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SamuraiFoochs posted:Am I the only one who finds it stupid as gently caress with them talking about the way Manziel projects in the NFL (mostly w/r/t size and the fact that he runs a lot, less so mechanics I guess) considering Russell Wilson just won the loving Super Bowl? I'm not saying he'll BE Russ, I'm just saying they used to say the same poo poo about him too (from what I remember). Well Wilson's game in college wasn't that similar to Manziel's. Wisconsin had a massive o-line that crushed it in the running game and afforded him a ton of pocket time. It was one of the reasons why he looked like such a good prospect despite his size. Manziel's offensive line is built to shuttle off players and create passing and running lanes for Manziel, so he understandably took advantage of that. The size thing is coming from Manziel's penchant to not avoid tacklers. He tries to run by players instead of sliding to protect himself, which will get him murdered at the next level.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:20
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Chichevache posted:Russell Wilson is overly conservative and all about making smart decisions. He's pretty much the antithesis of Johnny Football. I've seen Russell Wilson avoid the rush by running 20 yards backwards multiple times. It works out a lot because apparently he's the most difficult person to tackle on the planet, but those are still bad decisions.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:26
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Toymachine posted:Have you seen them play? Wilson knows when to slide or head for the sideline when chased by a linebacker. Manziel will try to truck him. Yeah, when it comes to hits, Manziel plays like Tebow but in Wilson's body.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:27
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I've seen Russell Wilson avoid the rush by running 20 yards backwards multiple times. It works out a lot because apparently he's the most difficult person to tackle on the planet, but those are still bad decisions. He likes doing that on rollouts and waggles. He always has his eyes down the field and is ready to get rid of the ball by throwing it away if poo poo turns sour.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:30
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I've seen Russell Wilson avoid the rush by running 20 yards backwards multiple times. It works out a lot because apparently he's the most difficult person to tackle on the planet, but those are still bad decisions. Yes and sometimes Manning and Brady do dumb poo poo as well. What I meant, and didn't think I needed to spell out so precisely, is that Wilson specifically avoids throwing into double coverage, taking big hits, and emphasizes keeping the ball safe. He'd much rather go for the sure pass 5 yards down field then to go for the Hail Mary BIG PLAY that Manziel is renowned for. Not that Manziel always goes for Hail Marys, but that he is recognized for a flashy playing style that is inherently risky. I'm not sure why you're making a point to stress that Wilson is fallible, every player is.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:35
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I guess all I mean is a lot of the Manziel criticism comes out as HE'S SMALL AND RUNS TOO MUCH which is the dumb part. Yes I have seen them both play, I saw Wilson in college even. My point is if they actually said things like "He tries to take too many risks with his body", etc. I would totally get it. But all it ever comes out as is "not a traditional quarterback, harumph harumph" which is silly and not effective analysis at all. Then again, I'm probably expecting far too much out of sports media.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:56
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He also throws ducks under pressure that Mike Evans comes down with because he's Mike Evans, so there's that too
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Feb 26, 2014 23:25
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TG-Chrono posted:Not to mention the Bills traded back with the Rams and got an extra pick they used to get Kiko Alonso. Well thank God they managed to get at least one player that will be on the team in 3 years through that deal.
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Feb 27, 2014 00:13
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Doltos posted:Well Wilson's game in college wasn't that similar to Manziel's. Wisconsin had a massive o-line that crushed it in the running game and afforded him a ton of pocket time. It was one of the reasons why he looked like such a good prospect despite his size. Manziel's offensive line is built to shuttle off players and create passing and running lanes for Manziel, so he understandably took advantage of that. It's a very A&M thing and it's killed all of our QBs. I think, memory serving correctly, that only Tannehill actually tried to work at sliding when he was QB and not WR.
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Feb 27, 2014 00:35
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Quest For Glory II posted:Welcome to the Browns zone Tony Grossi @TonyGrossi 4h "@RapSheet @dinocleveland @MoveTheSticks believes the #Browns guy is Fresno State’s Derek Carr for later in the 1st round // #noise.
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Feb 27, 2014 00:45
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I hope whoever Manziel's agent is has a huge endorsement contract for him to sign with Dorito's the moment he isn't drafted 1st overall.
