Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

IDK If I've told this story before but I grew up in Northern Ontario where they've written songs about the flies. I've done a shitload of camping and hiking and stuff and I've always managed.

The first time my wife and I went hiking in Beaudry park just west of Winnipeg the mosquitoes were so bad we couldn't take it anymore, even with bug spray. After maybe 20 minutes we sprinted down the trail back to the parking lot so we could escape.

We were literally driven out of the woods by mosquitoes. loving Christ, man, they're terrible.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 05:06

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# ? May 10, 2024 15:55

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

The only redeeming quality of Winnipeg that I can think of: people there are really nice and down to earth. You know, the complete opposite of Vancouver.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 05:06

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Until they steal your car, since it *is* the car theft capital of Canada right?

Now back your regularly scheduled Canadian regionalism shitfest.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 05:21

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Throatwarbler posted:

Until they steal your car, since it *is* the car theft capital of Canada right?

Now back your regularly scheduled Canadian regionalism shitfest.

Good thing Victoria's got DANGER locked down

# ? Feb 22, 2014 05:28

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

I'm just glad I'm in what appears to be the only city in the country with a future.

The GTA is a white collar circle jerk that's about two strokes away from blowing its load and falling asleep for a decade or three.

Vancouver/Victoria is basically an underused pier next to a housing bubble ready to pop and gently caress everyone.

And the rest of the country is squeaking by until their EI runs out.

I don't want to even mention Alberta because that's a giant cluster gently caress house of cards that's going to ruin the rest of the country when it finally collapses (or when the groundwater contamination forces half of the province to be abandoned like Chernobyl).

SO ya, Winnipeg is a frozen poo poo hole full of poor on poor crime and general ugliness but it's a frozen poo poo hole with a lot going for it compared to the rest of the country.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 05:30

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

Does Winnipeg have a ginormous undercity like Chicago is alleged to on virtue of the city founders literally being the Swamp King from Monty Python?

# ? Feb 22, 2014 05:37

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Nah, anything below ground either floods, heaves (and then floods) or gets turned in to a shopping mall that closes at 5 (and has planters for sketchy looking people to poop in.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 05:42

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Do you guys remember the story of the girl whose parents were thrown in jail and she day bullied? Then tge the bullies killed her puppy and she went and hung herself with the dead puppy's leash? It happened right around 2008. IN loving WINNIPEG

# ? Feb 22, 2014 07:38

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Lexicon posted:

Yeah, agreed. I only make the claim because there has been talk in months past in this thread that the banks would blow up when the crash eventually comes.

Don't worry in the event of a crisis they have already set up a contingency plan; the tax payers will be safe!

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/04/04/jim_flahertys_cyprusstyle_bank_rescue_plan_walkom.html

# ? Feb 22, 2014 14:55

Squibbles: Aug 24, 2000; Mwaha ha HA ha!

EvilJoven posted:

IDK If I've told this story before but I grew up in Northern Ontario where they've written songs about the flies. I've done a shitload of camping and hiking and stuff and I've always managed.

The first time my wife and I went hiking in Beaudry park just west of Winnipeg the mosquitoes were so bad we couldn't take it anymore, even with bug spray. After maybe 20 minutes we sprinted down the trail back to the parking lot so we could escape.

We were literally driven out of the woods by mosquitoes. loving Christ, man, they're terrible.

https://www.nfb.ca/film/blackfly

# ? Feb 22, 2014 18:13

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

Rutibex posted:

Don't worry in the event of a crisis they have already set up a contingency plan; the tax payers will be safe!

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/04/04/jim_flahertys_cyprusstyle_bank_rescue_plan_walkom.html

~~Greece~~ Cyprus, I tell you. ~~Greece~~ Cyprus! :freep:

# ? Feb 22, 2014 18:18

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

Cultural Imperial posted:

Do you guys remember the story of the girl whose parents were thrown in jail and she day bullied? Then tge the bullies killed her puppy and she went and hung herself with the dead puppy's leash? It happened right around 2008. IN loving WINNIPEG

Do you have a source on this? I'd like to read about that in more detail.

# ? Feb 22, 2014 18:30

Antifreeze Head: Jun 6, 2005; It begins; Pillbug

Brannock posted:

Do you have a source on this? I'd like to read about that in more detail.

Kathleen Beardy

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/historic/31614569.html

# ? Feb 22, 2014 18:39

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-middle-class-mortgaging-its-future-with-debt-1.2548633

quote:

Canada's middle-class is mortgaging its future to stay afloat, making the Canadian dream "a myth more than a reality."

