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Sour Blossom posted:There's also the space-borne version in the Koronus Bestiary, and they fit those dimensions too. They really like to eat starships. Though if you spot them coming (which is really the hard part) they're easy as hell to kill as they aren't all that fast and only have short-ranged weapons.
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Feb 27, 2014 21:00
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In Tome of Blood they're implied to be the same things, with them magically farting off into space and dragging space ships back to the ocean to eat.
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Feb 27, 2014 22:20
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Do Space Marines still do the Rogue Trader gig? Either as detachments or as full Rogue Traders? Though, I imagine the latter would make the Inquisition throw a massive shitfit. Also, how did the Deathwatch maintain their garrisons while the Jericho Reach was cut off?
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Feb 28, 2014 00:03
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Rogue Traders might get themselves a Space Marine escort if they're going to settle the great (and dangerous) unknown, or they might join in if they're off on a crusade against some group that needs killing. I doubt they care about the money side of things though, they're largely ascetic warrior-monks. They generally just get given what they need unless they're out of favour with the administratum in general.
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Feb 28, 2014 00:11
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You're right, and I dig the ascetic warrior monk thing, but I've been wondering about all the effort involved in running and supplying a Chapter. The asceticism helps a bit, as does the hand-me-down gear, but ammo, food, spare parts, new vehicles, spaceships, etC, especially if it's a fleet-based Chapter. Like Ultramarines have Ultramar, an entire pocket kingdom, pumping out the all the gear and serfs the Chapter needs. A combination of performing your usual duties and trying to keep everything running seems like it's good for a story hook or two, especially if they conflict. Kind of like X-COM. "Canada has signed a treaty with the alien invaders!" I'm kind of brainstorming until I get the time and tools to run a game.
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Feb 28, 2014 00:33
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Rockopolis posted:Do Space Marines still do the Rogue Trader gig? Either as detachments or as full Rogue Traders? Though, I imagine the latter would make the Inquisition throw a massive shitfit.
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Feb 28, 2014 02:58
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As I understand it, apart from the obvious major crisis zones like Armageddon or a Black Crusade (where any sane chapter sends what it can to help) or specific targets/guarded areas a chapter was specifically dedicated to deal with, a chapter's deployment of its Space Marines is all about favors and debts of honor. If a Rogue Trader dynasty saved a chapter's recruiting worlds in the past or something similar, I can very much see a Space Marine chapter having a permanent detachment on board their vessels in thanks, especially if the Rogue Trader's charter encouraged/required them to do things Space Marines are in favor of (destroying xeno threats or the like). Hell, if we go by GW's own example, the Imperial Fists would be willing to dump an entire company just to (badly) protect one relic  , so a squad of Marines or similar on a Rogue Trader is nothing in comparison. It's probably much easier to have a temporary detachment arranged than a permanent one, but in general Rogue Traders are really, really powerful in their own bailiwick. Being able to assist a Space Marine force enough for them to owe you one is quite within their reach to accomplish. There should be some significant politics around it though; Space Marines do NOT take orders from outside their chapter as a rule, they take requests. Of course, Rogue Trader charters are apparently often assigned with specific tasks as part of them, so it may be more a factor of a Rogue Trader being at the disposal of the Space Marines as opposed to vice versa.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:56
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Playing as the guys who actually have to manage supplying a bunch of psychopath warrior monks who don't really get that bolt shells are expensive and hard to acquire in genocidal quantities or realize quite how many serfs and support staff their war machine requires? Then trying to carefully manipulate them and the favors you do for them into killing or glaring disapprovingly at people you don't like? Sounds like an RT game.
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Feb 28, 2014 06:58
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I'm running a DW game but haven't run DH before. Looking to stat up a new Interrogator that used to be an Arbites Mortiurge to escort the party for a mission. I'm thinking just slamming out 45 in most stats and then 55 in the important ones and 65 BS, throwing together a couple of talents and then presuming +30 to BS checks from gear and talents. Is there anything else relevant I'm missing that'd be relevant?
