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Personally I was disappointed that this show's version of Solomon Grundy was not an immortal zombie (at least not yet...).
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Mar 1, 2014 22:02
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Regy Rusty posted:Personally I was disappointed that this show's version of Solomon Grundy was not an immortal zombie (at least not yet...). Well, Ollie did kill Cyrus Gold (probably)...
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Mar 1, 2014 22:04
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Wow that black guy takes a lot of steroids a lot! edit: Digger
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Mar 1, 2014 22:40
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VDay posted:
He says that because he knows Ollie's a big fuckin' crybaby about "boo abloo abloobloo I'ma gone done killed someone 'gin, I reckon   " and so he's trying to absolve Ollie of the guilt by being all  "You're who you are now, not what you were a few months ago."
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Mar 1, 2014 23:29
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I think the people who are worried about powers popping up everywhere are justifiably worried, because the quality of shows with superpowers is pretty uniform (in that almost all of them are shithouse), and there have be so terribly many of them. Superhero shows without powers (like Arrow so far; and don't give the "bu.. but... mirukuru" line, enhanced strength is clearly different to super speed, teleportation, laser beams out of eyes etc etc) on the other hand are exceedingly rare. So many people might conclude that one reason Arrow has been so good so far is that it hasn't gone to the superpowers rabbithole, and has been pretty unique. Once it starts introducing powers, a lot of that uniqueness may disappear. It's certainly possible it'll be done well, but it's also possible that it'll remove a lot of what makes the show so good. So I, like others, would have preferred the show stay non-superpowered. Unfortunately, CW wanting to make a buck out of Arrow's success via creating a spin-off has unfortunately made that impossible.
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Mar 2, 2014 00:51
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Correlation not causation.
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Mar 2, 2014 00:57
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Does Lance even realize his daughter is Black Canary? I know he knows about the assassin stuff, but people on these kinds of shows can be pretty stupid sometimes.Shakugan posted:enhanced strength is clearly different to super speed, teleportation, laser beams out of eyes etc etc) Yes, for many obvious reasons such as
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Mar 2, 2014 00:57
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I think it really depends on how powers are introduced and meshing them to the tone of the show in a slow, steady fashion. Of course it would feel weird if in the next episode Ollie took on a guy who can turn stuff to ice or whatever. But if the world was taken forward one step at a time then I think it will be fine. Cause the mirakuru super-strength is the first step on that path and the majority of people have accepted it just fine and most people think the show is as good as it's ever been even with super-strength. Also, the writers haven't put a major foot wrong so far, so I think worrying about what could happen is silly instead of just enjoying what is happening.
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Mar 2, 2014 01:00
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Shakugan posted:I think the people who are worried about powers popping up everywhere are justifiably worried, because the quality of shows with superpowers is pretty uniform (in that almost all of them are shithouse), and there have be so terribly many of them. Superhero shows without powers (like Arrow so far; and don't give the "bu.. but... mirukuru" line, enhanced strength is clearly different to super speed, teleportation, laser beams out of eyes etc etc) on the other hand are exceedingly rare. So many people might conclude that one reason Arrow has been so good so far is that it hasn't gone to the superpowers rabbithole, and has been pretty unique. Once it starts introducing powers, a lot of that uniqueness may disappear. "Enhanced" actually is putting it lightly, dude. Roy tore a door off a car effortlessly, Gold was basically impervious to arrows (because while they could pierce the skin, the muscle would prevent them from getting too deep), and even if he could be impaled he'd almost certainly fully heal within a day. That's loving super-powers. You're right that it's not quite teleportation or laser beams, but super speed? As long as it's not going full speed force, that poo poo's on the same level. It's been done well so far, and I trust that it will continue to do well. The quality of the show isn't because it doesn't have superpowers, it's because the writing is good and the action choreography is excellent.
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Mar 2, 2014 01:01
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HitTheTargets posted:Yes, for many obvious reasons such as Basically, the extent of Mirakuru on a narrative level so far has been "+1 challenge rating in fight sequences." The main problems caused by superpowers is that when you ratchet up the scale, it becomes more and more difficult to write conflicts that are coherent and suspenseful yet still mesh well with relatable down-to-earth character-driven stories.
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Mar 2, 2014 01:11
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HitTheTargets posted:Does Lance even realize his daughter is Black Canary? I know he knows about the assassin stuff, but people on these kinds of shows can be pretty stupid sometimes. Super strength is easier to make look decent on a tv show budget compared to a lot of super powers. That's the only thing I could think of.
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Mar 2, 2014 01:11
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Teleportation can be done pretty well, and if it's short range enough it woudn't be a game-breaker.
