at the store, though (drat you PA and your archaic laws!).
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Mar 4, 2014 15:21
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How do you know when a wine is still closed? Does the structure not show? Does the body seem too firm?
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Mar 8, 2014 05:33
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that Vai sound posted:How do you know when a wine is still closed? Does the structure not show? Does the body seem too firm? Opposite, fruit is muted, acid and tannin are out of balance and very forward. Edit - I should expand on this. Just because a wine comes off thin and muted doesn't mean that it's embryonic and on it's way to becoming a beautiful butterfly some day. It may just be thin and muted. The vast majority of wine produced and sold today is made to be consumed within 12 months. Granted there are regions where that rule generally doesn't apply (thinking red burgundy and barolo mostly), but it's assumed that if you're buying from those regions you know enough about the wines to know what you're getting into. There are exceptions of course, you could pop most 2009 burgs and give them a few hours of air and be fine, the same with many 2008 Baroli. But if you're talking "supermarket" red wines, wines that are in the $10-$30 range, the winemaking is geared towards drinkability. There are also producers who make wines that are meant to be cellared, but they are generally up-front about it and most people are aware. The first example I thought of was Ridge Montebello Cab. Not an early drinker, and most people know it. The Northern Rhone is another example. I opened a 2007 Jamet Cote Rotie last night and it was much better after a few hours. But that's Jamet. It will be even better in 10 years. hth Tempus Fugit fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 08:34
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Archer2338 posted:So after reading Poe again for the first time in years, I want to try Amontillado for curiosity's sake. However, I've only recently started getting interested in wine, and I have never had one, let alone any kind of sherry. Who cares what you start drinking? It doesn't really matter. I started drinking huge California cabs because I worked in an expensive steakhouse and they were easy to sell to the clientele. To answer your question, Hidalgo is a kickass producer of amontillado. If you want an easy drinking sherry, go for La Gitana. Enjoy!
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Mar 9, 2014 14:23
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that Vai sound posted:How do you know when a wine is still closed? Does the structure not show? Does the body seem too firm? When the cork is still in it!
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Mar 9, 2014 14:24
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Murgos posted:Cava, Cava, Cava. Did I say Cava? Oh, yeah, Prosecco too. A $30 bottle of Cava is going to be a better 'bubbly wine' than a $60 (or even higher priced) bottle from Champagne. This is silly. A rando bottle of $30 cava is going to be "better" than Billecart? No chance.
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Mar 9, 2014 14:25
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Kasumeat posted:Beaujolais is a good choice for red, although certainly a good Chianti or Barbera would be a great choice too considering the cuisine. You'll probably want to start with a white: pretty much anything high acid and not too sweet is excellent for food, from your Riesling (I assume by "sweet" you mean off-dry as opposed to dessert-sweet; if it's more than ~20g/L of sugar that's pushing it) to (most) wines from Pouilly-Fuisse, to sparkling, and so on. I eat an awful lot of rare steak w/ brussel sprouts cooked in butter these days - what would be your go-to recommendation for that in the under thirty range? I'm asking you specifically (though all replies are welcome) because we might be on similar wavelengths
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Mar 10, 2014 16:46
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No Wave posted:Kasumeat, this is late of me but I really liked your opinionated post on the last page and would love to hear more from you in general (as a wine newbie who constantly finds himself drifting towards Riesling and Syrah) I guess I don't have the wine vocabulary or PhD in winespeak like some here, but you can get some really great garnachas and riojas for cheap and they taste amazing with beef steaks. Something like Evodia (mild garnacha, appx $10), Atteca (stronger garnacha, appx $10-12), or Menguante Rioja (spicier rioja, also $10-12).
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Mar 10, 2014 18:37
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litany of gulps posted:I guess I don't have the wine vocabulary or PhD in winespeak like some here, but you can get some really great garnachas and riojas for cheap and they taste amazing with beef steaks. Something like Evodia (mild garnacha, appx $10), Atteca (stronger garnacha, appx $10-12), or Menguante Rioja (spicier rioja, also $10-12).
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Mar 11, 2014 14:21
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No Wave posted:Kasumeat, this is late of me but I really liked your opinionated post on the last page and would love to hear more from you in general (as a wine newbie who constantly finds himself drifting towards Riesling and Syrah) A lot of options here but personally I'd go with a mid-weight red with a bit of earthiness. Good Chianti Classico, Rosso di Montalcino (or Brunello if you're lucky enough to find one in your price range), richer Cru Beaojolais such as Morgon, almost any Pinot that isn't overripe and candied, Mencia, and so on. The Spanish wines suggested would work with a richer steak, but I'd caution you against overpowering something lean like a flat iron.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:30
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Kasumeat posted:A lot of options here but personally I'd go with a mid-weight red with a bit of earthiness. Good Chianti Classico, Rosso di Montalcino (or Brunello if you're lucky enough to find one in your price range), richer Cru Beaojolais such as Morgon, almost any Pinot that isn't overripe and candied, Mencia, and so on. The Spanish wines suggested would work with a richer steak, but I'd caution you against overpowering something lean like a flat iron. EDIT: Also VERY happy that Chateau Suduiraut 05 is going for $50 for 750ml on wine.com No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 16:15
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