That's the blunt assessment of an internal Conservative government report, an unvarnished account of the plight of middle-income families that's in contrast to the rosier economic picture in this month's budget.

Middle-class votes sought for 1 big reason
Average family income in Tory budget 'make believe'
Middle-class retailers dying a slow death: Don Pittis
The document was prepared last October by experts in Employment and Social Development Canada, the department that runs the employment insurance fund and other income-support programs. The Canadian Press obtained the report under the Access to Information Act.

"The wages of middle income workers have stagnated," it says, referring to the period from 1993 to 2007. "Middle-income families are increasingly vulnerable to financial shocks."

'The market does not reward middle-income families so well. As a result, they get an increasingly smaller share of the earning's pie.'
- Internal Conservative government report
The document, drawing on three years of "internal research," was prepared for the department's deputy minister, Ian Shugart, shortly before the resumption of Parliament last fall.

"In Canada, political parties are making the middle class a central piece of their agendas," notes the presentation.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-middle-class-mortgaging-its-future-with-debt-1.2548633
A department spokesman, Jordan Sinclair, said in an email that the research "was not linked to the parliamentary schedule or topics raised within the House of Commons."

The authors say middle-income families have seen their earnings rise by an average of only 1.7 per cent a year over the 15 years ending 2007.

"The market does not reward middle-income families so well," says the report. "As a result, they get an increasingly smaller share of the earning's pie" compared with higher-income families.

Sharp cut in EI benefits noted

Shugart was also told middle-class workers "get lesser government support for their work transitions," referring to a sharp fall-off in employment-insurance benefits compared with other economic groups.

The analysis stops short of the 2008 global recession, though other analysts have noted the economic crisis wiped out many well-paid manufacturing jobs in central Canada that have supported middle-class prosperity.

The report also refers to debt, saying "many in the middle spend more than they earn, mortgaging their future to sustain their current consumption."

"Over the medium term, middle-income Canadians are unlikely to move to higher income brackets, i.e., the 'Canadian dream' is a myth more than a reality."

Current Conservative messaging emphasizes a million new jobs created since the recession; Canada's relative economic stability compared with other industrialized countries; and various tax cuts provided to "average" families since 2006.

'Over the medium term, middle-income Canadians are unlikely to move to higher income brackets, i.e., the 'Canadian dream' is a myth more than a reality.'
- Internal Conservative government report
Sinclair repeated those talking points when asked for comment on the report.

"Today, the Canadian economy is remarkably strong, setting the conditions for Canadians and their families to succeed and enjoy a high quality of life," he said. "Middle-income Canadians receive proportionately greater [tax] relief."

This month's budget acknowledged the need to create jobs and provide workplace training, but the budget documents never refer explicitly to the "middle class." The term "middle income" occurs just three times in the main budget, and once in a news release.

Since becoming Liberal leader in April last year, Justin Trudeau has frequently cited the plight of the middle class, a theme repeated at the party's weekend convention in Montreal.

Research from the Library of Parliament shows that since Jan. 1, 2013, Trudeau has used the phrase "middle class" 52 times in the House of Commons, compared with twice for Prime Minister Stephen Harper and nine times for NDP Leader Tom Mulcair. None of them used "middle income."

Toronto Liberal MP Chrystia Freeland commended the public servants who produced the report, saying that for the Liberals "it was like getting a good grade on your homework."

"This is a very strong, non-partisan, data-driven report, focused on Canada, which confirms our assertion, which is at the centre of our policy, that the middle class in Canada is being squeezed and that we have to do something about it," she said in an interview from Montreal. The public discourse has been lagging � we've been in denial."

Freeland, who won a November byelection and now is the party's trade critic, is author of the 2012 book Plutocrats, which argues that wealth distribution has favoured the ultra-rich and left everybody else behind.

# ? Feb 24, 2014 00:47

ComaPrison: Jan 1, 2014; by FactsAreUseless

Lexicon posted:

I hold the mutually contradictory viewpoint of not being all that keen on the general public's bullshit (rudeness and so on as you mention), but really enjoying cities and the hustle/bustle therein (and crucially, being anonymous within said hustle/bustle). Also, for me it is crucial to not have to drive every time you need a drat jug of milk or anything else. I suppose I just really buy into the whole 'urbanist aesthetic' thing that's in vogue these days.

I should probably just find a way to relocate to Manhattan.

This is coming from a Canadian who has lived in Manhattan for the past 4 years: Unless you make 6 figures and up, you likely can't afford to live here in the long run (raising a family, etc). And even then, prepare to enjoy your new shoe box-sized apartment. On the plus side, public transportation is awesome, and you'll never have to drive for groceries again in your life. You can sell your car and never have to think about car insurance, gas, or maintenance ever again. That will help a lot, since cost of living will require that you sell a kidney.