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Mar 2, 2014 01:20
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People bitching about superpowers in a show with a loving earthquake machine: The best people.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:57
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boom boom boom posted:Teleportation can be done pretty well, and if it's short range enough it woudn't be a game-breaker. I've always thought Dishonored-style teleportation would make for a good superhero-- unspammable, limited range, and only works with direct line-of-sight. You'd have to be smart to use it effectively. For example, you could teleport straight inside any room with windows, but not a bank vault or other sealed space. You could use it to quickly close in on enemies or escape from danger, but not both in succession-- you've got to recharge first. I love powers like that, ones that require a little creativity to get the most out of. When you get right down to it, that's basically what Ollie's archery skill is; a low-level superpower. It provides an obvious advantage, but it's very situational and he's got to work to make it work in different scenarios.
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Mar 2, 2014 03:54
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Boogaleeboo posted:People bitching about superpowers in a show with a loving earthquake machine: The best people. People who can't see the difference between an earthquake machine and someone who could, say, use psychic powers to spontaneously cause earthquakes: the best people.
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Mar 2, 2014 04:20
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Shakugan posted:People who can't see the difference between an earthquake machine and someone who could, say, use psychic powers to spontaneously cause earthquakes: the best people. Who has psychic powers that causes earthquakes on Arrow?
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Mar 2, 2014 05:23
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The scientists that developed the earthquake machine used their mental super powers to develop it obviously. It's too bad Merlyn killed them off because they were a threat to him.
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Mar 2, 2014 05:51
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HitTheTargets posted:Does Lance even realize his daughter is Black Canary? I know he knows about the assassin stuff, but people on these kinds of shows can be pretty stupid sometimes. I thought it was clear he knows who she is, her lines about superhero club and her girlfriend.
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Mar 2, 2014 06:04
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Shakugan posted:People who can't see the difference between an earthquake machine and someone who could, say, use psychic powers to spontaneously cause earthquakes There isn't one except to the pedantic. "No see, this totally impossible thing is much better because we tie it to a a funny box with blinking lights rather than a person. That makes it scientific.". It's not like they make a real effort to explain how the earthquake machine really works, and you know why? Because it would be stupid. A concept that doesn't work in reality shouldn't have a single moment more devoted to trying to fake a technical explanation for why it works than is absolutely required to tell a consistent narrative. Earthquake machines that pinpoint specific sections of a city without touching the other parts are even *more* ridiculous than just "machine that makes an earthquake" too. The best thing the story could do is what it ended up doing, which is having everyone accept the premise and move on. Don't spend 5 minutes trying to explain how they technobabble that widget into working, spend those 5 minutes showing what the machine means to the people threatened by it. You know what would be realistic? They take the what would have to be hundreds of millions at least to develop a working earthquake machine and just make a really big fuel air bomb or four. Relatively cheap [You know, in comparison to multiple earthquake machines], highly effective, just as horrific, done. But it's not that type of show and never has been, so it's an earthquake machine. And the second you saw it was an earthquake machine you should have known what you were in for with everything to come. And it was fine, because that earthquake machine was devastating. Not physically, although it was that too, emotionally. It wrecked the characters, it had weight on them and the story. That made it 'real', that made it matter. It helps that Malcolm was totally insane in a very, very focused way. Of course he'd make something so extreme to kill the part of the city that harmed him. His rage was apocalyptic, and it needed a suitable vehicle to deliver itself on the Glades. And that is true of their Miraclo stand in too. Grundy tearing through people, Slade losing his poo poo, Ollie trying to get through to Roy, that gives it weight. It doesn't matter how ridiculous the concept of a Japanese genetic serum from WWII is, they ignore the ridiculous parts and focus on the human cost and impact. Any concept can be grounded if given the right emotional weight and force on the characters. Same for the Flash. "Grounding" a show doesn't have anything to do with power levels or explanations of why the crazy poo poo is happening, and it has everything to do with how the people in the setting deal with it. So yeah, people that complain about dudes that run really really fast in a show with assassination earthquake machines are wildly missing the point as far as I'm concerned, and I'm going to laugh at that.
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Mar 2, 2014 06:32
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The biggest crime of all is that no one gif'd the arm-grab-handshake between Slade and Ollie yet. 
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Mar 2, 2014 06:36
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I think there's a point to be made for the tonal dissonance that would occur if you start to pit Oliver against things like alien invasions and mythological beasts. Even in the comics, they try to maintain some sort of genre balance and even the characters themselves start to get ornery when they have to deal with things too far out of...well, out of their their comfort zone. That said, there's definitely a happy medium to be found where Arrow wouldn't feel that out of place next to the "Batman" sort of superpowered villains like Killer Croc or Clayface or even Poison Ivy. I think people have this impression where "introduce superpowers" somehow necessarily means "everyone farts lightning" or "Kryptonite monsters err'day of the week" and that doesn't need to be the case. Ultimately, the character is a DC Comics character, and this show has made an entire show out of defying everyone's expectations. Personally, I'm not concerned at all.