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Feb 28, 2014 07:14
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Night10194 posted:Playing as the guys who actually have to manage supplying a bunch of psychopath warrior monks who don't really get that bolt shells are expensive and hard to acquire in genocidal quantities or realize quite how many serfs and support staff their war machine requires? Then trying to carefully manipulate them and the favors you do for them into killing or glaring disapprovingly at people you don't like? Especially as the RT's grand plan to turn profit on it backfires as the marines, particularly Space Wolves, begin eating him out of ship and home and randomly wrecking things out of boredom/training. "I am the seneshal and I must scream."
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Feb 28, 2014 10:12
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Void krakens are a big paper tiger. It only has a 11.25% chance to hit with the grapple and if that fails, anything that isn't a Universe can just outrun it or simply obliterate it in one or two volleys because the Kraken has poo poo for defenses, it's lack of a voidshield means a single lance hit will take off between 10% and 28% of it's total health. A voidmaster with 60 BS(very reasonable rank 2) shooting both batteries of a Wolfpack Raider will, on a BS roll of 50, do 28 damage assuming exactly average damage rolls thanks to the short range bonuses or instagib it if he rolls more than 55 total on his 6d10 damage dice.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:10
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Space Marine detatchments are basically an "I Win" button for Rogue Traders, so they probably should come with some disadvantages, just not as bad as "Marines Malevolent!"  Subtract 1d10-5 PF, to a minimum of one, from any Venture in which they are deployed, as they destroy everything in sight and then spit acid on the wreckage. When used to defend a Colonial Venture, reduce all stats to 1 and destroy 1d10-5, minimum one, improvements. When not deployed, roll a Difficult (-10) Profit Factor test. On a success, they deploy anyway. Marines Malevolent may not be discarded. Alternatively, Space Marine "detachments" are how poorer Chapters travel and get supplies. When they need to get somewhere they lean on a Rogue Trader or two to get them there. Like a larger version of Deathwatch's Kill-Marines hitching rides or straight up commandeering ships. Or maybe it's like hosting the Olympics; highly prestigious, but ruinously expensive. A game following a broke Space Marine Chapter might be interesting, if I don't want to go full renagade. The Stellar Ronin Chapter? I saw Shaq on Jimmy Fallon the other night. Shaq looks like a Space Marine compared to Fallon.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:46
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You could really play up the wastefulness. Have them throw their escort ships into the middle of insane firefights in order to get the best drop-pod launching angle, think rhinos are a completely disposable and infinitely renewable resource, teach the new recruits about how to handle an overloading plasma weapon by deliberately exploding a few dozen master-crafted weapons. Every time a techmarine wants to go to to a Forge World he requisitions a cruiser and its escorts to take him there "to show the correct respect", and every time they move any of their gear around they refuse to allow any other cargo in the holds so that it doesn't get tainted. Yes, they will annihilate anything you point them at, but holy gently caress there's a reason a thousand of them need multiple planets to keep them running.
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Feb 28, 2014 17:01
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There's a reason a Veteran Guard squad with several heavy weapons and some hilarious OW talent builds are better than a space marine 99% of the time (in both cost-efficiency and also sheer damage output, only survivability and mobility are the two areas where the marine is uncontestedly superior.
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Feb 28, 2014 18:15
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"How do you explode a Master-Crafted Plasma gun? They can't even Overheat!" They insist on using live ammo during firing drills. Sure, it's identical ballistics, but they're firing thousands of relics daily to blow up target Servitors, which are...yeah. I've joked about the Ultramarines special ability being White Privilege, but I wonder about what plans they have/had for the Imperium at large. I mean, Roboute apparently had that whole Imperium Secundus thing, did a 180, and still ended up in charge. There's got to be some shadowy cabal of Ultramarines that want to go back to calling the shots.  I've been trying to figure out the most effective use of commands as an Ultramarines Tactical Marine Squad Leader (with Tactical Expertise). I start with 15 Cohesion, can Rally Cry 7 back into my squad, and Ultramarines orders get a one point discount. Lead By Example gives +14 to everyone for everything and a one reroll for the team every turn, and Ultramarines Squad Leaders can pump out stupid amounts of orders. What else is a must have? Though, I think I have enough Cohesion just to turn on all the sustained commands and fire off the rest every battle. I'm beginning to think that the Ultramarines deep dark secret is that they know there's a Metal Gear Solid style command and control system implanted in Marines along with their hypno training. They know how to use this to synchronize Marines and give orders that have physiological effects. And that's why 'Codex-compliant' is such a big deal for them. The Blood Angels are vampires, the Space Wolves are werewolves/disgusting furries, the Dark Angels have the Unforgiven, and the Ultramarines have the Sons of the Primarchs system. Or, if it's mildly psychic in nature, which would explain their losses against the Tyranids, Synapse Marines   Playing Deathwatch like a Metal Gear Solid boss is going to be so fun. I am going to have to take a Demeanor-based nickname and ham it up!"I am the Pride." Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 18:25
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I just imagine them in a training session, with a Sergeant walking down the line of recruits and snatching a priceless plasma-gun from one of them. "If you are denied your weapon and have to pick up a gun in the field, it will not be up to our standards. Imagine a fine weapon like this one, only this part *SNAP* and this part *SNAP* are missing. Here, now you break off the shot limiter and fire it at that target as quickly as possible. When it starts to glow red hot, throw it over there."