People who make less than 6 figures will tend to work in Manhattan and commute to/from their home in Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx/New Jersey/Long Island. Another possibility is to simply live in the traditionally dangerous/slummy/black/brown/yellow parts of Manhattan: Harlem, Washington Heights, Chinatown. The former two are becoming relatively safer due to gentrification, and the latter has always been generally safe.

ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Feb 24, 2014

# ? Feb 24, 2014 06:43

Saltin: Aug 20, 2003; Don't touch

EvilJoven posted:

I'm just glad I'm in what appears to be the only city in the country with a future.

The GTA is a white collar circle jerk that's about two strokes away from blowing its load and falling asleep for a decade or three.

Vancouver/Victoria is basically an underused pier next to a housing bubble ready to pop and gently caress everyone.

And the rest of the country is squeaking by until their EI runs out.

I don't want to even mention Alberta because that's a giant cluster gently caress house of cards that's going to ruin the rest of the country when it finally collapses (or when the groundwater contamination forces half of the province to be abandoned like Chernobyl).

SO ya, Winnipeg is a frozen poo poo hole full of poor on poor crime and general ugliness but it's a frozen poo poo hole with a lot going for it compared to the rest of the country.

If you think a city like Winnipeg has a future that is separate and distinct from Toronto, I have bad news for you. As Toronto goes, so goes the country. If and when poo poo goes upside down in Toronto, it will have an affect on the entire country, simply because so many Canadians live in and about the GTA. The banks in Toronto finance a great deal of the private sector activity in this country. Roughly one in six Canadian consumers live in the GTA. Money is made in Toronto. When the well dries up, everyone is going to get a little thirsty. Even in Winnipeg.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Feb 24, 2014

# ? Feb 24, 2014 16:57

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

That's true. When the poo poo hits the fan it's still definitely going to suck. What I'm getting at is that the pain is likely not going to be as bad or last as long out here as in the rest of the country.

Moving here was basically my way of making sure that the giant steel toed boot of the impending collapse connects with my rear end instead of letting it slam directly in to my balls.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 05:03

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

I once thought that the North Coast of BC would offer the same kind of security, but with an impending bitumen pipeline and the fact that they're already cutting ferry service, I am no longer thinking that is so wise.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 05:39

Pixelboy: Sep 13, 2005; Now, I know what you're thinking...

Rime posted:

I once thought that the North Coast of BC would offer the same kind of security, but with an impending bitumen pipeline and the fact that they're already cutting ferry service, I am no longer thinking that is so wise.

At least it will be harder for the roaming biker gangs to steal your fuel/gold/ammo after the apocalypse.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 07:49

Saltin: Aug 20, 2003; Don't touch

Pixelboy posted:

At least it will be harder for the roaming biker gangs to steal your fuel/gold/ammo after the apocalypse.

Fuel/Tinned Beans/Ammo. In the future apocalypse, gold is worthless.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 13:24

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Saltin posted:

Fuel/Tinned Beans/Ammo. In the future apocalypse, gold is worthless.

Not that I am the type to purchase gold, (I just thought the NC would be an interesting place sheltered from an economic bust), but I've never understood that logic. Gold has remained illogically valuable through the death of every civilization ever.

Surely thinking that we would be any less magpie-esque in the future is just a sort of exceptionalism fantasy.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 18:05

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

People who buy gold are silly. If you want protection from inflation, buy stocks. If you want to guard against the apocalypse scenario: tinned food and ammo.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 18:10

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Rime posted:

Not that I am the type to purchase gold, (I just thought the NC would be an interesting place sheltered from an economic bust), but I've never understood that logic. Gold has remained illogically valuable through the death of every civilization ever.

Surely thinking that we would be any less magpie-esque in the future is just a sort of exceptionalism fantasy.

Typically gold has value because most civilization deaths are not some anarchic collapse into the final death of mankind. In some of the messier collapses gold loses some short term worth and many people choose to part with gold in exchange for more security but since order inevitably returns gold goes right back up.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 18:16

Saltin: Aug 20, 2003; Don't touch

Rime posted:

Not that I am the type to purchase gold, (I just thought the NC would be an interesting place sheltered from an economic bust), but I've never understood that logic. Gold has remained illogically valuable through the death of every civilization ever.

Surely thinking that we would be any less magpie-esque in the future is just a sort of exceptionalism fantasy.