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Mar 2, 2014 06:59
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I don't think Hollywood/television is ready to try and portray in a healthy light any supervillainess. It'll go straight to sex, sexxing it up, being sexy and she'll still be as one dimensional as anything.
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Mar 2, 2014 07:49
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Drifter posted:I don't think Hollywood/television is ready to try and portray in a healthy light any supervillainess. It'll go straight to sex, sexxing it up, being sexy and she'll still be as one dimensional as anything. Nyssa was pretty kickass though.
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Mar 2, 2014 08:03
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Nyssa was pretty kickass though. Was she? She wasn't actively bad, I wouldn't heap copious amounts of praise on her. I realize there's only so much you can do in a very limited time, however. Her character arc was basically spurned girlfriend takes revenge. Meh. It would be nice to see her more to broaden that characterization; from what you guys say that actress is pretty good. Drifter fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Mar 2, 2014 |
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Mar 2, 2014 08:10
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HitTheTargets posted:Does Lance even realize his daughter is Black Canary? I know he knows about the assassin stuff, but people on these kinds of shows can be pretty stupid sometimes.
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Mar 2, 2014 18:44
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Nyssa was pretty kickass though. Her outfit was awesome, unlike the terrible one Sarah has.
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Mar 2, 2014 18:57
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Her outfit was awesome, unlike the terrible one Sarah has. How loving dare you insult the cleavage suit! 
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Mar 2, 2014 20:54
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Given what they had to work with, it really could be a lot worse.
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Mar 2, 2014 21:00
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It's a tactical vest to distract her male opponents before knocking them out. Works with girls as well!
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Mar 2, 2014 23:30
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Tactical anti boob sweat top.
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Mar 2, 2014 23:51
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I love that they kept the wig from the comics. Even Smallville switched it up so that she had short hair in costume and the wig was part of her civilian cover. Get hosed, realism.
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Mar 3, 2014 00:20
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I've never seen the Smallville version of Black Canary. How exactly did they explain...well, her?
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Mar 3, 2014 01:07
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BrianWilly posted:I've never seen the Smallville version of Black Canary. How exactly did they explain...well, her? Smallville just had metahumans, so they didn't bother to explain that. She was working as a mercenary (for Lex. She was a bad guy in her introduction) before she joins the Totally Not The Justice League.
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Mar 3, 2014 01:12
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Ah, I forget myself. If you don't know the origin of the original Black Canary, she was an ordinary woman who knew some judo or whatever. Not even world-class stuff, just enough to bust some punks. When the character was brought back after the genre died out and came back, she graduated to expert fighter and also had a "Canary Cry" power for no good reason. They tried waving their hands around and making a good reason appear, but trust me, it didn't work. So she joined the Justice League and only then started dating Ollie. Neither she nor Ollie had the slightest connection to Nanda Parbat or the League of Assassins until the mid-2000s. You know, after the Kevin Smith run.
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Mar 3, 2014 01:36
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HitTheTargets posted:Ah, I forget myself. If you don't know the origin of the original Black Canary, she was an ordinary woman who knew some judo or whatever. Not even world-class stuff, just enough to bust some punks. When the character was brought back after the genre died out and came back, she graduated to expert fighter and also had a "Canary Cry" power for no good reason. The retcon was of course that the newer, better Canary was the original's daughter. At some point they put the mother's consciousness in the daughter's body too, or something. Crisis on Infinite Earths made it much neater. Then New 52 changed it again.
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Mar 3, 2014 01:57
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Naw man, it was always the mother. Comicbook Laurel was put into a medical coma as a baby, then switched minds with her mother decades later, then promptly died of radiation poisoning because, duh, that's why mom needed to switch brains with someone. Then Superman himself wipes Dinah's memory of this because of course he does. I poo poo you not, the root of all this mess is that a wizard did it.
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Mar 3, 2014 02:21
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I apologize in advance -  I don't exactly love Arrow's Canary look, but Caity Lotz is such great casting that I could care less about the costume.
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Mar 3, 2014 03:30
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She's not Black Canary anyway, so they get another go at it.
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Mar 3, 2014 03:31
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Aphrodite posted:She's not Black Canary anyway, so they get another go at it. But Oliver isn't Green Arrow by the same logic.
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Mar 3, 2014 04:00
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I hope there is no Black Canary cause Caity is awesome.
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Mar 3, 2014 04:02
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