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Feb 28, 2014 19:01
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They do mention over and over that the average marine has no conception of monetary value or even really the idea that they might not have their wargear, etc. So much effort goes to keep them fully supplied and fighting at full strength, and they barely notice.
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Feb 28, 2014 19:20
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Bored space marines have the destructive imagination of a ten year old boy coupled with the power to make their idea a reality.
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Feb 28, 2014 19:24
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They should firmly believe the propaganda that all Imperial citizens are lovingly looked after, and if a space marine has to throw their car at a foul xeno it will be swiftly replaced as soon as they submit the necessary paperwork. I kind of want to play a game now that puts a bunch of Marines into a fairly normal city and has them as idiotic superheroes. Kind of like The Tick with automatic weapons. goatface fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 19:26
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Yeah, the book mechanicum goes into detail on the logistics of supplying space marines during the heresy, when the civil war finally starts on mars, the marines show up just long enough to remove the armor and weapons from the last remaining loyalist forge on mars and promptly gently caress off, saying their mission was to get the gear and not rescue anyone. So really, I think the marines have a much better grasp on logistics than you guys think. That doesn't mean they don't use ammo like it was infinite, but they take their supplies seriously.
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Feb 28, 2014 23:00
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I'm not entirely sure how that example proves they actually comprehend their own war machines that well. I suspect some of the seeming frivolity of Marines with their equipment is mostly that, when you're running an operation on the scale of the Imperium, you really can afford to supply the gently caress out of the approximately 1,000,000 best special forces troopers you have, especially when it takes way longer to train and grow a Marine than to build pretty much any of their gear.
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Feb 28, 2014 23:09
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For those interested in a renegade (but not chaotic) chapter being forced to confront supply concerns, the Soul Drinker books have a good bit of that. They basically go rogue, have to commandeer a space hulk as their new headquarters, and go,"fuuuuuuck where are we gonna get replacement parts and ammunition?"
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Feb 28, 2014 23:38
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We were rolling up Chapters and PCs for a Deathwatch game idea I had and I swear we pretty much rolled the HapsburgMarines. Ultramarine Successors with multiple genetic instabilities, a unique organization shunned by their parent chapter, their greatest hero being their Chief Apothecary, who was gunned down by a Vindicare assassin...and their best buds being the Officio Assassinorum. What the everloving gently caress did my dice do? E: Oh God we rolled the name The Brothers Sons. After realizing that was too ridiculous, they are instead the OMEGA VENGEANCE. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 03:36
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Pharmaskittle posted:For those interested in a renegade (but not chaotic) chapter being forced to confront supply concerns, the Soul Drinker books have a good bit of that. They basically go rogue, have to commandeer a space hulk as their new headquarters, and go,"fuuuuuuck where are we gonna get replacement parts and ammunition?" It doesn't touch that much on supply concerns, but it does have some interesting questions on the subject of marine creation: For instance, they get into a fight about whether to include hypno-indoctrination about the Emperor and Imperium in new recruits if memory serves me right.
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Mar 1, 2014 11:53
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Night10194 posted:
That sounds like something straight out of Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon. I approve heartily!
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Mar 1, 2014 13:29
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Pharmaskittle posted:For those interested in a renegade (but not chaotic) chapter being forced to confront supply concerns, the Soul Drinker books have a good bit of that. They basically go rogue, have to commandeer a space hulk as their new headquarters, and go,"fuuuuuuck where are we gonna get replacement parts and ammunition?" Whoopsie. Guess its time to switch to lasguns and flak armor.