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Feb 27, 2014 01:38
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PrinceRandom posted:It's a very A&M thing and it's killed all of our QBs. I think, memory serving correctly, that only Tannehill actually tried to work at sliding when he was QB and not WR. Also Derek Carr would be the most Browns QB pick ever
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Feb 27, 2014 01:47
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I don't buy it. This is the time of smoke and mirrors, I'd wager we'll see a totally different reason to "LOL Browns" than Derek Carr. That or Bridgewater falls to them and they dominate the AFC North for a few years.
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Feb 27, 2014 02:05
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For those mentioning the Vikings looking for a WR early in the draft, there's no way that happens. The whole off-season so far, and especially the past week, the staff has been really upfront about the dire need to draft a QB -- probably early on. I don't know if they'll look to bring Cassel back, so they'll probably need to pick up a veteran in free agency on top of using one of their first three picks on either (1) a project like Murray or (2) finding a way to get Bridgewater, Bortles, or Manziel in the first round. Realistically, though, unless they trade up for one of the top three, or one of them falls for some reason, they'll take the best defensive player available and/or trade down. This is in spite of the serious, basically top-priority need to have a quarterback who has the ability to stretch the field and do so accurately. Also keep in mind that they have a really outstanding WR corps with Jennings, Patterson, and Wright alone, plus Simpson if they bring him back (and if he's not suspended again right away for last year's DUI) and Webb if they figure out how to not waste him. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they didn't draft a WR at all -- they had a few intriguing WRs on the practice squad last year, too.
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Feb 27, 2014 02:44
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Quest For Glory II posted:Welcome to the Browns zone Clowney with the first, Carr with the second. THE BROWNS CLOWN CARR COMMENCES! The circus continues at the stadium, the factory of sadness produces, doot doot doo dooloo doot doot doo! I'm in for Clowney, Evans, Murray, Sankey.
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Feb 27, 2014 03:39
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Bigass Moth posted:Tony Grossi @TonyGrossi 4h I think teams would be fine with that. 26 is too high for him, especially in this draft. QBs rise and all that poo poo, but there should still be amazing players available at 26. e: essentially he should be there even if teams know this. whose going to give up draft picks to move back into the first for him and blueball the browns? Waroduce fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 03:40
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Any team that needs a franchise QB.
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Feb 27, 2014 04:08
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Doctor Candiru posted:For those mentioning the Vikings looking for a WR early in the draft, there's no way that happens. WR isn't a pressing need for the Vikings. They have a good veteran in Jennings, a potential star in Patterson, and Wright has developed into a nice 3rd or 4th receiver. They also have a good receiving TE in Rudolph if he can stay healthy. That being said, Watkins is a special talent and if the draft plays out where Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, Clowney, and Mack are all off of the board, then I think that Watkins is a good enough prospect that it is worth considering him over the 2nd tier of defensive prospects (e.g. Barr, Mosley, Ealy, Gilbert, Clinton-Dix, Jernigan, and Donald). As for QB, I hope that they retain Cassel for the short term and I'm not sure who they should take in the draft. I imagine that Turner will want a strong armed passer and they may be willing to take some time with someone like Murray or Mettenberger, but I could also see them trading back into the 1st for Carr. I'd be very happy with Bridgewater or Bortles, but a lot of things would need to go right for one of them to slide to 8. I know that QB is a dire need, but forcing a pick due to desperate need is what got us stuck with Ponder, so I'm alright with waiting up to the 3rd or 4th round to grab a QB. Honestly, I think they may take a guy in the 3rd or 4th round, see if they like him and if not, then look for another young QB next year.
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Feb 27, 2014 04:39
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The Walter Football mock has Oakland trading their second round pick to the Rams to grab Johnny Manziel. I know WF is poo poo but I fall for their trolling so hard
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Feb 27, 2014 05:03
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They have the Ravens drafting Mosley at 17, which would literally make me vomit blood.
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Feb 27, 2014 05:12
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The Puppy Bowl posted:They have the Ravens drafting Mosley at 17, which would literally make me vomit blood. Lance Zierlein just posted a mock with Houston taking Bortles first overall and his reasoning was "Well this is what I think the front office is thinking right now" and as I immediately closed the page I could feel fluid leaking out of my ears. 
