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Zip!
Aug 14, 2008

Keep on pushing
little buddy

quote:

Questions and discussion about building explosive power vs stability

Generally speaking when you boil a specific exercise like a squat or a box jump down in to what you're actually doing you can see how it will translate on to the ice.

For example a standard bar bell squat if you think about it is just you pushing through a range of motion in a balanced, controlled manner. The outcome of this on the ice is the same; its going to improve your balance and control and your ability to resist contact - it probably won't make you much of a quicker skater.

Compare this against an explosive exercise like a box jump or lateral hop. Think about what it is you're doing. You're exploding, using maximum force to drive yourself in a given direction. Translate this on to the ice - you're sprinting for a loose puck in the corner, you're driving with your legs as hard as possible.

I think on the whole it is important to have an aspect of both in your off ice training so that you're able to build yourself a solid base and then develop the power to make the most of it. It certainly shouldn't be one or the other. Typically speaking my workouts are about 60/40 or 70/30 stability to explosive ratio and that has been serving me very well.

Below is what Zetterberg does. You can see why it is a good example of a balance between stability and power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evIYUTDO7Z4

Zip! fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Feb 24, 2014

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xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

That said, if you haven't been doing much strength training, even bog standard squats and deadlifts will translate into immediate improvements on the ice. I guess it depends on what "a while ago" translates into. Way I see it there's basically two levels.. the strength baseline which is just standard muscle building to get you into a condition where you're capable of the other stuff, which is that Zetterberg type of workout.

The problem with a lot of the hockey workouts you find online is they're built for people (well, kids) who are already in pretty drat good condition. If you're a desk jockey like me trying to get their carcass to move around, a lot of that stuff is difficult enough that you get diminished benefit out of it.

Zip!
Aug 14, 2008

Keep on pushing
little buddy

Here is what I feel is a really good base strength program. For your first time through I'd recommend extending it out to 10 weeks. I cycle between this and a more dynamic/plyometric based workout every 4-6 weeks.

code:
Legs (twice a week) ~90 mins workout
-	Start all exercises with double reps at 30%
-	Aim to increase weight every third session, but stagger increases so you don’t increase all exercises on same day
-	Weeks 1-3 all exercises performed as steady-paced lifts.  Notes apply to weeks 4-7 only.
-	If there are more than 6 reps, the last three should be hard.  If fewer than 6 reps last 1-2 should be very hard.  
-	From week 3 onwards if you feel you could have done two more reps then the weight is too light.


Exercise		Wks 1-3		Wks 4-7		Notes
Cycle			10 mins		10 mins		Slowly build up intensity from 50-90%
Squats			3x12		5x5		Lower carefully.  Steady paced lift.
Deadlifts		3x10		4x8		Take strain before lift.  Steady pace. Use small discs.
Straight leg deadlift	3x10		4x6		Lower slowly, pause, stand up briskly.
Adductor machine	3x12		3x8+8		8 lifts at max weight, followed immediately by 8 at two-thirds weight.
Abductor machine	3x12		3x8+8		8 lifts at max weight, followed immediately by 8 at two-thirds weight.
Calf raise		3x15		3x10		Lower slowly, stand up briskly.
Single leg press	2x8		3x5		Always lower until knee is virtually on chest.
Hamstring curls		3x10		3x8		Curl explosively.
Run-cool down		10 mins		10 mins		Start at 85% and reduce to 50%.
Stretch							This should take 10-15 mins.

Upper Body (twice per week) ~90 mins workout.
-	Start all exercises with double reps at 30%
-	Aim to increase weight every third session, but stagger increases so you don’t increase all exercises on same day
-	If there are more than 6 reps, the last three should be hard.  If fewer than 6 reps last 1-2 should be very hard.  
-	From week 3 onwards if you feel you could have done two more reps then the weight is too light.


