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Literally The Worst posted:It's a real poo poo argument that I can't even figure out how to respond to. Cards with small print runs that are on the reserve list are real expensive, yes, but what does this have to do with reprints as they pertain to modern and when you're talking about modern reprints how the gently caress are Goyf and Bob medium money? Cards being expensive and the idea of reprints aren't problems that are restricted to modern. In a world where Tabernacle is a magic card that costs $500+ and there are cards that easil cost more, a $160 goyf can be medium money to people who buy and sell.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:35
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Anyone have a link to the monoB list that was running Agents/Nighthowlers/Heralds kicking around?
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Feb 28, 2014 06:36
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:Cards being expensive and the idea of reprints aren't problems that are restricted to modern. In a world where Tabernacle is a magic card that costs $500+ and there are cards that easil cost more, a $160 goyf can be medium money to people who buy and sell. And Tabernacle is on the reserve list so bringing it up in a discussion about reprinting cards is real dumb because it's a thing they literally can't/won't reprint. If you want to argue about whether or not the reserve list is actually a good thing, that's fine, but acting like the price of Tabernacle is a consideration for most people is loving dumb, especially in a conversation that was discussing the prices of Modern singles. I mean let's take this poo poo to its logical conclusion: Tabernacle is medium money in a world where Alpha Lotus exists.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:38
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Price of constructed is why cube is the best format. Never needing more than one copy of a card does a lot to help the wallet, even for more powerful cubes. Which is definitely necessary, because you'll be chasing a lot of different high-profile cards, but it feels a lot easier to justify.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:45
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Literally The Worst posted:And Tabernacle is on the reserve list so bringing it up in a discussion about reprinting cards is real dumb because it's a thing they literally can't/won't reprint. If you want to argue about whether or not the reserve list is actually a good thing, that's fine, but acting like the price of Tabernacle is a consideration for most people is loving dumb, especially in a conversation that was discussing the prices of Modern singles. You asked: Literally The Worst posted:What world are you living in that goyf and bob are "medium money"? He showed a world where cards are expensive enough that Goyfs and Bobs are medium money. We don't need to argue about the reserve list for that to be true. Again, singles prices and reprint policies are not discussions that are limited to Modern alone, and trying to exclude other formats from being factors in WotC's decision making warps the discussion. That's all I'm saying here, there's no need to take it so personally and try to ninja-edit your past posts on us.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:47
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Literally The Worst posted:What world are you living in that goyf and bob are "medium money"? Hey, great user name/post combo.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:48
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:You asked: I edited exactly one post because I didn't like what I had written and I didn't realize it had been quoted yet, there's no need to be an idiot about it. Also the conversation was explicitly about Modern so excuse me for thinking that was what we would continue talking about.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:49
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kizudarake posted:Hey, great user name/post combo. Great argument about why Chronicles 2 would be a good idea for anybody except people who want cheap cards no matter how that would affect anybody but them. Really opened my eyes. Double posted because the awful app is poo poo for multi quoting. I apologize for this ninja edit in advance.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:51
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kizudarake posted:Hey, great user name/post combo. Dickeye works at a card shop. Kinda biased about cheap cards I guess. Apparently it'll fold if they can't sell their wizard rectangles at absurdly high prices and can't imagine a YGO business model.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:58
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Fox of Stone posted:Dickeye works at a card shop. Kinda biased about cheap cards I guess. Apparently it'll fold if they can't sell their wizard rectangles at absurdly high prices and can't imagine a YGO business model. This is an amazing representation of my argument in that it takes valid points and blows th out of proportion because you don't think they actually matter. Cratering prices would hurt a lot of small shops. The YGO model is a bad model. YGO gets away with it because it is part of a much larger franchise that includes an anime that's been on for like ten years. Konami gives zero fucks about stores and they're kind of poo poo for it.
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Feb 28, 2014 07:02
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This is an angry thread full of angry people. Here's a simple rules question to make everyone happy: 1. You have an Assemble the Legion out with X muster counters on it, Y Soldier tokens in play and a Legion's Initiative. You activate the initiative to exile your dudes. Do they come back? 2. Same as above, but instead of hitting Legion's Initiative you use, I don't know, Leonin Relic Warder to exile the Assemble the Legion for ~reasons~. When he dies and the Assemble comes back does it have its counters?