It was mostly a joke because hard core gold bugs like to talk about the coming collapse of society, on an order that has never happened in the entirety of human history (or pre-history, based on our insight), and that gold will become the currency of choice again. The truth is that in that situation the most important things are the security and necessities of life. It's silly to use as an analogy, but have you every heard anyone on the Walking Dead mention money or any equivalent ever? They are mostly concerned with security, food, shelter and medicine.

Gold would just weigh you down and make it easier for the zombies anyhow.

Long story short, you said "gold has remined illogically valuable" and that's the point. It has no more inherent value in a non-industrial world than paper money. I say non-industrial because it obviously has uses in electronics, etc. But in a dog eat dog apocalypse you would not trade a box of tinned beans for all the gold in the world.

Like I said, it was just a joke, mostly.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Feb 26, 2014

# ? Feb 26, 2014 01:03

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

That's awesome. The only way autistic nerds will ever understand economics is of you frame it with zombies

# ? Feb 26, 2014 01:28

Antifreeze Head: Jun 6, 2005; It begins; Pillbug

I only buy silver because if it's a werewolf apocalypse instead of zombies, I'm loving set.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 16:24

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

Antifreeze Head posted:

I only buy silver because if it's a werewolf apocalypse instead of zombies, I'm loving set.

This is why my bomb shelter is stocked entirely with Coors Light.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 16:51

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Lobok posted:

This is why my bomb shelter is stocked entirely with Coors Light.

I don't think anyone out east will get this

# ? Feb 26, 2014 17:28

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

This petty regionalism is absurd! We too got lovely commercials for lovely beer out here, it's not just a western Canada thing :colbert:

Plus, your shelves full of swill ensures no savage feathers'n'leathers raiders will bother with you.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 17:55

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

Cultural Imperial posted:

I don't think anyone out east will get this

Everyone knows the Silver Bullet!

# ? Feb 26, 2014 18:43

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

You should absolutely stockpile Coors in apocalypse prep. Once civilization collapses and there are no thermometers available, you'll be glad your beer is in temperature-indicating cans!

# ? Feb 26, 2014 18:46

Saltin: Aug 20, 2003; Don't touch

FrozenVent posted:

You should absolutely stockpile Coors in apocalypse prep. Once civilization collapses and there are no thermometers available, you'll be glad your beer is in temperature-indicating cans!

More importantly, if you ever run out of water, you have an acceptable stand in.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:14

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

quote:

Ben Rabidoux
@BenRabidoux
Hmmm....Hearing lots of chatter about a big CMHC announcement tomorrow.

11:19am � 26 Feb 14 � web

https://twitter.com/BenRabidoux/status/438755337114361856

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:23

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Consumer debt went up 7% in 2013, with Vancouver the highest in the nation.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:43

Clipperton: Dec 20, 2011; Grimey Drawer

Rime posted:

Consumer debt went up 7% in 2013, with Vancouver the highest in the nation.

Call me stupid, but how do they measure debt in these cases? Like, if I put $1000 worth of stuff on my credit card but I have $2000 in a bank account, does that still count as $1000 of 'consumer debt' for the purposes of that article?

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:46

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Clipperton posted:

Call me stupid, but how do they measure debt in these cases? Like, if I put $1000 worth of stuff on my credit card but I have $2000 in a bank account, does that still count as $1000 of 'consumer debt' for the purposes of that article?

Yes, because you're hold $1000 worth of debt regardless of your net worth? I mean, the average they use is $41,000 in Vancouver, it's unlikely that many people have $50,000 in savings on top of that debt (and if they do they need to go take some basic math classes :stonk:

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:58

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Rime posted:

Yes, because you're hold $1000 worth of debt regardless of your net worth? I mean, the average they use is $41,000 in Vancouver, it's unlikely that many people have $50,000 in savings on top of that debt (and if they do they need to go take some basic math classes ).

I'm assuming it's debt that's serviced, and not $1000 that you charge one month and pay off in full 3 days after the bill arrives.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 22:01

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Rime posted:

Yes, because you're hold $1000 worth of debt regardless of your net worth? I mean, the average they use is $41,000 in Vancouver, it's unlikely that many people have $50,000 in savings on top of that debt (and if they do they need to go take some basic math classes ).

Heh, there are car loans out there that have lower interest rates than saving accounts.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 22:02

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

quote:

Kristine Owram
@KristineOwram
CMHC is holding a conference call at 10am ET tomorrow. Rumours circulating that it could be a privatization announcement.

12:54pm � 26 Feb 14 � TweetDeck

https://twitter.com/KristineOwram/status/438779078296891392

# ? Feb 26, 2014 22:08

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# ? May 10, 2024 15:55

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Probably a refusal to insure new five percent down mortgages popping up as bond yields lower.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 22:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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