Exercise		Wks 1-3		Wks 4-7		Notes
Row			5 mins		5 mins	
Bench Press		3x10		4x6		Maintain good from.  Touch chest gently.
Overhand pull ups	3x to failure	3x to failure	Grip wider than shoulders.  Use assist if necessary.
Dumbbell shoulder press	3x10		3x7		Wks4-7=push up explosively
Shoulder shrug		2x12		3x8		Steady up & down.  Keep shoulders back.
Core Cable twists	2x12		3x10		Don’t twist hips.
Rotator cuffs		2x12+12		3x10+10		Do external & internal.  External at lighter weight.
EZ bar curl		2x10		--	
Alternate dumbbell curl	--		2x7 per arm	
Tricep dips		2x15		2x20		Superset with dips.
Accordion crunch	3x15		3x20		Full range of movement.
Ball Back raise		3x15		--		Superset with back raises.
Incline back raise	--		3x15		Superset with back raises.
Side crunch		2x15		2x20		Lift as high as you can.
Woodcutters		--		2x10	
Leg raises		--		2x10		Use a Roman Chair, Dip bars or hanging.
Side slides		--		2x15		Use one light dumbbell only.
Ball crunch		3x20		3x12		Wks1-3=Double legged; Wks4-7+single legged
Bicycles		3x30		3x60		Add 10 reps each week in both phases
Cross train		5 mins		5 mins	
Stretch			


AAB
Nov 5, 2010

holy poo poo Zip! I've been waiting for a while for someone to post something like that so I stop making GBS threads around like a moron at the gym.

In more hockey playing news: I am finding renewed fun in playing defense and skating backwards faster than some of the people in the league can skate forwards. Also love hearing from teammates "you know you jumped up a little more than you should have right? I know you made up for it by getting back fast but..." :lol:

Pinky Artichoke
Apr 10, 2011

Dinner has blossomed.

xzzy posted:

That said, if you haven't been doing much strength training, even bog standard squats and deadlifts will translate into immediate improvements on the ice. I guess it depends on what "a while ago" translates into. Way I see it there's basically two levels.. the strength baseline which is just standard muscle building to get you into a condition where you're capable of the other stuff, which is that Zetterberg type of workout.

The problem with a lot of the hockey workouts you find online is they're built for people (well, kids) who are already in pretty drat good condition. If you're a desk jockey like me trying to get their carcass to move around, a lot of that stuff is difficult enough that you get diminished benefit out of it.

Years ago someone gave me the Athlete Construction CD, and really all the individual movements were accessible to de-conditioned old farts. The main problem is that the program as written takes a *ton* of time and space, and it's a lot harder for us as working adults to find that. Incorporating the various ball passes (like Zetterberg does in that video, you can also do passes to the front and to overhead), inch worms (kind of the no-equipment equivalent to those TRX jackknives Zetterberg does, good for abs and shoulders), kneeling sprint starts, side and back lunges, unweighted squat jumps or box jumps, etc. piecemeal into a metcon is certainly doable, though.

Acethomas
Sep 21, 2004

NHL 1451 684 773 1457
Sellouts if you're around I think Nit and I are going to hit up s/p again today. Practice bench sitting again.

Doctor Butts
May 21, 2002

xzzy posted:

Of course I'm officially the slowest and weakest skater on the ice again. I've been slowly creeping my way up the skill ladder in the instructional league and this took me down several pegs. I really gotta get faster strides and better on my edges.

Outside edges are a bitch and I'm still trying to use them. I tried putting more weight on the outside edge on tight turns but I'm poo poo at it.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Same here, I'm getting incrementally better at it to the point I'm actually doing crossovers in games now, but it's still not great. Putting weight on that edge fires off all kinds of "you gonna fall down you idiot!" warnings in my brain and it takes conscious effort to get myself to do it.

It's just a question of reps at this point, I know how to do it, I just gotta get the muscle memory ingrained.

Pinky Artichoke
Apr 10, 2011

Dinner has blossomed.

xzzy posted:

Same here, I'm getting incrementally better at it to the point I'm actually doing crossovers in games now, but it's still not great. Putting weight on that edge fires off all kinds of "you gonna fall down you idiot!" warnings in my brain and it takes conscious effort to get myself to do it.

It's just a question of reps at this point, I know how to do it, I just gotta get the muscle memory ingrained.

I am the queen of the no-outside-edge stand-up crossover until I actually need to move quickly in a game situation. Then I have the split second of "whoa my feet are over there" and almost blow a tire.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Also being timely, US Hockey just spammed this article about core strength:

http://adulthockey.usahockey.com/news_article/show/351904?referrer_id=705816

Maria Mountain is a pretty smart lady, she keeps a blog at hockeytrainingpro.com that gives out a lot of interesting information.