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Feb 28, 2014 07:03
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Alris posted:This is an angry thread full of angry people. I think no in both cases, removing a token from play erases it from existence, and when a card returns from exile it comes in as if it was just cast (in this case, with zero counters). Exiled cards returning to play do re-trigger ETB effects and "forget" anything that they did previously in that turn. So to take an example from an EDH deck I'm building, if I swing with an Aurelia and exile it at end of combat, if I swing with her on my bonus combat phase then I get another bonus combat (since Aurelia "forgets" that it already attacked this turn once it leaves play) I thought of a (kind of weird) rules question earlier too- I have Elesh Norn in play and my opponents has a bunch of 3/3 tokes (made 1/1s because of Norn). If I put a copy of Norn into play with something like Rite of Replication, do my opponents' 1/1s die before the legend rule gets rid of my cloned Norn? I think both are state-based effects, but if both occur at the same time can I pick in what order they get "noticed"? C-Euro fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 07:05
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I would like cards to be cheaper and understand this would hurt a lot of stores. They should just do it in Modo.
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Feb 28, 2014 07:05
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Alris posted:This is an angry thread full of angry people. No twice. Counters and tokens disappear when they leave play for any amount of time. Edit:  Fine. Except for Skullbriar, a card which you will only ever run into in Commander, and even then not very often, counters and tokens disappear when they leave play for any amount of time.  The way Tawnos's Coffin reads to me, those counters disappear then are recreated, so Doubling Season would actually double them (and based on the rules for counters I'm pretty sure this has to be true,) Phasing doesn't leave play, it just phases out, and yes, Skullbriar is the only real exception to some parts of this rule. Swagger Dagger posted:I would like cards to be cheaper and understand this would hurt a lot of stores. I really wish they had a thing that had every card available right away and you could playtest your IRL decks without prizes or cost or anything. I hate having to buy cards for a deck I don't know if I'll like, and proxying anything that's not like, a fetch or something, isn't worth the hassle to me. Speaking of buying cards for decks I don't like, to the guy asking about the mono-B with Herald of Torment and whatnot, maybe you'll have more luck than I did but man it just seems realllly bad. Like, it reliably lost to control, aggro, midrange, and janky homebrews - I never even felt like I had a chance. I can't find my list or I'd post it. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 07:05
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Swagger Dagger posted:I would like cards to be cheaper and understand this would hurt a lot of stores. Unironically agree about Modo.
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Feb 28, 2014 07:06
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Mikujin posted:Anyone have a link to the monoB list that was running Agents/Nighthowlers/Heralds kicking around? This is what I based mine off of: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3572508&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=65#post426004136 I added in an Underworld Cerberus because I love that card and I will try to play it all time, errday.
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Feb 28, 2014 07:09
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C-Euro posted:I thought of a (kind of weird) rules question earlier too- I have Elesh Norn in play and my opponents has a bunch of 3/3 tokes (made 1/1s because of Norn). If I put a copy of Norn into play with something like Rite of Replication, do my opponents' 1/1s die before the legend rule gets rid of my cloned Norn? I think both are state-based effects, but if both occur at the same time can I pick in what order they get "noticed"? Yes, this works. After Rite resolves, the game notices both that there are two Elesh Norns in play under your control and that there are a bunch of -1/-1s on the field. You pick one to put into your graveyard, and it hits the graveyard simultaneously with the tokens (which are then obliterated as another state-based effect).
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Feb 28, 2014 07:16
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suicidesteve posted:No twice. Counters and tokens disappear when they leave play for any amount of time.
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Feb 28, 2014 07:22
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Phasing isn't leaving the battlefield, I think you meant to link Skullbriar.
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Feb 28, 2014 07:23
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Mikujin posted:Anyone have a link to the monoB list that was running Agents/Nighthowlers/Heralds kicking around? I posted about it a few pages ago, both in this thread and in deck building. Edit: oh someone already posted a link to my post, cool!