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Feb 27, 2014 05:42
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New Division posted:Well thank God they managed to get at least one player that will be on the team in 3 years through that deal. I mean, he wasn't a world-beater, but no one from that draft was projected to be the kind of guy who could hit the ground running. We didn't even plan for E.J. to be the opening-day starter, but Kevin Kolb's brain is even less durable than his knees. Not to mention the rest of the offense was hobbled as well. On-topic, it'd be great if the Bills landed Sammy Watkins, but the idea that Stevie isn't going to be around long is kind of ridiculous. Then again, Walter Football and the Rams bilking yet another R team with the #2 pick.
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Feb 27, 2014 05:46
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Blitz7x posted:The Walter Football mock has Oakland trading their second round pick to the Rams to grab Johnny Manziel. I know WF is poo poo but I fall for their trolling so hard No way McKenzie goes after Manziel. I know his code. He said JFF was a "playmaker," not to be confused with the "difference maker" we'll get in the first.
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Feb 27, 2014 07:22
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:
I agree with you completely on EJ, his Jags injury was more awkward landing, flexing than a direct hit but the point still stands. The Bills are in a really good spot. They could have Watkins fall to them at 9 and it'd be a steal. But they could go Mike Evans for a redzone threat, Ebron for a good Chandler replacement / Moeaki insurance or they could go one of the best Tackles on the board. Then they could back it up in round 2 with a decent ILB or OT. Pretty excited to see who drops to us.
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Feb 27, 2014 07:32
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Volkerball posted:No way McKenzie goes after Manziel. I know his code. He said JFF was a "playmaker," not to be confused with the "difference maker" we'll get in the first. He added that Manziel is a "baller" but perhaps not a "shot-caller" at this point in his career.
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Feb 27, 2014 07:50
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Volkerball posted:No way McKenzie goes after Manziel. I know his code. He said JFF was a "playmaker," not to be confused with the "difference maker" we'll get in the first. New to the thread and a fellow Raider fan. Is Bridgewater the targetted guy? McKenzie's QB decisions have been a bit suspect so far.
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Feb 27, 2014 09:10
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warcrimes posted:New to the thread and a fellow Raider fan. Is Bridgewater the targetted guy? McKenzie's QB decisions have been a bit suspect so far. McKenzie's been wading through the poo poo marsh that is Late Era Al Davis. Lots of money tied up in bad contracts and no draft picks to work with. Pretty much the only situation where "eh, gently caress it, Matt McGloin" is a reasonable choice. Trading for Matt Flynn and wasting a 4th on a QB you cut before the season starts was kinda dumb though.
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Feb 27, 2014 09:22
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warcrimes posted:New to the thread and a fellow Raider fan. Is Bridgewater the targetted guy? McKenzie's QB decisions have been a bit suspect so far. The past two seasons have been about purging the roster and finding something in the trash heap.He kept Pryor and seems to have paid off for a few weeks,he signed McGloin and drafted Wilson .QB is one of the most if not the most difficult position to acquire talent , so I can forgive some degree of suspectness .
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Feb 27, 2014 09:28
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shiksa posted:McKenzie's been wading through the poo poo marsh that is Late Era Al Davis. Lots of money tied up in bad contracts and no draft picks to work with. Pretty much the only situation where "eh, gently caress it, Matt McGloin" is a reasonable choice. Look, I'll buy the Davis Fallout stuff for the salary cap issues and past poo poo draft choices, but Matt Flynn and Tyler Wilson were two of the worst moves I've ever seen. e: to clarify, I'm asking the Raider draftgoons here what they're really hoping for in this draft, I've been woefully lacking in draft knowledge for years. warcrimes fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 09:31
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warcrimes posted:New to the thread and a fellow Raider fan. Is Bridgewater the targetted guy? McKenzie's QB decisions have been a bit suspect so far. Bridgewater is not going to fall to the Raiders He'll probably either be a Texan, Jaguar, or whoever trades up to St Louis's pick
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Feb 27, 2014 09:42