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

Acethomas posted:

Sellouts if you're around I think Nit and I are going to hit up s/p again today. Practice bench sitting again.

I can't make it down there in time when I'm working unfortunately :(

However there's a beginners pickup being organized on Tuesday nights at Torrance. It's private but all people who are just in learn to skate or copper level leagues. I went last week with a friend. It's pretty boring honestly but I only had 1 game scheduled in February so I was hurting for ice time. I'll loop you into it if they do it this week.

Doctor Butts
May 21, 2002

I think I definitely need more flexibility to do the crossovers, anyone have a good idea how to stretch the hips/legs so I can bring them further over?

Acethomas
Sep 21, 2004

NHL 1451 684 773 1457

sellouts posted:

I can't make it down there in time when I'm working unfortunately :(

However there's a beginners pickup being organized on Tuesday nights at Torrance. It's private but all people who are just in learn to skate or copper level leagues. I went last week with a friend. It's pretty boring honestly but I only had 1 game scheduled in February so I was hurting for ice time. I'll loop you into it if they do it this week.

I'd love to go on the nights my league isn't Tuesday (We're a T/Th league at Lakewood). I'm sure Nit would be interested in getting into it though. What time was it at?

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

10:45 because of LMU, now that they're out of the playoffs they'll likely get the 9:40 slot, so not too bad.

AAB
Nov 5, 2010

Doctor Butts posted:

I think I definitely need more flexibility to do the crossovers, anyone have a good idea how to stretch the hips/legs so I can bring them further over?

Practice at a public skate with your shinguards on. Over step them so that you get a more solid feel for the idea. It will feel really goofy but it helps. Even if you have to do it holding on to the boards. When I was learning, I started standing at the copier/printer at work with my legs/feet crossed on the outside edges of my shoes. It feels and looks kinda silly but it helps with some of the feel I guess.

Pinky Artichoke
Apr 10, 2011

Dinner has blossomed.

Doctor Butts posted:

I think I definitely need more flexibility to do the crossovers, anyone have a good idea how to stretch the hips/legs so I can bring them further over?

Do you bend your knees? That helps quite a bit in making room for the leg to get over.

Bradf0rd
Jun 16, 2008

Agent of Chaos

Bootcha posted:

While I hope Bradf0rd makes it to B1, I also kinda hope we get together on the old alcoholic team.

I'm still in B2 for Spring but won't know who with until tonight's draft before our semi-final game. The draft drama has already begun and I'm just laughing at it all.

NoArmedMan
Apr 1, 2003

Zip! posted:

Here is what I feel is a really good base strength program. For your first time through I'd recommend extending it out to 10 weeks. I cycle between this and a more dynamic/plyometric based workout every 4-6 weeks.


Thanks for this, I've been looking for a new workout plan that would compliment hockey better and now I can be lazy about looking for it and just actually do it.

In my own hockey news, I've been playing for a few months now after never skating - hockey culture is tiny here in Australia. I'm heading to LA/Montreal/SF and possibly NYC soon and a friend of a friend is bringing me to Montreal vs Detroit while I'm in Montreal. He's also arranging a game with him and his friends at a rink. An Australian with 4 months of skating vs a heap of french Canadians? I'm going to die.

waffle enthusiast
Nov 16, 2007



At 7pm I tried to sign up for the noon skate tomorrow. It was full…again :negative:

shyduck
Oct 3, 2003


Where do you live that a Tuesday skate at noon is full?

waffle enthusiast
Nov 16, 2007



Denver/Boulder.

This town is full up.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Dangerllama posted:

Denver/Boulder.

This town is full up.

Too loving bad because as I said earlier, Denver region is #1 on mine and my wife's destinations when we leave Chicago in a couple years.

waffle enthusiast
Nov 16, 2007



You're coming from the midwest and not either coast so I mean, you can move here if you want to.

You don't ski, do you? If you ski, we're full. I hear Salt Lake is super awesome though.

e: Sorry. I'm grumpy today. I grew up here and now we have full drop-ins and 2-hour+ delays on I-70 coming down from the hills. But honestly you seem like a chill dude. You can come.

waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Feb 25, 2014

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Dangerllama posted:

You're coming from the midwest and not either coast so I mean, you can move here if you want to.

You don't ski, do you? If you ski, we're full. I hear Salt Lake is super awesome though.

Used to, haven't touched skis since I left Alaska.