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Feb 28, 2014 07:30
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Literally The Worst posted:Great argument about why Chronicles 2 would be a good idea for anybody except people who want cheap cards no matter how that would affect anybody but them. Really opened my eyes. Hey, I don't want fetches and the like to be 5 bucks each, but I'm sure your POS shop'd survive if there was enough supply out there to bring the price down to 30 bucks. If it couldn't, then you probably need to go ahead and cash out of the wizard poker game and get a job that pays the loving bills and a little extra for retirement. My local store has had one of a very few copies of Rolling Earthquake from Portal Three Kingdoms in the case and listed on TCGplayer. It is labeled at $199.99 American. It also hasn't sold in 2 months. Granted, it's legacy, not modern, but it's also not doing him any good, just sitting in the case. I'm pretty sure your shop would survive Modern Masters 2: featuring fetches if they printed it at a level equal to Theros, same MSRP and same number of packs per box. Anil Dikshit fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 07:48
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Call me cynical, but the prices of modern (and I mean "recent", but also in the sense of legal in Modern) cards seem to be based on this strange culture of fascination with high card value. We were all there for the great Legacy price spike, or at least the Modern one, and people are still trying to ride that high of "Whoa, look how much this card is worth now!" How many times have you been at FNM and heard someone excitedly tell someone else, "Snapcaster Mage is up to $50 now!"? They should know damned well that Snapcaster, or whatever card they're referencing, isn't that much money; that's the highest of the high retail price for the card, potentially even embellished a few dollars so they can enjoy the shocked look on the other person's face. I've actually gotten exhausted from arguments with people who refuse to believe that I can find cards $20 cheaper than they think, even when showing them current buy-it-now listings. A recent example, just last night, was when I was watching someone put cards into their binder and they were pumped to tell me how their Courser of Kruphix was up to $15. It's not $15, and never was. SCG had them at $12, but showing them evidence just had them shaking their head: "No, it's $15, I just checked last night." This is combined with people being upset they missed the boat on some high priced cards like fetchlands. It leads to hilarious price spikes in cards that appear as one-ofs in sideboards. As much as people moan about high card prices, they sure love talking about them. We just can't get enough, and all want to be in on the next Tarmogoyf.
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Feb 28, 2014 08:05
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kizudarake posted:Hey, I don't want fetches and the like to be 5 bucks each, but I'm sure your POS shop'd survive if there was enough supply out there to bring the price down to 30 bucks. Yeah that's the thing, store owners have a vested interest in keeping prices high, especially if they don't sell a lot of sealed product. Store owners everywhere tout the pitfalls of reprinting high value cards in simple self-interest. But everyone who isn't a store owner would benefit from increased availability of staples and allowing more players to participate, as well as giving more incentive to crack packs and draft. If you're investing in cardboard that isn't on the magic reserved list, you are making a bad "investment". People with Enron stock weren't refunded when the company collapsed just because they bought "right before it was worthless!" (reprinted). also karn is $40-50 without any GR tron decks posting good results  what is this world coming to
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Feb 28, 2014 08:33
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Mortimer posted:also karn is $40-50 without any GR tron decks posting good results Modern Season.
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Feb 28, 2014 08:54
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Count Bleck posted:Modern Season. STANDARD SEASON FIRE
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Feb 28, 2014 08:56
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I ran a Modern Masters draft about a month back and the most expensive card drawn was a Cryptic Command, followed by Aether Vial. There was much groaning (mostly from me because I got last place, I am bad at draft and systematically screwed up land content in my Goblins/Storm deck). I also don't generally trade with people for the exact reasons BJPaskoff mentions, because aside from a few cool dudes who won't split hairs over a buck or two and will totally trade your Mind Over Matter for a D Sphere and Supreme Verdict because SCG is sold, people won't shut the gently caress up about how valuable their bouncing baby Xenagod is worth and always use Star City because poo poo's always above the TCGPlayer average.
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Feb 28, 2014 08:58
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Just my 2 cents but wouldn't a larger playerbase improve store sales? Yea you're hurting on individual sales because no one is walking in and dropping $200+ at a time on whatever the Standard card of the month is, but the increased participation in events would allow stores to hold more of them. Heck, if you're getting more players in the store you could probably get away with charging more for price of admission to make up some of the hit. Plus instead of 7 or 8 guys spending $100, you'll have twice as many spending half as much, or potentially more since people would be able to afford to invest in more decks than normal. And there's the greater opportunity for growth with the increased interest. Of course all these numbers are made up and I'm sure someone can come in and correct me and my incorrect assumptions not based on reality (I primarily play MODO).Attorney at Funk posted:STANDARD SEASON FIRE This made me laugh way too hard for having my whole family asleep in the house.
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Feb 28, 2014 08:59
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Attorney at Funk posted:STANDARD SEASON FIRE This took me way too long. Well played.