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warcrimes posted:New to the thread and a fellow Raider fan. Is Bridgewater the targetted guy? McKenzie's QB decisions have been a bit suspect so far. Ah, a fellow masochist. Frankly, I doubt McKenzie even has a targeted guy yet. Free agency is going to have to absolutely redefine the team unless they're going to try their hand at some cap floor trickery, and there's so many variables involved in that. Could be Bridgewater, but if they sign Josh Freeman and Pryor is still on the roster and there's still been no talk about him moving to receiver, I doubt they go QB in the first. The same can be said for a guy like Watkins if the Raiders sign Decker, or Clowney if they resign Houston and sign Hardy or some other solid end. It's just too early to have any idea what the teams needs will be in May. All I really feel comfortable in saying is that McKenzie probably has Clowney and Manziel a little lower on his board than anyone else, because their character isn't in line with the types of players McKenzie has aimed for over the years. He's also not afraid to go against draftnik narratives if Hayden is any indication, so it's quite possible there's someone projected lower on everyone else's board that McKenzie has at the top of his. As far as QB goes, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on Flynn. He didn't overpay, and Flynn went back to GB and played solid again once his tendonitis issues went away and had an offense that had, like, players. Injury and the Raiders abysmal guard play played more of a role in Flynn being terrible than anything. Still, his ceiling wasn't very high, and McKenzie cut him right away because he was taking up a perfectly good UDFA's roster spot, so I'll give him credit on cutting his losses. Sure, Wilson was a 4th round pick thrown away and set on fire, but at the same time, you can't overstate how impressive it is to find an undrafted rookie free agent, toss him in to start games at QB, and have him be serviceable. That is not a thing that happens. A UDFA QB just making a roster is impressive. So he's had his ups and downs. We'll see what they do to address the position. Wouldn't be surprised to see McGloin and Pryor playing quite a bit next year tho. Edit: I think I want Mack right now.
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Feb 27, 2014 10:27
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warcrimes posted:Look, I'll buy the Davis Fallout stuff for the salary cap issues and past poo poo draft choices, but Matt Flynn and Tyler Wilson were two of the worst moves I've ever seen. Worst case scenario is trading up to grab a player. Second worst is Bortles/Manziel imo. I really don't want to deal with the Clowney Hype, so I'm really hoping to grab Bridgewater/Watkins/Mack
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Feb 27, 2014 15:33
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I've been kicking around the idea of making a thread where we look back at mock drafts from like, 2011 and fully realize the futility of the mock draft. Are there any guys in particular y'all want me to look at?
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Feb 27, 2014 16:00
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The problem with mock drafts is that they are all poo poo until like two days before the draft, and then they all go completely out the window as soon as one person makes a reach or passes on a clearly superior talent. Basically, they're fun, but it's more fun to make fun of the analysts putting them together as soon as day one starts.
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Feb 27, 2014 16:03
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No Butt Stuff posted:The problem with mock drafts is that they are all poo poo until like two days before the draft, and then they all go completely out the window as soon as one person makes a reach or passes on a clearly superior talent. Pretty sure most good analysts don't like doing it. It's just that they do goddamn crazy traffic so the site/publication pretty much tells them I want a new mock draft from you ever 2-3 weeks until the draft.
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Feb 27, 2014 16:09
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Except Mel Kiper. Mel Kiper is... he's the embodiment of something.
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Feb 27, 2014 16:11
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Dexo posted:Pretty sure most good analysts don't like doing it. It's just that they do goddamn crazy traffic so the site/publication pretty much tells them I want a new mock draft from you ever 2-3 weeks until the draft. Yep. At the end of the day almost every draft analyst is a click baiter. You'll see some stupid headline like MCSHAY TAKES SAMMY WATKINS FIRST OVERALL, click on it, see some dumb explanation for it that I don't think the evaluator truly believes, and that click gives the site owner 6 cents. Mock drafts are stupid and incredibly worthless.
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Feb 27, 2014 16:12
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Doltos posted:Yep. At the end of the day almost every draft analyst is a click baiter. You'll see some stupid headline like MCSHAY TAKES SAMMY WATKINS FIRST OVERALL, click on it, see some dumb explanation for it that I don't think the evaluator truly believes, and that click gives the site owner 6 cents. I'm getting an idea...
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Feb 27, 2014 16:13
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wrong thread
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Feb 27, 2014 16:17
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No Butt Stuff posted:I'm getting an idea... Well that website darkforce made for the draft podcasts I want to do (seriously, they blow with just one person, I need someone to talk football with on one of em) could also be used as a click-baiting draft site. I can throw any mock up there and make it dumb enough that a million draft fans will click on it to share with their friends about how dumb it is.
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Feb 27, 2014 16:17
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