I just want mountains and snow and an ice rink, and Denver is the best option for that where there's jobs available for me and the woman.

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

Dangerllama posted:

At 7pm I tried to sign up for the noon skate tomorrow. It was full…again :negative:

Our nooner fills up at 23hrs before and it's pretty loving high level. It's the hardest public skate to get into.

NoArmedMan posted:

Thanks for this, I've been looking for a new workout plan that would compliment hockey better and now I can be lazy about looking for it and just actually do it.

In my own hockey news, I've been playing for a few months now after never skating - hockey culture is tiny here in Australia. I'm heading to LA/Montreal/SF and possibly NYC soon and a friend of a friend is bringing me to Montreal vs Detroit while I'm in Montreal.

If you're going to schlep gear out to LA I can probably get you a skate out here as well if you want.

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

Also any tournaments or good skates happening in NorCal either Easter weekend or the last weekend in April?

I've got a freedom run those weekends, need to get up there to see my buddy's new baby, and am down for a weekend of hockey.

Bradf0rd
Jun 16, 2008

Agent of Chaos

Dangerllama posted:

At 7pm I tried to sign up for the noon skate tomorrow. It was full…again :negative:
Which rink?

waffle enthusiast
Nov 16, 2007



Boulder Valley. It's always a good skate.

Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007

I had a guy take a 2-handed baseball swing at me last night. Too bad it was on my shins and I didn't even feel it. Good times.

In good news, we won 3-1 and grabbed the #1 seed for the playoffs next week. Ended up with a 20-2-2 record.

Henrik Zetterberg fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Feb 25, 2014

Hockles
Dec 25, 2007

Resident of Camp Blood
Crystal Lake

Another secret code for HockeyMonkey. This time, 25% off Easton Clearance skates or stick.

Let me know if you want it.

waffle enthusiast
Nov 16, 2007



Henrik Zetterberg posted:

I had a guy take a 2-handed baseball swing at me last night. Too bad it was on my shins and I didn't even feel it. Good times.

Was it Phil Kessel?

waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Feb 27, 2014

VendaGoat
Nov 1, 2005
Tomorrow night, hockey is back in Pittsburgh! :circlefap:
Why is it that the Olympics seem to take so long?

Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007


He was fat so anything is possible!

the last signal...
Apr 16, 2009
Last month, 17 games into a 25 game season, our team got bumped up to the next div. Our record for the div we were in was a 15-1-1 including a couple forfeit games we won. Thing is, we weren't winning with blow outs, the games were all hard fought and close. They were fun and I felt that despite our strong record, we were a good fit for the div. I voice my concerns to the director about how we're a slow team and I'm not sure we can handle even one div higher, and this late in the season there might not be time to bump us back down. He reassures me that we'll be moved back down if things don't work out. Sure enough, we get blown out every game in the new div. After each game, the director tells "oh that will be your last game in this div, we're moving you back down." 5 games manage to pass by with nothing done and now the decision has been made that we're staying in this div because "it wouldn't be fair to the other teams to move you back down". Meanwhile, none our games in the first div count anymore and our current record in the new div is abysmal so we're going to miss the playoffs.

hurray for terribly run leagues

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

that sucks but it's just beer league playoffs

Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007

That's really lovely. Moving teams should be done mid-season.

the last signal...
Apr 16, 2009

sellouts posted:

that sucks but it's just beer league playoffs

Hey that's good ice time! (best of 3 format for series)

Honestly it seems kinda silly to me that some teams don't get the extra playoff games when everyone's paying the same amount. Luckily there are a few options for leagues in the city I live in so we'll have to shop around a bit more next season.

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

I like relegation mid-season. There's nothing worse than playing a team for 20% of your season that won't even get a shot on goal or vice versa. But I do think it should happen before 18 games into the season if it's happening at all.

Also I bet you're not getting moved back down because the other teams bitched about you going 15-1-1. It's easy to say they feel fun when you're winning 15-1-1 and you all know how whiny other teams can be.

Chemmy
Feb 4, 2001

If you win like 90% of your games you should move up.

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bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe
Last sunday we played a team that just got moved into our division after winning 6 straight games with a combined score of like 40-2 or something. We beat them 10-3. They were not happy.

edit - at the end of the 1st we were losing 3-1. We were not happy.

bewbies fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Feb 28, 2014

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