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Feb 28, 2014 09:10
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Attorney at Funk posted:STANDARD SEASON FIRE  Also, I sort of wish they outright used MTGO as a testbed for market affects vs paper. It's not straight 1:1 obviously, but they've got a much more free hand to experiment. I'm reminded of the fact that Valve brought some economists on board to do research on Steam simply because the amount of data available / amount of variables you can control are absurd and probably amazing for developing some sort of idea (or hell, mathematical model) of the impact the kind of things people are constantly freaking out about reprint-wise.
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Feb 28, 2014 09:12
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Attorney at Funk posted:STANDARD SEASON FIRE  I hate you. I actually wanted to do something fancy with Damnnation as the gun but I don't have the patience, time, or effort.
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Feb 28, 2014 09:13
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Well, gonna be an interesting weekend. Heading to GP Melbourne tomorrow and it's the highest attendance ever for an Australian GP with over 900 so far. Not playing the main event, but it will be a crowded room. The same venue held the last gp in Melbourne and was kinda cramped with 550 odd players.
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Feb 28, 2014 09:20
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Attorney at Funk posted:STANDARD SEASON FIRE My wife is asleep right next to me. You almost made me wake her up. It would have been worth it.
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Feb 28, 2014 09:32
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I'm thinking of getting back to actually playing in Ducks block. Specifically, my plan is this: a) Go to FNM drafts (my store always does drafts for FNM) b) Get cards c) Sell good cards (online) to people who play Standard or trade those for stuff I want to play Would that be a good idea? I could do it now, but the current draft format is not exactly high-value.
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Feb 28, 2014 10:10
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Play limited for its own sake. If you just want cards to play constructed next block (???), then wait and buy them?
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Feb 28, 2014 10:14
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demons. posted:Play limited for its own sake. If you just want cards to play constructed next block (???), then wait and buy them? I don't want to play Standard, I'm more interested in Commander (and maybe Legacy/Modern, depending on prices). Not that I don't enjoy Limited, or that I'd be That Guy who just takes money cards, just that I don't play much as it is, and Ducks block is a good opportunity to get back in touch, while also a good avenue to help me get what I do want.
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Feb 28, 2014 10:23
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Literally The Worst posted:What world are you living in that goyf and bob are "medium money"? It's a world where there are cards which are orders of magnitude more expensive? This isn't very confusing. I also love how your first priority is always Hasbros bottom line. I want to play magic with cool cards at reasonable prices, not spend hundreds of dollars on a piece of cardboard.
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Feb 28, 2014 10:46
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Serperoth posted:I'm thinking of getting back to actually playing in Ducks block. Well, I always look at drafting like this: open 3 packs. Did you make your money back? Of course you didnt. Now spend an extra $7 for those packs and maybe get a few extra packs. Did you get your money back now? Probably not, but maybe you had fun drafting and got some new cards you can sell to recoup half of what you paid. Or maybe you pulled a value card and made your money back. I mean, I never actually have fun drafting, and only made my money back once, but maybe you will.
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Feb 28, 2014 10:47
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suicidesteve posted:Well, I always look at drafting like this: open 3 packs. Did you make your money back? Of course you didnt. Now spend an extra $7 for those packs and maybe get a few extra packs. Did you get your money back now? Probably not, but maybe you had fun drafting and got some new cards you can sell to recoup half of what you paid. Or maybe you pulled a value card and made your money back. I mean, I never actually have fun drafting, and only made my money back once, but maybe you will. Actually I think that price-wise, I'd lose about 3 euros (I think that the entry fee is 15euros, a pack is 4 euros each), and I get to play some Magic too. Could be worse. 
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Feb 28, 2014 10:49
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suicidesteve posted:Well, I always look at drafting like this: open 3 packs. Did you make your money back? Of course you didnt. Now spend an extra $7 for those packs and maybe get a few extra packs. Where the hell are you paying $2 a pack? Contrarywise, where the hell did you draft paying $18?
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Feb 28, 2014 10:57
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The person asking about Storm in Pauper, Fissure Storm is still a thing at least until Cloud of Faeries gets banned (which should have been banned instead of Post in the last update but here we are) The price of Cryptics is kind of funny to me considering the speed of Modern. Casting spells over 2 CMC is for suckers.
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Feb 28, 2014 11:17
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