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Mar 1, 2014 14:02
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Wouldn't that be ripper guns?
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Mar 1, 2014 14:17
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Ronwayne posted:Whoopsie. Guess its time to switch to lasguns and flak armor. They'd be far more effective throwing rocks.
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Mar 1, 2014 16:07
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They can just switch to being D&D warrior monks.
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Mar 1, 2014 16:08
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Has anyone had any experience with these RT creation and advancement rules that update it to use the OW aptitude system? https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5IhPBoHK3FAbWhiMmZFdG1mdnM I'm starting a new game and they look decent enough at first glance.
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Mar 1, 2014 16:21
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They can't be any worse than the original advancement system in RT.
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Mar 1, 2014 18:55
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Tias posted:It doesn't touch that much on supply concerns, but it does have some interesting questions on the subject of marine creation: For instance, they get into a fight about whether to include hypno-indoctrination about the Emperor and Imperium in new recruits if memory serves me right. Eh, unless you were banished for tech-heresy, would a Forge World really give a crap what the Inquisition thinks? If they do, just find some archeotech to give them and you're back in with the boys in red.
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Mar 1, 2014 19:21
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Hodgepodge posted:Eh, unless you were banished for tech-heresy, would a Forge World really give a crap what the Inquisition thinks? If they do, just find some archeotech to give them and you're back in with the boys in red. If I recall correctly, part of their going renegade involved an altercation with some AdMech guys.
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Mar 1, 2014 22:18
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Rockopolis posted:Also, how did the Deathwatch maintain their garrisons while the Jericho Reach was cut off? What I can gather from the sourcebooks is that since the Jericho Reach was populated by humans as recently as 4 thousand years ago in the 40k timeline, not only were the garrisons sufficiently advanced (one of the watch stations is sufficiently automated enough to maintain and defend itself even with only one Battle-brother present), but the Deathwatch has been there the entire time maintaining the watch. The Long Watch, as it were.
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Mar 2, 2014 03:02
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Yeah, but how do they replace that one Battle Brother? There serfs I can see being generational, like actual serfs tied to the land, but the Marine is harder to replace. Unless they have Apothecaries there too, and make Blackshields. Or the Marine pops into a stasis field while nothing's happening. There's no Chapters based in the Jericho Reach, right? Or for that matter, the Koronus Expanse/Calixis Sector/Spinward Hmm, I just thought of a kind of counter-intuitive use for a totally space-based Chapter. Park them in a sector where you need something guarded for a long time, but aren't establishing a permanent installation or founding a new Chapter? I was going to suggest, like, plopping down a Space Marine HQ in the Iron Collar to assist with the Achilus Crusade, but I bet Universe classes can't fit through the Gate.  Maybe they can take the long way around.
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Mar 2, 2014 03:47
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I thought the Long Watch was literally that, the marines just watching and not acting, waiting for the Imperial forces to arrive one day so they can resume with the rear end-kicking in the name of the Emprah
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Mar 2, 2014 03:53
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I believe the Storm Wardens are based in Calixis. The poor bastards. Awfully boring place.
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Mar 2, 2014 08:29
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They are? Kinda weird that they aren't present in the Spinward Front, considering the massive Ork Waaagh! that is stampeding full speed towards the Sector  Maybe they're focusing all their efforts in the grimdark shenanigans at the Jericho Reach?
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Mar 2, 2014 17:25
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I think it's mostly because the Spinward Front is officially the Imperial Guard Hour starring the Imperial Guard.
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Mar 2, 2014 17:32
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Night10194 posted:I think it's mostly because the Spinward Front is officially the Imperial Guard Hour starring the Imperial Guard. Honestly, for a proper WAAAGH!, you want the guard. The Space Marines simply don't have the numbers to combat the greenskin hordes, and indeed they're doctrine of battle isn't designed for that sort of fight anyway - they're surgical strike machines, not "grind you into foul-smelling-paste-through-sheer-manpower-and-stubbornness" that it usually takes to kill a WAAAGH and that the Guard is exceptionally good at.
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Mar 2, 2014 17:36
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